Zone1 Muhammad Ali's Opinions On Race. Right? Wrong?

[SaxonJackson]

Following is a 3-minute clip revealing Muhammad Ali's beliefs concerning racial relations (in general). What's your best critique of what he has to say. Is he right? Is he wrong? Has your opinion of him changed as a result of the video?

 

[Bleipriester]

Following is a 3-minute clip revealing Muhammad Ali's beliefs concerning racial relations (in general). What's your best critique of what he has to say. Is he right? Is he wrong? Has your opinion of him changed as a result of the video?

He is right and we know it but it isn´t woke or political correct. It is just nature. He doesn´t tell us to hate each other.

 

[SaxonJackson]

He is right and we know it but it isn´t woke or political correct. It is just nature. He doesn´t tell us to hate each other.

I agree. Our soul knows when truth is spoken. It's where the term “ring of truth” comes from. We just sense it when we hear it.

 

[luiza]

Ali is wrong because he believes that as something works a lot of the time , even most of the time , that it s therefore right all of the time . A simple misuse and abuse of logic .

 

[SaxonJackson]

Ali is wrong because he believes that as something works a lot of the time , even most of the time , that it s therefore right all of the time . A simple misuse and abuse of logic .

But things that are correct most of the time are better than things that are wrong most of the time. That's nature. Probably not a good idea to gamble because you will lose most of the time. Probably a good idea to be kind to strangers, which will have good results most of the time.

 

[DukeU]

that it s therefore right all of the time

When is it wrong?

 

[luiza]

When is it wrong?

Why have you picked a few words with no meaning in themselves and obviously out of context ? And even if I can figure out what you have in mind , it is precisely what I was disagreeing with Ali about . So any disagreement you may have is with him .

 

[DukeU]

Why have you picked a few words with no meaning in themselves and obviously out of context ? And even if I can figure out what you have in mind , it is precisely what I was disagreeing with Ali about . So any disagreement you may have is with him .

You said Ali was wrong.

I asked you to give an example of when its wrong.

We probably agree for the most part, I just can't think of an instance where his statements are wrong. Clue me in?!?

 

[katsteve2012]

I personally met him and talked to him several times, at various stages of his life, and also was good friends with his personal biographer, Howard Bingham.

There was a significant difference between his personal views in the 1960's through the early 1970"s when he was in his 20"s, (which is when the interview in the link took place) versus his views in later decades as he aged and his world view evolved, which was mainly brought about by his conversion from the Nation of Islam to Sunni Islam in 1975.

 

[DukeU]

There was a significant difference between his personal views in the 1960's through the early 1970"s when he was in his 20"s, (which is when the interview in the link took place) versus his views in later decades as he aged and his world view evolved.

What were some of those significant differences?

 

[katsteve2012]

What were some of those significant differences?

After his conversion from The Nation of Islam to Sunni Islam, in 1975, the most significant change in him, were his views on race and and unity between races.

The attached article elaborates in more detail.

Here is an excerpt from a statement that he made in 2004, 33 years removed from the 1971 video interview in the OP.

"The Nation of Islam taught that White people were devils," Ali wrote in 2004. "I don't believe that now; in fact, I never really believed that. … But when I was young, I had seen and heard so many horrible stories about the White man that this made me stop and listen."

Conversion to Islam | Ali shifted from radical sect to inclusive group

As new heavyweight boxing champion Cassius Clay announced his conversion to Islam in 1964, most Americans were unaware of the tiny minority of Muslims among them.

www.courier-journal.com

 

[DukeU]

After his conversion from The Nation of Islam to Sunni Islam, in 1975, the most significant change in him, were his views on race and and unity between races.

The attached article elaborates in more detail.

Here is an excerpt from it:

"The Nation of Islam taught that White people were devils," Ali wrote in 2004. "I don't believe that now; in fact, I never really believed that. … But when I was young, I had seen and heard so many horrible stories about the White man that this made me stop and listen."

I know the things that are readily available and easily googled.

I was thinking you had some personal observations.

Thanks.

 

[TheParser]

* Because it was only 3 minutes long, I listened to the whole clip.

* I immediately thought of that old saying that is now considered racist: "Birds of a feather flock together."

* I understand that until recently, high schools in the now integrated South had separate proms -- because both groups wanted separate proms.

* I think that the Champ was essentially right, but there ARE exceptions.

a. Some men say that their wives of a different ethnicity are far better than any women of their own ethnicity.

* We have had official integration for 70 years.

