Michigan police reform bill to requires ‘jiu jitsu’ blue belt for all officers

[progressive hunter]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

Actually no.

The training is called “Shoot to Stop”. If you shoot the baddie and he falls down you are supposed to stop shooting. The threat has been stopped. If you shoot him and he drops his weapon you are supposed to stop shooting. The threat has been stopped.

Why shooting to wound doesn’t make sense scientifically, legally, or tactically

Force Science re-states its case in light of recent 'no-kill bill' proposal

www.police1.com

Nope, that is definitely not true. Once again, i point to Exhibit A.

Hmmm... IN that video, not a single shot is fired after the cop says "He's down!"

You can't stop winning this argument for me any time you want...

Are you fucking retarded? They must have fired a hundred rounds after the guy dropped, and for minutes AFTER he dropped.

that doesnt prove you right,, now show us where in their training books they are supposed to shoot to kill or shut up,,

No, i know, i know. They are just trained to shoot center mass multiple times. They arent trying to "kill", they are just trying to make his heart stop beating.

Actually, no, they're not. While it's often the result, that's not the intent of deadly force.

So, you admit that they aren't trained to keep shooting until a suspect is dead?

They keep shooting until he stops moving, and sometimes they wont even stop then. Cops have found that when you shoot people center mass a bunch of times, they pretty much always die, and they always aim for center mass so...

are you going to post the training or SOP's that prove your claim or not??

I need to show proof that cops shoot for center mass?

No, dummy.

You claimed that police officers are trained to continue shooting until a suspect is dead.

Provide proof of THAT...

No, you said "cops arent trained to shoot to kill", yet we know that they are trained to shoot center mass. We also know that the best way to kill a man is by shooting him at center mass. You want this debate to be about semantics because, your argument is shit. Cops of course arent going to say "we shoot to kill", instead they say "we shoot center mass until the threat is removed", which is another way of saying "we shoot to kill", only they dont get law suits this way. When a cop aims center mass and pulls the trigger, he is shooting to kill. Any dishonest argument otherwise is fucking dumb and not worth my time.

now your just pathetic,,

I don't see what you see, please explain

thats understandable,,

 

[Likkmee]

You could get a waiver if you had a Jui Judge as an unkle there.

 

[Canon Shooter]

So the defund t

No, you said "cops arent trained to shoot to kill"

That's true. They aren't.

And, thus far, you've been an unqualified failure at demonstrating otherwise...

yet we know that they are trained to shoot center mass.

This is correct.

But that wasn't your argument. You said police were trained to keep firing their weapon until the suspect was dead. Then you decided that showing us You Tube videos was the best way to prove your statement correct. Thus farm you have been an unqualified failure at proving that police are trained to shoot until a suspect is dead.

Here's a hint for you: You can't prove it because it isn't true. Police are not trained to keep firing until a suspect is dead...

We also know that the best way to kill a man is by shooting him at center mass.

Do we?

If I shoot you in the chest with a .22, you're probably gonna' make it. If I shoot you in the temple, probably not.

Again, you need to educate yourself on the definition of deadly force. Yes, shooting someone in the chest with a 9mm or a .40 is probably going to kill them.

But not always, and it's not the reason you use deadly force...

You want this debate to be about semantics because, your argument is shit. Cops of course arent going to say "we shoot to kill", instead they say "we shoot center mass until the threat is removed", which is another way of saying "we shoot to kill", only they dont get law suits this way. When a cop aims center mass and pulls the trigger, he is shooting to kill. Any dishonest argument otherwise is fucking dumb and not worth my time.

You made the statement that police are trained to continue shooting until a suspect is dead, but you have offered absolutely nothing to back that comment up. All posting You Tube videos does is demonstrate that not only do you not know the information you need, you're too stupid to even find it...

I showed you a video of cops shooting a man who is down and not moving, and not one of them has been charged with a crime, so you can take your weak ass debate technique and kick rocks.

And as soon as the cop yelled "HE'S OWN!" the shooting stopped.

You're out of your depth here, and you're making yourself look like a complete fucking fool.

But, hey, you can't say I didn't warn you...

 

[Unkotare]

You know, there was a fairly decent conversation going on here before dogboy became obsessed with fillin’ em fulla lead. Too bad.

