Nearly all of recent COVID deaths are among the unvaccinated

[Flopper]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

 

[krichton]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

 

[Rigby5]

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

Some strains of H1N1 are endemic in humans and cause a small fraction of all influenza-like illness and a small fraction of all seasonal influenza

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

You said." the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat." Since you are assuming it could come back, then you must believe that it will it be eradicate. I do not believe that will happen at least not in the foreseeable future for several reasons. The virus cannot be completely eradiated because we simple will not be able to reach herd immunity throughout the world. Once the disease and deaths have reached and acceptable level, the vaccinations will stop and the virus will begin to spread again. Epidemics will pop up from time to time indefinitely. Also, high rates of replication and this virus’s rate of mutation makes it very likely that before this virus is contained in the world, we will be dealing with a lot of dangerous strains.

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus so your assumption that it comes from bats is a supposition. The virus (SC2r-CoVs) found in bats in China was a member of the coronavirus family but not the virus that causes Covid-19. There is some evidence that indicates SC2r-CoVs could have jumped species and became SARS-CoV-2 in humans. However, there are other possibilities that scientists are investigating.

• Direct spillover from animals such as bats to humans
• Spillover from other animals to humans through an intermediate host
• Introduction through refrigerated or frozen foods
• Laboratory leaks

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus. Here are 4 scenarios.

Experts say that understanding how the virus first leapt from animals to humans is essential to preventing future pandemics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Since the virus found in bats in China is not the same virus that causes Covid-19 and we don't know if there was a species jump to humans your statements about it are not relevant.

I disagree that we don't know that covid-19 is endemic to bats only.
First of all there is the circumstantial evidence that it can't be endemic to any animal we come in common contact with, or else we would have been very familiar with it by now. Second is the pathology of it being immune to fever heat, which then pretty much limits its natural host to something with a high metabolism, like birds or bats. Third it that the known bat strains are the closest match. Not identical, but very close. If we checked more bats, we likely would find an exact match.

But it does not matter, since all we care about is that it is not endemic to humans. It is very fragile and easily killed by the human immune system. It can't survive for more than 2 weeks in a human host. It is not good enough at hiding. So it will never become endemic to humans unless a strain evolves that is much less lethal.

I am sure covid-19 will be eradicated in humans. It should have been eradicated last March. They only reason why it wasn't, is that we deliberately rationed out easy hosts for it, in order to keep it alive and well. If we had not "flattened the curve", then we would have reach herd immunity in the first month.
Your mistake is counting only on vaccination for immunity, and normally all epidemics are ended without any vaccine immunity.
It is only inherent and acquired immunity from recovery that ends all epidemics normally.
If the vaccinations stop, infection does NOT start to increase.
The % immune will still be increasing from acquired recovery immunity, so eventually the virus will disappear in all humans.
That is always what has happened to all epidemics.

And I also disagree that covid-19 or any virus has a high mutation rate.
Mutations are random changes, like from radiation.
They are almost always just destruction and make the RNA non-viable.
That is NOT what the variants are coming from.
There are 2 possible sources of variants.
One is that they came from mutations, but over millions of years, since that is the time frame you need to accidentally get a mutation that is viable. They did not recently mutate, but just recently become more common, out of recent natural selection.
The second possibility is that they are not mutations at all, but hybrids. That may sound strange since a virus is not sexual reproduction, but more than one virus can inject its RNA into the same host nucleus, and when that happens, it is possible for the RNA to combine in different ways.

 

[Rigby5]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

I got my Moderna vaccine at the local WalMart, and they had no idea how to report negative reactions.
Nor does anyone use the raw database.
The report from the CDC that said 6,000 vaccine deaths, said it used "selected" data.
Meaning they ignored the unverified.

 

[Rigby5]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

I do not doubt the study but your interpretation.
They did not say the virus caused heart damage.
I know that without a doubt because the covid-19 virus can not at all survive in the bloodsteam.
What they said instead, is that then the immune system over reacted and started macerating up healthy tissue in the lungs, it produced thousands of little bloodclots, also containing some covid refuse, that caused harm in the heart, brain, etc.
All the harm is done by the immune system cytokine storm.
And that is a very important distinction, since the cytokine storm can be treated with immuno suppressants.

 

[Rigby5]

This is fear mongering based on conspiracy theories.

Wrong.
The FDA has refused to approve these mRNA vaccines so far.
The inventor of mRNA vaccine, Dr. Robert Malone has said they were rushed and flawed.
Thousands of doctors and nurses are getting fired for refusing these mRNA vaccination.

The only "fear mongering" is by those pushing the vaccines.
Epidemics normally end by acquired immunity, not vaccinations.

Wrong, Pfizer followed by Moderna are the first to submit requests for both EUA approval and then full approval and they have not been refused.

