Narcissistic Personality Disorder
- Thread starter Hellbilly
- Start date
daveman
Diamond Member
Awww, you're just mad because you took the OP personally.
Nope, I'm calling out a lame attempt at diffusion called "everybody does it".
And you'll notice I got no answers. Which is the correct answer.
It doesn't. You didn't even smell the question you quoted. Tried to baffle it with bullshit.
The question stands ---- why is Rump lying about where his father came from when the entire world including Rump himself knows differently?
More importantly what does it say about an idiot who stands in front of a camera and declares that two plus two equal five, when everybody already knows it equals four?
>> Nazi theory indeed specifically denies that such a thing as "the truth" exists. ... The implied objective of this line of thought is a nightmare world in which the Leader, or some ruling clique, controls not only the future but the past. If the Leader says of such and such an event, "It never happened" – well, it never happened. If he says that two and two are five – well, two and two are five. This prospect frightens me much more than bombs.[23] << - George Orwell, "Looking Back on the Spanish War"
(Hermann Göring had declared "If the Führer wants it, two and two makes five!"[25])
>> In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. << --- Orwell, "1984"
(Hermann Göring had declared "If the Führer wants it, two and two makes five!"[25])
>> In the end the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. It was inevitable that they should make that claim sooner or later: the logic of their position demanded it. Not merely the validity of experience, but the very existence of external reality, was tacitly denied by their philosophy. The heresy of heresies was common sense. << --- Orwell, "1984"
Care to actually address that, or would you rather swat it away as inconvenient with yet more bullshite?
Bootney Lee Farnsworth
Diamond Member
Show me one national-level politician who is not suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. Just one. There are hundreds. Show me one.
No there are not "hundreds". Simply having a large ego is not NPD. Having leadership qualities is not NPD. Seeking office, seeking a position of power, etc, is not itself evidence of NPD.
This thread is long overdue for definitions. Here are the medically accepted DSM-5 criteria ("DSM-5" means that five of the symptoms must exist for a diagnosis of NPD):
Signs and symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder and the severity of symptoms vary. People with the disorder can:
- Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
- Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
- Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
- Exaggerate achievements and talents
- Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
- Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people
- Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior
- Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations
- Take advantage of others to get what they want
- Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
- Be envious of others and believe others envy them
- Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious
- Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office
- Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment
- Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted
- React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior
- Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior
- Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change
- Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection
- Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation
Sound familiar? Let's break 'em down step by step. I'll drop some examples in to get started, anyone can copy and add as they like -- note there is much overlap ---
- Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance --- "I alone can fix it". "I'm very smart". "I have a very good brain". "I know more than the generals". "I'm really really rich".... shoving a head of state aside... walking in front of the Queen... etc etc etc
- Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration - “When you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the p***y”.... I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue and not lose votes" ... "I got more electoral votes than anybody since Reagan"... "I can sort of get away with that [walking in on teenage girls' dressing rooms]"... rambling on and on and on and on for two hours plus at CPAC .... etc etc etc
- Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it - "I will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created"... "I'm the least racist person ever".... "Nobody respects women more than me".... "Nobody builds walls like I do"...."All the women tried to flirt with me -- that's to be expected"... etc etc etc
- Exaggerate achievements and talents - see point above, as well as myriad provably false business claims including pretending to have Rump Water and Rump Steaks at a rally, both of which are extinct...playing down a "small loan from my father"... "we got more done than anybody since Truman"..... etc etc etc ---- and let's not leave out that crowning boil of pus, a fake Time Magazine cover
- Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate -- not even enough room on the internet to fill this one out. Don't forget preoccupation with "ratings" and audience sizes here.
- Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people - Also covered above, see also "shithole countries", see also disdainfully tossing rolls of paper towels at Puerto Rico, etc etc etc
- Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior - Again, hardly enough bandwidth to handle from "low energy Jeb" to "little Marco" to "who would vote for that face" to "he's not a hero; I like people who weren't captured, OK?" to "Pocahontas" to "beat the crap out of 'em" to "blood coming out of her wherever" and "bleeding badly from a facelift".... mocking a reporter's congenital disability because he wouldn't lie for him..."get that sumbitch off the field, he's fired"..."I have a very good relationship with the blacks" and "look at my African American over here, look at him!"... add your own here
- Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations - "I expect loyalty" to the head of FBI... Megyn Kelly question noted above... "little Bob Corker"... feuding with Jeff Sessions over recusal...
