More Calls For Prosecuting the NY Times and Ilk

[musicman]

That's an awful lot of "disgruntled" folk, mm. Couldn't possibly be that most of the country genuinely thinks the guy's a screw-up and the intel community is tired of the actions of the admin and then having the admin blame them for those very same screw ups.

OK - I give up. How is this Gothic horror tale of betrayal and blood an admin screw-up?

Brightly, in the key of B flat:

"Here comes that Rathergate feelin' again"

Everybody, now!

 

[Hobbit]

That's an awful lot of "disgruntled" folk, mm. Couldn't possibly be that most of the country genuinely thinks the guy's a screw-up and the intel community is tired of the actions of the admin and then having the admin blame them for those very same screw ups.

Let's see. So far, the disgruntled folk have been, hmm, let's go through it.

Joseph C. Wilson IV - Yeah, his highest title was nothing more than a fancy way of saying "Superintendant of the U.S. Embassy in Iraq," and I mean like an apartment superintendant. You know, the guy who makes sure the heating, air, plumbing, and electricity all work. His biggest career advancement was when the ambassador was out when Iraq invaded Kuwait and he was temporarily promoted to secretary, arranging meetings between actual diplomats. Still, he insists you call him 'ambassador.' His next assignment was in Gabon, a country more worthless even than France. I can't even find it on a map and I once competed in the state level Geography Bee. His wife dumped him in Niger to get rid of him for a few weeks. The trip wasn't even paid for. All he did the entire time was blatantly ask people "Hey, are you thinking of selling uranium to Iraq." What kind of idiot would say yes? He still concluded that Niger was thinking of 'increasing exports' to Iraq. The only thing Niger exports in any appreciable quantity is...uranium. He never filed a written report and returned to the U.S., much to the dismay of his wife.

He became a liberal icon when he claimed to be a 'CIA man' who had been on a 'secret mission' to Niger to gather info about uranium exports. He claimed that 'Dick Cheney sent him,' and that a report showing that Iraq was not trying to obtain uranium from Niger was 'on his desk.' There never was a written report. He never worked for the CIA. Dick Cheney knew nothing about it. This conclusion goes against everything said by British, American, and even French intelligence, not to mention dozens of others. At the peak of his Wilson's popularity, Robert Novak called him out in his syndicated column. He pointed out that Wilson wasn't a CIA man, spoke with no expertise, that the only report given was an oral report to a couple of beauracrats who came to his house, and that the only reason he was sent to Niger was because his wife, a chair-warming desk jockey, had him sent over there to get rid of him.

His wife had, before the date of this column, posed for a large picture in Vanity Fair using her real name and occupation as a CIA employee. Her name is Valerie Plame. You know the rest. That's one disgruntled employee.

The next one is the person who leaked the foreign prison thing. We have found that one person. She (I think it was a she) worked alone. She has been fired and is being prosecuted.

Then there's the person who leaked the wiretapping 'scandal.'

Then there's the person who leaked the bank tracing thing.

Assuming the leakers are all seperate people, I count four. Hardly a damning trend in government employees. (funny, you seem to be able to disprove a well-established trend by saying "I know a couple of people...," but I doubt you'd accept it if I told you I knew a few CIA employees who were perfectly happy with Bush.)

 

[Dr Grump]

So, when "dilute, deflect, misdirect" doesn't work, we go straight to "OK, they did it, but it's no big deal"? This is sad, people.

Why is it sad? All the NYT has done is tell the rest of the world what terrorists and anybody with half a brain already knew. Hardly a big deal...

 

[musicman]

Why is it sad? All the NYT has done is tell the rest of the world what terrorists and anybody with half a brain already knew. Hardly a big deal...

Gee, Dr Grump - the Secretary of the Treasury begs to differ with you:

"You have defended your decision to compromise this program by asserting that "terror financiers know" our methods for tracking their funds and have already moved to other methods to send money. The fact that your editors believe themselves to be qualified to assess how terrorists are moving money betrays a breathtaking arrogance and a deep misunderstanding of this program and how it works. While terrorists are relying more heavily than before on cumbersome methods to move money, such as cash couriers, we have continued to see them using the formal financial system, which has made this particular program incredibly valuable."

As Hobbit and I were discussing, that "half a brain" stuff can get you into real trouble!

 

[Hobbit]

Why is it sad? All the NYT has done is tell the rest of the world what terrorists and anybody with half a brain already knew. Hardly a big deal...

You know for a fact that the terrorists already knew exactly how efficient we were at tracking their bank records? Apparently, top officials at the Pentagon disagree, as they deemed the information classified. For some reason, I think their credentials trump yours.