It seems likely that FDA will give full approve to both both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines by the end of this year. It takes at least 6 mos. to go from EUA to full approval due to statuary requirements. As one FDA offical said, these vaccines with over 130 million dose given has proven to be not only one of the most effective vaccines the FDA has approve but also one of the safest.

Yes, all the requests for FDA approval so far have been refused.
The FDA has said the testing has to be about 10 times greater than what they did so far.
They may achieve sufficient testing by the end of the year though.
All depends on how many people they lie to in Africa.

{...

• Two vaccine manufacturers have submitted applications for full approval of their COVID-19 vaccines, but the FDA hasn’t yet indicated when a decision will come.
• COVID-19 vaccines have been given emergency use authorization in the United States but have not yet been granted full approval.
• So far, the FDA has shown no indication of when it will grant full approval for these vaccines.
• Experts say full approval may help increase vaccination rates.
  
  ...}

Which COVID-19 Vaccine Is Best: For Adults, Children & More

Receiving any of the COVID-19 vaccines is better than remaining unvaccinated. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

 

[krichton]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

I do not doubt the study but your interpretation.
They did not say the virus caused heart damage.
I know that without a doubt because the covid-19 virus can not at all survive in the bloodsteam.
What they said instead, is that then the immune system over reacted and started macerating up healthy tissue in the lungs, it produced thousands of little bloodclots, also containing some covid refuse, that caused harm in the heart, brain, etc.
All the harm is done by the immune system cytokine storm.
And that is a very important distinction, since the cytokine storm can be treated with immuno suppressants.

That's precisely what the study indicated. The problem isn't my interpretation, the problem is, you can't accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Flopper]

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

Some strains of H1N1 are endemic in humans and cause a small fraction of all influenza-like illness and a small fraction of all seasonal influenza

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

You said." the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat." Since you are assuming it could come back, then you must believe that it will it be eradicate. I do not believe that will happen at least not in the foreseeable future for several reasons. The virus cannot be completely eradiated because we simple will not be able to reach herd immunity throughout the world. Once the disease and deaths have reached and acceptable level, the vaccinations will stop and the virus will begin to spread again. Epidemics will pop up from time to time indefinitely. Also, high rates of replication and this virus’s rate of mutation makes it very likely that before this virus is contained in the world, we will be dealing with a lot of dangerous strains.

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus so your assumption that it comes from bats is a supposition. The virus (SC2r-CoVs) found in bats in China was a member of the coronavirus family but not the virus that causes Covid-19. There is some evidence that indicates SC2r-CoVs could have jumped species and became SARS-CoV-2 in humans. However, there are other possibilities that scientists are investigating.

• Direct spillover from animals such as bats to humans
• Spillover from other animals to humans through an intermediate host
• Introduction through refrigerated or frozen foods
• Laboratory leaks

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus. Here are 4 scenarios.

Experts say that understanding how the virus first leapt from animals to humans is essential to preventing future pandemics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Since the virus found in bats in China is not the same virus that causes Covid-19 and we don't know if there was a species jump to humans your statements about it are not relevant.

I disagree that we don't know that covid-19 is endemic to bats only.
First of all there is the circumstantial evidence that it can't be endemic to any animal we come in common contact with, or else we would have been very familiar with it by now. Second is the pathology of it being immune to fever heat, which then pretty much limits its natural host to something with a high metabolism, like birds or bats. Third it that the known bat strains are the closest match. Not identical, but very close. If we checked more bats, we likely would find an exact match.

But it does not matter, since all we care about is that it is not endemic to humans. It is very fragile and easily killed by the human immune system. It can't survive for more than 2 weeks in a human host. It is not good enough at hiding. So it will never become endemic to humans unless a strain evolves that is much less lethal.

I am sure covid-19 will be eradicated in humans. It should have been eradicated last March. They only reason why it wasn't, is that we deliberately rationed out easy hosts for it, in order to keep it alive and well. If we had not "flattened the curve", then we would have reach herd immunity in the first month.
Your mistake is counting only on vaccination for immunity, and normally all epidemics are ended without any vaccine immunity.
It is only inherent and acquired immunity from recovery that ends all epidemics normally.
If the vaccinations stop, infection does NOT start to increase.
The % immune will still be increasing from acquired recovery immunity, so eventually the virus will disappear in all humans.
That is always what has happened to all epidemics.

And I also disagree that covid-19 or any virus has a high mutation rate.
Mutations are random changes, like from radiation.
They are almost always just destruction and make the RNA non-viable.
That is NOT what the variants are coming from.
There are 2 possible sources of variants.
One is that they came from mutations, but over millions of years, since that is the time frame you need to accidentally get a mutation that is viable. They did not recently mutate, but just recently become more common, out of recent natural selection.
The second possibility is that they are not mutations at all, but hybrids. That may sound strange since a virus is not sexual reproduction, but more than one virus can inject its RNA into the same host nucleus, and when that happens, it is possible for the RNA to combine in different ways.

In answer to your post, lets look at what we actually know rather than speculation, superstitions with limited evidence and SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guesses).

