Mississippi about to turn up the stupid?

[Inthemiddle]

My wish is to see humanity treat itself in humane ways.

We are not doing that. We are not behaving as a human race, but as a human racetrack.
And we are on a racetrack to moral ruin by disposing of ourselves like so much garbage.

And that is the reason you support law that would force a woman to die in order to save an unviable pregnancy? Because that's how humanity exhibits self respect?

 

[Mr Natural]

There's a reason why they put Mississippi in the South.

 

[Mr. H.]

My wish is to see humanity treat itself in humane ways.

We are not doing that. We are not behaving as a human race, but as a human racetrack.
And we are on a racetrack to moral ruin by disposing of ourselves like so much garbage.

And that is the reason you support law that would force a woman to die in order to save an unviable pregnancy? Because that's how humanity exhibits self respect?

I never stated or even intimated as such.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Nothing to prove. Once that sperm burrows in, Life has started.

Prove it doesnt!!

You are arguing from ignorance. I, nor anybody else, has any burden to prove you wrong. You have to prove the proposition. And you need to prove the proposition within the context of the argument. Nobody is saying that a fertilized egg isn't "life." A virus is a form of life, after all. But a fertilized egg is not a human being. Medical science certainly does not support such a notion. If you want to believe that it is, that's your right. But it is well beyond the legitimate exercise of government power to legislate the adoption of a belief that will require people to roll over and die, based on a belief that is not supported by facts.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I never stated or even intimated as such.

You certainly have intimated as such. I can gather no other meaning from your posts. Perhaps you'll be so kind as to spell it out.

 

[Katzndogz]

There is no scientific theory that defines a fertilized human egg as anything other than a human being. It is not a different species that somehow becomes a human being later. It takes as much religious belief (or more) that a fertilized human egg is something other than a human being as it does to say that it is a human being.

I agreed with the premise that there should be some circumstances that are so extreme that a woman should have the right to terminate a pregnancy before the fertilized egg becomes viable. In full recognition of that egg's humanity! Abortion has become far more than a recognition of extreme circumstances where survival is at stake. It has become a form of after the fact birth control with intense pressure applied for a woman to have an abortion instead of a baby. Whatever line there was intended to be supporting abortion, it has long ago been crossed.

 

[Full-Auto]

Nothing to prove. Once that sperm burrows in, Life has started.

Prove it doesnt!!

You are arguing from ignorance. I, nor anybody else, has any burden to prove you wrong. You have to prove the proposition. And you need to prove the proposition within the context of the argument. Nobody is saying that a fertilized egg isn't "life." A virus is a form of life, after all. But a fertilized egg is not a human being. Medical science certainly does not support such a notion. If you want to believe that it is, that's your right. But it is well beyond the legitimate exercise of government power to legislate the adoption of a belief that will require people to roll over and die, based on a belief that is not supported by facts.

Life begins when the sperm burrows in and takes hold. That is science fact.

Try something else straw man.

 

[Unkotare]

Referendum will define a fertilized egg as a legal person.

Will a miscarriage become murder? Or is that suicide? .

Is it murder or suicide every time a person dies?

You mentioned 'turning up the stupid'?


You were in such a hurry to make what you thought was just an oh-so-clever comment that you poured the stupid all over yourself.


Finding a lot of satisfaction in your pro-death agenda, are you?

 

[Katzndogz]

My wish is to see humanity treat itself in humane ways.

We are not doing that. We are not behaving as a human race, but as a human racetrack.
And we are on a racetrack to moral ruin by disposing of ourselves like so much garbage.

And that is the reason you support law that would force a woman to die in order to save an unviable pregnancy? Because that's how humanity exhibits self respect?

I take it that you support laws prohibiting abortion in all cases except where the woman's life is at stake.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

If Sam kills Sarah and Sarah was pregnant with a child she chose to have, did Sam commit one murder or two murders?

It would be murder with special circumstance and carry a heftier sentence.

 

[Steelplate]

But I imagine that God will bless those who protect the life of the unborn. Life is sacred. It's a gift from God. And you may find it mindnumbingly stupid, but that doesnt eliminate the intrinsic beauty of life.

Oh, and since when was your religious beliefs a good reason to justify extreme laws over others who don't believe as you do?

Since the first amendment guarenteed freedom of expression.

Ok... so let's review....

Since the Majority of Americans are Christians, then the laws of the land should be christian based laws... right?

At the same time...90% of Americans are Considered middle class or lower, but Conservatives are all about protecting the top 10%.... Actually... the top 1% and are against Democracy because it's "mob rule"

hypocrites.

 

[Dr.Traveler]

In the case of risk to a mother's life, like ectopic pregnancy specifically, I'd imagine that an abortion procedure would fall under self defense laws, which already cover those "him or me" kind of scenarios. I find it unlikely that any prosecutor would push those cases into court.

In the case of miscarriage, under this you would handle it like any other death is handled. If there were signs of foul play you look at a manslaughter or murder investigation and charges.