 

[Dr Grump]

Gee, Dr Grump - the Secretary of the Treasury begs to differ with you:

"You have defended your decision to compromise this program by asserting that "terror financiers know" our methods for tracking their funds and have already moved to other methods to send money. The fact that your editors believe themselves to be qualified to assess how terrorists are moving money betrays a breathtaking arrogance and a deep misunderstanding of this program and how it works. While terrorists are relying more heavily than before on cumbersome methods to move money, such as cash couriers, we have continued to see them using the formal financial system, which has made this particular program incredibly valuable."

As Hobbit and I were discussing, that "half a brain" stuff can get you into real trouble!

The Secretary of the Treasury is guessing....at best...

 

[Dr Grump]

You know for a fact that the terrorists already knew exactly how efficient we were at tracking their bank records? Apparently, top officials at the Pentagon disagree, as they deemed the information classified. For some reason, I think their credentials trump yours.

Are those Pentagon folk the same ones on the team that said Iraq had WMDs? And if they were so efficient, how many terrorists have been arrested as a direct result of following said records over the past 5 years?

 

[Hobbit]

The Secretary of the Treasury is guessing....at best...

And you're a psychic, too, huh? Tell me, where do you get this vast store of information?

 

[musicman]

The Secretary of the Treasury is guessing....at best...

I honestly don't know what to say.

One of the secretary's terms comes to mind, though: ",,breathtaking arrogance".

I've got to say that I give his - and the administration's - "guesses' a little more weight than the NYT's - or yours.

 

[Dr Grump]

And you're a psychic, too, huh? Tell me, where do you get this vast store of information?

Are folks at the Pentagon psychic's too?

 

[Dr Grump]

I honestly don't know what to say.

One of the secretary's terms comes to mind, though: ",,breathtaking arrogance".

I've got to say that I give his - and the administration's - "guesses' a little more weight than the NYT's - or yours.

Thing is, I give this admin NO weight. And it is arrogant of the NYT to think that for sure, but I still say any terrorist with half a brain knows attempts are being made to trace them. To treat them like idiots is also arrogant, and to think this story is news to them is also arrogant.

I also know conservatives HATE the NYT at the best of times, so I also take that into consideration when reading these threads.

 

[musicman]

Are those Pentagon folk the same ones on the team that said Iraq had WMDs? And if they were so efficient, how many terrorists have been arrested as a direct result of following said records over the past 5 years?

You're just flailing now. Why don't you take off the "damage control" helmet and just admit that the NYT have finally, irrevocably stepped on their dicks? Come to the light, Dr Grump...there's truth and peace in the light...

 

[musicman]

Thing is, I give this admin NO weight. And it is arrogant of the NYT to think that for sure, but I still say any terrorist with half a brain knows attempts are being made to trace them. To treat them like idiots is also arrogant, and to think this story is news to them is also arrogant.

I also know conservatives HATE the NYT at the best of times, so I also take that into consideration when reading these threads.

Don't fear the light, Dr Grump...it is your friend...

 

[Dr Grump]

You're just flailing now. Why don't you take off the "damage control" helmet and just admit that the NYT have finally, irrevocably stepped on their dicks? Come to the light, Dr Grump...there's truth and peace in the light...

STRAWMEN TO THE BRIDGE - DILUTE, DEFLECT, MISDIRECT - DIVE! DIVE! DIVE!

 

[jillian]

Gee, Dr Grump - the Secretary of the Treasury begs to differ with you:

And the Secy of the Treasury was appointed by??? LOL!

 

[Annie]

And the Secy of the Treasury was appointed by??? LOL!

The man that was elected to appoint him? And Keller has the right to undermine national security? By what power?

 

[CSM]

Oh...I dunno. Far more damaging to getting intel is outing an agent (even a former one) and endangering all of her contacts because her husband doesn't say the right stuff

Pure exagerration.

 

[CSM]

The Secretary of the Treasury is guessing....at best...

And of course you are not. Making public the fact that we are tracking the money is one thing....explaining exactly HOW we are doing that is another.

But then, you knew that and are industriously ignoring it and hoping like hell no one will bring it up, aren't you.

 

[CSM]

Are those Pentagon folk the same ones on the team that said Iraq had WMDs? And if they were so efficient, how many terrorists have been arrested as a direct result of following said records over the past 5 years?

At least one is known to have been caught that way...do a bit of googling about the terrorists responsible for the Bali bombings. There are more, but exactly who and how is classified...heh.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

It's pretty simple in my eyes. What they printed was entirely irresponsible, but if you prosecute them criminally you're just pushing yourself down a crisco-covered rusty razorblade-filled slope. Odd that everyone is obsessed with a newspaper divulging information rather than an obvious inability of an administration to keep in-house things in-house.

There's not doubt the leak was wrong, but the information has a much greater chance of making into enemy hand when published in a major newspaper. Wouldn't you agree? It's odd you try to focus blame solely on the leaker.