More Than A Dozen States Are Trying To Nullify Federal Gun Control

[danielpalos]

The 2nd amendment does not resolve state or local jurisdictions, but just emphatically denies any federal jurisdiction.

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

 

[hadit]

The defense and protection of the state and of the United States is an obligation of all persons within the state. The legislature shall provide for the discharge of this obligation and for the maintenance and regulation of an organized militia.

Key words, "within the state". That means each state has the responsibility to protect itself. Do you actually read what you post?

 

[danielpalos]

Key words, "within the state". That means each state has the responsibility to protect itself. Do you actually read what you post?

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

 

[hadit]

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

Which is the point the other poster was trying to make, isn't it, that gun control is a state issue, not a federal one?

 

[danielpalos]

Which is the point the other poster was trying to make, isn't it, that gun control is a state issue, not a federal one?

Congress can fix Standards for the Union along with this:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

 

[hadit]

Congress can fix Standards for the Union along with this:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

So where's my AR-15? If you want to use that as your justification for having Washington restrict gun ownership, you have to also have Washington supply the guns, and I don't see you doing that. All I see you doing is hollering incessantly for Washington to be in control on who has guns, but you never say it should supply those guns. Big problem there.

 

[danielpalos]

So where's my AR-15? If you want to use that as your justification for having Washington restrict gun ownership, you have to also have Washington supply the guns, and I don't see you doing that. All I see you doing is hollering incessantly for Washington to be in control on who has guns, but you never say it should supply those guns. Big problem there.

Only if you appeal to ignorance of express Law for Legal purposes:

To provide for organizing, arming,

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The main point of the 10th and 2nd are to prevent all federal jurisdiction.
It is not at all clear that any or all state or local firearm jurisdiction is automatically an infringement.

At least before the 14th Amendment was ratified. Now the 2A applies universally.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Congress can fix Standards for the Union along with this:

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

All that means is that congress will fund the training and arms purchases and will set up a command over the combined union army when needed by the federal government. States will appoint commanders and train the militia in the methods congress decides (which, as far as I can tell, congress has never done).

So, FedGov funds it and provides for a general command when the united army is needed, and gives instruction on how states will train the militia.

That is the complete extent of authority.

Nothing in that clause authorizes restrictions on weapons.

 

[danielpalos]

All that means is that congress will fund the training and arms purchases and will set up a command over the combined union army when needed by the federal government. States will appoint commanders and train the militia in the methods congress decides (which, as far as I can tell, congress has never done).

So, FedGov funds it and provides for a general command when the united army is needed, and gives instruction on how states will train the militia.

That is the complete extent of authority.

Nothing in that clause authorizes restrictions on weapons.

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
— George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on
Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

Right.

But the clause you quoted says that all training authority is held by states, and FedGov will fund arming and provide for the type of "discipline" or method of training the states shall undertake.

FedGov: "Here states. Take this money and arm your citizens. Train them to fight in organized platoons of 4-man fire teams."

 

[Flash]

The Constitution is pretty damn clear that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

If the federal government infringes upon that right then they are acting illegally.

 

[hadit]

Only if you appeal to ignorance of express Law for Legal purposes:

To provide for organizing, arming,

You want them to organize, but apparently not to arm. Is that not correct?

 

[danielpalos]

You want them to organize, but apparently not to arm. Is that not correct?

However, did you reach that line of reasoning?

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.

 

[hadit]

However, did you reach that line of reasoning?

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.

I get it from a plain reading of what you posted. Don't you read what you post?

 

[danielpalos]

I get it from a plain reading of what you posted. Don't you read what you post?

It is not the way it sounded to me.

 

[hadit]

It is not the way it sounded to me.

Your quote, that you endlessly post, literally says it. I'll put it in bold for you.

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia"

 

[danielpalos]

Your quote, that you endlessly post, literally says it. I'll put it in bold for you.

"To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia"

That is actual and express, Constitutional law.

 

[hadit]

That is actual and express, Constitutional law.

Which again begs the question as to why you don't demand that the government give you an AR-15. Based on what you keep repeating, it's the government's job to arm the militia, which you also insist is all the people. So why do you not see that in the plain text you keep posting? Is it just that it counters your position so you refuse to acknowledge it?

 

[danielpalos]

Which again begs the question as to why you don't demand that the government give you an AR-15. Based on what you keep repeating, it's the government's job to arm the militia, which you also insist is all the people. So why do you not see that in the plain text you keep posting? Is it just that it counters your position so you refuse to acknowledge it?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.