Mistaken Identification In Red Flag Law

[Shawnee_b]

It happened to Jon Carpenter, in St. Cloud, Florida. He happened to have the same name as a homeless drug addict who was threatening an elderly woman with a gun. A red flag was ordered on the violent Jon Carpenter, and as officials were searching for an address and other information on him, they got him mixed up with peaceful Jon Carpenter.


The good guy Carpenter is Marine veteran and sport fisherman, and he does own guns and has a valid CCW permit. That was until Sheriff’s deputies knocked on his door to take his CCW and guns. This Carpenter doesn’t even match the description of the transient Carpenter.

“He’s 110 pounds. I’m 200. He has brown eyes. I have hazel. He has black hair. I have no hair,” Jon said, comparing himself to the other Jon Carpenter, who became the target of a risk protection order to remove any weapons he may possess.


“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/government-officials-seize-veterans-guns-in-mistaken-identification-in-red-flag-law-execution/

 

[OldLady]

It happened to Jon Carpenter, in St. Cloud, Florida. He happened to have the same name as a homeless drug addict who was threatening an elderly woman with a gun. A red flag was ordered on the violent Jon Carpenter, and as officials were searching for an address and other information on him, they got him mixed up with peaceful Jon Carpenter.


The good guy Carpenter is Marine veteran and sport fisherman, and he does own guns and has a valid CCW permit. That was until Sheriff’s deputies knocked on his door to take his CCW and guns. This Carpenter doesn’t even match the description of the transient Carpenter.

“He’s 110 pounds. I’m 200. He has brown eyes. I have hazel. He has black hair. I have no hair,” Jon said, comparing himself to the other Jon Carpenter, who became the target of a risk protection order to remove any weapons he may possess.


“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/government-officials-seize-veterans-guns-in-mistaken-identification-in-red-flag-law-execution/

This happened last summer--August 2019. Why is the Gateway Pundit dragging it back out like an old sock squirreled away by the dog?

At least it indicates there haven't been any other incidents of mistaken ID--or they wouldn't have to be resurrecting one from many months ago.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Oh there have been other incidents. 3500 red flag seizures in FLA alone, pundit does not cover all news.

Possibly it took from Aug till now because that is how long it took him to get his guns and rights back.

 

[OldLady]

Oh there have been other incidents. 3500 red flag seizures in FLA alone, pundit does not cover all news.

Possibly it took from Aug till now because that is how long it took him to get his guns and rights back.

No, it was straightened out as soon as he went to court in August. I remember reading about it.
3500 red flag seizures, but no screw ups reported.
The red flag laws are only for severe issues, Shawnee, and like Jon Carpenter you can go to court immediately to get them back if they were wrong. Red flag seizures have to be Ordered by a judge and they do not take removing guns lightly. There is no reason for gun owners to be so threatened by a law that has saved many lives. No one can prove a negative (how many shootings did not occur) but they know from talking to the gun owners that it has prevented a lot of suicides.

 

[Shawnee_b]

It wasn't immediate. It was also a screwup in FL.

“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

One is not provided a lawyer in the hearing with the Judge. Pay all costs yourself.

It's unconstitutional both US and state, violates due process. That's just ex in FL, states differ,,, CO is not happy.

"But the laws are more complicated than usually discussed in the press. Depending upon the state, anyone from a family member, intimate partner, ex, house or apartment mates, or police can file a complaint. Under Colorado’s proposed law, anyone can make a phone call to the police. They don’t even have to be living in the state. There is no hearing. All the judge has before them is the statement of concern.

Little certainty is needed. Some states allow initial confiscations on just a “reasonable suspicion,” which is little more than a guess or a hunch. Others at least mandate “probable cause” that the individual is dangerous. These standards allow a judge to take away a person’s right to self-defense when there is significantly less than 50 percent chance of something bad happening." WTimes

 

[martybegan]

Oh there have been other incidents. 3500 red flag seizures in FLA alone, pundit does not cover all news.

Possibly it took from Aug till now because that is how long it took him to get his guns and rights back.

No, it was straightened out as soon as he went to court in August. I remember reading about it.
3500 red flag seizures, but no screw ups reported.
The red flag laws are only for severe issues, Shawnee, and like Jon Carpenter you can go to court immediately to get them back if they were wrong. Red flag seizures have to be Ordered by a judge and they do not take removing guns lightly. There is no reason for gun owners to be so threatened by a law that has saved many lives. No one can prove a negative (how many shootings did not occur) but they know from talking to the gun owners that it has prevented a lot of suicides.

How much should the government pay him for the screw up?

It wasn't "immediate" you liar.

 

[Flash]

Oh there have been other incidents. 3500 red flag seizures in FLA alone, pundit does not cover all news.

