Minimum wage is already “livable”

[Anomalism]

I know people earning $200,000 who cry that they can barely make ends meet.

Yep. People are delusional sometimes. Many people are just absolutely terrible at managing money.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

At a point in the past, the loyalty went both ways. You gave the employer a fair days work, and he ensured you could buy food and pay your mortgage. Thats why folks worked for one company for most of their lives, it was a give and take relationship with benefits for both parties. Corporate greed ended that.

In most cases it was because some union forced them to. It's easy to be loyal to your employees when you have no foreign competition to worry about. But American companies have to find ways to compete with countries where workers are making pennies on the dollar while at the same time keeping the company profitable and stock holders happy.

 

[evenflow1969]

Tipping somebody and wages are two different things. Running a fishing boat and being in manufacturing are two different things. In manufacturing you produce as good of a product as you can for the cheapest price. You can't do that paying your floor sweeper $20.00 an hour.

Same fucking thing. I see who tips big around here and I see what their employees drive and where they live. Same people who tip big pay employees well. Tip gives you good indicator of who they are as a person. Some people raise themselves and the people around them. Some people just fuck over every one the meet. Those who fuck over every one they meet deserve what those idiots in the french revolution got. Knew this guy named Hermon won't say his last name. Fucker would start a business rape it and bankrupt it. Meanwhile toward the end of the cycle he worked his employees to death for weeks telling them they were making big money. Then he would not pay them telling them the cost over ran the payroll but a big check was coming on completion of project. Then he would not pay them. The third time he did this the employees got smart and put the fucker in intensive care.vI smiled. Fuck those greedy fucks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Same fucking thing. I see who tips big around here and I see what their employees drive and where they live. Same people who tip big pay employees well. Tip gives you good indicator of who they are as a person. Some people raise themselves and the people around them. Some people just fuck over every one the meet. Those who fuck over every one they meet deserve what those idiots in the french revolution got. Knew this guy named Hermon won't say his last name. Fucker would start a business rape it and bankrupt it. Meanwhile toward the end of the cycle he worked his employees to death for weeks telling them they were making big money. Then he would not pay them telling them the cost over ran the payroll but a big check was coming on completion of project. Then he would not pay them. The third time he did this the employees got smart and put the fucker in intensive care.vI smiled. Fuck those greedy fucks.

Then they should have sued him in court.

 

[Concerned American]

I have given my mechanic more money

I agree with you 100%. I went a different way. I've got this old, gray-headed guy that comes by my place everyday--he's a jack of all trades, but master of none. He mows the lawn, cuts and splits wood, shovels and plows snow, paints, takes care of any and all plumbing problems, cleans moss from the roof, fixes the cars and he does it all for a little something on the side from the lady that lives there. LOL

 

[krichton]

Most businesses don't have millions or billions. Some just barely hold on and most startup businesses fail within a few years.

Yes automation is happening and has been for a number of years. Increasing labor costs will make them invest even more.

You have to divorce yourself from this leftist myth that when costs go up for a business, the owners just have to dig a little deeper into their pockets. It doesn't work that way now and never has. When costs increase, they search for ways to recoup those losses. The big guy never loses a dime.

Many restaurants, cafes, and bars are only required to pay their employees $2.13/hr and a whopping 60% still go under within the first year. Businesses that barely hold on and fail are failing because their business sucks. You have to let go of the right wing fantasy that slave labor is the key to helping small businesses.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Many restaurants, cafes, and bars are only required to pay their employees $2.13/hr and a whopping 60% still go under within the first year. Businesses that barely hold on and fail are failing because their business sucks. You have to let go of the right wing fantasy that slave labor is the key to helping small businesses.

It is for some businesses but not all. Not every business runs the exact same way because they all do different things and do things different ways. But forcing a business to run one way which is the governments way is no solution at all. It would lead to close downs, layoffs, and yes, more investments in automation. More outsourcing and even moving overseas is not out of the question either.

Government needs to stay out of business and concentrate on governing. They can't even do that right yet alone run businesses.

 

[bripat9643]

Ronald Reagan coined the term Welfare Queen

For some reason, all the examples they used were of Black Women

More than half of all women on welfare are black.

 

[bripat9643]

Many restaurants, cafes, and bars are only required to pay their employees $2.13/hr and a whopping 60% still go under within the first year. Businesses that barely hold on and fail are failing because their business sucks. You have to let go of the right wing fantasy that slave labor is the key to helping small businesses.

Those employees make most of their income off of tips, moron.

Who do you think you're fooling?

 

[krichton]

But this is only relevant for employers who currently pay their employees wages that are at or close to the minimum. How many of those are there, really?