- Take advantage of others to get what they want - history of not paying workers. . veterans "charity" scandal... the entire Fraud University escapade summed up in its credo "You don't sell products, benefits or solutions --- you sell FEELINGS"... etc etc etc
- Have an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others - Children in cages; "fire the sumbitches"... paper towel flinging at Puerto Rico.... "his wife didn't speak, maybe she wasn't allowed to speak".... etc etc etc
- Be envious of others and believe others envy them - see above "Ï'm really rich" and "flirting with me on the set" quotes... disinviting the World Champion Philadelphia Eagles... fueds with Jeff Bezos and Tim Apple.... etc etc
- Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious HELLOOOO.....
- Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office --- yeah I think we've got our five symptoms. I don't see a box here that CAN'T be checked.
At the same time, people with narcissistic personality disorder have trouble handling anything they perceive as criticism, and they can:
- Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment -- "witch hunts".... "press is very unfair" ... .SNL is very unfair".... "bleeding badly from a facelift" and "blood coming out of her wherever".... "the failing New York Times".... "maybe he should have been roughed up" .... etc etc etc
- Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted -- again HELLOOOO.... staying up all night sending whiny tweets... massive desertions in the office, "******* moron" and unstable assessments....
- React with rage or contempt and try to belittle the other person to make themselves appear superior - again, He's not a hero, he's only a hero because he was captured".... see also "little Marco", "little Bob Corker", "Pocahontas" et al above....
- Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior -- "Obama tapppped my wires".... melting down at the impromptu Charlottesville news conference.... stalking around behind Clinton in debate.... etc etc etc
- Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change - the Charlottesville "very fine people" meltdown cited above... the record government shutdown.... inability to handle questions on bankruptcies.... inability to deal with the press....
- Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection - we can't tell, can we --- leads to the next:
- Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation - obviously this is where it all starts. Here also goes inability to admit "Tim Apple" and "Marilyn Lockheed", "covfefe", "would means woudln't", the "very fine people" meltdown and the desperate attempt to deny jerking around to mock a reporter's disability, etc etc etc
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You are a master at stating the obvious. i'll give that to ya, now, show us a single national level politician who isn't a narcissist. It's a simple ask, why do you keep avoiding it?
You are a master at stating the obvious. i'll give that to ya, now, show us a single national level politician who isn't a narcissist. It's a simple ask, why do you keep avoiding it?
It isn't my yob to prove a negative. I've just stated a positive, in the most emphatic fashion. Feel free to add to it. Or alternately to take issue with any of my examples thereof.
Or --- special offer this post only --- feel free to essplain to the class how making up fake stories about where one's father was born is not a sign of mental illness.
xyz
Gold Member
- Oct 5, 2016
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That's Montenegro's leader, Trump is a disgusting Putroll who bullies smaller countries.
xyz
Gold Member
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I had to do an orange of an investigation about the button and nipple, but it was pretty funny when I found what it was about.
So then in the geographical vicinity, he must think "Tobet" is a casino.
You are a master at stating the obvious. i'll give that to ya, now, show us a single national level politician who isn't a narcissist. It's a simple ask, why do you keep avoiding it?
It isn't my yob to prove a negative. I've just stated a positive, in the most emphatic fashion. Feel free to add to it. Or alternately to take issue with any of my examples thereof.
Or --- special offer this post only --- feel free to essplain to the class how making up fake stories about where one's father was born is not a sign of mental illness.
And the response is so what? You have described pretty much every politician who has ever lived from the Roman era to now. Like I said, you didn't do anything but further inoculate trump against your inane claims. Congrats, you played right into his hands.
