Moms demand guns....a new PSA featuring Dana Loesch for women who want guns to protect their family.

[Brain357]

No she didn't. Is that still the one example you have?

Brain...tell the women who are raped because they did not have a gun but their attacker had a gun, a knife or physical superiority that they could have easily bested the violent sociopath using unarmed combatives....

As a former self defense instructor I am telling you, you are insane.

The results speak for themselves. Far more effective than owning a gun.

You are nuts.

Ok lets see the results of what I am suggesting:
The researchers followed up with the women after six months, then a year. At the one-year mark, the women who received the resistance training were less likely to have fallen victim to completed rape than the control group, with 5.2% self-reporting victimization vs. 9.8% in the control group. The risk reduction was even greater for attempted rape, with a ratio of 3.4% in the group who got the training, compared with 9.3% in the group who did not.

Now you are suggesting something that will not help at all in the vast majority of rapes and often has results like this:
Woman accidentally kills self adjusting bra holster
A Michigan woman accidentally shot herself to death last month while adjusting the .22-caliber revolver in her bra holster, police said Wednesday.

I think it is clear I am giving the better advice.

Wow...a whole 6 months on a college campus....one of the safest places for a woman to be.

Then why are you gun nuts trying to get guns on college campuses?

I know great results but since they don't involve a gun you don't care. You have no interest in lowering rape, just selling more guns!

 

[Brain357]

44% of victims under 18, can't own a gun
80% are committed by someone the victim knows, not going to use a gun for defense.

Hmm...sounds like bullshit to me. Offhand, I watched my uncle draw and cock on his brother in law. Had he not backed down, my uncle WOULD have fired, and my father WOULD NOT have survived.

They are rape statistics. You can find them all over the internet.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Reread my post until you actually understand it.

 

[Brain357]

Sheriff: Woman accidentally shot by gun in her purse

Again.....in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands....

And.....over 12.8 million people actually carrying guns on their person for self defense......

505.

And it's 500 more than most countries have. We have more accidental gun deaths than most civilized countries have homicides with guns.

 

[Brain357]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

 

[Brain357]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

Most gun owners own many. Think about how many on here say they own over 100. With 300 million guns that would only be 3 million gun owners. Now obviously everyone doesn't have 100, but even I have 10. If the average gun owner has ten then that is only 30 million owners. The number is certainly way less than 100 million.

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

44% of victims under 18, can't own a gun
80% are committed by someone the victim knows, not going to use a gun for defense.
And a high percent involve drugs or alcohol so the victim can't effectively use a gun.

Want to really prevent rape?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/12/health/college-rape-prevention-program-proves-a-rare-success.html

Not interested cause it doesn't sell more guns right?

Brain...your stupidity is showing.....unarmed defense by a woman against a man who most likely will be armed with a knife or a gun is just insane. Only in hollywood is a woman equal to a man in physical combat....you are a moron.

So since some rapes can't be stopped with a gun women should be forced to rely on physical strenght alone to stop all rapes....you really are a dipshit.

Successful self-defense by women

And here we have studies that show that guns are the most effective way to stop a rape.....
Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

********************

So, again a woman's best chance for stopping the rape and ultimately surviving the situation is to use a gun.....

Man, there is no amount of data that will convince the Mentally Disordered of anything. They're nuts... .

 

[Missourian]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

One in three Americans. Not one in three adult Americans. One in three Americans.

330 million Americans divided by three.

It's simple arithmetic.

110 million gun owners.

Argue with the authors of the 2014 study.

 

[Brain357]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

View attachment 50124

One in three Americans. Not one in three adult Americans. One in three Americans.

330 million Americans divided by three.

It's simple arithmetic.

110 million gun owners.

Argue with the authors of the 2014 study.

Can you link the actual study? It is obviously counter to every other study and survey. And we'll kids don't own guns so it's probably a third of households like other studies.

 

[Brain357]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

View attachment 50124

One in three Americans. Not one in three adult Americans. One in three Americans.

330 million Americans divided by three.

It's simple arithmetic.

110 million gun owners.

Argue with the authors of the 2014 study.

Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNNPolitics.com

 

[2aguy]

This is why I discuss this with you brain...I always find new information...

the myths surrounding the Sandy Hook shooter...there is nothing in his background that would have kept him from getting a gun on his own........so his mother having guns was not a factor in the shooting, he could have gotten the same guns himself...or others.....and done the same thing...

Mass Murder Myths About Sandy Hook and Adam Lanza

Lanza did not have the sort of psychiatric (or criminal) history that would have disqualified him from owning firearms, which is one reason strengthening the background check system for gun buyers makes no sense as a response to the Sandy Hook massacre.