I agree that a federal minimum wage of $15 would be stupid. In some states the cost of living is high enough that employers already *do* pay their lowest paid workers that much, or nearly.

In places like rural Alabama $15 an hour is still considered decent money. On the west coast, not so much.

So if California or Washington state want to raise their state minimum wage to $15, why not? To the point of this thread, I agree that the minimum wage was never intended to provide a middle class life style. It’s in the name, *minimum* wage. It’s a livable wage as in you have a roof over your head and you’re not starving. But what is livable in South Dakota and what’s livable in California are two different things.

So let the individual states continue to set their own minimums. Keep the federal one more or less where it is now and peg it to inflation. The market will sort most of it out anyway. The minimum wage is largely moot.

$15/hr is decent money in Alabama? What's the definition of that? $15 x 40 hours a week comes out to 28,800 a year. After taxes that should be around $25K+ year, which comes out a little over 2k a month if the tax bracket calculator i used is accurate. However when i was making $16/hr i recall having more than 12% taxes taken out. It was more like 20% or more I felt. This all assuming you're allowed to work 40 hours a week to begin with. I wasn't. How many ppl are getting that in reality?

Rent: $600
Food: $500
Phone, internet, utilities: $200
Obamacare: $500
Car insurance: ???

You call this decent?? If you're earning 2k a month and you're spending 1800 on all of the above in Alabama, minus car insurance, gas and maintainence, where does that leave ppl who arent living in dirt cheap Alabama?!? Even the person in alabama probably needs to sell his car and buy a bicycle so he can bike 35 miles to work every day. A lot of you ppl are remembering a time when you used to earn $2.25 an hour and now you're looking at $15 minimum wage like it's some outrageous sum. I got news for you. This isn't 1981 anymore. In 2021 things have gotten much more expensive!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

$15/hr is decent money in Alabama? What's the definition of that? $15 x 40 hours a week comes out to 28,800 a year. After taxes that should be around $25K+ year, which comes out a little over 2k a month if the tax bracket calculator i used is accurate. However when i was making $16/hr i recall having more than 12% taxes taken out. It was more like 20% or more I felt. This all assuming you're allowed to work 40 hours a week to begin with. I wasn't. How many ppl are getting that in reality?

Rent: $600
Food: $500
Phone, internet, utilities: $200
Obamacare: $500
Car insurance: ???

You call this decent?? If you're earning 2k a month and you're spending 1800 on all of the above in Alabama, minus car insurance, gas and maintainence, where does that leave ppl who arent living in dirt cheap Alabama?!? Even the person in alabama probably needs to sell his car and buy a bicycle so he can bike 35 miles to work every day. A lot of you ppl are remembering a time when you used to earn $2.25 an hour and now you're looking at $15 minimum wage like it's some outrageous sum. I got news for you. This isn't 1981 anymore. In 2021 things have gotten much more expensive!

Things are much more expensive now because employers have to offer more money to attract labor. That's kind of the point. All operating costs get passed to us consumers and even if you're making more money, you are no further ahead than when you made less three years ago.

You can't mandate increased wages on only one group of people. It creates a domino effect and everybody makes more money which is why (among other things) inflation is the worst it's been in 30 years.

 

[braalian]

$15/hr is decent money in Alabama? What's the definition of that? $15 x 40 hours a week comes out to 28,800 a year. After taxes that should be around $25K+ year, which comes out a little over 2k a month if the tax bracket calculator i used is accurate. However when i was making $16/hr i recall having more than 12% taxes taken out. It was more like 20% or more I felt. This all assuming you're allowed to work 40 hours a week to begin with. I wasn't. How many ppl are getting that in reality?

Rent: $600
Food: $500
Phone, internet, utilities: $200
Obamacare: $500
Car insurance: ???

You call this decent?? If you're earning 2k a month and you're spending 1800 on all of the above in Alabama, minus car insurance, gas and maintainence, where does that leave ppl who arent living in dirt cheap Alabama?!? Even the person in alabama probably needs to sell his car and buy a bicycle so he can bike 35 miles to work every day. A lot of you ppl are remembering a time when you used to earn $2.25 an hour and now you're looking at $15 minimum wage like it's some outrageous sum. I got news for you. This isn't 1981 anymore. In 2021 things have gotten much more expensive!

In 2000, in Michigan, I was 18 and making 9.00/hr. Adjusted for inflation that’s about 13.80/hr today. I had an apartment and a car and enough food to eat. People can live of that if they budget. Not easily, but are we really saying the expectation is that being poor should be easy? Being poor, by definition, means tight budgets and a lack of luxury.

And if you can do it in Michigan, you can definitely do it in Alabama.

Anyway, my point was a $15 minimum wage would be overkill in low income states like Alabama.

