Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

[HistoryBefore67]

I'm still trying to figure out how those quotes are "out of context."

Does the anti-Israel brigade believe that each of them was followed by "April fools!"?

 

[Hossfly]

five or six out of context quotes, no matter by whom, prove nothing.

there was a time, when most of the world's scientists believed the sun revolved around the earth. the earth did not begin to revolve around the sun just because keppler and galileo said it did.

Put up or shut up. If those quotes are taken out of context to change their meaning or intent, then put it up, otherwise shut the anti semetic pie hole with the "Jews have been outcasts" garbage that is straight out of some Islamist or neo Nazi rally.

i find it a bit ironic, although certainly not entirely unexpected from a person of your caliber that, on a topic questioning the accuracy and context of some quotes you have produced, you would respond by taking one of my posts out of context and twist it to serve your ends.

here is exactly what i said..."why are jews always the outcasts, or so they allege, in every community to which they move..."

the "they" in the above does not refer to "some islamist or neo-nazi rally" but instead to organisations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Anti-Defamation League, to name a couple among many, who see swastikas in children's galoshes ads and nazi storm troopers in cloud formations.

bluster may serve briefly as a substitute for intelligence but it wears thin quickly. yours is become quite threadbare.

You in the market for scapegoats now, Seal? It appears that when people need a scapegoat, they always choose one of the smallest groups in the world; and since the Jews are small in number compared to those in other religions, they seem to be the favorite scapegoats. As far as seeing swastikas, do you happen to know who is responsible for this, Seal? Perhaps some NeoNazis or skinheads drove down from the Seattle area.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/los_an...valley_home_vandalized_with_neo_nazi_graffiti

 

[Coyote]

I'm still trying to figure out how those quotes are "out of context."

Does the anti-Israel brigade believe that each of them was followed by "April fools!"?

Perhaps this post will help you understand: http://www.usmessageboard.com/7463077-post98.html

The quotes are partial, with nothing presented as to who the audience was, what it was in response to, the surrounding events and dialogue - or even whether the quotes were altered. I'm not saying they are necessarily "wrong" but there is nothing to judge them by. It's like people who list a whole bunch of out of context quote snippets from the founding father's in order to prove that the US was (or was not) meant to be a Christian nation.

 

[Roudy]

Again I say, put up or shut up: if those quotes were taken out of context, go ahead and show us. I just don't see how those individuals making those quotes could have meant it any different than the quotes represent.

 

[Coyote]

Again I say, put up or shut up: if those quotes were taken out of context, go ahead and show us. I just don't see how those individuals making those quotes could have meant it any different than the quotes represent.

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

 

[Roudy]

I'm still trying to figure out how those quotes are "out of context."

Does the anti-Israel brigade believe that each of them was followed by "April fools!"?

Ha ha ha. Exactly. Did this Syrian Arab leader then go ahead and say, "well actually there is a Palestine, I didn't mean that"

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

or maybe this PLO leader was smoking Hashish at the time he said this:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

 

[Roudy]

Again I say, put up or shut up: if those quotes were taken out of context, go ahead and show us. I just don't see how those individuals making those quotes could have meant it any different than the quotes represent.

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

 

[Coyote]

Again I say, put up or shut up: if those quotes were taken out of context, go ahead and show us. I just don't see how those individuals making those quotes could have meant it any different than the quotes represent.

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

My intent is not really to debunk them - but to state that trying to make a point by using quotes without context is senseless. The 3 I looked for can't even be found other than on anti-Palestinian propaganda sites so how can they be debunked/critiqued or agreed with?

You laugh at the need for context yet, you cry context when it's an anti-Israeli quote.

Context matters if you truly want to have a discussion. That's my opinion and I have a right to it

 

[Roudy]

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

My intent is not really to debunk them - but to state that trying to make a point by using quotes without context is senseless. The 3 I looked for can't even be found other than on anti-Palestinian propaganda sites so how can they be debunked/critiqued or agreed with?

You laugh at the need for context yet, you cry context when it's an anti-Israeli quote.

Context matters if you truly want to have a discussion. That's my opinion and I have a right to it

You came out of the gate with your first post in this thread, claiming the quotes must be wrong or out of context. So who's crying now? if you think you have a right to context look for it yourself. They seem to be pretty convincing to those who do not have a bias like you.

