My Condo Dilemma

[Rigby5]

No, but if I did so, I'd have to drop $10K in repairs to get market value, as opposed to the investors, who are paying my 20% above market value to buy as-is. Not to mention having to pay a cut to a realtor to sell it.




Did the whole landlord thing before. I'd rather listen to ten hours of Trump Speeches or take a bath in a tub full of scorpions.



Yes, and I'd also have to deal with all the landlord drama. Hard pass.




First, in ten years, I plan to be retired and not living in this state anymore.

Second, as I've said, I've done the landlord thing in the past. You have to deal with tenants, and even good tenants are a pain.

I could imagine still being a tenant in the last year where the government told renters they could squat for free.

I often have out of state rental properties.
I then just hire a rental agency, at about 10%.
No problem.
I also would never spend $10k on repairs.
That is when you hire a contractor who then hires the actual workers and charges triple
Just watch the videos and do it yourself or hire yourself based on recommendations.

 

[JoeB131]

I often have out of state rental properties.
I then just hire a rental agency, at about 10%.
No problem.
I also would never spend $10k on repairs.
That is when you hire a contractor who then hires the actual workers and charges triple
Just watch the videos and do it yourself or hire yourself based on recommendations.

That sounds... actually kind of retarded.

Dude, we explained the situtation here. The Condo association voted to take the deal, even if I didn't want to sell, I don't have a choice.

So spend $10,000 for repairs, pay a realtor to take a cut, to get market value...

Or... Get 25,000 over market value and not have to lift a finger.

This isn't complicated.

 

[Rigby5]

That sounds... actually kind of retarded.

Dude, we explained the situation here. The Condo association voted to take the deal, even if I didn't want to sell, I don't have a choice.

So spend $10,000 for repairs, pay a realtor to take a cut, to get market value...

Or... Get 25,000 over market value and not have to lift a finger.

This isn't complicated.

Of course it is too late for your current situation.
I was just correcting misconceptions for future reference.

You NEVER spend $10k for repairs.
Not only is it easy to find unlicensed and unbonded people for about a tenth that, but you don't want to repair before a sale.
They buyer wants to do their own upgrades their way, and vastly prefer if previous owners do NOT do repairs.
While realtors ask for 6%, they often get more than that for you.
But FISBO (For Sale By Owner), is not that hard to do either.
And you have no idea what market value is right now, so it is unlikely to be actually $25k over market value.
It is accelerating rapidly.
I know of several properties that recently sold for twice their purchase price, after only a few years.
It is an extreme seller's market right now.
My point is you likely are going to be disappointed by how much you are going to have to pay for your replacement property.
I am just saying all the things you mentioned are not entirely accurate.
They are preconceptions.
But to each his own.
I would never have bought a condo to start with.
They have poor appreciation compared to individual properties, except for in a few big cities like NYC, LA, and SF.

 

[JoeB131]

Of course it is too late for your current situation.
I was just correcting misconceptions for future reference.

You NEVER spend $10k for repairs.

Okay, buddy. Obviously, you haven't done any major repairs recently.

I need to remodel both the kitchen and bath... 10K was generous.

But FISBO (For Sale By Owner), is not that hard to do either.

Sure, if you want to wait forever to do it... which I don't.

And you have no idea what market value is right now, so it is unlikely to be actually $25k over market value.
It is accelerating rapidly.

Actually, I know exactly what the sale value is because I know what the last five units of similiar value sold for in this same complex. But do go on telling me my business.

And you have no idea what market value is right now, so it is unlikely to be actually $25k over market value.
It is accelerating rapidly.
I know of several properties that recently sold for twice their purchase price, after only a few years.
It is an extreme seller's market right now.
My point is you likely are going to be disappointed by how much you are going to have to pay for your replacement property.

Your point is at the top of your head. I've been looking at properties for the last two weeks. I'm kind of fine with what I'm looking at. I could buy an equivalent property for less than what I am getting for this one. I actually want better, because I need an extra bedroom. And I'm at a point in my life where I can afford better.

The reality is, housing never really recovered fully from Bush's Recession.

I am just saying all the things you mentioned are not entirely accurate.
They are preconceptions.
But to each his own.