Trump seems to handle criticism quite well. Your description though, does seem to fit Hillary. Good we dodged that bullet.
xyz
Gold Member
- Oct 5, 2016
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The Honorable Prime Minister of Nambia will have something to say about this.
daveman
Diamond Member
daveman
Diamond Member
Once again ---- using the first person singular pronoun has nothing to do with NPD. See post 107 for the actual diagnostic criteria.
>> Trump’s childhood seems to suggest a history of “pedestal” parenting. “You are a king,” Fred
Trump told his middle child, while
also teaching him that the world
was an unforgiving place and that
it was important to “be a killer.” Trump apparently got the message: He reportedly threw rocks
at a neighbor’s baby and bragged
about punching a music teacher in
the face. Other kids from his well-
heeled Queens neighborhood of Jamaica Estates were forbidden from playing with him, and in school
he got detention so often that it
was nicknamed “DT,” for “Donny Trump.” When his father found
his collection of switchblades, he
sent Donald upstate to New York Military Academy, where he could be controlled while also remaining aggressively alpha male. “I think his father would have fit the category [of narcissistic],” says Michael D’Antonio, author of The Truth About Trump. “I think his mother probably would have. And I even think his paternal grandfather did as well. These are very driven, very ambitious people.”
Viewed through the lens of pathology, Trump’s behavior – from military-school reports that he was too competitive to have close friends to his recent impromptu press conference, where he seemed to revel in the hour and a half he spent center stage, spouting paranoia and insults – can be seen as a constant quest for narcissistic supply. Certainly few have gone after fame (a veritable conveyor belt of narcissistic supply) with such single-mindedness as Trump, constantly upping the ante to gain more exposure. Not content with being the heir apparent of his father’s vast outer-borough fortune, he spent his twenties moving the Trump Organization into the spotlight of Manhattan, where his buildings needed to be the biggest, the grandest, the tallest (in the pursuit of which he skipped floors in the numbering to make them seem higher). Not content to inflict the city with a succession of eyesores bearing his name in outsize letters, he had to buy up more Atlantic City casinos than anyone else, as well as a fleet of 727s (which he also slapped with his name) and the world’s third-biggest yacht (despite professing to not like boats). Meanwhile, to make sure that none of this escaped notice, he sometimes pretended to be his own publicist, peppering the press with unsolicited information about his business conquests and his sexual prowess.
... From his business entanglements to his preference for the rally format, Trump’s way of putting himself out in the world is not meant to make friends; it’s meant to assert his dominance. The reported fear and trembling among his White House staff aligns well with his long-standing habit of hiring two people for the same job and letting them battle it out for his favor. His tendency to hire women was spun as a sign of enlightenment on the campaign trail, but those who’ve worked with him sensed that it had more to do with finding women less threatening than men (a reason that’s also been posited as to why Ivanka is his favorite child). Trump has a lengthy record of stiffing his workers and dodging his creditors. And nothing could be more disagreeable than the way he’s dealt with detractors over the years, filing hundreds of frivolous lawsuits, sending scathing letters (like the one he sent to New York Times columnist Gail Collins with her photo covered by the words “The face of a dog!”), and, once it was invented, using Twitter as an instrument of malice that could provide immediate narcissistic supply via comments and retweets. In fact, while studies have found that Twitter and other social-media outlets do not actually foster narcissism, they have turned much of the Internet into a narcissist’s playground, providing immediate gratification for someone who needs a public and instantaneous way to build up their false self.
.... Another problem for narcissists on the more extreme end of the spectrum is that the skills needed to get elected are not, and have never been, identical to the skills needed to govern. “Just because you get a big job doesn’t mean that you can’t have a psychiatric disability that interferes with your ability to confidently perform it,” points out Gartner. Individuals with NPD are notoriously bad at regulating their behavior or tailoring it to the situation at hand. “Every situation feels like a competition to win,” explains Aaron Pincus, a professor of psychology at Penn State who researches pathological narcissism. “Every situation feels like a stage in which to show people that ‘I’m superior, better, and they’re going to admire me for it.'