• We do know the virus (SARS-CoV-2) is the cause of Covid-19 however it's origin is still a mystery. On the Internet you can read scientists claiming the virus (SC2r-CoVs) originated with one of serval animals infected with it, passed to bats in China and then jumping species to end up in humans as SARS-CoV-2, others say it originated in the bats and jump species to humans, and still others claim it came from fish in wet markets in China, others claim it came from frozen food, and still others claim it came from a lab in China. As of today, there is no strong consensus among scientists as to it's origin. Typically it takes at least 2 years of research to determine the origin of a virus..
• We know that companion animals like cats and dogs, big cats in zoos or sanctuaries, gorillas in zoos, mink on farms, and a few other mammals can be infected with SARS-CoV-2, but we don’t yet know all of the animals that can get infected and we don't know of any of them spreading it humans.
• Bats in China which some believe to be a source of the Covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) have not been found with this virus. However a similar virus (SC2r-CoVs) which may cause an infection similar to Covid-19 has been found and scientists have shown how it may have jumped species to humans and become SARS-CoV-2.
• An endemic disease is a disease that is always present in a certain population or region. One of the most talked-about endemic diseases is malaria. However, there are a number of others like STDs in certain parts of the world. And Syphilis which at one time was endemic throughout world but it is not today due to effective treatments.
• There is no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is endemic in the China bats because SARS-CoV-2 has not been found in these bats. However, (SC2r-CoVs which some believe is the source of SARS-CoV-2 maybe endemic.
• Endemic diseases can be present at high levels but it is rare.
• Covid-19 is not considered to be endemic anywhere at this time. However many scientist believe it will become endemic at least in some regions if not the whole world. Whether this occurs, depends on two factor, how fast people attain immunity thru vaccines/infections and the appearance of new deadly variants.

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus. Here are 4 scenarios.

Experts say that understanding how the virus first leapt from animals to humans is essential to preventing future pandemics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

What It Means When a Disease Is Endemic

An endemic disease means that it's always present within a population. Learn about examples of an endemic and how it differs from an epidemic and a pandemic.

www.verywellhealth.com

Evidence for SARS-CoV-2 related coronaviruses circulating in bats and pangolins in Southeast Asia - Nature Communications

A bat origin for SARS-CoV-2 has been proposed. Here, by sampling wild Rhinolophus acuminatus bats from Thailand, the authors identified a SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus (SC2r-CoV), designated as RacCS203, with 91.5% genome similarity to SARS-CoV-2, and show that sera obtained from bats and...

www.nature.com

What It Means When a Disease Is Endemic

An endemic disease means that it's always present within a population. Learn about examples of an endemic and how it differs from an epidemic and a pandemic.

www.verywellhealth.com

 

[sparky]

It;s not a vaccine

~S~

 

[EvMetro]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

I got my Moderna vaccine at the local WalMart, and they had no idea how to report negative reactions.
Nor does anyone use the raw database.
The report from the CDC that said 6,000 vaccine deaths, said it used "selected" data.
Meaning they ignored the unverified.

Even if they DID know how to report the adverse reaction to vaers, vaers is compromised now. Vaers is deleting and manipulating the data now in order to hide the true number of vaccine deaths, kinda like the cdc did to inflate the covid deaths.

 

[Rigby5]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

I do not doubt the study but your interpretation.
They did not say the virus caused heart damage.
I know that without a doubt because the covid-19 virus can not at all survive in the bloodsteam.
What they said instead, is that then the immune system over reacted and started macerating up healthy tissue in the lungs, it produced thousands of little bloodclots, also containing some covid refuse, that caused harm in the heart, brain, etc.
All the harm is done by the immune system cytokine storm.
And that is a very important distinction, since the cytokine storm can be treated with immuno suppressants.

That's precisely what the study indicated. The problem isn't my interpretation, the problem is, you can't accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Wrong.
Saying covid-19 is damaging the heart, implies the virus is doing it, and since we have no treatment for viruses, then there is nothing that can be done. But it is NOT the virus causing the harm, but an over active immune system, which we CAN treat easily with many immuno suppressants.

 

[Flopper]

This is fear mongering based on conspiracy theories.

Wrong.
The FDA has refused to approve these mRNA vaccines so far.
The inventor of mRNA vaccine, Dr. Robert Malone has said they were rushed and flawed.
Thousands of doctors and nurses are getting fired for refusing these mRNA vaccination.

The only "fear mongering" is by those pushing the vaccines.
Epidemics normally end by acquired immunity, not vaccinations.

Wrong, Pfizer followed by Moderna are the first to submit requests for both EUA approval and then full approval and they have not been refused.

It seems likely that FDA will give full approve to both both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines by the end of this year. It takes at least 6 mos. to go from EUA to full approval due to statuary requirements. As one FDA offical said, these vaccines with over 130 million dose given has proven to be not only one of the most effective vaccines the FDA has approve but also one of the safest.

