Indeependent
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From Arab web sites.
Yep!
Netanyahu causes uproar by linking Palestinians to Holocaust
- Thread starter Coyote
- Start date
Yep!
They do when the muslims take over, and then the new Jews will be the eastern European states defending against Islamic invaders.
aris2chat
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Mufti was convicted and escaped "dressed as a woman". He would have been sentenced to dead.
He was no innocent.
aris2chat
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Apparently any historian when any kinds of ties with jews are incapable of publishing any of their research or taken seriously.
???????
aris2chat
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Since the fall of the nazis is not revisionism. Not including the Mufti because of Palestinian sensibilities is.
Mufti's own words call for the death of all jews, He wanted to build a crematorium for all the jews in the middle east and Africa, but that revisionism too?
They are in Arabic, but go to the library and get copies of his broadcasts.
- Thread starter
- #547
No one is not including the mufti.
That's not the argument being made. Netanyahu's words were false and the intent behind why he made those statements at that particular time, using
"revisionism" to portray modern day Palestinians as akin to Nazi's is the issue and it keeps being ducked. No one is white washing the Mufti - but let's be accurate about history and call Netanyahu's deciet for what it is. If you want to call all those historians liars and revisionists - do so.
Again - for I don't know how many times - no one is saying the Mufti didn't want the destruction of the Jews. That is not the argument.
- Thread starter
- #548
Most of the historians I quoted or were quoted in the articles I used as sources were themselves Jews. DID YOU MISS THAT PART?
- Thread starter
- #549
Did anyone say he was?
aris2chat
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>>
Lost in the discussion about how much the Mufti influenced Hitler is the inescapable fact that the Mufti and the Führer shared the same goal, the destruction of the Jews.
Hitler and Nazi Party philosopher Alfred Rosenberg were focused on eliminating the Jews of Europe. Haj Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was focused on eliminating the Jews of the Arab world.
How much the Mufti had to do with Hitler’s Final Solution of the Jewish Question is unfortunately a diversion from the basic issue. The Mufti then, like Palestinians today, sought to slaughter Jews.
The Mufti arrived in Berlin as a personal guest of the Führer after he had precipitated the infamous pogrom against the Jews of Iraq known as the Farhud, Arabic for violent uprising or dispossession. The Mufti came to Berlin with Jewish blood on his hands, a fact barely mentioned in the discussion of the Mufti’s role in the Holocaust. Moreover, the Mufti recruited 20,000 Bosnian Muslims for the SS, the Schutzstaffel, the group that was implementing Hitler’s Final Solution.
The Farhud was the Arab Kristallnacht, and it remains, to this day, the forgotten pogrom despite the incredible and detailed research of historian Edwin Black. The Farhud was the outcome of a fusion of Arab nationalism with Nazism as cultivated by Nazi propaganda disseminated via broadcasts in Arabic from Berlin. Anyone who thinks that the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic propaganda of the modern mainstream media with their continued mistakes and routine apologies for bias is harmless has no sense of history.
The Nazis were able to convince Iraqi Arab leaders that the Jews controlled both the British and the godless Soviet Union. When it came to the Jews, the Nazis were able to accuse them of everything and anything, and get people to believe them.
The affinity of the Arabs for a strong leader and a monolithic hierarchical movement also helped in the appeal of Nazism as did financial and other resources from Baghdad’s German Embassy. Hitler wanted the oil. The Arabs wanted the British out, and for those inclined to follow the Nazi example, they wanted to vent their hatred toward the Jews, who had lived peacefully among them for 2,600 years.
The Arab-Nazi movement in Iraq launched an uprising against the British, which was defeated. The British regent was returned on the first day of the Jewish holiday of Shavouth, June 1, 1941. The defeated Arab-Nazis, a movement that comprised diverse components including one that was modeled on the Hitler Youth, took their frustrations out on the Jews. The Farhud, which lasted two days, could have easily served as model for ISIS, with people slaughtered in front of their families, women and girls repeatedly raped, and then having their breasts slashed off. The death toll estimates vary, but it is generally thought that over 600 Jews were killed in two days.
