Millions in Katrina Aid Wasted By FEMA

[MissileMan]

I disagree. I think there's plenty of blame to go around. But it didn't happen that way. Check out the factcheck.org link I posted. It gives an accurate assessment.

From a report about Hurricane Pam Exercise:

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1138086166226440.xml

Although the report doesn't mention the possible loss of life, it mentions an Associated Press report of Aug. 27 that "at least 100,000 poverty-stricken people in New Orleans do not have access to transportation to evacuate. The City has suggested using the Superdome as a shelter of last resort for people who have no cars."

Like I said, they knew but did not prepare.

 

[GotZoom]

So...because the admin didn't cause the cat 5 hurricane, FEMA didn't have to act quickly and professionally to prevent as much suffering as it could?

You're all over the place with your issues.... do you think that makes it so one doesn't have to discuss what the admin DOES do incorrectly? You certainly wouldn't say they performed competently, would you?

Nobody performed "competently" - local government, state government, local and state agencies, federal agences, federal government.

Nobody did. Why? Because no matter how well you practice and prepare, you are never fully prepared for what could happen.

There is always that "wild card" - that thing that no one predicted.

I'm sure you have a plan in your household if a fire breaks out. Not sure if you are married but let's presume you are. Everyone knows to stay low to the ground and head for the door. You have a designated spot in the yard for everyone to meet once they exit the house? I'm sure you have practiced it over and over.

So now you can tell me that you are 100% sure, without a single doubt in your mind, that should a fire break out, everyone will act exactly as trained?

Let's now pretend a single engine airplane crashes through your house and lands in the back yard. Your house is engulfed in flames.

Are you sure everyone will act as trained? They only trained if there was a fire, not an airplane crashing through the house before the fire.

I know..I know..lengthy statement. And you aren't totally unintelligent.

No body knows how they will react until they are faced with that specific disaster.

Yes..everyone performed terribly. FEMA admits it. The President admits it.

So..what is the point? Learn from it? Get better (maybe) next time?

I'm not sure I heard Nagin and Blanco admit blame for anything. Correct me if Im' wrong, but...I seem to remember them blaming everyone else.

 

[jillian]

From a report about Hurricane Pam Exercise:

http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-4/1138086166226440.xml



Like I said, they knew but did not prepare.

I read the article. They definitely didn't look at their own reports. But seems to me that the article is directed at FEMA and says nothing about the info being shared with the folk in NOLA. Perhaps I'm missing something?

 

[jillian]

Nobody performed "competently" - local government, state government, local and state agencies, federal agences, federal government.

Nobody did. Why? Because no matter how well you practice and prepare, you are never fully prepared for what could happen.

There is always that "wild card" - that thing that no one predicted.

I'm sure you have a plan in your household if a fire breaks out. Not sure if you are married but let's presume you are. Everyone knows to stay low to the ground and head for the door. You have a designated spot in the yard for everyone to meet once they exit the house? I'm sure you have practiced it over and over.

So now you can tell me that you are 100% sure, without a single doubt in your mind, that should a fire break out, everyone will act exactly as trained?

Let's now pretend a single engine airplane crashes through your house and lands in the back yard. Your house is engulfed in flames.

Are you sure everyone will act as trained? They only trained if there was a fire, not an airplane crashing through the house before the fire.

I know..I know..lengthy statement. And you aren't totally unintelligent.

No body knows how they will react until they are faced with that specific disaster.

Yes..everyone performed terribly. FEMA admits it. The President admits it.

So..what is the point? Learn from it? Get better (maybe) next time?

I'm not sure I heard Nagin and Blanco admit blame for anything. Correct me if Im' wrong, but...I seem to remember them blaming everyone else.

Yes, I'm married, with an 8 year old boy. And yes, things don't always go to plan. But sometimes jobs are given to people who are ill-equipped to handle them. Brown was out of his depth.

And yes, I hope they learned from it and will be better next time. Doesn't make it any less sad that they allowed all those people to be hurt. You know, I just saw a report yesterday about how the hospital system there is breaking down, too. It breaks my heart. I loved NO.