... This makes narcissists particularly vulnerable to sycophants, or at least those who feed their narcissistic supply by telling them what they want to hear. Whether Steve Bannon actually is the evil mastermind he’s been made out to be doesn’t change the fact that even Republicans seem wary of Trump’s susceptibility to him. Unelected officials gaining power through a destabilizing characteristic of a mental disorder is the sort of thing our political system was set up to combat. “It’s a sign, actually, of how severely we need functioning parties,” Wilentz says. “Because when they work, they are in fact a check on the emergence of this kind of character. You can’t get where Trump is now in a functioning party system. It took this particular political crisis, which was a political crisis, to produce a president who has this trait. Normally, we can weed them out.”
For many in the mental-health field, the most troubling aspect of Trump’s personality is his loose grasp of fact and fiction. When narcissism veers into NPD, it can lead to delusions, an alternate reality where the narcissist remains on top despite clear evidence to the contrary. “He’s extremely quick, like nanoseconds quick, to discern anything that could conceivably threaten his dominance,” says biographer Gwenda Blair, who wrote The Trumps: Three Generations of Builders and a President. “He’s on it. Anything that he senses – and he has very sharp senses – that could suggest that he is anything except 200 percent total winner, he’s got to stomp it out immediately. So having those reports, for example, that he did not win the popular vote? He can’t take that in. There has to be another explanation. It has to have been stolen. It has to have been some illegal voters. It can’t be the case that he lost. That’s not thinkable.”
.... “When it comes to negative information about themselves, narcissists devalue it and they denigrate it and they don’t accept it,” says Pincus. “They’ll push it away, they’ll distort it, they’ll blame it on somebody else, they’ll lie about it, because they need to see that superior, ideal image of themselves, and they can’t tolerate the idea that they have any flaws or imperfections or somebody else might be better than them at something.” This not only means that Trump has no qualms about lying (a PolitiFact tally of candidates’ statements during the 2016 campaign found that only 2.5 percent of the claims made by Trump were wholly true and that 78 percent were mostly false, false or “pants on fire”), but it also means that he will continue to cater to his minority base, which, Pincus continues, “happen to have his ear and tell him he’s great. Then he’s shocked when courts and states have a different opinion, and he has to denigrate the courts and the states rather than question his own position.” It means that he will continually recast negative events in his favor: “All four corporate bankruptcies, were they a sign of failure for him during the debates?” asks Blair. “No, they were a sign he was smart.” And he will continue to double-down on delusions, like having been wiretapped by Obama, despite all evidence to the contrary. << --- Pathological Narcissism: Key to Rump's Behaviour?
Viewed through the lens of pathology, Trump’s behavior – from military-school reports that he was too competitive to have close friends to his recent impromptu press conference, where he seemed to revel in the hour and a half he spent center stage, spouting paranoia and insults – can be seen as a constant quest for narcissistic supply. Certainly few have gone after fame (a veritable conveyor belt of narcissistic supply) with such single-mindedness as Trump, constantly upping the ante to gain more exposure. Not content with being the heir apparent of his father’s vast outer-borough fortune, he spent his twenties moving the Trump Organization into the spotlight of Manhattan, where his buildings needed to be the biggest, the grandest, the tallest (in the pursuit of which he skipped floors in the numbering to make them seem higher). Not content to inflict the city with a succession of eyesores bearing his name in outsize letters, he had to buy up more Atlantic City casinos than anyone else, as well as a fleet of 727s (which he also slapped with his name) and the world’s third-biggest yacht (despite professing to not like boats). Meanwhile, to make sure that none of this escaped notice, he sometimes pretended to be his own publicist, peppering the press with unsolicited information about his business conquests and his sexual prowess.