The Mufti was one of the most prominent leaders in the Nazi movement in Iraq and responsible for the Farhud. For the Mufti, the Farhud was the harbinger of the larger goal for which he sought Hitler’s help, the destruction of the Jews of the Middle East.
The one uplifting and hidden story in accounts of the Farhud is the extent to which ordinary Arabs helped their Jewish neighbors escape death at risk of their own lives. It was a time when many Muslims had not been impregnated with the anti-Semitism of Europe and the fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran.
The most important aspect of the controversy surrounding Netanyahu’s statements is that then as now, the Nazi vision of a Europe free of Jews was shared by the leader of Palestinian nationalism, who sought a Middle East free of Jews, and was as willing as was Hitler to accomplish that through mass murder. When it came to Palestinians finding their salvation in the slaughter of Jews, Netanyahu is at least correct about there being ample precedent.<<
Abraham H. Miller
Lost in the discussion about how much the Mufti influenced Hitler is the inescapable fact that the Mufti and the Führer shared the same goal, the destruction of the Jews.
Hitler and Nazi Party philosopher Alfred Rosenberg were focused on eliminating the Jews of Europe. Haj Amin al Husseini, the Grand Mufti, was focused on eliminating the Jews of the Arab world.
How much the Mufti had to do with Hitler’s Final Solution of the Jewish Question is unfortunately a diversion from the basic issue. The Mufti then, like Palestinians today, sought to slaughter Jews.
The Mufti arrived in Berlin as a personal guest of the Führer after he had precipitated the infamous pogrom against the Jews of Iraq known as the Farhud, Arabic for violent uprising or dispossession. The Mufti came to Berlin with Jewish blood on his hands, a fact barely mentioned in the discussion of the Mufti’s role in the Holocaust. Moreover, the Mufti recruited 20,000 Bosnian Muslims for the SS, the Schutzstaffel, the group that was implementing Hitler’s Final Solution.
The Farhud was the Arab Kristallnacht, and it remains, to this day, the forgotten pogrom despite the incredible and detailed research of historian Edwin Black. The Farhud was the outcome of a fusion of Arab nationalism with Nazism as cultivated by Nazi propaganda disseminated via broadcasts in Arabic from Berlin. Anyone who thinks that the anti-Israel, anti-Semitic propaganda of the modern mainstream media with their continued mistakes and routine apologies for bias is harmless has no sense of history.
The Nazis were able to convince Iraqi Arab leaders that the Jews controlled both the British and the godless Soviet Union. When it came to the Jews, the Nazis were able to accuse them of everything and anything, and get people to believe them.
The affinity of the Arabs for a strong leader and a monolithic hierarchical movement also helped in the appeal of Nazism as did financial and other resources from Baghdad’s German Embassy. Hitler wanted the oil. The Arabs wanted the British out, and for those inclined to follow the Nazi example, they wanted to vent their hatred toward the Jews, who had lived peacefully among them for 2,600 years.
The Arab-Nazi movement in Iraq launched an uprising against the British, which was defeated. The British regent was returned on the first day of the Jewish holiday of Shavouth, June 1, 1941. The defeated Arab-Nazis, a movement that comprised diverse components including one that was modeled on the Hitler Youth, took their frustrations out on the Jews. The Farhud, which lasted two days, could have easily served as model for ISIS, with people slaughtered in front of their families, women and girls repeatedly raped, and then having their breasts slashed off. The death toll estimates vary, but it is generally thought that over 600 Jews were killed in two days.
The Mufti was one of the most prominent leaders in the Nazi movement in Iraq and responsible for the Farhud. For the Mufti, the Farhud was the harbinger of the larger goal for which he sought Hitler’s help, the destruction of the Jews of the Middle East.
The one uplifting and hidden story in accounts of the Farhud is the extent to which ordinary Arabs helped their Jewish neighbors escape death at risk of their own lives. It was a time when many Muslims had not been impregnated with the anti-Semitism of Europe and the fundamentalist interpretation of the Koran.