* Personally, I can understand, for example, why the minority of Caucasians in Little Rock, Mississippi, say that they would feel more comfortable if they could have their own police officers and judges. They intend NO harm toward African Americans, but -- as the Champ said -- the two cultures are so different.
(Abraham Lincoln said the same.)

 

[katsteve2012]

I know the things that are readily available and easily googled.

I was thinking you had some personal observations.

Thanks.

I did have some personal observations, I assumed that you wanted some documented proof, so my mistake.

When I first met Ali in 1967 when I was an amateur boxer, it was during the time that he was exiled from the ring, and it was obviously a turbulent time in the country.

He was 25 years old at the time, and angry at not being able to make a living.

His only source of income were his speaking engagements, where he spoke on behalf of the Nation of Islam and during that time he was generally hated by many.

The next time that I saw him and spoke to him was after his fight against George Foreman in Zaire, in 1974.

He had matured, and within that time frame, when his license to box was reinstated in 1971, he had become close friends with a White bare knuckle fighter in the UK named Paddy Monaghen, who worked tirelessly to help him return to the ring.

Through that association he made many trips to the UK to visit Paddy and his family.

Paddy has since passed away, however I am very good friends with his son to this day.

Years later after Ali retired, I saw him for the last time in 2008, and what stood out most during that conversation was how he had matured and saw the world differently at that time versus when we first met in 1967 over
40 years prior.

He spoke at length about love for his fellow man and wanting world peace. He had a genuine belief in all people being able to coexist peacefully and without hatred for one another.

He even playfully punched me in the chest and said "See, I've still got it, and I'm going shock the world by coming back and winning the title again".

That is a fond memory that I always enjoy thinking about.

 

[Persuader]

Ali was not all that intelligent but he had several gifts besides his boxing abilities....he had good common sense, very charismatic and I think he would have made a great black politician or even President....he would have been much, much better than Obama....as it would have most anyone.

It was unfortunate that it took time for him to evolve from his earlier beliefs and association with the black racists.

I do think it is impossible though for Blacks and Whites to ever live peacefully and equitably in the same society as Abraham Lincoln also understood.

The most we can hope for is to prolong as long as possible our descent into racial chaos where it appears we are headed which will result in the demise of America....the real racists are using blacks to destroy America....we have gone too far down that road to be able to recover and return to the beliefs that made America great.

5 Things You May Not Know About Abraham Lincoln, Slavery and Emancipation | HISTORY

The 16th U.S. president was firm in believing slavery was morally wrong, but his views on racial equality were sometimes more complicated.

www.history.com

 

[SaxonJackson]

Ali was not all that intelligent but he had several gifts besides his boxing abilities....he had good common sense, very charismatic and I think he would have made a great black politician or even President....he would have been much, much better than Obama....as it would have most anyone.

It was unfortunate that it took time for him to evolve from his earlier beliefs and association with the black racists.

I do think it is impossible though for Blacks and Whites to ever live peacefully and equitably in the same society as Abraham Lincoln also understood.

The most we can hope for is to prolong as long as possible our descent into racial chaos where it appears we are headed which will result in the demise of America....the real racists are using blacks to destroy America....we have gone too far down that road to be able to recover and return to the beliefs that made America great.

I personally believe that both races can live in peace as long as they're free to live near and associate with the folks they're the most comfortable being around. Blacks should have a haven where they can live away from whites. Many of them openly hate whites and blame their ills or shortcomings on whites. Whites, too, should have havens where they are free to live apart from blacks. Many of them don't like blacks due to their culture and lifestyle and propensity towards violence (in general).

For the folks who think integration is the answer, they, too, should have areas where they can congregate and live near one another.

One thing that should NOT occur is government enforced integration. Forcing anyone, regardless of race, to do things against their will is tyranny.

 

[DukeU]

I did have some personal observations, I assumed that you wanted some documented proof, so my mistake.

When I first met Ali in 1967 when I was an amateur boxer, it was during the time that he was exiled from the ring, and it was obviously a turbulent time in the country.

He was 25 years old and obviously angry at not being able to make a living.

His only source of income were his speaking engagements, where he spoke on behalf of the Nation of Islam and during that time he was generally hated by many.

The next time that I saw him and spoke to him was after his fight against George Foreman in Zaire, in 1974.

He had matured, and within that time frame, when his license to box was reinstated in 1971, he had become very close friends with a bare knuckle fighter in the UK named Paddy Monaghen, who worked tirelessly to help him return to the ring.

Through that association he made many trips to the UK to visit Paddy and his family.