You don't live in my market, and you are kind of talking out of your ass.... but that's fine, to each his own.

I would never have bought a condo to start with.
They have poor appreciation compared to individual properties, except for in a few big cities like NYC, LA, and SF.

Uh, guy, I owned a two-flat before i owned this. I had to deal with shovelling snow, raking leaves, cutting grass, tenant problems, and a bunch of stuff I won't go into here. I also had to pay for water.

I don't have to **** with that stuff in a Condo. All I do is pay my association fee and someone else deals with that crap.

A Condo works for me because I live by myself, and I work about 80 hours a week. (The main reason I'm looking for a bigger unit is because I need a home office space).

 

[Rigby5]

Okay, buddy. Obviously, you haven't done any major repairs recently.

I need to remodel both the kitchen and bath... 10K was generous.



Sure, if you want to wait forever to do it... which I don't.




Actually, I know exactly what the sale value is because I know what the last five units of similiar value sold for in this same complex. But do go on telling me my business.



Your point is at the top of your head. I've been looking at properties for the last two weeks. I'm kind of fine with what I'm looking at. I could buy an equivalent property for less than what I am getting for this one. I actually want better, because I need an extra bedroom. And I'm at a point in my life where I can afford better.

The reality is, housing never really recovered fully from Bush's Recession.



You don't live in my market, and you are kind of talking out of your ass.... but that's fine, to each his own.




Uh, guy, I owned a two-flat before i owned this. I had to deal with shovelling snow, raking leaves, cutting grass, tenant problems, and a bunch of stuff I won't go into here. I also had to pay for water.

I don't have to **** with that stuff in a Condo. All I do is pay my association fee and someone else deals with that crap.

A Condo works for me because I live by myself, and I work about 80 hours a week. (The main reason I'm looking for a bigger unit is because I need a home office space).

Wrong again, based on misconceptions.
First of all, I flip homes about every year or less, and am constantly on top of prices and costs.
Second is that if you read what I wrote, I was clear it is much faster to sell a home without the remodel, and cut the prices by that amount.
That way they get exactly what they want instead of what the seller wanted.
And no, I can do a bath or kitchen for less than 3k each, easily.
I do FSBO often, and if you do your own web site, it take no extra time.

When did the previous sales take place?
Things greatly changed in the last 6 months.
Housing is in the biggest boom I have ever seen.

A neighbor kid can mow for $30, once a month.
You don't rake leaves. The mower mulches them.

You never need two rooms at the same time.
There is no need for a bedroom when you are in the office, and no need for an office when you are in the bedroom.
Same is true with the living room.

 

[Flopper]

Yes, they either bribed or bullied enough tenants into voting yes. or they straight up lied about what the vote was. Either way, it went through.

That sounds like the best outcome.

Of course it is too late for your current situation.
I was just correcting misconceptions for future reference.

You NEVER spend $10k for repairs.
Not only is it easy to find unlicensed and unbonded people for about a tenth that, but you don't want to repair before a sale.
They buyer wants to do their own upgrades their way, and vastly prefer if previous owners do NOT do repairs.
While realtors ask for 6%, they often get more than that for you.
But FISBO (For Sale By Owner), is not that hard to do either.
And you have no idea what market value is right now, so it is unlikely to be actually $25k over market value.
It is accelerating rapidly.
I know of several properties that recently sold for twice their purchase price, after only a few years.
It is an extreme seller's market right now.
My point is you likely are going to be disappointed by how much you are going to have to pay for your replacement property.
I am just saying all the things you mentioned are not entirely accurate.
They are preconceptions.
But to each his own.
I would never have bought a condo to start with.
They have poor appreciation compared to individual properties, except for in a few big cities like NYC, LA, and SF.

Yes, you can save a lot of money if you hire unbonded unlicensed tradesmen but you can also get in a real mess if you don't understand what they are doing and aren't capable of inspecting the work for problems. I would never hire unlicensed electricians or plumbers if the job involved anything more serious than changing faucet washers and light bulbs.

 

[Rigby5]

That sounds like the best outcome.