Yes, all the requests for FDA approval so far have been refused.
The FDA has said the testing has to be about 10 times greater than what they did so far.
They may achieve sufficient testing by the end of the year though.
All depends on how many people they lie to in Africa.

{...

• Two vaccine manufacturers have submitted applications for full approval of their COVID-19 vaccines, but the FDA hasn’t yet indicated when a decision will come.
• COVID-19 vaccines have been given emergency use authorization in the United States but have not yet been granted full approval.
• So far, the FDA has shown no indication of when it will grant full approval for these vaccines.
• Experts say full approval may help increase vaccination rates.
  
  ...}

Which COVID-19 Vaccine Is Best: For Adults, Children & More

Receiving any of the COVID-19 vaccines is better than remaining unvaccinated. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

You claim "Yes, all the requests for FDA approval so far have been refused" I can't find any evidence that this statement is true. How about providing a link? The fact that the FDA has not yet approved the vaccine manufacture requests for full approval is not the same as refusing their application. It typical takes at least 6 months to gain full approval after submission of the application. 6 months for Pfzier would be November and December for Moderna.

 

[Turtlesoup]

It's somewhat ironic that the red states where COVID is rising again are the same kinds of areas that rejected any help for those with HIV/AIDS.......is it Karma?

Over 50% of current active cases are in 5 states. All of which are blue.

You bet it's karma.

What are the 5 states with the most active cases? It seems like Texas and Florida would be in the top 5, no???

Florida has gotten plenty of cases with everybody moving down here----We don't have the most cases. We certainly got all the old people....but we aren't dying at the percentage others are.

 

[Flopper]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

I do not doubt the study but your interpretation.
They did not say the virus caused heart damage.
I know that without a doubt because the covid-19 virus can not at all survive in the bloodsteam.
What they said instead, is that then the immune system over reacted and started macerating up healthy tissue in the lungs, it produced thousands of little bloodclots, also containing some covid refuse, that caused harm in the heart, brain, etc.
All the harm is done by the immune system cytokine storm.
And that is a very important distinction, since the cytokine storm can be treated with immuno suppressants.

That's precisely what the study indicated. The problem isn't my interpretation, the problem is, you can't accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Wrong.
Saying covid-19 is damaging the heart, implies the virus is doing it, and since we have no treatment for viruses, then there is nothing that can be done. But it is NOT the virus causing the harm, but an over active immune system, which we CAN treat easily with many immuno suppressants.

NO. Antivirals are used to treat viruses. The first successful antiviral, aciclovir, was release in 1974, a nucleoside analogue, and is effective against herpesvirus infections. Today there are nearly a hundred approved antivirals . Remdesivir is currently the only approved antiviral for treatment of Covid-19

List of antiviral drugs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Rigby5]

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

Some strains of H1N1 are endemic in humans and cause a small fraction of all influenza-like illness and a small fraction of all seasonal influenza

Why would I get a vaccine that will certainly make me feel sick and that might not even stop me from getting covid?

Because it could save your life and prevent you from spreading it to others

It doesn't prevent the spread. It merely "reduces" it, and that barely. Don't you know?

COVID-19 Vaccines Reduce Asymptomatic Cases

Routine screening of employees at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital show lower rates of asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection among vaccinated workers.

www.contagionlive.com

What vaccines do is reduce successful transmissions. To survive, virus particles much reach a host that has not become immune either through vaccination or previous infection. The more people that have been vaccinated, the harder it is for the virus to spread. The primary method of transmission is expelled droplets carrying the virus. These droplets dry and dissipate as air currents move them so they must hit on suitable hosts typically within minutes. The more people that are vaccinated the harder it is for the virus to a reach suitable hosts. If 100% of a population has become immunity by vaccinations, there will be no suitable hosts. Since we will never reach 100%, there will always be tiny bit of the virus remaining. The Spanish influence epidemic was over 100 years ago, yet the virus still exist.

Vaccines do not at all in any way prevent infection.
All they do is quicken the ability of the immune response to kill the infection.
That does reduce successful transmission, but on the sending side, not on the receiving side.
The receiver is not going to be producing antibodies all the time, and instead will only produce them AFTER an full infection has taken hold.

And actually, we likely only need 70% immunity, by recovery, vaccination, or inherent immunity, in order to wipe out the covid-19 virus forever.

And there will be no "tiny bit of virus remaining".
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans and is only barely able to survive in humans, with a maximum time being about 2 weeks.
So it should have been easy to eliminate this virus last year.

The Spanish flu is endemic to humans, and has been around continually.
It is not at all like covid-19 except that we also prevented the Spanish flu from going away, by "flattening the curve". " Vaccines do not at all in

I agree, viruses do not prevent infection. However, I think you're being a bit picky. The more accurate statement is the vaccine enables the immune system to prevent infection.