Invitro is done under this. Making that process comply with the law would make it outrageous. Birth control is in really strange waters with this, as the pill can cause fertilized eggs to fail to implant.

Once you hear the ultrasound, most rational folks agree that the baby is, well, a baby. I agree with the idea, but codifying it into law seems like it opens pandora's box.

I'm thinking a much better use of time and cash is giving kids some condoms and making them care for a kid for a few days. Guarantee the demand for abortions and the unmarried birth rate would go down.

 

[Vaard]

If Sam kills Sarah and Sarah was pregnant with a child she chose to have, did Sam commit one murder or two murders?

it depends......

if sarah was on her way to an abortion clinic to abort the child... or expressed that she was planning on having an abortion... then it would be 1 murder.....

if sarah planned on keeping the child, then it would be 2 murders.......

 

[Steelplate]

In the case of risk to a mother's life, like ectopic pregnancy specifically, I'd imagine that an abortion procedure would fall under self defense laws, which already cover those "him or me" kind of scenarios. I find it unlikely that any prosecutor would push those cases into court.

In the case of miscarriage, under this you would handle it like any other death is handled. If there were signs of foul play you look at a manslaughter or murder investigation and charges.

Invitro is done under this. Making that process comply with the law would make it outrageous. Birth control is in really strange waters with this, as the pill can cause fertilized eggs to fail to implant.

Once you hear the ultrasound, most rational folks agree that the baby is, well, a baby. I agree with the idea, but codifying it into law seems like it opens pandora's box.

I'm thinking a much better use of time and cash is giving kids some condoms and making them care for a kid for a few days. Guarantee the demand for abortions and the unmarried birth rate would go down.

Ahhh... but how far are we going to go with this? Let's see... in the bible God Punished Onan with death for "spilling his seed on the ground", thereby wasting it instead of ejaculating into his brother's wife as God told him to do.

So Condoms would be the equivalent of spilling your seed on the ground.... and let's not forget masturbation.... I guess we're all killers.

 

[Inthemiddle]

There is no scientific theory that defines a fertilized human egg as anything other than a human being.

Other than? There's no theory that defines it as a human being.

And actually, the scientific community tends to reject that a single cell is a human being, or even a collection of cells. Your skill is made of cells. Take one of them, is that a human being? Under your "theory" yes, according to the scientific community, no. This is the scientific view on it: Humans are made of several systems, which are made of several organs, which are made of several tissue, which are made of several cells. That is a human as viewed by science. Not a single fertilized ova.

 

[Inthemiddle]

Life begins when the sperm burrows in and takes hold. That is science fact.

Try something else straw man.

What straw man? I don't think you know what that means.

When you say "life begins" you mean that a human being begins? Because if you're going to be so broad and vague as to simply say "life" then the truth is that the sperm and ova are, independently "life." Perhaps you'd like to extend legal personhood to both of those?

In truth, a fertilized egg is NOT a human being. All of our science rejects that notion. A human being does not come into existence until some other point along the way.

 

[Katzndogz]

In the case of risk to a mother's life, like ectopic pregnancy specifically, I'd imagine that an abortion procedure would fall under self defense laws, which already cover those "him or me" kind of scenarios. I find it unlikely that any prosecutor would push those cases into court.

In the case of miscarriage, under this you would handle it like any other death is handled. If there were signs of foul play you look at a manslaughter or murder investigation and charges.

Invitro is done under this. Making that process comply with the law would make it outrageous. Birth control is in really strange waters with this, as the pill can cause fertilized eggs to fail to implant.

Once you hear the ultrasound, most rational folks agree that the baby is, well, a baby. I agree with the idea, but codifying it into law seems like it opens pandora's box.

I'm thinking a much better use of time and cash is giving kids some condoms and making them care for a kid for a few days. Guarantee the demand for abortions and the unmarried birth rate would go down.

Ahhh... but how far are we going to go with this? Let's see... in the bible God Punished Onan with death for "spilling his seed on the ground", thereby wasting it instead of ejaculating into his brother's wife as God told him to do.

So Condoms would be the equivalent of spilling your seed on the ground.... and let's not forget masturbation.... I guess we're all killers.

Now that makes no sense at all.

Was Onan punished for spilling his seed onto the ground or for disobeying God when he was told to ejaculate into his brother's wife?

To make an example. Had God not told Onan to do anything, and he spilled his seed on the ground would it still be a sin? The sin was in disobeying, not in the act.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I take it that you support laws prohibiting abortion in all cases except where the woman's life is at stake.

No, I support laws that allow for individual liberty so people can decide on their own how to handle the situation. This is why "conservatives" of today all all phony. None of you care about individual liberty, you only care about people living as YOU say is okay.

 

[Mr. H.]

I never stated or even intimated as such.

You certainly have intimated as such. I can gather no other meaning from your posts. Perhaps you'll be so kind as to spell it out.

Interpret my posts as you will, and I'll politely bow out of the discussion.

 

[Dragon]

If Sam kills Sarah and Sarah was pregnant with a child she chose to have, did Sam commit one murder or two murders?

In most states, one aggravated murder.