Yes, you can save a lot of money if you hire unbonded unlicensed tradesmen but you can also get in a real mess if you don't understand what they are doing and aren't capable of inspecting the work for problems. I would never hire unlicensed electricians or plumbers if the job involved anything more serious than changing faucet washers and light bulbs.

No, I act as the licensed, bonded, contractor, and I make sure everyone else does exactly what I tell then to do.
I have never hired a plumber, electrician, HVAC, etc., and do almost all my own work.
They only times I hire is when it is a question of time, like flooring, plastering, painting, roofing, siding, etc.
And I am not bragging.
Anyone can do this stuff.
It is very easy.
It just took some time, reading, and practice.
I even did my own septic system.
Everything I have ever done always passed inspection.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong again, based on misconceptions.
First of all, I flip homes about every year or less, and am constantly on top of prices and costs.
Second is that if you read what I wrote, I was clear it is much faster to sell a home without the remodel, and cut the prices by that amount.

OH, you're one of the douchebags who wrecked the economy in 2008.... got it.

When did the previous sales take place?
Things greatly changed in the last 6 months.
Housing is in the biggest boom I have ever seen.

Not out here they aren't. Frankly, prices for these units have barely recovered back to 2006 levels.

That way they get exactly what they want instead of what the seller wanted.
And no, I can do a bath or kitchen for less than 3k each, easily.
I do FSBO often, and if you do your own web site, it take no extra time.

Holy shit, a website? Really?

Okay, so even you admit that it would cost $6000. (My own estimates on just materials is about 6000 counting everything I want to do, labor would be more.

So I spend $6000- $10,000 to get market value, pay a realtor $6000, and maybe, if I'm lucky, walk away with $30,000 after mortgage is paid off after months of having it on the market.

OR

I take the deal, no realtor. No repairs. $20,000 over market value and the $5000 bribe they offered us for our yes vote, I walk away with $60,000 I can put towards my new place.

This really isn't complicated.

When did the previous sales take place?
Things greatly changed in the last 6 months.
Housing is in the biggest boom I have ever seen.

A neighbor kid can mow for $30, once a month.
You don't rake leaves. The mower mulches them.

Actually, things have gotten worse, if anything...it's why the Condo board wants to sell.

You see, right now, 48% of the units are Rentals- the owners don't live here, nor did they want to sell the units when they moved up to something bigger because, again- Bush and You crashed the housing market in 2008 and pricing is just getting back to what it was. In this complex, we have (according to the building manager) 30 Section 8 families and at least four from Catholic Charities. To top it all off, they are converting a nearby hotel to a Drug Rehab Center. That's going to do wonders for property values.

If the sale hadn't gone through, they were going to need to massively raise association fees to do a lot of needed repairs and upgrades. (In fact, the investors planned to keep snapping up units to get controlling interest in the board.)

The advantage of the investors is their plan is to take units like mine, completely rehab them to modern units, and rent them for a pretty good price. They are going to get rid of all the Section 8 people. Heck I might have even wanted to stay, if I wasn't opposed to renting on principle, and didn't want an upgrade based on all the other reasons I've stated.

You never need two rooms at the same time.
There is no need for a bedroom when you are in the office, and no need for an office when you are in the bedroom.
Same is true with the living room.

Whatever, dude. I think you need to kind of mind your own ******* business and not tell people what you think is right for them.

True, I did ask for advice, but frankly, that's over with, and most of your advice is kind of stupid.

Let's take the office. Um. Yeah, I do need a separate room for an office because I meet with people, and meeting them in the same room I have a bed would be, you know, awkward.

 

[Rigby5]

OH, you're one of the douchebags who wrecked the economy in 2008.... got it.



Not out here they aren't. Frankly, prices for these units have barely recovered back to 2006 levels.




Holy shit, a website? Really?

Okay, so even you admit that it would cost $6000. (My own estimates on just materials is about 6000 counting everything I want to do, labor would be more.

So I spend $6000- $10,000 to get market value, pay a realtor $6000, and maybe, if I'm lucky, walk away with $30,000 after mortgage is paid off after months of having it on the market.

OR

I take the deal, no realtor. No repairs. $20,000 over market value and the $5000 bribe they offered us for our yes vote, I walk away with $60,000 I can put towards my new place.