Only two infectious diseases have been successfully eradicated, Smallpox in humans and Rinderpest in cattle and buffalos. It took about 200 years and a worldwide vaccination program to eradicate Small Pox. It only took only 60 years to eradicate rinderpest which was far easier since it only affected cattle and buffalos and they didn't have an option of saying no to the vaccine.

Spanish Influenza which killed at least 50 million worldwide was caused by the H1H1 virus. By 1920, most countries were probably at or close to herd immunity and governments pronounced an end to the epidemic, primarily to stimulate commerce. Since there was no vaccine, H1NI continued but it was not referred to as the Spanish Influenza, just a bad case of the flu. It was not till the late 1930's that H1N1 was discovered and credited with the Spanish Influenza. A vaccine was created in the 50's and it is now part of the yearly flu vaccine we take in the US. H1N1 has reached epidemic proportions a number of times. Swine Flu was a strain of H1N1 which killed millions and is still around today and continues to produce new strains.

H1N1 is a great example as to why we should eradicate this virus. If we just reduce hospitalizations and deaths so that we consider it a minor health problem, it will continue to replicate and eventually throw off a new very deadly strain. Like H1N1, it will rise again. We have developed one the most effect vaccines ever and we could eliminate covid-19 forever but only if we continue to vaccinate which seems very unlike once we feel it is under control.

But H1N1 is endemic to humans.
It can live indefinitely in humans, partially by hiding from the immune system, and partially by not causing enough harm to cause the loss of a host.
Covid-19 is not endemic to humans because it can't survive in a human for more than about 2 weeks.
It irritates the immune system to easily and also causes host death too easily.
So the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat.

And since covid-19 is endemic to bats, (and maybe pangolins), we can never get rid of it.
We would have to vaccinate all the bats.

You said." the only way covid-19 is going to come back is if we again interact with its endemic hosts in nature, the bat." Since you are assuming it could come back, then you must believe that it will it be eradicate. I do not believe that will happen at least not in the foreseeable future for several reasons. The virus cannot be completely eradiated because we simple will not be able to reach herd immunity throughout the world. Once the disease and deaths have reached and acceptable level, the vaccinations will stop and the virus will begin to spread again. Epidemics will pop up from time to time indefinitely. Also, high rates of replication and this virus’s rate of mutation makes it very likely that before this virus is contained in the world, we will be dealing with a lot of dangerous strains.

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus so your assumption that it comes from bats is a supposition. The virus (SC2r-CoVs) found in bats in China was a member of the coronavirus family but not the virus that causes Covid-19. There is some evidence that indicates SC2r-CoVs could have jumped species and became SARS-CoV-2 in humans. However, there are other possibilities that scientists are investigating.

• Direct spillover from animals such as bats to humans
• Spillover from other animals to humans through an intermediate host
• Introduction through refrigerated or frozen foods
• Laboratory leaks

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus. Here are 4 scenarios.

Experts say that understanding how the virus first leapt from animals to humans is essential to preventing future pandemics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Since the virus found in bats in China is not the same virus that causes Covid-19 and we don't know if there was a species jump to humans your statements about it are not relevant.

I disagree that we don't know that covid-19 is endemic to bats only.
First of all there is the circumstantial evidence that it can't be endemic to any animal we come in common contact with, or else we would have been very familiar with it by now. Second is the pathology of it being immune to fever heat, which then pretty much limits its natural host to something with a high metabolism, like birds or bats. Third it that the known bat strains are the closest match. Not identical, but very close. If we checked more bats, we likely would find an exact match.

But it does not matter, since all we care about is that it is not endemic to humans. It is very fragile and easily killed by the human immune system. It can't survive for more than 2 weeks in a human host. It is not good enough at hiding. So it will never become endemic to humans unless a strain evolves that is much less lethal.

I am sure covid-19 will be eradicated in humans. It should have been eradicated last March. They only reason why it wasn't, is that we deliberately rationed out easy hosts for it, in order to keep it alive and well. If we had not "flattened the curve", then we would have reach herd immunity in the first month.
Your mistake is counting only on vaccination for immunity, and normally all epidemics are ended without any vaccine immunity.
It is only inherent and acquired immunity from recovery that ends all epidemics normally.
If the vaccinations stop, infection does NOT start to increase.
The % immune will still be increasing from acquired recovery immunity, so eventually the virus will disappear in all humans.
That is always what has happened to all epidemics.

And I also disagree that covid-19 or any virus has a high mutation rate.
Mutations are random changes, like from radiation.
They are almost always just destruction and make the RNA non-viable.
That is NOT what the variants are coming from.
There are 2 possible sources of variants.
One is that they came from mutations, but over millions of years, since that is the time frame you need to accidentally get a mutation that is viable. They did not recently mutate, but just recently become more common, out of recent natural selection.
The second possibility is that they are not mutations at all, but hybrids. That may sound strange since a virus is not sexual reproduction, but more than one virus can inject its RNA into the same host nucleus, and when that happens, it is possible for the RNA to combine in different ways.