Possibly it took from Aug till now because that is how long it took him to get his guns and rights back.

No, it was straightened out as soon as he went to court in August. I remember reading about it.
3500 red flag seizures, but no screw ups reported.
The red flag laws are only for severe issues, Shawnee, and like Jon Carpenter you can go to court immediately to get them back if they were wrong. Red flag seizures have to be Ordered by a judge and they do not take removing guns lightly. There is no reason for gun owners to be so threatened by a law that has saved many lives. No one can prove a negative (how many shootings did not occur) but they know from talking to the gun owners that it has prevented a lot of suicides.

The filthy government should not have the procedure that you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Rd Flag laws are not only wrong but they are anti American in every sense of the word.

It is the same way with the goddamn sorry ass firearm background checks. You are presumed guilty until the government finds out if you are innocent.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Red flag law used against young kids “shocking,” says Florida Senator
I-team investigation found kids as young as 8-years-old banned from guns under new law

Red flag law used against young kids “shocking,” says Florida Senator

These 8 year olds don't have guns or access. Calling it 'risk protection orders" Varies by county. 5-20% are kids.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Twenty-nine of New Mexico’s 33 Sheriffs signed a statement against a red flag law, universal background checks, and other gun controls being pushed by the state’s Democrat lawmakers.

New Mexico Democrats are also pushing gun storage laws.

CBS 7 quoted Lea County Sheriff Corey Helton saying, “You’re just taking guns out of law-abiding citizen’s hands. This is not going to affect the criminals out there. They’re going to be able to get guns and they do not follow the law.”

29 of New Mexico's 33 Sheriffs Sign Letter Against Red Flag Law

 

[Shawnee_b]

Florida’s Failed 'Red Flag' Law Sees Massive Numbers of Gun Confiscation ⋆ The Washington Sentinel

The State of Florida has seen a large number of very shady cases of gun confiscation since it enacted its un-American red flag law in 2018.

Showing exactly why so-called “red flag” laws are dangerously un-American, the State of Florida has seen a large number of very shady cases of gun confiscation since it enacted its red flag law in 2018.


In just over a year, this un-American law has been used more than 3,500 times to take away the Second Amendment rights of Floridians.

That is an obscene number of cases in such a short period of time.

Per the Associated Press:

Trending: Leftist Mob Attacks Conservative ‘Gun Girl’ At Ohio University

The law, supported by legislators of both parties, has been applied more than 3,500 times since, with the pace accelerating during the last half of 2019. Even so, an Associated Press analysis of the law showed its use is inconsistent, with some counties and cities using it rarely and others not at all.

Advocates of Florida’s red flag measure say before it existed, it was often difficult to remove firearms from those making threats or suffering severe mental breakdowns. Investigators did not act on reports that the Parkland shooter was threatening to carry out a school massacre. But even if they had, it is likely he would have been allowed to keep his guns because he had no felony convictions or involuntary, long-term mental commitments, they say.

Naturally, the AP lied with its headline.

As Jazz Shaw pointed out, the AP’s headline said “hundreds of guns” have been confiscated, but it is in fact THOUSANDS of guns that have been stolen by the state.

Shaw also noted that the numbers seem to show that some Florida counties are abusing the law:

As the report reveals, there are two counties in the panhandle where authorities have only issued one red flag order for every 100,000 residents. Nine other, mostly rural counties, have issued none at all since the law took effect. But at the other end of the scale, multiple counties have issued one for every 5,500 residents. One other (Highlands County) issued one for every 850 people living there. That’s got to be a significant portion of the guns in the county.

Are we honestly supposed to believe that some of those counties are chock full of crazy people while others have no issues at all? Or could it be that some counties have judges and/or sheriffs that are far more likely to approve gun confiscations than others? The sheriff in the top gun-grabbing county, Paul Blackman, told the AP that he has “no idea” why his county is number one but noted that his deputies receive frequent calls about mental health crisis situations.


So, how does this law work? It allows police to batter down doors, steal a citizen’s firearms, and even incarcerate them just on the say-so of someone. Police don’t have to prove a thing. They just have to take the word of anyone who decides they don’t like the targeted person.

Worse, since it is not a criminal proceeding, the targeted citizen has no right to state supplied counsel and have to pay for their own legal fees whether they can afford it or not. And that means only the rich can afford to fight these confiscations in court.

As Shaw noted, this law is ripe for abuse and there are damn few safeguards in place to stop that abuse.

What could be more un-American than the summary elimination of a citizen’s Constitutional rights like this?

 

[Ridgerunner]

No, it was straightened out as soon as he went to court in August. I remember reading about it.

With all due respect OldLady , ...

