Nature Photographers. STOP IT!

[Pogo]

making the assumption that the inner lives of animals are the same as us, or that different animals have different value to humans based on their economic and social value to humans,

Where on Earth would people get such silly ideas?

View attachment 433552

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, Disney "invented" it in frickin' 1944. SMH

 

[Canon Shooter]

What makes you think they're friends?

A wild octopus does NOT make friends with a human. Unless the human goes to it every day for weeks, months, year. An octopus does not clamp on to a human chest to be stroked. An octopus does not cling to a hand in greeting. This one did. Then she got scared when he dropped a lens and left her den. He hunted her down to find her again. She greeted him happily when he found her. Yes, he made friends with her. And let her be attacked, then let her be eaten alive as she lay dying.

Beautiful scenery. But he was an asshole for "interfering" in the first place by MAKING FRIENDS with it.

Are you familiar with Timothy Treadwell?

For 13 summers, the devout environmentalist lived among brown bears in Alaska. Year after year, he would go back and documented them, what they did, how they acted, etc. Everything was cool for 12 of those summers.

During the 13th summer, a brown bear ate him and his girlfriend.

These are wild animals. They will always be wild animals,and they will always act like wild animals.

They don't make "friends"...

 

[buttercup]

Animals don't have 'friends'. Even animals as intelligent as the octopus. They regard other animals (and people) as threats, or not threats.

^ Absolute BS.

 

[MisterBeale]

Animals don't have 'friends'. Even animals as intelligent as the octopus. They regard other animals (and people) as threats, or not threats.

^ Absolute BS.

Very compelling. Especially when we don't hear what is going on, and we hear a human song to score those scenes, making them feel human.

I remember once reading about plants, when hooked up to an ECG machine, that measures electronic impulses, and then exposed to human voices, either ones of positive encouragement, or angry voices, the plants responded in kind.

. . . so what does that tell us? Honestly? I do not know.



It is very easy for us to make assumptions upon what we see through our human eyes, or interpret data through our human experiences.


I am even more curious of what animals think, or feel about us. Or how much they have the ability to remember from day to day, year to year, or transmit those memory through their generations.

Why for instance. . . do birds and squirrels flock to me, when ever I am out in the woods, but seem to flee from a friend of mine? What do they "know," that I do not? What informs them in the world of their experiences?

I am only trying to educate folks to not assume the inner life of other species is the same as ours. The only species I believe come close ours, are our cousins, the other Great Apes.

What sensory organs do other animals have, what powers do they have, that we do not posses? What is in their experience, and is in their inner lives, that is not in ours? I have never stated in anyway, that humans are in anyway, "superior," to animals. We are just another animal among many.

Perhaps they do not have "friendship," per sea, not as we define it, or, love affairs. . . yet. . . I am inclined to think, in a world where they (at least the vast majority of them) are completely unaware, that is, "self-conscious" of their own mortality, love/friendship, may be more unconditional. IOW. . . there is a complete lack of hate, suspicion, or . . . regret. An almost telepathic awareness of evil/good. Their relationships are at once, more pure, and do not rely on quid pro quo as human relations do since we have knowledge of our self-consciousness and material mortal existence. Animals have no possessions, thus, do not live in such an economic world, and their relationships do not revolve around such things, as such, relationships are more pure, more ethereal.

Think about it. . . if you can. If you had absolutely no need of anything, no desire to gain anything from any relationship you ever had, and likewise, never had any knowledge that there was an end to your existence, how could it not affect your relationships?

I don't think most folks can possible know the minds of most animals.





. . . as it is written, ignorance is bliss.

 

[petro]

Most humans have the self awareness of a slug. We are in no position to measure the awareness of the rest of the animal world, because despite our high opinion of ourselves as a species we are nothing but animals with very little control or understanding of our own base emotions and zero understanding of what actually defines consciousness or a soul.

 

[buttercup]

Animals don't have 'friends'. Even animals as intelligent as the octopus. They regard other animals (and people) as threats, or not threats.

^ Absolute BS.

Very compelling. Especially when we don't hear what is going on, and we hear a human song to score those scenes, making them feel human.

I remember once reading about plants, when hooked up to an ECG machine, that measures electronic impulses, and then exposed to human voices, either ones of positive encouragement, or angry voices, the plants responded in kind.

. . . so what does that tell us? Honestly? I do not know.