In answer to your post, lets look at what we actually know rather than speculation, superstitions with limited evidence and SWAG (Scientific Wild Ass Guesses).

• We do know the virus (SARS-CoV-2) is the cause of Covid-19 however it's origin is still a mystery. On the Internet you can read scientists claiming the virus (SC2r-CoVs) originated with one of serval animals infected with it, passed to bats in China and then jumping species to end up in humans as SARS-CoV-2, others say it originated in the bats and jump species to humans, and still others claim it came from fish in wet markets in China, others claim it came from frozen food, and still others claim it came from a lab in China. As of today, there is no strong consensus among scientists as to it's origin. Typically it takes at least 2 years of research to determine the origin of a virus..
• We know that companion animals like cats and dogs, big cats in zoos or sanctuaries, gorillas in zoos, mink on farms, and a few other mammals can be infected with SARS-CoV-2, but we don’t yet know all of the animals that can get infected and we don't know of any of them spreading it humans.
• Bats in China which some believe to be a source of the Covid-19 (SARS-CoV-2) have not been found with this virus. However a similar virus (SC2r-CoVs) which may cause an infection similar to Covid-19 has been found and scientists have shown how it may have jumped species to humans and become SARS-CoV-2.
• An endemic disease is a disease that is always present in a certain population or region. One of the most talked-about endemic diseases is malaria. However, there are a number of others like STDs in certain parts of the world. And Syphilis which at one time was endemic throughout world but it is not today due to effective treatments.
• There is no evidence that SARS-CoV-2 is endemic in the China bats because SARS-CoV-2 has not been found in these bats. However, (SC2r-CoVs which some believe is the source of SARS-CoV-2 maybe endemic.
• Endemic diseases can be present at high levels but it is rare.
• Covid-19 is not considered to be endemic anywhere at this time. However many scientist believe it will become endemic at least in some regions if not the whole world. Whether this occurs, depends on two factor, how fast people attain immunity thru vaccines/infections and the appearance of new deadly variants.

We still don’t know the origins of the coronavirus. Here are 4 scenarios.

Experts say that understanding how the virus first leapt from animals to humans is essential to preventing future pandemics.

www.nationalgeographic.com

What It Means When a Disease Is Endemic

An endemic disease means that it's always present within a population. Learn about examples of an endemic and how it differs from an epidemic and a pandemic.

www.verywellhealth.com

Evidence for SARS-CoV-2 related coronaviruses circulating in bats and pangolins in Southeast Asia - Nature Communications

A bat origin for SARS-CoV-2 has been proposed. Here, by sampling wild Rhinolophus acuminatus bats from Thailand, the authors identified a SARS-CoV-2-related coronavirus (SC2r-CoV), designated as RacCS203, with 91.5% genome similarity to SARS-CoV-2, and show that sera obtained from bats and...

www.nature.com

What It Means When a Disease Is Endemic

An endemic disease means that it's always present within a population. Learn about examples of an endemic and how it differs from an epidemic and a pandemic.

www.verywellhealth.com

There is a strong consensus as to covid-19 origins.
The closest virus found has been in bats.
Bats are notorious for harboring viruses.
This virus is heat poof, so has to have adapted to living in a hot creature, like one that flies.
Bats and humans have no interaction normally, so it would explain why it remained hidden for so long.

Other animals being able to be infected is not relevant if they can not be the endemic host, and I believe none have been found to be an endemic host, just as humans are not.

For covid-19 to become endemic to humans, it would not have to get more deadly, but much less deadly.
To be endemic to a host population, a pathogen has to fairly innocuous to that host population.
Otherwise the immune system won't tolerate its constant presence.

 

[Flopper]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

I got my Moderna vaccine at the local WalMart, and they had no idea how to report negative reactions.
Nor does anyone use the raw database.
The report from the CDC that said 6,000 vaccine deaths, said it used "selected" data.
Meaning they ignored the unverified.

Even if they DID know how to report the adverse reaction to vaers, vaers is compromised now. Vaers is deleting and manipulating the data now in order to hide the true number of vaccine deaths, kinda like the cdc did to inflate the covid deaths.

According to CDC, Vaers reports can not be delete nor edited, not even by the submitter. It's like a tips hot line once you report something it's there to stay. However anyone can access the Vaers reports which allows anyone on the net to create all kinds of support for bogus stories. Anyone can claim their report was deleted or changed. There was one of these stories on Fox recently.

 

[Rigby5]

That's what the statistics and research has told us from real doctors, not ones on message boards.

No real doctor has EVER said covis-19 has or can cause a heart attack.
You are lying.
But clearly the vaccines have caused serious heart problems.

A medical study was done and that was the conclusion they came to regarding covid19 and heart attacks, so it's true.