3500 red flag seizures, but no screw ups reported.

So naïve...

No one can prove a negative (how many shootings did not occur) but they know from talking to the gun owners that it has prevented a lot of suicides.

I call ...

 

[satrebil]

It happened to Jon Carpenter, in St. Cloud, Florida. He happened to have the same name as a homeless drug addict who was threatening an elderly woman with a gun. A red flag was ordered on the violent Jon Carpenter, and as officials were searching for an address and other information on him, they got him mixed up with peaceful Jon Carpenter.


The good guy Carpenter is Marine veteran and sport fisherman, and he does own guns and has a valid CCW permit. That was until Sheriff’s deputies knocked on his door to take his CCW and guns. This Carpenter doesn’t even match the description of the transient Carpenter.

“He’s 110 pounds. I’m 200. He has brown eyes. I have hazel. He has black hair. I have no hair,” Jon said, comparing himself to the other Jon Carpenter, who became the target of a risk protection order to remove any weapons he may possess.


“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/government-officials-seize-veterans-guns-in-mistaken-identification-in-red-flag-law-execution/

This happened last summer--August 2019. Why is the Gateway Pundit dragging it back out like an old sock squirreled away by the dog?

At least it indicates there haven't been any other incidents of mistaken ID--or they wouldn't have to be resurrecting one from many months ago.

Because it took this long to get resolved, doofus. For 6 months this man was denied his Constitutional rights over this bullshit law. But I'm sure you're fine with that.

 

[OldLady]

No, it was straightened out as soon as he went to court in August. I remember reading about it.

With all due respect OldLady , ...

3500 red flag seizures, but no screw ups reported.

So naïve...

No one can prove a negative (how many shootings did not occur) but they know from talking to the gun owners that it has prevented a lot of suicides.

I call ...

I'm crushed that you don't trust me, but here ya go:
Red flag laws: Mistaken identity leads to revocation of veteran's firearms license
"Then, he finally comes out, and he's like you basically have to go to court on the 27th, in two weeks. So I said, 'I'm guilty until I prove myself innocent? That’s why I'm here, trying to show its not me.' And he’s like, 'Since you‘re here, you’ve been served. Here’s your restraining order,'” Carpenter recalled.

He finally connected with someone in the sheriff’s office, who helped him get the injunction dismissed and called the state to get his firearms license reinstated.

"They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, 'So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?'”

Carpenter persisted and got it straightened out sooner than that, but he says his experience of mistaken identity is a red flag, in itself, for politicians who promote the red flags laws and trust the bureaucrats to get it right.

Red flag law - Wikipedia
Effects[edit]
A 2016 study published in the journal Law and Contemporary Problems analyzed data from the 762 gun removals under Connecticut's "risk warrant" law from October 1999 through June 2013 and determined that there was "one averted suicide for every ten to eleven gun seizure cases."[53] The researchers concluded that "enacting and implementing laws like Connecticut’s civil risk warrant statute in other states could significantly mitigate the risk posed by that small proportion of legal gun owners who, at times, may pose a significant danger to themselves or others."[53]

A 2018 study published in the journal Psychiatric Services utilized CDC data from all suicides in all 50 states from 1981-2015 to "examine the effects of Connecticut and Indiana's risk-based firearm seizure law on state-level firearm suicide rates."[54] The researchers concluded that "Indiana’s firearm seizure law was associated with a 7.5% reduction in firearm suicides in the ten years following its enactment, an effect specific to suicides with firearms and larger than that seen in any comparison state by chance alone. Enactment of Connecticut's law was associated with a 1.6% reduction in firearm suicides immediately after its passage and a 13.7% reduction in firearm suicides in the post–Virginia Tech period, when enforcement of the law substantially increased." The study also found that "Whereas Indiana demonstrated an aggregate decrease in suicides, Connecticut's estimated reduction in firearm suicides was offset by increased non-firearm suicides."[54]

A preliminary case series published in the Annals of Internal Medicine in 2019 analyzed the use of ERPOs in California, and found that the cases studied suggest that California's red-flag law, as a form of "urgent, individualized intervention ... can play a role in efforts to prevent mass shootings."[52]

In light of the fact that 62% of U.S. gun deaths from 2008 to 2017 were suicides, the potential for red flag laws to prevent suicide has been cited as a benefit that may be more valuable than their ability to prevent mass shootings.[55]

 

[OldLady]

It happened to Jon Carpenter, in St. Cloud, Florida. He happened to have the same name as a homeless drug addict who was threatening an elderly woman with a gun. A red flag was ordered on the violent Jon Carpenter, and as officials were searching for an address and other information on him, they got him mixed up with peaceful Jon Carpenter.