 

[Coyote]

Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples .... well, here's another expressed by an author who is rather controversial. And it brings me to ask again - what difference does it make one way or the other whether a people existed a thousand years ago a hundred years ago or one year ago? The sole purpose of such arguments is to marginalize them and any claims they might have despite have lived in the area for generations.

The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sand's explanation of the birth of the "myth" of a Jewish people as a group with a common, ethnic origin has been summarized as follows: "[a]t a certain stage in the 19th century intellectuals of Jewish origin in Germany, influenced by the folk character of German nationalism, took upon themselves the task of inventing a people "retrospectively," out of a thirst to create a modern Jewish people. From historian Heinrich Graetz on, Jewish historians began to draw the history of Judaism as the history of a nation that had been a kingdom, became a wandering people and ultimately turned around and went back to its birthplace."[16]

In this, Sand writes, they were similar to other nationalist movements in Europe at the time that sought the reassurance of a Golden Age in their past to prove they have existed as a separate people since the beginnings of history. Jewish people found theirs in what he calls "the mythical Kingdom of David". Before this invention, he says, Jews thought of themselves as Jews because they shared a common religion, not a common ethnic background.[16]

For arguments for/against and criticism look in the link.

 

[Coyote]

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

My intent is not really to debunk them - but to state that trying to make a point by using quotes without context is senseless. The 3 I looked for can't even be found other than on anti-Palestinian propaganda sites so how can they be debunked/critiqued or agreed with?

You laugh at the need for context yet, you cry context when it's an anti-Israeli quote.

Context matters if you truly want to have a discussion. That's my opinion and I have a right to it

You came out of the gate with your first post in this thread, claiming the quotes must be wrong or out of context. So who's crying now? if you think you have a right to context look for it yourself. They seem to be pretty convincing to those who do not have a bias like you.

Go back and read my first post:

What you've got is a list of partial quotes without any context. What sort of source is Im Nin'alu

How is that different than the contextless anti-Israeli quotes we see about wiping out Palestinians?

The Palestinians exist here and now - what difference does it make how they came to be or how recent?

What is the arbritary date by which a people can become a people?

I did not claim they were wrong or out of context - I said they had NO context and were only partial quotes.

Where have I provided a list of partial quotes out of context to prove a point?

 

[Roudy]

Perhaps you didn't look properly and what you found didn't suit your prejudices?

Philip Khuri Hitti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hitti was educated at an American Presbyterian mission school at Suq al-Gharb and at the American University of Beirut. After graduating in 1908 he taught at the American University of Beirut before moving to Columbia University where he taught Semitic languages and got his PhD in 1915. After World War I he returned to American University of Beirut and taught there until 1926. In February 1926 he was offered a Chair at Princeton University which he held until he retired in 1954. He was both Professor of Semitic Literature and Chairman of the Department of Oriental Languages. After formal retirement he accepted a position at Harvard. He also taught in the summer schools at the University of Utah and George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He subsequently held a research position at the University of Minnesota. Philip Hitti almost single handedly created the discipline of Arabic Studies in the United States.

In 1944 before a U. S. House committee, Hitti gave testimony in support of the view that there was no historical justification for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. His testimony was reprinted in the Princeton Herald. In response, Albert Einstein and his friend and colleague Erich Kahler jointly replied in the same newspaper with their counter-arguments. Hitti then published a response and Einstein and Kahler concluded the debate in the Princeton Herald with their second response.[1] In 1945 Hitti served as an adviser to the Iraqi delegation at the San Francisco Conference which established the United Nations. In 1946, Hitti was the first Arab-American witness at the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry on Palestine. Bartley Crum, an American member of the committee, recalled that

Hitti.. explained that there was actually no such entity as Palestine- never had been; it was historically part of Syria, and "the Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us because by smearing the walls of classrooms with maps of Palestine, they associate it with the Jews in the minds of the average American and Englishman"... He asserted that Zionism.. was an imposition on the Arabs of alien way of life which they resented and to which they would never submit.[2]
Hitti was a distant relative of Christa McAuliffe, a teacher-astronaut who was killed in the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster on January 28, 1986.[3] McAuliffe's mother was Hitti's niece.