 

[krichton]

Those employees make most of their income off of tips, moron.

Who do you think you're fooling?

WOOSHH. Way to miss the point entirely and let it fly past the empty space between your ears.

 

[bripat9643]

WOOSHH. Way to miss the point entirely and let it fly past the empty space between your ears.

Then what is the point, nimrod?

 

[Lisa558]

$15/hr is decent money in Alabama? What's the definition of that? $15 x 40 hours a week comes out to 28,800 a year. After taxes that should be around $25K+ year, which comes out a little over 2k a month if the tax bracket calculator i used is accurate. However when i was making $16/hr i recall having more than 12% taxes taken out. It was more like 20% or more I felt. This all assuming you're allowed to work 40 hours a week to begin with. I wasn't. How many ppl are getting that in reality?

Rent: $600
Food: $500
Phone, internet, utilities: $200
Obamacare: $500
Car insurance: ???

You call this decent?? If you're earning 2k a month and you're spending 1800 on all of the above in Alabama, minus car insurance, gas and maintainence, where does that leave ppl who arent living in dirt cheap Alabama?!? Even the person in alabama probably needs to sell his car and buy a bicycle so he can bike 35 miles to work every day. A lot of you ppl are remembering a time when you used to earn $2.25 an hour and now you're looking at $15 minimum wage like it's some outrageous sum. I got news for you. This isn't 1981 anymore. In 2021 things have gotten much more expensive!

You’re wrong in many ways:

1) Your expenses are miscalculated. If you’re earning only $2k a month, Obamacare isn’t $500 - it’s more like $30. And car insurance? If you never acquired any job skills, you don’t get a car. Food is $500? I spend about $400, and I could cut it down to $300 if I had to.

Rent: $600
Food: $400
Util: $200
Ocare: $30
Public transport: $50

You’re up to around $1200. Still have several hundred for extras.

2) Half of all new businesses fail as it is. If your insist on paying people with little value more than market, even more would fail. Worse, fewer would even be attempted. Small business employs the majority of people in this country - NOT the rich corporations that leftists hate - and we would throw tens of millions onto permanent government assistance.

3) Finally, It‘s not just the unskilled high school grads whose wages would increase. It’s everyone on up the scale, or you’ve got serious wage compression. If the “errand girl” type job goes from $20k to $30k, then the admin asst goes from $35k to $45k. The junior accountant just out of college goes from $55k to $65k. The two staff accountants go from $70k to $80k. The senior act goes from $90 to $105. Add it up: the compensation cost goes up by $65,000, in a situation where the owner was netting after expenses $100k. Owner is now down to $35k. He closes shop to take a senior staff job. But they’re hard to come by because MOST small accounting firms have closed as well.

You le don’t understand the first thing about how the economy works.

 

[Lisa558]

A question for leftists:

You have all the sympathy in the world for people so unmotivated that they aren’t even willing to get a vocational certificate (paid for by taxpayers), but essentially say “tough shit” to motivated, capable, disciplined people who had the drive and ability to start a business whom you are willing to destroy.

Why the sympathy for the unskilled, unmotivated people and the WGAF to the motivated and capable people?

(Oh wait….I figured it out. It’s that Marxist oppressed/oppressor thing you people are all about.j

 

[initforme]

Businesses that cannot find employees have zero sympathy from me. Good places have no issues. Because there is an opening you think it should be filled? Doesn't work that way....and that's a good thing.

 

[Lisa558]

Businesses that cannot find employees have zero sympathy from me. Good places have no issues. Because there is an opening you think it should be filled? Doesn't work that way....and that's a good thing.

That’s the attitude I just talked about. You have NO sympathy for a business owner with the drive, skill, and discipline to start a business and is employing five people, all but ONE well above minimum wage - and have all the sympathy for the people who can’t even bother to take an online course to better themselves.

This is the world the leftists are leading us into: contempt for business owners (and successful people in general) while disincentivizing unskilled workers from acquire a marketable job skill.

 

[Lisa558]

Businesses that cannot find employees have zero sympathy from me. Good places have no issues. Because there is an opening you think it should be filled? Doesn't work that way....and that's a good thing.

And P.S. The reason businesses cannot find emoloyees NOW is because the government has expanded welfare to such an extent that they don’t need a job.

Get government to stop interfering and creating a false market, and we could get back to business. But of course the libs are in control, and the last thing they want is for businesses to succeed. The more people they can move onto government charity, the more votes they figure they’ll get.

 

[initforme]

The UE benefits have ended. People ARE working. Alot of this labor shortage stuff is FAKE NEWS. The business owner can grow their business with or without employees if they have the drive. No business is owed employees which is your thought process. If you need employees that bad then do what it takes to attract them. Why should I have sympathy?