The most important aspect of the controversy surrounding Netanyahu’s statements is that then as now, the Nazi vision of a Europe free of Jews was shared by the leader of Palestinian nationalism, who sought a Middle East free of Jews, and was as willing as was Hitler to accomplish that through mass murder. When it came to Palestinians finding their salvation in the slaughter of Jews, Netanyahu is at least correct about there being ample precedent.<<
Abraham H. Miller
aris2chat
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>>
The words spoken by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the Mufti and Hitler have been taken out of context. The speech was devoted not to the Holocaust and who was responsible for it, but to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It is a historical fact that the Palestinian national movement then headed by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, favored a alliance with Nazi Germany in the hope of eliminating the Jewish presence in Palestine.
It is also a fact that for the first seven years after Hitler’s assumption of power, the policy followed by him with regard to Jews was to force them out of Germany, by making their life as miserable as possible.
This is sometimes referred as the forced emigration policy – and did not include murder.
With this in mind, the Nazi regime came to an understanding, known as the Transfer Agreement, with the Zionist organization in Palestine that facilitated the emigration of thousands of Jews to that country. The horrific Kristallnacht pogrom of November 1938 was also largely prompted by the Nazi frustration at, in their estimation, the too-slow emigration of Jews. After that pogrom the Nazi regime, still adhering to the emigration policy, actively participated in what became known as the Rublee- Schacht plan to allow most remaining Jews to leave the country, even allowing as many children as possible to leave in what became known as the Kindertransport.
Even into the war, the Nazis toyed with the idea of the Madagascar Plan, whereby all of Europe’s Jews would be transferred, and in Vienna Adolf Eichman urged the Jewish Berthold Storfer and the Zionist Mossad Le’Aliyah Bet (Institute for Aliya B) to speed up the emigration of Jews, legally or not. In fact, they allowed a certain Josef Schleich to organize the illegal crossing of Jews into Yugoslavia – that is, until the German invasion of that country in April 1941.
It was only on the eve of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, on June 22, 1941, that the Nazi regime, frustrated at the apparent unwillingness of the major democracies to allow the ingress of Jews into their countries, and not willing to be “loaded down” with millions of additional Jews in the conquered countries, that it switched to a policy of mass extermination.
So, if Netanyahu meant that the original Nazi plan, pursued for over seven years, was to encourage emigration of Jews, he was right. At the same time, when Hitler met with the Mufti in late November 1941, he needed no advice from him regarding what to do with the Jews, as the killing of Jews had been proceeding at full speed for the past five months on the Soviet front with the help of the Einsatzgruppen.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews had already been shot to death over open pits and ravines, such as took place in Babi Yar, outside Kiev, Ukraine, in September 1941.
The Mufti nevertheless asked of Hitler to help free the Arab world from the so-called British stranglehold, which would also finish off the half a million Jews in then Palestine.
Hitler responded that first the military campaign against the Soviet Union had to be completed, and then Palestine would be no problem for the German military, and the Mufti would be positioned as the leader of all Arabs. The Mufti settled down in Berlin, with a hefty Nazi salary and a radio station, on which he called for all Muslims within and outside the German sphere to rise and kill Jews.
He then journeyed to Bosnia, to encourage local Muslims to join special SS-supported military units. When reviewing these troops, he was careful to give the Nazi salute – something that even Petain in France and Horthy in Hungary, both allies of Nazi Germany, refrained from doing when meeting with their Nazi overlords.
Furthermore, the Mufti’s strong opposition to allowing Jews to leave German-controlled countries for fear they would head to Palestine led to the German scuttling of a plan favored by its ally Bulgaria to allow some 5,000 Jewish children to leave for Palestine. Interestingly, Eichmann, in his talks with Joel Brand in the famous “blood for goods” deal was careful to indicate that the Jews that would be freed under this arrangement would all have to leave German- controlled countries via Spain, not any Balkan country, for fear of undermining the agreement with the Mufti not to allow any Jews access to Palestine.