This really isn't complicated.



Actually, things have gotten worse, if anything...it's why the Condo board wants to sell.

You see, right now, 48% of the units are Rentals- the owners don't live here, nor did they want to sell the units when they moved up to something bigger because, again- Bush and You crashed the housing market in 2008 and pricing is just getting back to what it was. In this complex, we have (according to the building manager) 30 Section 8 families and at least four from Catholic Charities. To top it all off, they are converting a nearby hotel to a Drug Rehab Center. That's going to do wonders for property values.

If the sale hadn't gone through, they were going to need to massively raise association fees to do a lot of needed repairs and upgrades. (In fact, the investors planned to keep snapping up units to get controlling interest in the board.)

The advantage of the investors is their plan is to take units like mine, completely rehab them to modern units, and rent them for a pretty good price. They are going to get rid of all the Section 8 people. Heck I might have even wanted to stay, if I wasn't opposed to renting on principle, and didn't want an upgrade based on all the other reasons I've stated.




Whatever, dude. I think you need to kind of mind your own ******* business and not tell people what you think is right for them.

True, I did ask for advice, but frankly, that's over with, and most of your advice is kind of stupid.

Let's take the office. Um. Yeah, I do need a separate room for an office because I meet with people, and meeting them in the same room I have a bed would be, you know, awkward.

The problem in 2008 had nothing to do with people flipping houses. No idea where you got that ridiculous idea. The problem was Bush, the national debt, and how that effected CA ARMs based on the British LIBOR.

The real estate market recovered a long time ago from the crash that was over 13 years ago.
In fact, it is on the verge of the next crash.

The only advantage of a broker listing is the MLS websites, and you can just do your own. I only use real estate agents if too busy.

If you were reading, I suggest its best to NOT remodel.

With office, you never heard of a Murphy bed?

But whatever. Don't bother responding, You are getting really annoying.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem in 2008 had nothing to do with people flipping houses. No idea where you got that ridiculous idea. The problem was Bush, the national debt, and how that effected CA ARMs based on the British LIBOR.

No, it really was assholes flipping houses and the banks signing off on people doing that...

If you were reading, I suggest its best to NOT remodel.

With office, you never heard of a Murphy bed?

Sure... it's just a stupid idea when I can just as easily get a second bedroom to use as an office.

But whatever. Don't bother responding, You are getting really annoying.

It's basically my reaction to pompous know it all...

Point is, I told you why my situation worked for me, and you kept babbling on about how you were "right". I suspect you probably don't have many friends IRL, which is why you waste people's time here.

 

[DrLove]

So throwing this out there because some of you I actually respect your opinions.

I've lived in the same Condo Complex since 2004, but a real estate company is looking to buy us all out and convert to Rental units. This is mostly being instigated by the Condo Manager, who wants to retire and is probably sick of dealing with this nonsense.

The good part is that they are going to buy all the units "as is" for about 20% above current market pricing. This probably works out for me because I really do need to do some remodeling, but I'm not going to bother if the place is being sold to a company that's going to tear everything out to standardize them.

So I'll probably walk away with about $60,000.00. More than enough to put down a payment on a new Condo and start over again.

The bad part- I really don't want to move again or to rent again.

The sale will only go through if 75% of the owners vote to go through with it. At current, 48% of the units are owned by people who don't live here, 52% are owned by people who do. So this is a case where my vote will actually make a difference.

The other factor is that the town is about to rezone a commercial property which will probably have a serious impact on the community. Essentially, the county is trying to force this down the town's throat.

So should I take the money and run or vote against the change?

So that 60 grand is over and above fair market value? If so, run with the money. Take a look at comps in your complex. Zillow is a pretty good way of finding them. I was shocked to find out that my place was up almost 40% over only the past 2.5 years.

 

[Rigby5]

No, it really was assholes flipping houses and the banks signing off on people doing that...




Sure... it's just a stupid idea when I can just as easily get a second bedroom to use as an office.





It's basically my reaction to pompous know it all...

Point is, I told you why my situation worked for me, and you kept babbling on about how you were "right". I suspect you probably don't have many friends IRL, which is why you waste people's time here.