The good guy Carpenter is Marine veteran and sport fisherman, and he does own guns and has a valid CCW permit. That was until Sheriff’s deputies knocked on his door to take his CCW and guns. This Carpenter doesn’t even match the description of the transient Carpenter.

“He’s 110 pounds. I’m 200. He has brown eyes. I have hazel. He has black hair. I have no hair,” Jon said, comparing himself to the other Jon Carpenter, who became the target of a risk protection order to remove any weapons he may possess.


“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/government-officials-seize-veterans-guns-in-mistaken-identification-in-red-flag-law-execution/

This happened last summer--August 2019. Why is the Gateway Pundit dragging it back out like an old sock squirreled away by the dog?

At least it indicates there haven't been any other incidents of mistaken ID--or they wouldn't have to be resurrecting one from many months ago.

Because it took this long to get resolved, doofus. For 6 months this man was denied his Constitutional rights over this bullshit law. But I'm sure you're fine with that.

Read my last post. You must be talking about a different case.

 

[OldLady]

It wasn't immediate. It was also a screwup in FL.

“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

After months of defending himself and fighting the phony order, the good-guy Jon Carpenter eventually got his rights back. But he had to prove his own innocence in the face of assumed guilt.

One is not provided a lawyer in the hearing with the Judge. Pay all costs yourself.

It's unconstitutional both US and state, violates due process. That's just ex in FL, states differ,,, CO is not happy.

"But the laws are more complicated than usually discussed in the press. Depending upon the state, anyone from a family member, intimate partner, ex, house or apartment mates, or police can file a complaint. Under Colorado’s proposed law, anyone can make a phone call to the police. They don’t even have to be living in the state. There is no hearing. All the judge has before them is the statement of concern.

Little certainty is needed. Some states allow initial confiscations on just a “reasonable suspicion,” which is little more than a guess or a hunch. Others at least mandate “probable cause” that the individual is dangerous. These standards allow a judge to take away a person’s right to self-defense when there is significantly less than 50 percent chance of something bad happening." WTimes

The article I just posted from Fox News said he got it back SOONER than the two week court hearing.
Where did you get yours?

 

[Shawnee_b]

The article I just posted from Fox News said he got it back SOONER than the two week court hearing.
Where did you get yours?

You know where I got it, I linked it. He may have gotten to see the Judge in 2 weeks but it took much longer. He did get to go to the Sheriff and explain he is not the perp. Sheriff says, "good, you're here, you're served" Go ahead read it.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Most gun laws suck.....do away with them all....the more guns in everyone's hands, the better....

 

[Shawnee_b]

thegatewaypundit.com/2020/02/government-officials-seize-veterans-guns-in-mistaken-identification-in-red-flag-law-execution/

For the third time now, read it. At least the bold underlined parts. 1 day is TOO long not to mention it's akin to incarcerating an innocent.

Jon is a veteran, sports fisherman, and law-abiding gun owner from St. Cloud, who just happens to have the same name as a drifter who threatened an elderly couple.

“He’s 110 pounds. I’m 200. He has brown eyes. I have hazel. He has black hair. I have no hair,” Jon said, comparing himself to the other Jon Carpenter, who became the target of a risk protection order to remove any weapons he may possess.

But the veteran, fisherman, 200-pound Jon Carpenter was sent a certified letter from the state, suspending his firearms license.

“I was just dumbfounded. I didn’t know what to do. I called the state and they basically said, ‘There’s an injunction against you,’” Carpenter explained.

He also received a notice that he had been reported to DCF for elder abuse and a state order to surrender any firearms.

“The state basically said, If it’s not you, go to the courthouse. They’ll give you a letter and they’ll get you reinstated,” said Carpenter.

But that’s not how it played out.

“Then, he finally comes out, and he’s like you basically have to go to court on the 27th, in two weeks. So I said, ‘I’m guilty until I prove myself innocent? That’s why I’m here, trying to show its not me.’ And he’s like, ‘Since you‘re here, you’ve been served. Here’s your restraining order,’” Carpenter recalled.

He finally connected with someone in the sheriff’s office, who helped him get the injunction dismissed and called the state to get his firearms license reinstated.

“They said they process it in the order it was received and it takes 6-8 weeks. I was like, ‘So you can suspend it in one day, instantly, but for somebody else’s mistake, I’ve got to wait 6-8 weeks?’”

 

[whitehall]

Shit happens, mistaken identity happens and sometimes people have their identity stolen. It's life in the modern world. Carpenter didn't have to "prove his innocence" he had to wait a little longer to buy a freaking gun.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Most gun laws suck.....do away with them all....the more guns in everyone's hands, the better....

Good avatar, give him/her a gun too. More gunz!!!!