 

[sealadaigh]

I'm still trying to figure out how those quotes are "out of context."

Does the anti-Israel brigade believe that each of them was followed by "April fools!"?

it is kind of like this, as an example...

some disreputable charletons, usually jews, often resort to a poor translation of an interview that zahir muhsein had in 1977 with truow, a dutch newspaper, claiming he said the following in their attempts to deny the existence of the palestinians...

"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan."

what muhsein actually said in that interview was...

Between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences. We are all part of ONE people, the Arab nation. Look, I have family members with Palestinian, Lebanese, Jordanian and Syrian citizenship. We are ONE people. Just for political reasons we carefully underwrite our Palestinian identity. Because it is of national interest for the Arabs to advocate the existence of Palestinians to balance Zionism. Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity.

A separate Palestinian entity needs to fight for the national interest in the then remaining occupied territories. The Jordanian government cannot speak for Palestinians in Israel, Lebanon or Syria. Jordan is a state with specific borders. It cannot lay claim on - for instance - Haifa or Jaffa, while I AM entitled to Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem en Beersheba. Jordan can only speak for Jordanians and the Palestinians in Jordan. The Palestinian state would be entitled to represent all Palestinians in the Arab world en elsewhere. Once we have accomplished all of our rights in all of Palestine, we shouldn't postpone the unification of Jordan and Palestine for one second.

Zuheir Mohsen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

the dispeputable, lying clowns, again usually jews although lately joined by evangelical christians,, twist the meanings of his words and try to make the claim that muhsein is somehow denying the rights of the palestinian people or that they, as a people, do not exist when that is not the case at all. instead he is including them in a broader scope of his ultimate goal of a pan-arab nationalism. the first quote attributed to him above, is twisted and out of context and used by lazy propagandists who fail to actually check the facts. some are such liars they will even continue to use that quote, even when apprised of a more accurate translation of the quote in its entirety.

i suppose a very simple analogy would be to say that if i, as a citisen of washington state, said "we are all americans". that in no way would mean i am for abrogating my rights as a citisen of the evergreen state ot claiming that washingtonians do not exist.

 

[HistoryBefore67]

You can't spin away Muhsein's statement.

Even you acknowledge that he said: "Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity."

He admitted that the "Palestinian identity" was made up to fight against Israel.

Deal with it.

 

[Coyote]

Off topic! Perhaps you didn't look properly and what you found didn't suit your prejudices?

Topic title: Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

Philip Khuri Hitti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hitti was educated at an American Presbyterian mission school at Suq al-Gharb and at the American University of Beirut. After graduating in 1908 he taught at the American University of Beirut before moving to Columbia University where he taught Semitic languages and got his PhD in 1915. After World War I he returned to American University of Beirut and taught there until 1926. In February 1926 he was offered a Chair at Princeton University which he held until he retired in 1954. He was both Professor of Semitic Literature and Chairman of the Department of Oriental Languages. After formal retirement he accepted a position at Harvard. He also taught in the summer schools at the University of Utah and George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He subsequently held a research position at the University of Minnesota. Philip Hitti almost single handedly created the discipline of Arabic Studies in the United States.
In 1944 before a U. S. House committee, Hitti gave testimony in support of the view that there was no historical justification for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. His testimony was reprinted in the Princeton Herald. In response, Albert Einstein and his friend and colleague Erich Kahler jointly replied in the same newspaper with their counter-arguments. Hitti then published a response and Einstein and Kahler concluded the debate in the Princeton Herald with their second response.[1] In 1945 Hitti served as an adviser to the Iraqi delegation at the San Francisco Conference which established the United Nations. In 1946, Hitti was the first Arab-American witness at the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry on Palestine. Bartley Crum, an American member of the committee, recalled that Hitti.. explained that there was actually no such entity as Palestine- never had been; it was historically part of Syria, and "the Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us because by smearing the walls of classrooms with maps of Palestine, they associate it with the Jews in the minds of the average American and Englishman"... He asserted that Zionism.. was an imposition on the Arabs of alien way of life which they resented and to which they would never submit.[2]
Hitti was a distant relative of Christa McAuliffe, a teacher-astronaut who was killed in the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster on January 28, 1986.[3] McAuliffe's mother was Hitti's niece.