It is very easy for us to make assumptions upon what we see through our human eyes, or interpret data through our human experiences.


I am even more curious of what animals think, or feel about us. Or how much they have the ability to remember from day to day, year to year, or transmit those memory through their generations.

Why for instance. . . do birds and squirrels flock to me, when ever I am out in the woods, but seem to flee from a friend of mine? What do they "know," that I do not? What informs them in the world of their experiences?

I am only trying to educate folks to not assume the inner life of other species is the same as ours. The only species I believe come close are our cousins, the other Great Apes.

What sensory organs do other animals have, what powers do they have, that we do not posses? What is in their experience, and is in their inner lives, that is not in ours? I have never stated in anyway, that humans are in anyway, "superior," to animals. We are just another animal among many.

Perhaps they do not have "friendship," per sea, not as we define it, or, love affairs. . . yet. . . I am inclined to think, in a world where they (at least the vast majority of them) are completely unaware, that is, "self-conscious" of their own mortality, love/friendship, may be more unconditional. IOW. . . there is a complete lack of hate, suspicion, or . . . regret. An almost telepathic awareness of evil/good. Their relationships are at once, more pure, and do not rely on quid pro quo as human relations do since we have knowledge of our self-consciousness and material mortal existence. Animals have no possessions, thus, do not live in such an economic world, and their relationships do not revolve around such things, as such, relationships are more pure, more ethereal.

Think about it. . . if you can. If you had absolutely no need of anything, no desire to gain anything from any relationship you ever had, and likewise, never had any knowledge that there was an end to your existence, how could it not affect your relationships?

I don't think most folks can possible know the minds of most animals.





. . . as it is written, ignorance is bliss.

What I'm going to say is slightly off topic to your post above, but it's in response to something you said earlier. Whenever I hear the claim that some people "anthropomorphize" animals, I always think it's ironic because that statement in and of itself shows an anthropocentric mindset. What I mean by that is you're starting off with the assumption that those qualities (intelligence, emotions, joy, friendship, etc) are human qualities. That's where people get it wrong. Those are not human qualities, they are qualities that humans possess, but not only humans.

Atheists or agnostics won't agree, but those qualities actually come from God. Christians are supposed to have a theocentric, not anthropocentric mindset. When you have a theocentric mindset and understand that animals are also a creation of God, and because of that they have value in and of themselves… apart from simply how useful they are to us, you begin to see things differently.

 

[Gracie]

Animals don't have 'friends'. Even animals as intelligent as the octopus. They regard other animals (and people) as threats, or not threats.

^ Absolute BS.

That octopus was awesome. She PLAYED with fish. Didn't catch them to eat them...she didn't catch them at all. She just sat there with all her arms up.....waving at the schools as they swam by. It was like she was dancing with them.
I cried at the end. And wanted to bitchslap the guy, but he was crying too. Still..he wasn't much of a friend to her after all.

 

[Gracie]

I remember once reading about plants, when hooked up to an ECG machine, that measures electronic impulses, and then exposed to human voices, either ones of positive encouragement, or angry voices, the plants responded in kind.

They also make that gadget bounce around when you cut them. Either for their flowers, or just to trim leaves.

 

[Gracie]

What makes you think they're friends?

A wild octopus does NOT make friends with a human. Unless the human goes to it every day for weeks, months, year. An octopus does not clamp on to a human chest to be stroked. An octopus does not cling to a hand in greeting. This one did. Then she got scared when he dropped a lens and left her den. He hunted her down to find her again. She greeted him happily when he found her. Yes, he made friends with her. And let her be attacked, then let her be eaten alive as she lay dying.

Beautiful scenery. But he was an asshole for "interfering" in the first place by MAKING FRIENDS with it.

Are you familiar with Timothy Treadwell?

For 13 summers, the devout environmentalist lived among brown bears in Alaska. Year after year, he would go back and documented them, what they did, how they acted, etc. Everything was cool for 12 of those summers.

During the 13th summer, a brown bear ate him and his girlfriend.

These are wild animals. They will always be wild animals,and they will always act like wild animals.

They don't make "friends"...

They ate him because they saw him as food. He did not "make friends" with them. He documented, photographed them. Thats what nature photographers are supposed to do....NOT pet them or stroke them after "taming" them.

 

[Canon Shooter]

What makes you think they're friends?