He used her guns so is a factor. That is one of the results of you suggesting moms should all have guns.

And again, millions of homes have guns in them and no one in the home uses them to murder people. Nothing in his history would have barrred him from getting his own gun so if she had no guns he still could have done what he did.

The fact remains he used his moms guns. Must make your happy she was armed.

This is why I discuss this with you brain...I always find new information...

the myths surrounding the Sandy Hook shooter...there is nothing in his background that would have kept him from getting a gun on his own........so his mother having guns was not a factor in the shooting, he could have gotten the same guns himself...or others.....and done the same thing...

Mass Murder Myths About Sandy Hook and Adam Lanza

Lanza did not have the sort of psychiatric (or criminal) history that would have disqualified him from owning firearms, which is one reason strengthening the background check system for gun buyers makes no sense as a response to the Sandy Hook massacre.

He used her guns so is a factor. That is one of the results of you suggesting moms should all have guns.

And all the lives saved and crimes stopped by people who own guns, which outnumber criminal uses of guns are also a factor....

No they don't outnumber criminal uses. Sorry. There are maybe 100k defenses each year. That's is dwarfed by the number of criminal uses.

You know you are lying....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


Page 7:



The most important of the other set of questions asked:



Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?



This is largely identical to the standard question from the other surveys, but the reference period is 1 year rather than 5 years. The question also refers to the respondent alone, rather than to all household members.



Page 8: "Because gun ownership is a strong correlate of firearm resistance (e.g., Kleck and Gertz, 1996, p. 187), we selected a national sample from commercial lists of likely gun owners. Of the eventual respondents, 83% did report the presence of a gun in their home."



Page 8: "This left 3006 households, an 81% response rate. The interviewers selected a single respondent from within each household. In a random 75% of the cases, the interviewers asked for the male head of household. In the remaining 25% they asked for the female head."



Page 10: "Table II. Types of Incidents of Firearm Defense...."



Type of Incident

Number of
Respondents

Percentage of
Respondents

No incident 2851 94.8%
Civilian against offender, clear 48 1.6%
Civilian against offender, ambiguous 24 0.8%
Law enforcement and security work 30 1.0%
Civilian against possible offender, no contact 20 0.7%
Against animals 13 0.4%
Carries gun for protection only 10 0.3%
Target shooting 8 0.3%
Military duties 2 0.1%

-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Lying? The vast majority of your own studies say less than 2 million. Show me mathematically given crime and ownership rates that 2 million is even possible.

I gave you a list of studies with at least 2 over 2 million and another 5 or so over 1 million. One of them by the anti gun bill clinton who had his Department of Justice create a study, by 2 anti gun researchers, to debunk Kleck's study…and they found 1.5 million defensive uses a year…and they designed and executed their own study.

 

[2aguy]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

View attachment 50124

One in three Americans. Not one in three adult Americans. One in three Americans.

330 million Americans divided by three.

It's simple arithmetic.

110 million gun owners.

Argue with the authors of the 2014 study.

Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNNPolitics.com

That data comes from the General Social Survey……created by an anti gun guy who specifically stated he hoped his results would end up getting politicians to pass more gun control…..it was also an anonymous survey over land lines which expected gun owners in this environment to admit they own guns…….not happening.

Other polls, like Zogby show the rate is about the same as always…..

 

[2aguy]

Brain...tell the women who are raped because they did not have a gun but their attacker had a gun, a knife or physical superiority that they could have easily bested the violent sociopath using unarmed combatives....

As a former self defense instructor I am telling you, you are insane.

The results speak for themselves. Far more effective than owning a gun.

You are nuts.

Ok lets see the results of what I am suggesting:
The researchers followed up with the women after six months, then a year. At the one-year mark, the women who received the resistance training were less likely to have fallen victim to completed rape than the control group, with 5.2% self-reporting victimization vs. 9.8% in the control group. The risk reduction was even greater for attempted rape, with a ratio of 3.4% in the group who got the training, compared with 9.3% in the group who did not.

Now you are suggesting something that will not help at all in the vast majority of rapes and often has results like this:
Woman accidentally kills self adjusting bra holster
A Michigan woman accidentally shot herself to death last month while adjusting the .22-caliber revolver in her bra holster, police said Wednesday.

I think it is clear I am giving the better advice.

Wow...a whole 6 months on a college campus....one of the safest places for a woman to be.

Then why are you gun nuts trying to get guns on college campuses?

I know great results but since they don't involve a gun you don't care. You have no interest in lowering rape, just selling more guns!

**** you brain, you are the one who wants to keep women from using the most effective tool to actually stop rape. College campuses are more than 17 year olds, staff, and older students and just by making the campus a concealed carry zone you drive away criminals. Gun Free zones draw criminals like flies…...

