i dont need to ask anyone, i already KNOW
Mother On the Lam For Right to Let Son Die
- Thread starter jillian
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Agnapostate
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- Banned
- #262
I'm of the opinion that this should ideally be his decision to make, but there are a number of other factors in play here, including his religious indoctrination and apparent ignorance of the nature of the treatment. I believe that public policy should reflect a youth right to self-determination, including medical consent.
In terms of the empirical literature's relation to such matters, I'd refer to Weithorn and Campbell's The Competency of Children and Adolescents to Make Informed Treatment Decisions. Consider the abstract:
I'm inclined to believe that such empirical literature is suitable for general policy analysis, but not for evaluating specific cases such as this, obviously. It's true that he's been brainwashed, but IMO, all variety of religious fanatics are brainwashed to some extent. The most preferable course of action to prevent situations like this is to permit individuals of all ages to freely access the information that they wish to access, regardless of parental consent.
In terms of the empirical literature's relation to such matters, I'd refer to Weithorn and Campbell's The Competency of Children and Adolescents to Make Informed Treatment Decisions. Consider the abstract:
I'm inclined to believe that such empirical literature is suitable for general policy analysis, but not for evaluating specific cases such as this, obviously. It's true that he's been brainwashed, but IMO, all variety of religious fanatics are brainwashed to some extent. The most preferable course of action to prevent situations like this is to permit individuals of all ages to freely access the information that they wish to access, regardless of parental consent.
he's 13 yrs old and can't read or write agna, so what then?
no, you don't....
i am not denying that the church of TODAY uses anointing with oil in a spiritual fashion, but in the time of Christ in the middle east, anointing oil was used for medicinal purposes in conjunction with prayer to heal people....if prayer was all that was needed then prayer is all that would have been done.
PLEASE speak to your own pastor or google it yourself, what you THINK you know, is incomplete....
the whole middle east used oil to heal their wounds or the sick, it was not just followers of Christ...
care
Agnapostate
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- #266
This isn't an especially sound argument. A fetus would have no awareness of its own death or capacity to suffer as a result of its own death, and is therefore not equivalent to a person with both of those capacities.
Not to you. To you, they are both your chattel to do with as you will.
I find it amusing that there's another thread where the "right" of an 8-year old boy to live as a girl is being touted...but here a 13 year old who decides to opt out of chemo is considered "retarded" and should be removed from his harmful parents.
That's a poor comparison. There are obviously worse consequences that could occur as a result of refusing cancer treatment than could occur as a result of choosing to wear a dress and have a female name.
I'm decidedly not on "your side," just as I wasn't on "your side" when I said that the fundamentalist Mormon ranch shouldn't have been raided. For that matter, you and RetardedGayInsurgent have committed numerous logical fallacies in this thread.
no, i know what i know and i dont need to ask anyone
you can believe that crap if you want to, but not me
Agnapostate
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I'm more receptive to that than you think. As I said elsewhere, we should not hesitate to note that authoritarian governance can just as effectively be manifested through parental decisions, considering the limited legal rights of minors and the rather expansive legal rights of parents in regards to them. Political scientist Robert Dahl has defined a spectrum of "influence terms" that range from the relatively benevolent to the openly malevolent. They include rational persuasion, manipulative persuasion, inducement, power, coercion, and physical force.
In my opinion, judging by the hierarchical strictures of families deeply immersed in Roman Catholicism, young Hauser has probably been subjected to manipulative persuasion by his parents, and may also be subjected to inducement and power were he to refuse. So the authoritarianism is not only able to come from the government. As I said, my advocacy is for him to have the opportunity to make a rational decision (which I believe he is capable of doing), once he has been sufficiently informed of all the consequences and implications of the treatment. Such a situation may necessitate his capture or detainment.
ok, that's fine and dandy, don't speak to your pastor!
but HOW will you ever know more than you know now?
i for one, plan on expanding my knowledge, every day for the rest of my life and never plan to stop learning more every day that passes, than i know now....
Now what makes you think that you know what the best course of treatment is for your kids. I don't mean that in a belittling way...please don't take it that way.
But are you a doctor? Are you an herbalist? Have you treated others with cancer successfully?
I don't care what you as an adult decide will be the best course of treatment for yourself. You have that right.