 

[sitarro]

Thirty years ago while partying at Mardi Gras in New Orleans I watched a huge supply ship cruise by the French Quarter on the Mississippi, I could see most of the ship just above the water line. Even though my friend had given me a 4 way hit of windowpane acid and it was really coming on strong I summized that it was really stupid to be in a city that is so far below sea level and is also surrounded by water. It is the shape of a bowl!!!!!!! It is 32 feet below sea level!!!!!!!! The sea is a mere 40 miles south, a giant lake is north of the city and a mile wide river with tremendous current meanders through downtown, how can it not be a disaster waiting to happen???????? Oh sure, they have levees and pumps.....so what?????!!!!!!!! Where , if the lousy, underpowered, rusted pumps even worked, would the pumped water go?????????

Here I was, a 22 year old college student tripping on some extremely powerful acid and I could see this was going to happen....why didn't the elitist progressives that have ruled that state and city forever and actually live there need a study to tell them it was going to happen? Like missleman said, why wasn't the Superdome set up to be the gathering place it would surely become? Emergency generators built up higher than foreseen flood waters would run with enough propane to last for weeks. Thousands of bottles of water and storable food kept in storage and a sewerage system designed for use by the population for at least a week. Instead the great thinkers of New Orleans decided to spend over 200 million adding luxury boxes that are now destroyed.

So Jillian, I think the city's citizens owe the Federal Government a great deal of thanks that only 1100 people were killed, if left up to the state they could have easily lived up to their worst predictions of 50,000 body bags filled. Go reread your site, the city rulers knew it was coming and yet THEY let an Amtrak train leave empty, THEY let 100s of school buses and no doubt as many city buses get destroyed rather than save them and all of the people they could carry out of there. If Blanco would have acted and asked for federal help when she should have, C-5s could have landed at both airports and airlifted thousands out in a few hours.

I watched the same type of idiot false pride take place in Denver 10 years ago. The fuel farm at Stapleton airport caught fire and burned for days before Denver's asshole Mayor Wellington Webb swallowed his pride and called Texan, Red Adair who promply came up and put it out. You see they hate Texans in Colorado as much as Blanco hates Bush and would rather lose thousands of gallons of fuel and ad pollution to the already brown cloud that covers Denver just as Blanco would rather kill thousands than allow the federal government to come in and rescue her incompetent fat ass.

They were actually very lucky that the city not only avoided a direct hit but that the Mississippi levees didn't cave. They will, it is only a matter of time, there is no doubt about that.

 

[jillian]

Thirty years ago while partying at Mardi Gras in New Orleans I watched a huge supply ship cruise by the French Quarter on the Mississippi, I could see most of the ship just above the water line. Even though my friend had given me a 4 way hit of windowpane acid and it was really coming on strong I summized that it was really stupid to be in a city that is so far below sea level and is also surrounded by water. It is the shape of a bowl!!!!!!! It is 32 feet below sea level!!!!!!!! The sea is a mere 40 miles south, a giant lake is north of the city and a mile wide river with tremendous current meanders through downtown, how can it not be a disaster waiting to happen???????? Oh sure, they have levees and pumps.....so what?????!!!!!!!! Where , if the lousy, underpowered, rusted pumps even worked, would the pumped water go?????????

Here I was, a 22 year old college student tripping on some extremely powerful acid and I could see this was going to happen....why didn't the elitist progressives that have ruled that state and city forever and actually live there need a study to tell them it was going to happen? Like missleman said, why wasn't the Superdome set up to be the gathering place it would surely become? Emergency generators built up higher than foreseen flood waters would run with enough propane to last for weeks. Thousands of bottles of water and storable food kept in storage and a sewerage system designed for use by the population for at least a week. Instead the great thinkers of New Orleans decided to spend over 200 million adding luxury boxes that are now destroyed.

So Jillian, I think the city's citizens owe the Federal Government a great deal of thanks that only 1100 people were killed, if left up to the state they could have easily lived up to their worst predictions of 50,000 body bags filled. Go reread your site, the city rulers knew it was coming and yet THEY let an Amtrak train leave empty, THEY let 100s of school buses and no doubt as many city buses get destroyed rather than save them and all of the people they could carry out of there. If Blanco would have acted and asked for federal help when she should have, C-5s could have landed at both airports and airlifted thousands out in a few hours.