Paddy has since passed away, however I am very good friends with his son to this day.

Years later after Ali retired, I saw him for the last time in 2008, and what stood out most during that conversation was how he had matured and saw the world differently at that time versus when we first met in 1967.

He spoke at length about love for his fellow man and wanting world peace.

He even playfully punched me in the chest and said "See, I've still got it, and I'm going shock the world by coming back and winning the title again".

That is a fond memory that I always enjoy thinking about.

Thanks.

I was too young to witness Ali in his prime, but my father was a huge fan. Because of him and his stories of Ali I too became a fan.

What my father loved most about Ali was his willingness to stand for what he believes no matter the cost.

That and the fact he believed Ali was the greatest fighter of all time. He knew a thing or two about boxing and fighting in general as he was an amateur fighter also.

He once fought Bernard Taylor before he became a pro.

 

[Persuader]

I personally believe that both races can live in peace as long as they're free to live near and associate with the folks they're the most comfortable being around. Blacks should have a haven where they can live away from whites. Many of them openly hate whites and blame their ills or shortcomings on whites. Whites, too, should have havens where they are free to live apart from blacks. Many of them don't like blacks due to their culture and lifestyle and propensity towards violence (in general).

For the folks who think integration is the answer, they, too, should have areas where they can congregate and live near one another.

One thing that should NOT occur is government enforced integration. Forcing anyone, regardless of race, to do things against their will is tyranny.

We lived quite peacefully for a long time under segregation....at least down south though there were many unfortunate incidents.

Though what you say sounds good I do not think it can possibly be achieved.

I think like Lincoln the best solution for our racial problems would be to set up a colony in Africa for American blacks....they should not be forced to return but a place for them to live peacefully and productively ih Africa should be of the highest priority.

I think most Americans would be supportive of financially supporting such a project....it would be expensive but we have and continue to waste tons of money trying to make integration work...it never has and never will...goes against human nature.

Unfortunately we as a society we would have to udergo some major changes to make that possible...thus I remain convinced that America is headed for the dustbin of history.

I am convinced that America will be destroyed either by some great catastrophe aka the eruption of a huge volcano in Yellowston Park, or a nuclear attack by one of our enemies....even tiny little N. Korea could now destroy America.

I think unfortunately the best hope now is for China to allow us to live as a subserviant nation...essentially slaves to produce the food they need.

The whole of the Western World as we now know it will change radically....Europe the Catholic Church and the muslim nations will come to some sort of agreement ....where China fits into this I cannot understand.

The only real hope we have is for prophecied return of the Messiah....the world is too far gone for anything else to work.

Company behind contentious Michigan battery factory quietly appeared as Chinese foreign principal in filings

The California-based Gotion Inc. quietly registered as a Chinese foreign principal amid contentious fights over a Michigan plant stemming from Chinese Communist Party influence concerns.

www.foxnews.com

 

[katsteve2012]

Thanks.

I was too young to witness Ali in his prime, but my father was a huge fan. Because of him and his stories of Ali I too became a fan.

What my father loved most about Ali was his willingness to stand for what he believes no matter the cost.

That and the fact he believed Ali was the greatest fighter of all time. He knew a thing or two about boxing and fighting in general as he was an amateur fighter also.

He once fought Bernard Taylor before he became a pro.

I remember Bernard quite well.
He was really slick and smooth.

As far as Ali's place in history as a fighter, I believe that he was absolutely the greatest heavyweight ever, but IMO, the greatest FIGHTER across all weight classes was Sugar Ray Robinson.

In fact, he was Ali's idol, and when Ali turned pro, he literally begged Ray to become his trainer.

My dad was a fighter as well, and was captain of the Navy boxing team when he served.

Growing up, he was a huge Joe Louis fan, but in later years he became a believer in Ali.

Especially after we traveled to Zaire together to see him fight George Foreman. He talked about that fight for the rest of his life.

 

[Persuader]

I remember Bernard quite well.
He was really slick and smooth.

As far as Ali's place in history as a fighter, I believe that he was absolutely the greatest heavyweight ever, but IMO, the greatest FIGHTER across all weight classes was Sugar Ray Robinson.

In fact, he was Ali's idol, and when Ali turned pro, he literally begged Ray to become his trainer.

My dad was a fighter as well, and was captain of the Navy boxing team when he served.

Growing up, he was a huge Joe Louis fan, but in later years he became a believer in Ali.

Especially after we traveled to Zaire together to see him fight George Foreman. He talked about that fight for the rest of his life.

Who gives a fuck about boxing?