... From his business entanglements to his preference for the rally format, Trump’s way of putting himself out in the world is not meant to make friends; it’s meant to assert his dominance. The reported fear and trembling among his White House staff aligns well with his long-standing habit of hiring two people for the same job and letting them battle it out for his favor. His tendency to hire women was spun as a sign of enlightenment on the campaign trail, but those who’ve worked with him sensed that it had more to do with finding women less threatening than men (a reason that’s also been posited as to why Ivanka is his favorite child). Trump has a lengthy record of stiffing his workers and dodging his creditors. And nothing could be more disagreeable than the way he’s dealt with detractors over the years, filing hundreds of frivolous lawsuits, sending scathing letters (like the one he sent to New York Times columnist Gail Collins with her photo covered by the words “The face of a dog!”), and, once it was invented, using Twitter as an instrument of malice that could provide immediate narcissistic supply via comments and retweets. In fact, while studies have found that Twitter and other social-media outlets do not actually foster narcissism, they have turned much of the Internet into a narcissist’s playground, providing immediate gratification for someone who needs a public and instantaneous way to build up their false self.
.... Another problem for narcissists on the more extreme end of the spectrum is that the skills needed to get elected are not, and have never been, identical to the skills needed to govern. “Just because you get a big job doesn’t mean that you can’t have a psychiatric disability that interferes with your ability to confidently perform it,” points out Gartner. Individuals with NPD are notoriously bad at regulating their behavior or tailoring it to the situation at hand. “Every situation feels like a competition to win,” explains Aaron Pincus, a professor of psychology at Penn State who researches pathological narcissism. “Every situation feels like a stage in which to show people that ‘I’m superior, better, and they’re going to admire me for it.'
... This makes narcissists particularly vulnerable to sycophants, or at least those who feed their narcissistic supply by telling them what they want to hear. Whether Steve Bannon actually is the evil mastermind he’s been made out to be doesn’t change the fact that even Republicans seem wary of Trump’s susceptibility to him. Unelected officials gaining power through a destabilizing characteristic of a mental disorder is the sort of thing our political system was set up to combat. “It’s a sign, actually, of how severely we need functioning parties,” Wilentz says. “Because when they work, they are in fact a check on the emergence of this kind of character. You can’t get where Trump is now in a functioning party system. It took this particular political crisis, which was a political crisis, to produce a president who has this trait. Normally, we can weed them out.”
For many in the mental-health field, the most troubling aspect of Trump’s personality is his loose grasp of fact and fiction. When narcissism veers into NPD, it can lead to delusions, an alternate reality where the narcissist remains on top despite clear evidence to the contrary. “He’s extremely quick, like nanoseconds quick, to discern anything that could conceivably threaten his dominance,” says biographer Gwenda Blair, who wrote The Trumps: Three Generations of Builders and a President. “He’s on it. Anything that he senses – and he has very sharp senses – that could suggest that he is anything except 200 percent total winner, he’s got to stomp it out immediately. So having those reports, for example, that he did not win the popular vote? He can’t take that in. There has to be another explanation. It has to have been stolen. It has to have been some illegal voters. It can’t be the case that he lost. That’s not thinkable.”
.... “When it comes to negative information about themselves, narcissists devalue it and they denigrate it and they don’t accept it,” says Pincus. “They’ll push it away, they’ll distort it, they’ll blame it on somebody else, they’ll lie about it, because they need to see that superior, ideal image of themselves, and they can’t tolerate the idea that they have any flaws or imperfections or somebody else might be better than them at something.” This not only means that Trump has no qualms about lying (a PolitiFact tally of candidates’ statements during the 2016 campaign found that only 2.5 percent of the claims made by Trump were wholly true and that 78 percent were mostly false, false or “pants on fire”), but it also means that he will continue to cater to his minority base, which, Pincus continues, “happen to have his ear and tell him he’s great. Then he’s shocked when courts and states have a different opinion, and he has to denigrate the courts and the states rather than question his own position.” It means that he will continually recast negative events in his favor: “All four corporate bankruptcies, were they a sign of failure for him during the debates?” asks Blair. “No, they were a sign he was smart.” And he will continue to double-down on delusions, like having been wiretapped by Obama, despite all evidence to the contrary. << --- Pathological Narcissism: Key to Rump's Behaviour?
daveman
Diamond Member
Are you kidding? This one speech by Obama satisfies the first three points:
- Have an exaggerated sense of self-importance
- Have a sense of entitlement and require constant, excessive admiration
- Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
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