Wrong.
You obviously know nothing about real estate or the 2008 collapse.
People NEED housing, and renting is a form of slavery really.
Those rehabbing houses are doing a service, and in no way drove any any of the forces leading to the 2008 collapse.
If you wish to stop being ignorant, read about the LIBOR scandal.
I just hate seeing ignorance and waste.

 

[JoeB131]

So that 60 grand is over and above fair market value? If so, run with the money. Take a look at comps in your complex. Zillow is a pretty good way of finding them. I was shocked to find out that my place was up almost 40% over only the past 2.5 years.

I've looked, and the price seems fair under the circumstances... This is probably the best deal we are going to get.

Wrong.
You obviously know nothing about real estate or the 2008 collapse.
People NEED housing, and renting is a form of slavery really.
Those rehabbing houses are doing a service, and in no way drove any any of the forces leading to the 2008 collapse.

As Upton Sinclair observed, it's hard to get a man to understand a problem if their livliehood depends on them not understanding it.

 

[Rigby5]

I've looked, and the price seems fair under the circumstances... This is probably the best deal we are going to get.



As Upton Sinclair observed, it's hard to get a man to understand a problem if their livliehood depends on them not understanding it.

Wrong.
I flip as more of a creative outlet.
It is fun.
And a needed service to those unable to rehab by themselves.

You are such a person who lacks imagination, but instead prefers the fairy tale that these investors are willing to over pay out of the kindness of their heart, to help people like you liquidate.

 

[Flopper]

OH, you're one of the douchebags who wrecked the economy in 2008.... got it.



Not out here they aren't. Frankly, prices for these units have barely recovered back to 2006 levels.




Holy shit, a website? Really?

Okay, so even you admit that it would cost $6000. (My own estimates on just materials is about 6000 counting everything I want to do, labor would be more.

So I spend $6000- $10,000 to get market value, pay a realtor $6000, and maybe, if I'm lucky, walk away with $30,000 after mortgage is paid off after months of having it on the market.

OR

I take the deal, no realtor. No repairs. $20,000 over market value and the $5000 bribe they offered us for our yes vote, I walk away with $60,000 I can put towards my new place.

This really isn't complicated.



Actually, things have gotten worse, if anything...it's why the Condo board wants to sell.

You see, right now, 48% of the units are Rentals- the owners don't live here, nor did they want to sell the units when they moved up to something bigger because, again- Bush and You crashed the housing market in 2008 and pricing is just getting back to what it was. In this complex, we have (according to the building manager) 30 Section 8 families and at least four from Catholic Charities. To top it all off, they are converting a nearby hotel to a Drug Rehab Center. That's going to do wonders for property values.

If the sale hadn't gone through, they were going to need to massively raise association fees to do a lot of needed repairs and upgrades. (In fact, the investors planned to keep snapping up units to get controlling interest in the board.)

The advantage of the investors is their plan is to take units like mine, completely rehab them to modern units, and rent them for a pretty good price. They are going to get rid of all the Section 8 people. Heck I might have even wanted to stay, if I wasn't opposed to renting on principle, and didn't want an upgrade based on all the other reasons I've stated.




Whatever, dude. I think you need to kind of mind your own ******* business and not tell people what you think is right for them.

True, I did ask for advice, but frankly, that's over with, and l most of your advice is kind of stupid.

Let's take the office. Um. Yeah, I do need a separate room for an office because I meet with people, and meeting them in the same room I have a bed would be, you know, awkward.

Your experience living in a condo with many rentals is similar to what I have seen over the years. Stay away from buying condo with a large percent of rentals if you plan to live there. The best condo I ever lived in was an 80 unit complex with 2 rentals. The worst was a condo of town houses with 93 units and near half were rentals. There were 6 position on the Board but never more than 3 were filled because the absentee owners weren't interested in serving on the board, the renter were not allowed and the rest of the resident owners didn't want to deal with the problems. Renters simply don't have much interest in property and absentee landlords have only one interest, keeping cost down.

 

[Rigby5]

Your experience living in a condo with many rentals is similar to what I have seen over the years. Stay away from buying condo with a large percent of rentals. The best condo I ever lived in was 80 unit complex with 2 rentals. The worst was a condo of town houses with 93 units and near half were rentals. There were 6 position on the Board but never more than 3 were filled because the owners weren't interested in serving on the board, the renter were no allowed and the rest of owners didn't want deal with the problems. Renters simply don't have much interest in property.