 

[2aguy]

Sheriff: Woman accidentally shot by gun in her purse

Again.....in 2013 there were only 505 accidental gun deaths in a country of over 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands....

And.....over 12.8 million people actually carrying guns on their person for self defense......

505.

And it's 500 more than most countries have. We have more accidental gun deaths than most civilized countries have homicides with guns.

So……505 out of 320 million people with over 320 million guns in private hands…..you can't get more responsible than that….unless you start to teach gun safety in public schools, which would help lower even that low rate of accidents….but you gun grabbers don't care about dead children…they are your best propaganda tool…..

 

[Brain357]

He used her guns so is a factor. That is one of the results of you suggesting moms should all have guns.

And again, millions of homes have guns in them and no one in the home uses them to murder people. Nothing in his history would have barrred him from getting his own gun so if she had no guns he still could have done what he did.

The fact remains he used his moms guns. Must make your happy she was armed.

He used her guns so is a factor. That is one of the results of you suggesting moms should all have guns.

And all the lives saved and crimes stopped by people who own guns, which outnumber criminal uses of guns are also a factor....

No they don't outnumber criminal uses. Sorry. There are maybe 100k defenses each year. That's is dwarfed by the number of criminal uses.

You know you are lying....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


Page 7:



The most important of the other set of questions asked:



Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?



This is largely identical to the standard question from the other surveys, but the reference period is 1 year rather than 5 years. The question also refers to the respondent alone, rather than to all household members.



Page 8: "Because gun ownership is a strong correlate of firearm resistance (e.g., Kleck and Gertz, 1996, p. 187), we selected a national sample from commercial lists of likely gun owners. Of the eventual respondents, 83% did report the presence of a gun in their home."



Page 8: "This left 3006 households, an 81% response rate. The interviewers selected a single respondent from within each household. In a random 75% of the cases, the interviewers asked for the male head of household. In the remaining 25% they asked for the female head."



Page 10: "Table II. Types of Incidents of Firearm Defense...."



Type of Incident

Number of
Respondents

Percentage of
Respondents

No incident 2851 94.8%
Civilian against offender, clear 48 1.6%
Civilian against offender, ambiguous 24 0.8%
Law enforcement and security work 30 1.0%
Civilian against possible offender, no contact 20 0.7%
Against animals 13 0.4%
Carries gun for protection only 10 0.3%
Target shooting 8 0.3%
Military duties 2 0.1%

-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Lying? The vast majority of your own studies say less than 2 million. Show me mathematically given crime and ownership rates that 2 million is even possible.

I gave you a list of studies with at least 2 over 2 million and another 5 or so over 1 million. One of them by the anti gun bill clinton who had his Department of Justice create a study, by 2 anti gun researchers, to debunk Kleck's study…and they found 1.5 million defensive uses a year…and they designed and executed their own study.

Yes so the evidence is overwhelmingly against it being 2 million or more. Your studies are very old, if adjusted for today's crime rates your claim is even more ridiculous.

 

[Brain357]

There are not 100,000,000 firearm owners. There are about 123 million households in the country and of those about 38% have guns. So far short of 100 million gun owners.

View attachment 50120

One in Three Americans Own Guns; Culture a Factor, Study Finds : NBCNews.com

"The study, published in the journal Injury Prevention, is one of several trying to pin down the number of gun owners in the United States. No agency keeps statistics on gun ownership and many pro-gun activists advocate keeping gun ownership private because of fears about potential future laws that might take guns away."
​

This study was conducted in 2014. So, let's do some arithmetic...one in three of a pool of 330,000,000 (330 million) equals 110 million gun owners...no need to argue with me...feel free to argue with the author of the study:

1. Correspondence to Dr Bindu Kalesan, Department of Epidemiology, Mailman School of Public Health, Columbia University, 722 W. 168th St., New York, NY 10032, USA; bindu.kalesan@gmail.com

​

There is a lot wrong with your math. Children can't even own guns, they are a big part of that 330 million.

From your article:
A Harvard team found in 2004 that 38 percent of households reported owning at least one firearm.

The latest General Social Survey found that 32 percent of Americans either own a firearm themselves or live with someone who does.

Living with someone does not make you an owner.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear
Gun ownership is one of the hardest things for researchers to pin down (as the Pew Research Center’s Michael Dimock, among others, discusses here). A Pew Research Center survey conducted in February found that 37% of households had an adult who owned a gun — 24% said they owned a gun, and 13% said someone else in their household did.

And again there are only like 123 million households.

View attachment 50124

One in three Americans. Not one in three adult Americans. One in three Americans.

330 million Americans divided by three.

It's simple arithmetic.

110 million gun owners.