I watched the same type of idiot false pride take place in Denver 10 years ago. The fuel farm at Stapleton airport caught fire and burned for days before Denver's asshole Mayor Wellington Webb swallowed his pride and called Texan, Red Adair who promply came up and put it out. You see they hate Texans in Colorado as much as Blanco hates Bush and would rather lose thousands of gallons of fuel and ad pollution to the already brown cloud that covers Denver just as Blanco would rather kill thousands than allow the federal government to come in and rescue her incompetent fat ass.

They were actually very lucky that the city not only avoided a direct hit but that the Mississippi levees didn't cave. They will, it is only a matter of time, there is no doubt about that.

We aren't going to see this the same way, since you refuse to acknowledge any responsibility on the part of the Feds. But I thank you for sharing your story.... musta been fun in those days (politics aside) lol... I missed the sixties, myself.

Anyway, thing is, you think it was stupid for NO to be built below sea level.. does that mean Venice should be allowed to drown, too? And, again, does it mean that the Feds shouldn't have had someone competent running FEMA? Personally, I'd kind of like to know that when we get attacked by terrorists again that the folk in DC will be capable of an organized, prompt response.

But as was said before... hopefully everyone learns from this.

 

[sitarro]

We aren't going to see this the same way, since you refuse to acknowledge any responsibility on the part of the Feds. But I thank you for sharing your story.... musta been fun in those days (politics aside) lol... I missed the sixties, myself.

Anyway, thing is, you think it was stupid for NO to be built below sea level.. does that mean Venice should be allowed to drown, too? And, again, does it mean that the Feds shouldn't have had someone competent running FEMA? Personally, I'd kind of like to know that when we get attacked by terrorists again that the folk in DC will be capable of an organized, prompt response.

But as was said before... hopefully everyone learns from this.

Yeah, learn that New Orleans was a mistake when it was built originally and is even bigger of a mistake now, don't build neighborhoods there. If you do, don't expect the Federal government to come rescue your dumb ass.

Actually thirty years ago was the 70s and I have brought up the Federal Governments responsibilities. The U.S. Coast Guard did an incredible job saving tens of thousands of lives that Nagin assumed were lost because of his and Blanco's incompetence. Again, it is not the feds responsibility to babysit the states. They act when asked, that is how our government is suppose to work. If President Bush would have ordered the National Guard into New Orleans immediately, the criticism from the Democrats would have been about states rights being violated by King George.

As far as politics go, I was a 22 year old college student in the arts, it was almost mandatory that I was liberal. I didn't care or know anything about what was going on with the government and my Dad was conservative so that made me perfectly qualified to be liberal. It was only after I grew up, started paying my own bills and taxes and caring about my country that I matured into conservatism.

Venice isn't 32 feet BELOW sea level and they have flooding problems but they expect that since it was built on water. How arrogant for us to actually think we can control nature. The levees on the Mississippi in Louisiana have always been a problem. It has been disgussed for decades how disasterous IT IS GOING TO BE when the Mississippi decides to no longer cooperate with the Army Corp of Engineers. I never even thought of the Pontchatrain's levees, they were never talked about, that makes New Orleans' location even more insane. WHEN, not if, the Mississippi levees give way you aren't just going to get a smooth encroachment of water on the city, it will be a torrent of water with the tremendous current that the Mississippi carries. What I am saying is. . . it is insane to just go back into New Orleans and spend ridiculous amounts of federal tax dollars rebuilding exactly the same way without addressing the outrageous amount of danger that exists in doing so. It is a huge waste of money for a tourist trap. Oh and one other thing......check the insurance bill that also effects us all. Do you think anything they do now will be insured? Will it even be possible to get an insurance company stupid enough to offer flood insurance there.

 

[manu1959]

Might be. But don't you think they deserved an immediate response? Seems to me that FEMA's non-responsiveness (or incompetent response) was pretty deadly. And the fact that FEMA paid for expensive hotel rooms instead of using the trailers which are sitting there empty was simple mismanagement. No?

people that want a big govt in the hopes that it will be there and take care of you....well you keep voting to create one

govt built levees....govt inaction to build them...govt inaction to evacuate...govt inaction to help.....definition of insanity......same actions over and over and expecting a different result

 

[dilloduck]

The FEMA trailers could be used if people were willing to relocate outside of a flood plain.