Why would I object to this?

 

[sealadaigh]

Again I say, put up or shut up: if those quotes were taken out of context, go ahead and show us. I just don't see how those individuals making those quotes could have meant it any different than the quotes represent.

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

feel free at anytime to offer your definition of "legitimate" and then, provide the sites where you got those quotes.

i can produce info from "legitimate" websites that says we have been placed on this planet from aliens from outer space.

 

[Roudy]

So according to Muhsain, Jordan is Palestine now, and between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese there are no differences, and once the greedy Arabs which ended up with all the land in the region also take over all of Israel they will unite it with Jordan. In other words the term Palestinian is just a temporary tactic and a fraud to use against Israel. Thanks for clearing that "context" up buddy. Ha ha ha. You just put your foot further in your mouth.

"Usually Jews". What a rabid anti Semite. LOLOLOL

 

[Roudy]

Off topic! Perhaps you didn't look properly and what you found didn't suit your prejudices?

Topic title: Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

Philip Khuri Hitti - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hitti was educated at an American Presbyterian mission school at Suq al-Gharb and at the American University of Beirut. After graduating in 1908 he taught at the American University of Beirut before moving to Columbia University where he taught Semitic languages and got his PhD in 1915. After World War I he returned to American University of Beirut and taught there until 1926. In February 1926 he was offered a Chair at Princeton University which he held until he retired in 1954. He was both Professor of Semitic Literature and Chairman of the Department of Oriental Languages. After formal retirement he accepted a position at Harvard. He also taught in the summer schools at the University of Utah and George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He subsequently held a research position at the University of Minnesota. Philip Hitti almost single handedly created the discipline of Arabic Studies in the United States.
In 1944 before a U. S. House committee, Hitti gave testimony in support of the view that there was no historical justification for a Jewish homeland in Palestine. His testimony was reprinted in the Princeton Herald. In response, Albert Einstein and his friend and colleague Erich Kahler jointly replied in the same newspaper with their counter-arguments. Hitti then published a response and Einstein and Kahler concluded the debate in the Princeton Herald with their second response.[1] In 1945 Hitti served as an adviser to the Iraqi delegation at the San Francisco Conference which established the United Nations. In 1946, Hitti was the first Arab-American witness at the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry on Palestine. Bartley Crum, an American member of the committee, recalled that Hitti.. explained that there was actually no such entity as Palestine- never had been; it was historically part of Syria, and "the Sunday schools have done a great deal of harm to us because by smearing the walls of classrooms with maps of Palestine, they associate it with the Jews in the minds of the average American and Englishman"... He asserted that Zionism.. was an imposition on the Arabs of alien way of life which they resented and to which they would never submit.[2]
Hitti was a distant relative of Christa McAuliffe, a teacher-astronaut who was killed in the Space Shuttle Challenger disaster on January 28, 1986.[3] McAuliffe's mother was Hitti's niece.

Why would I object to this?

How does it change the meaning? He said there is no Palestinian people or entity ever. It's a Zionist invention. Aren't you the one that keeps telling us about this historic Palestinian people with all sorts of rights to land that the "Jews stole"? Here's one Arab historian that disagrees with you totally. No objections? Great. Ha ha ha ha.

 

[Roudy]

How can I when I can't even locate the complete quote as I pointed out in a previous post.

Your intent is to debunk them and you can't. They are available as is on various legitimate websites. Why is it hard for you to accept them as is?

feel free at anytime to offer your definition of "legitimate" and then, provide the sites where you got those quotes.

i can produce info from "legitimate" websites that says we have been placed on this planet from aliens from outer space.

I don't need to, you're doing a great job of it. Keep up the good work.

 

[sealadaigh]

You can't spin away Muhsein's statement.

Even you acknowledge that he said: "Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity exists only for tactical reasons. The establishment of a Palestinian state is a new tool to continue the fight against Israel and for Arab unity."

He admitted that the "Palestinian identity" was made up to fight against Israel.

Deal with it.

i deal with it quite well...and you are twisting what i said and taking it out of context, as you have done with muhsein.

i expect it of you.

you really do need to try to understand the meaning of what is said...and the meaning of what is said has a context, and so does the truth.