And you have the right to make important medical decisions for your children...TO A POINT.
But at a certain point, a parents decision to withhold lifesaving treatment for a child become neglect, plain and simple. It is legally mandated to be reported, plain and simple. The state takes over, plain and simple. And there is nothing that you can do about it.
While this is a fascinating discussion, the parent will ALWAYS lose in a case like this. And they should.
Gunny
Gold Member
We've had this argument before. How about we just turn our children over to the government?
Parents have a RIGHT to decide what is in the best interest of their child.
And you would rather call an unborn human being anything BUT what it is; yet, want to stick your nose into someone else's business in a heartbeat.
Gunny
Gold Member
Let's see ... the 13 years old boy is at least able to make a choice, whether you agree with it or not. The unborn child just gets squashed. No choice.
Ever been through chemo? Anyone who hasn't been through it or watched someone go through it needs to shut up. Death doesn't look so bad by comparison.
what she doesnt get, is those "2 cells" shes talking about, are a living child as well
Gunny
Gold Member
Now, now ... expecting consistency from the left?
They have NO problem with their hypocrisy. They just refuse to address it.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Thread title is wrong as well as most of the comments, the Mother is not trying to kill her son nor allow him to die, she is seeking DIFFERENT medical options available for the treatment of his illness.
The Judge had no business enforcing the Doctors wishes in this case. Should the boy get chemo? Sure, sounds like the best option, BUT it is NOT our right to dictate to him or his family what treatment he receive.
The Judge had no business enforcing the Doctors wishes in this case. Should the boy get chemo? Sure, sounds like the best option, BUT it is NOT our right to dictate to him or his family what treatment he receive.
Zoom-boing
Platinum Member
How would I determine what the best treatment would be? By getting several opinions and seeing several doctors and then making the decision based upon that information. My decision -for myself or my kids- would be based on that info. Were I to choose an alternative method vs. a traditional method it would and should be my choice.
My son is dx'd w/ASD (autistic spectrum disorder). He was 6 1/2 when he was dx'd, old for that diagnosis. We've been to no less than 15 doctors over the course of 8-10 years either seeking a diagnosis or treatment. What I discovered is that all 15 doctors had their own idea of what was the best treatment for him. There was no consensus, per say. I've had one 'best in the field' tell me no, do not get any type of therapy for your kid and the next doc, another 'best in the field' say no, that was 100% wrong, get as much therapy as possible. Every doctor we saw scoffed when we said we wanted to remove gluten from his diet. I had conventional docs tell me that was hogwash. Well traditional docs offered Ritalin and Risperidal as treatment; we tried their route with little success and crappy side effects. We took my son off gluten when he was 7 1/2 for four years. Started in the spring; when school rolled around in the fall the teachers wanted to know what had happened because his behavior had improved that much. When he was little his skin was like an alligators, rough, dry, gross. Behind his ears used to split and bleed. I tried everything soap-wise to ease it. Nothing worked. Pediatrician said it's eczema, here's some creme. Even after tests were run and one of his levels came back high, she dismissed it as a false positive. I took him off milk for two months, prior to taking him off gluten, to see if any behavior changes would take place. None did but low and behold, his skin cleared up. He was allergic to milk.
You can go on and on about doctors knowing best; I've had enough shitty expericences to know diferently. You can decide what is best for you and your family and I will decide what is best for mine. And doctors and government do not have the right to force treatment just because they disagree with it and think that they know best.
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RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
You think parents have the right to choose to let their living children die, but not the right to choose to abort the fetus?
False argument, the Mother is not LETTING her child die, she is seeking alternate treatment. But hey way to twist the argument to meet your MORALS.
Gunny
Gold Member
But did you miss the pity party in the Flame Zone for poor ol' Farrah who chose to have alternative treatment rather than wear a colostomy bag?
It just gets deeper.
Valerie
Platinum Member
- Sep 17, 2008
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So you didn't bother to even read the thread?
Notice my not shutting up, BTW. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
So you didn't bother to even read the thread?
Notice my not shutting up, BTW. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
You and Jillian are simply LYING. Or ignorant. The mother is NOT refusing treatment, she is not trying to kill her son, nor let him die. She is seeking ALTERNATE TREATMENT. But hey keep twisting what is and is not the facts to justify YOUR bruised morals.
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