2006 · FEMA and Congress are trying to figure out what to do with more than 10,000 mobile homes hastily stockpiled in Hope, Ark., after Hurricane Katrina. Federal regulations forbid them from being placed in a floodplain, so few were ever sent to the Gulf Coast. A move is on to change the law

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5313004

 

[Dr Grump]

The FEMA trailers could be used if people were willing to relocate outside of a flood plain.

Who in there right mind would go back and live there - levees or no levees...

 

[dilloduck]

Who in there right mind would go back and live there - levees or no levees...

Bingo---we are talking about the same people who didn't leave when a giant hurricane was bearing down on thier city. They would go back in a heartbeat and live in a trailer city set up in the very same place they left. The law simply will not allow it.

 

[jillian]

As far as politics go, I was a 22 year old college student in the arts, it was almost mandatory that I was liberal. I didn't care or know anything about what was going on with the government and my Dad was conservative so that made me perfectly qualified to be liberal. It was only after I grew up, started paying my own bills and taxes and caring about my country that I matured into conservatism.

I think views can be moderated without losing one's sense of compassion and fairness. There are too many issues adopted by the right now which have nothing to do with fiscal responsibility for me to say that it is now "mature" to be conservative. And this admin is anything but fiscally conservative.

Do you think anything they do now will be insured? Will it even be possible to get an insurance company stupid enough to offer flood insurance there.

I figure the same insurance/reinsurance companies will insure in NO that insure the Florida coast, which gets nailed by hurricanes every year, and the "Freedom Tower" when and if it's built (not that anyone could ever pay me enough money to work there).

 

[GotZoom]

Standard flood insurance provided by most insurance companies is underwritten by the National Flood Insurance Program. It's limited at $250K for the house and $100K for the contents.

There are companies who will write additional flood insurance but it is very expensive.

Anyone who rebuilds in a flood plain will automatically qualifiy for the insurance provided by the Feds.

 

[sitarro]

Isn't it amazing the contrast between the people of Mississippi who actually owned their homes and lost everything they had worked their whole lives for and the big mouth whiners from New Orleans housing projects. All we hear from in the news are those jerks from New Orleans. My-brother-in law's brother lost 4 rental cabins and a home on Holly Beach, Louisiana when Rita hit, he isn't getting anything and doesn't expect anything from the federal government.

The same jerks that we heard the most from in New Orleans are now in Houston hanging out in their federally financed apartment bitching about getting a ride to go vote in Louisiana's elections. The crime rate in every section of town that they have located in is up dramatically, almost every night on the news there are murders, rapes and the burning of apartment complexes attributed back to these lowlifes. Besides the fact that New Orleans is a suicide trap, those people were the ones running the city for the last thirty years and they hated white people. Tourists were nothing but targets for them. Check out the crime statistics of New Orleans for the last 30 years and tell me again what a wonderful vacation spot it is.

New Orleans is good for one thing, the proof that black Democrats can take the controls of a city for 30 years and nothing is better and most things are much worse.

 

[jillian]

Isn't it amazing the contrast between the people of Mississippi who actually owned their homes and lost everything they had worked their whole lives for and the big mouth whiners from New Orleans housing projects. All we hear from in the news are those jerks from New Orleans. My-brother-in law's brother lost 4 rental cabins and a home on Holly Beach, Louisiana when Rita hit, he isn't getting anything and doesn't expect anything from the federal government.

The same jerks that we heard the most from in New Orleans are now in Houston hanging out in their federally financed apartment bitching about getting a ride to go vote in Louisiana's elections. The crime rate in every section of town that they have located in is up dramatically, almost every night on the news there are murders, rapes and the burning of apartment complexes attributed back to these lowlifes. Besides the fact that New Orleans is a suicide trap, those people were the ones running the city for the last thirty years and they hated white people. Tourists were nothing but targets for them. Check out the crime statistics of New Orleans for the last 30 years and tell me again what a wonderful vacation spot it is.

