Zone1 My thoughts on Torquemada (at this point in my research)

[nomadic5]

My thoughts on Torquemada (at this point in my research)

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I have been reading up on this guy.

So far I don't have a problem with Queen Isabel and others trying to keep the Muslim influence to a minimum in their society. I am still reading but there's no way I will condone burning people at the stake. My God, there are better ways to get rid of problems, to say the least.

Still, we can all look around and see just how dangerous it is for society to accept... (fill in the blanks)

We see how accepting homosexuality has adversely affected society

We see how butchering children with no law to interfere... ditto

We see how the pervs run all over the Christians and try to steal their children by sexualizing them and indoctrinating them

So we have gone to the other extreme from Queen Isabel and the Catholic monarchs.

Maybe democracies have their down side. Yes, I know the US is not a democracy, but some people think it is ...

 

[excalibur]

Protestants burned far, far more people at the stake than the Inquisition ever did.

 

[nomadic5]

Protestants burned far, far more people at the stake than the Inquisition ever did.

Wow... wasn't expecting that. I had forgotten about that, but it is true.

thanks for the contribution.

Others are just going to say: You're such a moron to believe as you do and blah blah blah...

For one the witch trials in Salem, Mass... Protestants.

In England not long after Luther broke with the CC, protestants would hunt down priests who celebrated Mass... Edmund Campion was a martyr but there were others whose names escape me at this time..

 

[Polishprince]

It took almost 8 centuries for Spain to expel the Moorish invaders. Ferdinand and Isabel wanted to make sure the job was done and figured that Senor Torquemada's inquisition was the way to go.

Too extreme? Maybe, but they thought it was necessary to bring the reconquisto to a conclusiono.

 

[nomadic5]

It took almost 8 centuries for Spain to expel the Moorish invaders. Ferdinand and Isabel wanted to make sure the job was done and figured that Senor Torquemada's inquisition was the way to go.

Too extreme? Maybe, but they thought it was necessary to bring the reconquisto to a conclusiono.

I'm still learning about the situation but

again, the US has gone to the other extreme, just accepting everything anyone wants to do

What u believe leads to waht you do

 

[nomadic5]

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Tomas de Torquemada

Grand Inquisitor of Spain (1420-1498)

www.newadvent.org

from that site: [highlighting is mine]

Much has been written of the inhuman cruelty of Torquemada. Llorente computes that during Torquemada's office (1483-98) 8800 suffered death by fire and 9,654 were punished in other ways (Histoire de l'Inquisition, IV, 252). These figures are highly exaggerated, as has been conclusively proved by Hefele (Cardinal Ximenes, ch. xviii), Gams (Kirchengeschichte von Spanien, III, II, 68-76), and many others. Even the Jewish historian Graetz contents himself with stating that "under the first Inquisitor Torquemada, in the course of fourteen years (1485-1498) at least 2000 Jews were burnt as impenitent sinners" ("History of the Jews", Philadelphia, 1897, IV, 356). Most historians hold with the Protestant Peschel (Das Zeitalter der Entdeckungen, Stuttgart, 1877, pp. 119 sq.) that the number of persons burnt from 1481 to 1504, when Isabella died, was about 2000. Whether Torquemada's ways of ferreting out and punishing heretics were justifiable is a matter that has to be decided not only by comparison with the penal standard of the fifteenth century, but also, and chiefly, by an inquiry into their necessity for the preservation of Christian Spain. The contemporary Spanish chronicler, Sebastian de Olmedo (Chronicon magistrorum generalium Ordinis Prædicatorum, fol. 80-81) calls Torquemada "the hammer of heretics, the light of Spain, the saviour of his country, the honour of his order".

Me:

First of all, that's a Catholic site, but I do NOT agree with that last paragraph. You have to square what Torq did with what JESUS would have done (or had people do).... regardless of those other concerns mentioned.

As you will notice, there is no SAINT Torquemada

The Catholic Church (the real one) would never canonize someone who advocated and/or himself burnt people at the stake.

Too bad today we have the opposite extreme problem: The Muslims, who believe in killing those who don't believe as they do (Don't argue: I've read it in the Koran), are taking over whole countries, demanding that their cruel Sharia laws be given equality with the Judeo-Christian laws already in place (France, etc)

 

[nomadic5]

I talked to someone, a Sede Catholic, about this burning people at the stake thing that happend under Torquemada because they were fake converts or non-Catholics in a Catholic monarchy

He said that the fire represents or signifies the fires of hell

OK, I figured that before he said that.

But still, would Jesus do that? Whatever happened to that WWJD thing?

The person proven to be a heretic was given chances to recant and save his life, but still....

The person talking to me about this acts like the Catholic Church was perfect before Vatican II came along. He's never explicitly said that but ...

Well, Vatican II was the worst thing IMO to happen to the CC, even worse than the arch-heretic Luther but

I guess the point in burning people at the stake was to make them repent and know what the fires of Hell are like

but that does not seem sufficient to justify such a punishment. A long prison sentence.. maybe one meal a day.. would seem much better

 

[nomadic5]

you' think the antiCatholics would comment at this thread mor than they do

I mean, isn't Torquemada one of hte main reasons they hate Catholics? Oh... wait... I guess they just hate the CC, not individual Cs...

Right....