I do not doubt the study but your interpretation.
They did not say the virus caused heart damage.
I know that without a doubt because the covid-19 virus can not at all survive in the bloodsteam.
What they said instead, is that then the immune system over reacted and started macerating up healthy tissue in the lungs, it produced thousands of little bloodclots, also containing some covid refuse, that caused harm in the heart, brain, etc.
All the harm is done by the immune system cytokine storm.
And that is a very important distinction, since the cytokine storm can be treated with immuno suppressants.

That's precisely what the study indicated. The problem isn't my interpretation, the problem is, you can't accept it because it doesn't fit your narrative.

Wrong.
Saying covid-19 is damaging the heart, implies the virus is doing it, and since we have no treatment for viruses, then there is nothing that can be done. But it is NOT the virus causing the harm, but an over active immune system, which we CAN treat easily with many immuno suppressants.

NO. Antivirals are used to treat viruses. The first successful antiviral, aciclovir, was release in 1974, a nucleoside analogue, and is effective against herpesvirus infections. Today there are nearly a hundred approved antivirals . Remdesivir is currently the only approved antiviral for treatment of Covid-19

List of antiviral drugs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Nah.
Most drugs claiming to be anti-virals are very limited effectiveness, actually treat the side effects instead, or are actually fakes.
The only time you fall back on anti-virals are with things like HIV and Hepititus, where there is no alternative.
And there is absolutely no reason to treat the covid-19 virus at all.
It is essentially harmless.
The only harm comes from an over active immune response, so immuno suppressants are all that are needed.

But I was impressed reading about Remdesivir. I assumed it was just another immuno suppressant like Fluvoxamine. However, it really does alter the RNA mechanisms of viral reproduction. But it is very expensive and short lived, so it is still not very practical.
{...
As an adenosine nucleoside triphosphate analog (GS-443902),[33] the active metabolite of remdesivir interferes with the action of viral RNA-dependent RNA polymerase and evades proofreading by viral exoribonuclease (ExoN), causing a decrease in viral RNA production.[10][34] In some viruses such as the respiratory syncytial virus it causes the RNA-dependent RNA polymerases to pause, but its predominant effect (as in Ebola) is to induce an irreversible chain termination. Unlike with many other chain terminators, this is not mediated by preventing addition of the immediately subsequent nucleotide, but is instead delayed, occurring after five additional bases have been added to the growing RNA chain.[35] For the RNA-Dependent RNA Polymerase of MERS-CoV, SARS-CoV-1, and SARS-CoV-2 arrest of RNA synthesis occurs after incorporation of three additional nucleotides.[36][32] Hence, remdesivir is classified as a direct-acting antiviral agent that works as a delayed chain terminator.
...}

 

[Rigby5]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

I got my Moderna vaccine at the local WalMart, and they had no idea how to report negative reactions.
Nor does anyone use the raw database.
The report from the CDC that said 6,000 vaccine deaths, said it used "selected" data.
Meaning they ignored the unverified.

Even if they DID know how to report the adverse reaction to vaers, vaers is compromised now. Vaers is deleting and manipulating the data now in order to hide the true number of vaccine deaths, kinda like the cdc did to inflate the covid deaths.

According to CDC, Vaers reports can not be delete nor edited, not even by the submitter. It's like a tips hot line once you report something it's there to stay. However anyone can access the Vaers reports which allows anyone on the net to create all kinds of support for bogus stories. Anyone can claim their report was deleted or changed. There was one of these stories on Fox recently.

But the point is no one would use or refer to the raw VAERS data.
The CDC site I quoted said it use "selected" VAERS data, which mean they filtered out the garbage.
Without doing that, the data is worthless.
The 6,000 figure they quoted for covid vaccine deaths was the verified subset, not the raw data.

 

[Rigby5]

This is fear mongering based on conspiracy theories.

Wrong.
The FDA has refused to approve these mRNA vaccines so far.
The inventor of mRNA vaccine, Dr. Robert Malone has said they were rushed and flawed.
Thousands of doctors and nurses are getting fired for refusing these mRNA vaccination.

The only "fear mongering" is by those pushing the vaccines.
Epidemics normally end by acquired immunity, not vaccinations.

Wrong, Pfizer followed by Moderna are the first to submit requests for both EUA approval and then full approval and they have not been refused.

It seems likely that FDA will give full approve to both both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines by the end of this year. It takes at least 6 mos. to go from EUA to full approval due to statuary requirements. As one FDA offical said, these vaccines with over 130 million dose given has proven to be not only one of the most effective vaccines the FDA has approve but also one of the safest.

Yes, all the requests for FDA approval so far have been refused.
The FDA has said the testing has to be about 10 times greater than what they did so far.
They may achieve sufficient testing by the end of the year though.
All depends on how many people they lie to in Africa.

{...

• Two vaccine manufacturers have submitted applications for full approval of their COVID-19 vaccines, but the FDA hasn’t yet indicated when a decision will come.
• COVID-19 vaccines have been given emergency use authorization in the United States but have not yet been granted full approval.
• So far, the FDA has shown no indication of when it will grant full approval for these vaccines.
• Experts say full approval may help increase vaccination rates.
  