Avoid all condos like the plague.
Although some are ok, the risk are greatly amplified, and it costs a tiny fraction to just hire a maintenance company for a private home, if you really do not want to deal with anything yourself.
Condos traditionally have half the appreciation rate of individually owned properties.
The only advantage of a condo is if you want an upper floor view while still owning.

 

[Flopper]

Avoid all condos like the plague.
Although some are ok, the risk are greatly amplified, and it costs a tiny fraction to just hire a maintenance company for a private home, if you really do not want to deal with anything yourself.
Condos traditionally have half the appreciation rate of individually owned properties.
The only advantage of a condo is if you want an upper floor view while still owning.

Since I travel extensively in my job before I retired and still do, condo living is perfect for me. I have owed several houses and yard work, painting, and such chores are not for me. When I was younger we owned several homes one directly on the gulf in Florida. It was great when kids were young but after the kids, left, a 4 bedroom house was too much.

You're correct condos do not, in generally appreciate as fast as single family homes. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have done fairly well on condos I have sold. The one I live in now has a market value over twice what I paid for it 15 years ago.

There is no one best type of dwelling. It all depends on your needs.

 

[Rigby5]

Since I travel extensively in my job before I retired and still do, condo living is perfect for me. I have owed several houses and yard work, painting, and such chores are not for me. When I was younger we owned several homes one directly on the gulf in Florida. It was great when kids were young but after the kids, left, a 4 bedroom house was too much.

You're correct condos do not, in generally appreciate as fast as single family homes. Maybe I have been lucky, but I have done fairly well on condos I have sold. The one I live in now has a market value over twice what I paid for it 15 years ago.

There is no one best type of dwelling. It all depends on your needs.

There is some simplicity to condo resale if you intend short term.
But I do not at all understand why people would think there is any advantage in terms of maintenance?
With a condo, you have to work through a board, who may have entirely different values, goals, and ideas than you have.
It is vastly easier to just hire the maintenance, whether remodel of just yard work, yourself.
As for return, one house I bought for $45k, sold for $172k.
Another I bought for $145k, sold for $510k.
I do look for places in great need of work.
The 2nd one I mentioned had all the pain pealing off one wall due to the water pressure behind the paint.
I just have a natural prejudice against condos I suppose, since I tend to avoid large cities, and condos do best in the largest cities.

 

[Flopper]

There is some simplicity to condo resale if you intend short term.
But I do not at all understand why people would think there is any advantage in terms of maintenance?
With a condo, you have to work through a board, who may have entirely different values, goals, and ideas than you have.
It is vastly easier to just hire the maintenance, whether remodel of just yard work, yourself.
As for return, one house I bought for $45k, sold for $172k.
Another I bought for $145k, sold for $510k.
I do look for places in great need of work.
The 2nd one I mentioned had all the pain pealing off one wall due to the water pressure behind the paint.
I just have a natural prejudice against condos I suppose, since I tend to avoid large cities, and condos do best in the largest cities.

People don't buy condos to save or make money. Most condo owners are either retired or not too far from it. I've lived in a number of condos and been on two boards. I have found there are several reasons why people buy condos:

• They no longer want or need to live in a single family home and don't want to rent.
• They like apartment living but want something nicer or want to own instead of renting.
• They are attracted to social activities offered by many larger condos.
• Some condos provide services aimed at people who travel extensively
• Some condos are like an extended care facility that offers many services for the elderly.

 

[Rigby5]

People don't buy condos to save or make money. Most condo owners are either retired or not too far from it. I've lived in a number of condos and been on two boards. I have found there are several reasons why people buy condos:

• They no longer want or need to live in a single family home and don't want to rent.
• They like apartment living but want something nicer or want to own instead of renting.
• They are attracted to social activities offered by many larger condos.
• Some condos provide services aimed at people who travel extensively
• Some condos are like an extended care facility that offers many services for the elderly.

Yes, I can see how they blend well with assisted living, water front activities, etc.