A wild octopus does NOT make friends with a human. Unless the human goes to it every day for weeks, months, year. An octopus does not clamp on to a human chest to be stroked. An octopus does not cling to a hand in greeting. This one did. Then she got scared when he dropped a lens and left her den. He hunted her down to find her again. She greeted him happily when he found her. Yes, he made friends with her. And let her be attacked, then let her be eaten alive as she lay dying.

Beautiful scenery. But he was an asshole for "interfering" in the first place by MAKING FRIENDS with it.

Are you familiar with Timothy Treadwell?

For 13 summers, the devout environmentalist lived among brown bears in Alaska. Year after year, he would go back and documented them, what they did, how they acted, etc. Everything was cool for 12 of those summers.

During the 13th summer, a brown bear ate him and his girlfriend.

These are wild animals. They will always be wild animals,and they will always act like wild animals.

They don't make "friends"...

They ate him because they saw him as food. He did not "make friends" with them. He documented, photographed them. Thats what nature photographers are supposed to do....NOT pet them or stroke them after "taming" them.

You can't tame a wild animal.

But, let's pretend that you can.

In the case of the octopus, I'm not sure what your beef is. It's not like he made "friends" with the octopus and then killed it. Even if the octopus was accepting of this human, it didn't stop being a creature of the wild, and it has no concept of being protected by a human.

Simply put, another wild animal killed it and ate it, and that's kinda; what happens in the wild...

 

[Gracie]

What makes you think they're friends?

A wild octopus does NOT make friends with a human. Unless the human goes to it every day for weeks, months, year. An octopus does not clamp on to a human chest to be stroked. An octopus does not cling to a hand in greeting. This one did. Then she got scared when he dropped a lens and left her den. He hunted her down to find her again. She greeted him happily when he found her. Yes, he made friends with her. And let her be attacked, then let her be eaten alive as she lay dying.

Beautiful scenery. But he was an asshole for "interfering" in the first place by MAKING FRIENDS with it.

Are you familiar with Timothy Treadwell?

For 13 summers, the devout environmentalist lived among brown bears in Alaska. Year after year, he would go back and documented them, what they did, how they acted, etc. Everything was cool for 12 of those summers.

During the 13th summer, a brown bear ate him and his girlfriend.

These are wild animals. They will always be wild animals,and they will always act like wild animals.

They don't make "friends"...

They ate him because they saw him as food. He did not "make friends" with them. He documented, photographed them. Thats what nature photographers are supposed to do....NOT pet them or stroke them after "taming" them.

You can't tame a wild animal.

But, let's pretend that you can.

In the case of the octopus, I'm not sure what your beef is. It's not like he made "friends" with the octopus and then killed it. Even if the octopus was accepting of this human, it didn't stop being a creature of the wild, and it has no concept of being protected by a human.

Simply put, another wild animal killed it and ate it, and that's kinda; what happens in the wild...

My beef was explained in the OP.
To make it more simple for you since you are having a hard time grasping this is........you have a pet cat. It was a stray but learned to trust you. As you are outside checking your mailbox, the cat follows you because that is what it got used to doing, AT YOUR ENCOURAGEMENT. A dog across the street, sees the cat, chases it and attacks it. Do you try to chase the dog off, or do you let it chew off the cats tail or leg and call it "nature"?
Don't bother to answer. You would probably call it nature.

 

[ReinyDays]

A surprising amount of wildlife photos and video comes from parks and zoos ... particularly the larger predators ... insanly dangerous to try to get close-ups of lions and tigers in the wild ... you can get great shots though two layers of steel cage much easier and safer ...

Put a hungry leopard in a big cage and start throwing monkeys in ... with some clever editing, you can get some authentic-looking and dramatic footage ... watch next time for a fairly well chopped up sequence, a series of clips ... of course the long sequences are done in the wild, but something to look for ...

Note the lifeless fish that the eagle snatches of the lake surface ... that's not normal fish behavior ... it was already dead poked on a stick jambed into the lake bottom ...

These photographers are all about making money ... whatever cruel and inhuman treatment of the animals to get that cash is worth wild ... the OP watched the video ... [ka'ching] ... the guy made money ...

 

[Carl in Michigan]

I just watched My Octopus Teacher on netflix. Beautiful scenery, great story...EXCEPT the part where he watches a shark tear off his "friend" arm. Then when the octopus dies, he lets her be picked apart by scavengers while she is still barely alive, until finally a shark gets her and drags whats left of her off to munch on.