In summary, had Netanyahu devoted his talk to the Holocaust and Hitler’s role in it, he undoubtedly would have underlined Hitler’s role in initiating the mass murder of Jews; a determination by him that needed no prompting by anyone else – although, for the first seven years of Hitler’s 12-year rule the policy was not extermination, but forced emigration.
At the same time, the Mufti’s constant prodding, probably strengthened Hitler’s resolve that he was on the right track when he had already abandoned emigration in favor of extermination. No wonder the Palestinian social media hardly mentions the Mufti, an unrepentant pro-Nazi collaborator who escaped justice during the Nuremberg trials of 1946 by fleeing Germany.
It should not be forgotten that Haj Amin al-Husseini was the leading spokesman for the Palestinian national movement during its formative years, beginning in 1920, and right up to the creation of Israel in 1948.<<
The author was formerly head of the Righteous Among the Nations Department of Yad Vashem, and currently teaches about the Holocaust at Yeshiva University-Stern College and Touro College, New York.
The words spoken by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the Mufti and Hitler have been taken out of context. The speech was devoted not to the Holocaust and who was responsible for it, but to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It is a historical fact that the Palestinian national movement then headed by the Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini, favored a alliance with Nazi Germany in the hope of eliminating the Jewish presence in Palestine.
It is also a fact that for the first seven years after Hitler’s assumption of power, the policy followed by him with regard to Jews was to force them out of Germany, by making their life as miserable as possible.
This is sometimes referred as the forced emigration policy – and did not include murder.
With this in mind, the Nazi regime came to an understanding, known as the Transfer Agreement, with the Zionist organization in Palestine that facilitated the emigration of thousands of Jews to that country. The horrific Kristallnacht pogrom of November 1938 was also largely prompted by the Nazi frustration at, in their estimation, the too-slow emigration of Jews. After that pogrom the Nazi regime, still adhering to the emigration policy, actively participated in what became known as the Rublee- Schacht plan to allow most remaining Jews to leave the country, even allowing as many children as possible to leave in what became known as the Kindertransport.
Even into the war, the Nazis toyed with the idea of the Madagascar Plan, whereby all of Europe’s Jews would be transferred, and in Vienna Adolf Eichman urged the Jewish Berthold Storfer and the Zionist Mossad Le’Aliyah Bet (Institute for Aliya B) to speed up the emigration of Jews, legally or not. In fact, they allowed a certain Josef Schleich to organize the illegal crossing of Jews into Yugoslavia – that is, until the German invasion of that country in April 1941.
It was only on the eve of the German invasion of the Soviet Union, on June 22, 1941, that the Nazi regime, frustrated at the apparent unwillingness of the major democracies to allow the ingress of Jews into their countries, and not willing to be “loaded down” with millions of additional Jews in the conquered countries, that it switched to a policy of mass extermination.
So, if Netanyahu meant that the original Nazi plan, pursued for over seven years, was to encourage emigration of Jews, he was right. At the same time, when Hitler met with the Mufti in late November 1941, he needed no advice from him regarding what to do with the Jews, as the killing of Jews had been proceeding at full speed for the past five months on the Soviet front with the help of the Einsatzgruppen.
Hundreds of thousands of Jews had already been shot to death over open pits and ravines, such as took place in Babi Yar, outside Kiev, Ukraine, in September 1941.
The Mufti nevertheless asked of Hitler to help free the Arab world from the so-called British stranglehold, which would also finish off the half a million Jews in then Palestine.
Hitler responded that first the military campaign against the Soviet Union had to be completed, and then Palestine would be no problem for the German military, and the Mufti would be positioned as the leader of all Arabs. The Mufti settled down in Berlin, with a hefty Nazi salary and a radio station, on which he called for all Muslims within and outside the German sphere to rise and kill Jews.
He then journeyed to Bosnia, to encourage local Muslims to join special SS-supported military units. When reviewing these troops, he was careful to give the Nazi salute – something that even Petain in France and Horthy in Hungary, both allies of Nazi Germany, refrained from doing when meeting with their Nazi overlords.