  ...}

Which COVID-19 Vaccine Is Best: For Adults, Children & More

Receiving any of the COVID-19 vaccines is better than remaining unvaccinated. Learn more.

www.healthline.com

You claim "Yes, all the requests for FDA approval so far have been refused" I can't find any evidence that this statement is true. How about providing a link? The fact that the FDA has not yet approved the vaccine manufacture requests for full approval is not the same as refusing their application. It typical takes at least 6 months to gain full approval after submission of the application. 6 months for Pfzier would be November and December for Moderna.

Not sure what you mean?
Surely all the vaccine makers, the hospitals, the politicians, etc., want the FDA to approve the vaccines so that they can increase herd immunity or profits.
Since the FDA has not approved any vaccine yet, then clearly either they must have refused, or have told these people they would refuse, so that they have not even tried to apply?
Everything I read says the vaccine makes intend to apply for FDA approval soon, except the full approval process started for Pfizer in May and for Moderna in June.

Why hasn't the FDA given COVID-19 vaccine full approval yet?

The FDA has yet to give full approval.

spectrumlocalnews.com

If the process simply takes a long time to do right, then isn't the FDA refusing to take shortcuts?

 

[EvMetro]

You have been repeatedly told, the VAER database is open to anybody. So people can put any adverse reaction they want into the database.

Wrong.
These are "selected" reports only that have been investigated and verified.

The 6,000 death figure comes from the raw data. The data even says so.

VAERS | Vaccine Safety | CDC

VAERS is the national vaccine safety monitoring system that accepts reports of adverse events after vaccination. The system can quickly detect potential safety issues with vaccines.

www.cdc.gov

VAERS accepts reports from anyone. This also allows VAERS to act as an early warning system to detect rare adverse events.

VAERS reports are submitted by anyone and sometimes lack details or contain errors.

This specific limitation has caused confusion about the publicly available data, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. In the past there have been instances where people misinterpreted reports of death following vaccination as death caused by the vaccines; that is a mistake.

Wrong.
The published report are only the "selected" ones which have had some degree of investigation.
Odds are the estimate of 6000 vaccine deaths is vastly under reported, and is NOT at all an exaggeration.
No one is injecting false reports, and it is a lie to claim "anyone" can file, or that reports are not investigated.

Since anyone can submit a report, I would think it likely it to be over reported.

No, because most people would not have the vaguest idea how to file a report, and without some valid evidence, undocumented reports are quickly culled.
For example, my 2nd Moderna shot caused the worst illness of my life, and it lasted over 3 weeks, and still causes weakness and headaches.
No one is getting a report of that fact, because there is no mechanism for doing do.
WalMart does not forward complaints.

Nonsense
A report can be filed online or on paper by the person inoculated. Also, it can be reported to the healthcare provider who gave the vaccine, their family doctor or other licensed healthcare provider. By law healthcare providers and the vaccine manufacturer are require by law to report adverse events. There is also a CDC help line to assist people submitting reports and there are provisions for the disabled.

If valid contact information is provided by the person reporting the event then the report will be entered into the database and the reporter will get an acknowledgement. Even if a description of the event is growing a third arm, it will still go into the database and once in the database it can not be edited or deleted. Submitting fraudulent information is a federal crime. The database can be accessed by anyone using the CDC Wonder VAERS system.

The data in the database may be inaccurate or incomplete. It does not contain any investigative material or comments. Displayed data does not contain personal information. A CDC spokesperson said the VAERS database is like a tip line used by investigators. Only investigators are allowed to contact patients or the reporters. Investigators will often ask the patient to submit addition information. They are instructed not provide comments on their investigation.

VAERS - Download / Upload a Writable PDF Form

vaers.hhs.gov

How to Access VAERS Data through VAERS WONDER System | Vaccine Safety | CDC

Learn how to access and understand VAERS data through VAERS WONDER, an online search tool.

www.cdc.gov

I got my Moderna vaccine at the local WalMart, and they had no idea how to report negative reactions.
Nor does anyone use the raw database.
The report from the CDC that said 6,000 vaccine deaths, said it used "selected" data.
Meaning they ignored the unverified.

Even if they DID know how to report the adverse reaction to vaers, vaers is compromised now. Vaers is deleting and manipulating the data now in order to hide the true number of vaccine deaths, kinda like the cdc did to inflate the covid deaths.

According to CDC, Vaers reports can not be delete nor edited, not even by the submitter. It's like a tips hot line once you report something it's there to stay. However anyone can access the Vaers reports which allows anyone on the net to create all kinds of support for bogus stories. Anyone can claim their report was deleted or changed. There was one of these stories on Fox recently.

The CDC is the fox guarding the henhouse. The cdc will alter their data to comply with what facebook wants.