My point is....IF they are going make "friends" with these wild animals...hug them, stroke them, the wild animal rushes to greet you....IF you make friends with them, they are now your responsibility to protect. He could have chased off the shark (small one...that focus on octopus only). He could have held her as she dies after taking care of her babies, which is what happens when they lay their eggs. All their energy and life goes into that..then they die as soon as they hatch. Well, she didn't. She was slowly eaten because she was too weak to defend herself. And did he protect his "friend"? No. Even when another shark was after her and she managed to ride its back until she could get to safety, he still did not help her. THEN DON'T FUCKING MAKE FRIENDS WITH THEM.

Same thing about that mother elephant and her baby, being filmed for days, weeks, to get to a water hole and a dust storm comes up and they film her and the baby GOING THE WRONG WAY. Of course they died. Yet, one must not "interfere with nature"? Really? They INTERFERE when THEY MAKE FRIENDS with the animal.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. I am so pissed off. And sad.

People are evil. Not much good about most.
The octopus is a very intelligent living creature. Elephants too.
This videoing thing I see on YouTube and tiktok pisses me off. In general people put their opportunity to VIDEO over saving a life.
These same people will video YOU as you lay dying rather than do anything.
People in general disgust me

 

[LuckyDuck]

In the wild, it's a (as the old saying goes) "dog eat dog world." The octopus was wild and it was in its wild environment. A shark could have gotten it when the person wasn't around. A shark's got to eat and octopus is on its menu.

 

[Blackrook]

It's stupid to worry about such things.

 

[BlueGin]

I just watched My Octopus Teacher on netflix. Beautiful scenery, great story...EXCEPT the part where he watches a shark tear off his "friend" arm. Then when the octopus dies, he lets her be picked apart by scavengers while she is still barely alive, until finally a shark gets her and drags whats left of her off to munch on.

My point is....IF they are going make "friends" with these wild animals...hug them, stroke them, the wild animal rushes to greet you....IF you make friends with them, they are now your responsibility to protect. He could have chased off the shark (small one...that focus on octopus only). He could have held her as she dies after taking care of her babies, which is what happens when they lay their eggs. All their energy and life goes into that..then they die as soon as they hatch. Well, she didn't. She was slowly eaten because she was too weak to defend herself. And did he protect his "friend"? No. Even when another shark was after her and she managed to ride its back until she could get to safety, he still did not help her. THEN DON'T FUCKING MAKE FRIENDS WITH THEM.

Same thing about that mother elephant and her baby, being filmed for days, weeks, to get to a water hole and a dust storm comes up and they film her and the baby GOING THE WRONG WAY. Of course they died. Yet, one must not "interfere with nature"? Really? They INTERFERE when THEY MAKE FRIENDS with the animal.

Grrrrrrrrrrrr. I am so pissed off. And sad.

People are evil. Not much good about most.
The octopus is a very intelligent living creature. Elephants too.
This videoing thing I see on YouTube and tiktok pisses me off. In general people put their opportunity to VIDEO over saving a life.
These same people will video YOU as you lay dying rather than do anything.
People in general disgust me

I agree 100 %

 

[G.T.]

We have a tendency to see the trials and tribulations of animals through the lens of human consciousness, and how we would feel put in their shoes, and thus, what our behavior would be, and our emotions would be in the same position. It is, a trait of highly empathetic folks, though, it tends to be prone to errors in thinking. We can't know for certain that their experience is the same as ours. They have different sensory organs, different nervous systems, and different brains.

This assumption is called, anthropomorphism. There does seem to be an element of chauvinism involved. This assumption is speciesism (related to racism.) It is a very common trait among Vegans, making the assumption that the inner lives of animals are the same as us, or that different animals have different value to humans based on their economic and social value to humans, and thus, we should treat them exactly the same as us. It is the proposition that we should extend to animals the same civil rights and civil liberties as we extend to all other people on the planet.

Anthropomorphism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Good CHRIST

Leave it to a master Contrarian to try to equate empathy with racism. Up is Down, Ignorance is Strength.

Hear that Gracie? You're a "racist" now.

That wasn't the only retarded part. I thought it was hilarious that he assumed the emotional intelligence of animals is some great mystery and isn't well studied...and took that false assumption to make a pseudointellectual rant from a tardbox.

Conspiracy prone brains don't function properly, and he's the grassy knoll meets 9/11 and the moon would go great on a sandwich.