Argue with the authors of the 2014 study.

Analysis: Fewer U.S. gun owners own more guns - CNNPolitics.com

That data comes from the General Social Survey……created by an anti gun guy who specifically stated he hoped his results would end up getting politicians to pass more gun control…..it was also an anonymous survey over land lines which expected gun owners in this environment to admit they own guns…….not happening.

Other polls, like Zogby show the rate is about the same as always…..

Just about everything has it well under 100 million.

 

[Brain357]

The results speak for themselves. Far more effective than owning a gun.

You are nuts.

Ok lets see the results of what I am suggesting:
The researchers followed up with the women after six months, then a year. At the one-year mark, the women who received the resistance training were less likely to have fallen victim to completed rape than the control group, with 5.2% self-reporting victimization vs. 9.8% in the control group. The risk reduction was even greater for attempted rape, with a ratio of 3.4% in the group who got the training, compared with 9.3% in the group who did not.

Now you are suggesting something that will not help at all in the vast majority of rapes and often has results like this:
Woman accidentally kills self adjusting bra holster
A Michigan woman accidentally shot herself to death last month while adjusting the .22-caliber revolver in her bra holster, police said Wednesday.

I think it is clear I am giving the better advice.

Wow...a whole 6 months on a college campus....one of the safest places for a woman to be.

Then why are you gun nuts trying to get guns on college campuses?

I know great results but since they don't involve a gun you don't care. You have no interest in lowering rape, just selling more guns!

**** you brain, you are the one who wants to keep women from using the most effective tool to actually stop rape. College campuses are more than 17 year olds, staff, and older students and just by making the campus a concealed carry zone you drive away criminals. Gun Free zones draw criminals like flies…...

You just said it is a really safe place. I rest my case. You want to sell guns, not make anything better.

 

[CremeBrulee]

unless you start to teach gun safety in public schools

I don't think that is a bad idea at all for some districts (rural in particular). As long as it is an elective and not taught by this guy:

 

[Brain357]

unless you start to teach gun safety in public schools

I don't think that is a bad idea at all for some districts (rural in particular). As long as it is an elective and not taught by this guy:

It might be a good idea, the guns aren't going away. My understanding is that the nra has videos, but they are political/pro gun and not really just safety.

 

[2aguy]

And again, millions of homes have guns in them and no one in the home uses them to murder people. Nothing in his history would have barrred him from getting his own gun so if she had no guns he still could have done what he did.

The fact remains he used his moms guns. Must make your happy she was armed.

And all the lives saved and crimes stopped by people who own guns, which outnumber criminal uses of guns are also a factor....

No they don't outnumber criminal uses. Sorry. There are maybe 100k defenses each year. That's is dwarfed by the number of criminal uses.

You know you are lying....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


Page 7:



The most important of the other set of questions asked:



Within the past 12 months, have you yourself used a gun, even if it was not fired, to protect yourself or someone else, or for the protection of property at home, work, or elsewhere?



This is largely identical to the standard question from the other surveys, but the reference period is 1 year rather than 5 years. The question also refers to the respondent alone, rather than to all household members.



Page 8: "Because gun ownership is a strong correlate of firearm resistance (e.g., Kleck and Gertz, 1996, p. 187), we selected a national sample from commercial lists of likely gun owners. Of the eventual respondents, 83% did report the presence of a gun in their home."



Page 8: "This left 3006 households, an 81% response rate. The interviewers selected a single respondent from within each household. In a random 75% of the cases, the interviewers asked for the male head of household. In the remaining 25% they asked for the female head."



Page 10: "Table II. Types of Incidents of Firearm Defense...."



Type of Incident

Number of
Respondents

Percentage of
Respondents

No incident 2851 94.8%
Civilian against offender, clear 48 1.6%
Civilian against offender, ambiguous 24 0.8%
Law enforcement and security work 30 1.0%
Civilian against possible offender, no contact 20 0.7%
Against animals 13 0.4%
Carries gun for protection only 10 0.3%
Target shooting 8 0.3%
Military duties 2 0.1%

-------------------------------------------
Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Lying? The vast majority of your own studies say less than 2 million. Show me mathematically given crime and ownership rates that 2 million is even possible.

I gave you a list of studies with at least 2 over 2 million and another 5 or so over 1 million. One of them by the anti gun bill clinton who had his Department of Justice create a study, by 2 anti gun researchers, to debunk Kleck's study…and they found 1.5 million defensive uses a year…and they designed and executed their own study.

Yes so the evidence is overwhelmingly against it being 2 million or more. Your studies are very old, if adjusted for today's crime rates your claim is even more ridiculous.

Again…..

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

5 studies put it over 2 million

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------



6 studies put it well over 1 million a year…


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....