Furthermore, the Mufti’s strong opposition to allowing Jews to leave German-controlled countries for fear they would head to Palestine led to the German scuttling of a plan favored by its ally Bulgaria to allow some 5,000 Jewish children to leave for Palestine. Interestingly, Eichmann, in his talks with Joel Brand in the famous “blood for goods” deal was careful to indicate that the Jews that would be freed under this arrangement would all have to leave German- controlled countries via Spain, not any Balkan country, for fear of undermining the agreement with the Mufti not to allow any Jews access to Palestine.
In summary, had Netanyahu devoted his talk to the Holocaust and Hitler’s role in it, he undoubtedly would have underlined Hitler’s role in initiating the mass murder of Jews; a determination by him that needed no prompting by anyone else – although, for the first seven years of Hitler’s 12-year rule the policy was not extermination, but forced emigration.
At the same time, the Mufti’s constant prodding, probably strengthened Hitler’s resolve that he was on the right track when he had already abandoned emigration in favor of extermination. No wonder the Palestinian social media hardly mentions the Mufti, an unrepentant pro-Nazi collaborator who escaped justice during the Nuremberg trials of 1946 by fleeing Germany.
It should not be forgotten that Haj Amin al-Husseini was the leading spokesman for the Palestinian national movement during its formative years, beginning in 1920, and right up to the creation of Israel in 1948.<<
The author was formerly head of the Righteous Among the Nations Department of Yad Vashem, and currently teaches about the Holocaust at Yeshiva University-Stern College and Touro College, New York.
aris2chat
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You worry about inciting violence? Mufti Hussein is still saying there was never a temple, the mount was always a mosque since the world began. Talk about revisionism.
>>“However until 1948, when they re-wrote history, their own Wakf guidebooks stated clearly that the Dome of the Rock is situated on the indisputable and universally accepted site of Solomon’s Temple". <<
>>“However until 1948, when they re-wrote history, their own Wakf guidebooks stated clearly that the Dome of the Rock is situated on the indisputable and universally accepted site of Solomon’s Temple". <<
- Thread starter
- #553
It is by no means a diversion. It's a deliberate attempt by Netanyahu to distort history and paint modern day Palestinians as Nazi's - a people who can not be negotiated with but only conquered or exterminated. The Palestinian fight was a land issue, if it is becoming a religious issue we need to ask why?
It's not just the Palestinians who are driving this, it's the Israeli's. From their refusal or lack of political will to curb their own extremists to their expansion of religious (Jewish only) settlements in the Occupied Territories. Netanyahu is trying to change the old dynamic in to a new one, where the Palestinian cause is lined it up with the Holocaust. What a great way to make them non-people. That is a disgusting misuse of history for political gains and he is no better than the Palestinian leadership in spreading hatred.
Religious War Has Moved to the Forefront of the Israel-Palestine Conflict | VICE News
Yet while both Israeli and Palestinian politicians have been quick to hijack religion for political ends, as the adage goes: "If you play with fire, you get burnt." Sitting in his east Jerusalem study, Dr. Ekrima Sa'eed Sabri, the former grand mufti of Al-Aqsa Mosque, starkly outlines the dangers of the new blend of theology and politics.
"Politicians are weak and self-interested, people with religious motives are pure," Sabri told VICE News. Behind him is a framed black-and-gold Arabic typography of the 99 names given to God in Islam. "A religious conflict is much stronger than a national one, people will go further because religion is the most important thing [to them]," he warns.
"Politicians are weak and self-interested, people with religious motives are pure," Sabri told VICE News. Behind him is a framed black-and-gold Arabic typography of the 99 names given to God in Islam. "A religious conflict is much stronger than a national one, people will go further because religion is the most important thing [to them]," he warns.
What makes Netanyahu's posturing any different than the hate mongering of Hamas? Nothing. Nothing at all.
Attacks and anti-Arab bigotry 'more acceptable' in Israel
Does Israel teach anti-arab bigotry?
Over the last ten years, there have been periodic outbursts of rage over the alleged anti-Semitic nature of Palestinian textbooks. Most of these episodes have been instigated by an Israeli-based organization called the Center for Monitoring the Impact of Peace (aka, the Institute for Monitoring Peace and Cultural Tolerance in School Education).