 

[WEATHER53]

So the defund the police wants cops to go hand to hand combat now?

sounds reasonable,, it gives them an edge

Uhm we have female cops now they can't use it on a string out person on drugs

maybe,, but we do have cases where two full grown men cant take down a single person,,

and a women would benefit greatly from the training,, it teaches a smaller person how to overpower a larger one,,

I see it as a good thing and another tool in the toolbox of law enforcement,,

Just pull out the gun and shoot to kill

Anyone who "shoots to kill" is improperly trained.

You never "shoot to kill". You shoot in order to stop the behavior which caused you to draw your weapon...

That is absolutely NOT true. Not only are cops trained to kill when they fire their weapon, civilians should only shoot to kill as well. Dont worry about how many bullets you put in your attacker, just as long as he dies. You never try to "wing" someone, like in the movies. Guns are not designed to be non lethal.

You're wrong.

Police are trained to shoot to terminate the threat. In this case, "terminate" does not mean "kill" it means to put an end to the threat. If a suspect is shot and, upon falling to the ground he drops his weapon, the threat is over. The threat has been terminated. There's no reason for the cop to continue shooting the suspect, even if the suspect is still alive

Do you know what the definition for "deadly force" is?

And I never said anything about trying to "wing" anyone. Double tap, center mass. That means you fire two rounds into the largest portion of the body, which is the torso. If the suspect is still standing, you double tap him again. You do that until he's no longer a threat. That may well result in the person's death, but the policeman's goal isn't to kill the suspect, it's to stop the suspect...

This ^ list of nonsense is not taught at any police station in the nation. Where the fuck did you come up with that? Ive seen many videos of cops shooting people who are on the ground, after already being shot.

At 16:20, this cop is about to make a miraculous shot, which drops the guy instantly. Now do a count of how many shots came AFTER he was down from the first devastating shot. They light this motherfucker up for a couple minutes.

I'm not going to argue about this. You're 100% wrong.

That you believe that your experience watching "many videos" trumps training offered by the California Highway Patrol is outright laughable.

Seriously, just stop. You're gonna' make yourself look foolish in a hurry...

Part of the suspension of fact reality for last 5 years is others feelings are more valid than your personal, actual experiences.

 

[freyasman]

Its not a bad idea for the cops to learn hand to hand combat

But I was wrong when I previously suggested that it might prevent cop on suspect killings

Because to be effective the cop has to be in good physical shape

And obviously many are not

Besides many criminals just spent years in jail body building 8 hours a day

The opponent cannot be armed with a knife

otherwise the cop must keep his distance rather than closing and taking the bad guy down

martial arts can be helpful but not in all situations

Size and strength matters in physical confrontations, but not as much as you might think when it comes to grappling. In this instance, technique trumps strength. BJJ was literally designed to allow the smaller guy to win fights.

Many people probably dont know this story, but its an important one in MMA history, so i will tell it.

The UFC was started by Rorion Gracie to showcase Gracie Jiu Jitsu. They had been doing underground fights for years before UFC 1. People from other martial arts schools would go to the Gracie school and challenge them to fights. These fights had no rules and no refs. The Gracie's fucked up EVERYONE. If you had no idea what BJJ was, or what an "armbar" was, you were going to be in a world of hurt.

This is what we saw happen at UFC 1. No one knew how to defend armbars or rear naked chokes, so they dropped like flies to little ole Royce Gracie. Rorion made sure that every fighter at that event outweighed Royce, who only weighed 170 pounds. The truth was, Royce wasnt their best fighter, it was Rickson. Rickson was by FAR the best fighter on earth, but they didnt put him in UFC 1 because Rickson was big and buff. If Rickson came in and beat everyone, people would say "well yeah, hes so big and strong, of course he would win", which means their martial art wouldnt get credit. They wanted to show the Gracie BJJ could teach a skinny guy like Royce to beat the biggest meanest fighters in the world, and he did.

I know all about Gracie

As I said martial arts can be helpful in some situations and the cops should learn to use them

but there are rules even in MMA

Such as no knives for instance

And many cops are sadly out of shape which handicaps them

And that is where the shivworks collective really shines;

 

[freyasman]

Some people watch to many movies, cops don't aim for the wrist

They don't aim for it, but hand, arm, and gun hits are actually pretty common in gunfights, because they are in front of the guy's torso.