New Orleans is good for one thing, the proof that black Democrats can take the controls of a city for 30 years and nothing is better and most things are much worse.

Well, it wasn't only people in "projects" who were displaced. It was people who put everything they had into homes, as well. As for NO being a wonderful vacation spot... it was.

What NO shows is what happens when government acts incompetently...starting from the top down...at every level, from FEMA on down.

 

[Hobbit]

Well, it wasn't only people in "projects" who were displaced. It was people who put everything they had into homes, as well. As for NO being a wonderful vacation spot... it was.

What NO shows is what happens when government acts incompetently...starting from the top down...at every level, from FEMA on down.

There are two major problems with blaming FEMA, a fashionable thing to do these days.

Problem 1 - FEMA is prohibited by law to violate a state's sovreignty by entering that state in an official capacity unless granted explicit permission by that state's government. That jackass Blanco had FEMA trucks lined up at the border before the hurricane even made landfall and wouldn't let them in for over 2 days. Until she let them in, there was nothing they could do but twiddle their thumbs. It was a quick response, but a slow execution due to having a jackass governor to put up with.

Problem 2 - People seem to think FEMA is an entirely independant, self-contained disaster relief agency. Far from it. FEMA stands for Federal Emergency Management Agency. FEMA is designed to come in with some equipment and a lot of well-trained administrators and coordinate the relief effort. When FEMA arrived in NO, there was no significant relief effort underway, so they had to build one from scratch, a contingency unplanned for, since it was assumed that any sane person would already have a rescue and relief effort underway. Too bad there's no sanity in the LA government. Even then, their efforts were greeting with ungrateful griping. These worthless ingrates rejected MRE's because they weren't already hot, trailers because they weren't big enough, and bottled water because it wasn't cold enough. That's why FEMA was supposedly incompetant.

Then there's the fact that a lot of rescue efforts were wasted. Over 1/3 of the FEMA debit card purchases in GA were on lottery tickets and video slots.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Well, it wasn't only people in "projects" who were displaced. It was people who put everything they had into homes, as well. As for NO being a wonderful vacation spot... it was.

What NO shows is what happens when government acts incompetently...starting from the top down...at every level, from FEMA on down.

Alot of the problem is FEMA being folded into the bureaucracy that is Homeland Security. About the only thing that President Clinton did right was to keep FEMA at cabinet level. I'm in no way saying that FEMA was solely responsible or that Mike Brown was to blame, but this was one issue. If FEMA had the clout it had in the '90s, it could have moved and forced itself onto Nagin and Blanco. I blame Chertoff more than anyone, for not backing up his own people and pressing the issue of preemminance.

 

[jillian]

Alot of the problem is FEMA being folded into the bureaucracy that is Homeland Security. About the only thing that President Clinton did right was to keep FEMA at cabinet level. I'm in no way saying that FEMA was solely responsible or that Mike Brown was to blame, but this was one issue. If FEMA had the clout it had in the '90s, it could have moved and forced itself onto Nagin and Blanco. I blame Chertoff more than anyone, for not backing up his own people and pressing the issue of preemminance.

I agree. But I would also add that giving Brown a patronage job he was ill-equipped for probably did everyone a disservice. I'm sure that if they wanted to reward him, they could have found something more within his skill/experience level.

 

[dilloduck]

Well, it wasn't only people in "projects" who were displaced. It was people who put everything they had into homes, as well. As for NO being a wonderful vacation spot... it was.

What NO shows is what happens when government acts incompetently...starting from the top down...at every level, from FEMA on down.

Seriously--how many hard working, self sufficent people are still in shelters, motels, hotels and government housing ? Sorry but the NO projects are what were spread all over America. When the government decides to build new projects in NO they will move back----but wait--wouldn't it be dangerous to move people back into a town that no one can get them out of in an emergency? I mean why rely on Fema again?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I agree. But I would also add that giving Brown a patronage job he was ill-equipped for probably did everyone a disservice. I'm sure that if they wanted to reward him, they could have found something more within his skill/experience level.

What made Brown unqaulified? Go read his resume and stop watching Anderson Cooper. Brown was sufficiently qualified and has been vindicated. Seriously, watch the real news sometime.