However, the Center’s conclusions have been corroborated only by other Israeli institutions such as Palestinian Media Watch. And, not surprisingly, almost all independent investigations examining the same issue have come up with very different conclusions.
These non-Zionist sources include The Nation magazine, which published a report on Palestinian textbooks in 2001; the George Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research, reporting in 2002; the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information, reporting in 2004; and the U.S. State Department Report of 2009. They all found that Palestinian textbooks did not preach anti-Semitism.
However, the Center’s conclusions have been corroborated only by other Israeli institutions such as Palestinian Media Watch. And, not surprisingly, almost all independent investigations examining the same issue have come up with very different conclusions.
These non-Zionist sources include The Nation magazine, which published a report on Palestinian textbooks in 2001; the George Eckert Institute for International Textbook Research, reporting in 2002; the Israel/Palestine Center for Research and Information, reporting in 2004; and the U.S. State Department Report of 2009. They all found that Palestinian textbooks did not preach anti-Semitism.
2012 Survey: A majority supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.
Most of the Jewish public in Israel supports the establishment of an apartheid regime in Israel if it formally annexes the West Bank.
A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows...
...The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.
A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.
...Secular Israelis appear to be the least racist - 68 percent of them would not mind having Arab neighbors in their apartment building, 73 percent would not mind Arab students in their children's class and 50 percent believe Arabs should not be discriminated against in admission to workplaces.
The survey indicates that a third to half of Jewish Israelis want to live in a state that practices formal, open discrimination against its Arab citizens. An even larger majority wants to live in an apartheid state if Israel annexes the territories.
A majority also explicitly favors discrimination against the state's Arab citizens, a survey shows...
...The majority of the Jewish public, 59 percent, wants preference for Jews over Arabs in admission to jobs in government ministries. Almost half the Jews, 49 percent, want the state to treat Jewish citizens better than Arab ones; 42 percent don't want to live in the same building with Arabs and 42 percent don't want their children in the same class with Arab children.
A third of the Jewish public wants a law barring Israeli Arabs from voting for the Knesset and a large majority of 69 percent objects to giving 2.5 million Palestinians the right to vote if Israel annexes the West Bank.
...Secular Israelis appear to be the least racist - 68 percent of them would not mind having Arab neighbors in their apartment building, 73 percent would not mind Arab students in their children's class and 50 percent believe Arabs should not be discriminated against in admission to workplaces.
The survey indicates that a third to half of Jewish Israelis want to live in a state that practices formal, open discrimination against its Arab citizens. An even larger majority wants to live in an apartheid state if Israel annexes the territories.
These are the views that Netanyahu represents and promotes when he makes the sort of statements he made.
CMike
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Netyanhu was spot on. You are putting words in his mouth that he never said.
Quoting anti-Israel/Jewish books really doesn't help your case. Even Jewish have acted against Jews throughout Jewish history.
Netanyahu's point was clear to me.
This isn't about territory.
This isn't about settlements
This isn't about the "palestinians" having their own state.
This isn't about the Temple Mount.
This is a holy religious war.
The arabs tried to kill all the Jews before they captured the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem in 1967.
The arabs tried to kill all the Jews when they were awarded a tiny sliver of land in 1948.
The arabs tried to kill the Jews before Israel had a state.
The arabs tried to kill all the Jews in the 1930s.
That is the reason that Netanyahu brought up the Grand Mufti's collaboration with Hitler.
The Mufti may not have been responsible for the Holocaust however, he was an active collaborator in it.
- Thread starter
- #555
I haven't quoted any anti-Israel/Jewish books.
montelatici
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Why wouldn't the Christians and Muslims being invaded by European Zionists intent on dispossessing and evicting them resist the invasion?
aris2chat
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So you don't see the Palestinians as being akin to Nazis even after reading their charters. Don't forget that only about 5% of all Germans were Nazis, while 60% of all muslims are Nazis .
You are trying to because the truth is being told now. He was as much to blame as any Nazi officer that lined the Jews up and chose which ones would die
Humanity
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