Michael J Fox - Human Shield

[Dr Grump]

No, its not equivlant. Because one of the few things the Federal government is responisble for funding is our military. Or are you suggesting that private companies be responsible for fighting our wars? The Federal government is not responsible for medical research, unless of course I missed that somewhere in the US Constitution.

That is in the eye of the beholder - both comments....

 

[theHawk]

Oh... I care. Which is why I don't think they should be there. Fund them in Afghanistan.

But you guys are all so full of it.

So,, again, what sacrifices have you made?

4 and a half years Active duty. Its not much, but I'm not going around blasting the war as if I am sacrificing something now.

 

[theHawk]

That is in the eye of the beholder - both comments....

Maybe you can explain to me how the US Constitution says otherwise, according to your eye.

 

[Dr Grump]

I'm not going around blasting the war as if I am sacrificing something now.

I'm blasting the war, but where am I stating that I'm sacrificing anything? I'm not. Others are on behalf of Bush and his cronies..(IMO)...

 

[Dr Grump]

Maybe you can explain to me how the US Constitution says otherwise, according to your eye.

Where in the constitutino does it say tax should be collected to pay for welfare or any one of a dozen or more things taxes pay for?

 

[Bonnie]

October 25th, 2006

The popular and appealing actor Michael J. Fox has taken to the airwaves in Senate battleground states Missouri, Maryland, and New Jersey with a highly misleading ad urging defeat of Republican Senatorial candidates opposing the use of taxpayer dollars to fund new embryonic stem cell line research. He states,

“Stem cell research offers hope to millions of Americans with diseases like diabetes, Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s…. But George Bush and Michael Steele would put limits on the most promising stem cell research.”

Mr. Fox and his ads’ sponsors are guilty of conflating embryonic stem cell research, which the GOP candidates and many Americans oppose for destroying a human life in the name of curing other people’s diseases, with stem cell research in general, which includes adult stem cell research and umbilical cord blood stem cell research.

The only limits in question are on federal funding of new embryonic stem cell lines, requiring the sacrifice of new embryos. Private and state-funded research (California voters are spending six billion dollars borrowing money to fund this) is ongoing. The implicit claim that research based on new embryos is “the most promising” is absurd, completely unsupported by the scientific literature, and an insult to voters, based as it is on the assumption that they are incapable of understanding the issue. Too stupid to tell the difference, is the elitist assumption underlying this campaign.

Flim-flam is a charitable description. Why would federally-funded research be more promising than state- and privately-funded research? And on what possible basis can the claim be made that embryonic stem cell research is more promising than adult stem cell research?

The plain fact is that embryonic stem cell research is proving to be a bust. There are currently 72 therapies showing human benefits using adult stem cells and zero using embryonic stem cells. Scientifically-minded readers can review this medical journal article on the status of adult stem cell research. Adult stem cell therapies are already being advertised and promoted while no such treatments are even remotely in prospect for embryonic stem cell research.

The fact is that adult stem cells have already produced remarkable cures, whereas embryonic stem cells have failed. This should come as no great surprise to anyone with a background in high school biology. When an embryo is created by the union of the sperm and egg, the cells begin to divide, creating embryonic stem cells from which all future tissues and organs are derived. Within days, the embryonic cells differentiate into three cell layers – ectoderm, mesoderm and endoderm. Cells in these layers continue to differentiate into tissues and organs. As the embryo matures into a fetus, child, and adult, some undifferentiated cells of the three types remain in various tissues such as bone marrow, fat, skin and olfactory tissue.

These adult stem cells are multipotent: they have the ability to turn into a variety of types of tissues. Successful stem cell therapies cause the DNA in the adult stem cells to further differentiate into more specific types of cells. There is no point in getting the adult stem cell to turn into a less differentiated type of cell, or using the more primitive embryonic stem cells. This would be going backward, in the opposite direction of providing a clinically useful therapy. Difficulties abound with proposed embryonic stem cell therapies. The growth of the more primitive embryonic stem cells is more difficult to control and leads to tumor formation. Recent research suggests brain tumors may result. Additionally, the use of embryonic tissue foreign to the patient can potentially lead to problems with immune rejection of tissue, a problem not encountered in using a patient’s own adult stem cells.

America is the most formidable medical research center in the world, but it is far from alone in pursuing the potential of adult stem cells. The worldwide effort is impressive and growing. For non-adult stem cell research, a morally unquestionable alternative source exists: stem cells drawn from umbilical cord blood. Already a bank exists in Dubai collecting cord blood stem cells.

In short, the claims made in the Michael J. Fox political ads are false and reprehensible, an insult to the voters of Maryland, Missouri and New Jersey, and to all Americans.

Mary L. Davenport, MD is an obstetrician and gynecologist.

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5977

 

[theHawk]

Ah, so if you don't support the War in Iraq, you're not a "patriot"...Up against the wall and put a blindfold on 'em!!

No, thats not what Jilly said. She said she did not want any of her taxmoney going to the war. Which is a position even most Dems won't take. They don't like the war, but at least they fund it.

 

[theHawk]

Where in the constitutino does it say tax should be collected to pay for welfare or any one of a dozen or more things taxes pay for?

Nowhere, which is exactly why I'm against taxpayer money to welfare.

 

[jillian]

4 and a half years Active duty. Its not much, but I'm not going around blasting the war as if I am sacrificing something now.

Apologies. Thank you for your service. Misjudged and thought you were another chickenhawk.

And just so you know, I was all for Afghanistan. I don't "blast" all wars. I think there are very good reasons to die sometimes and I honor the people who fall in the line of duty. But this war ... no gain; no potential gain; and hundreds of billions of our dollars spent.

BTW, there's nothing in the Constitution about funding Faith Based Initiatives either.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

No, its not equivlant. Because one of the few things the Federal government is responisble for funding is our military. Or are you suggesting that private companies be responsible for fighting our wars? The Federal government is not responsible for medical research, unless of course I missed that somewhere in the US Constitution.

Right. Funding our military to protect the country. Our presence in Iraq being a strategy of national defense is a strained theory at best. So yes, saying that anyone who wants to pull funding from Iraq cares nothing about our servicemen IS the same as saying anyone refusing to fund stem cell research is okeydokey with the potential benificiaries suffering and dying.

Fact is, if this war had been run by a private company there would have been massive firings for the piss poor planning job. I don't want a mercenary army, but I would like to see some responsibility taken for mistakes.

 

[theHawk]

October 25th, 2006


http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5977

Yup, its been well known that adult stem cells are the way to go. Embryonic has not been nearly as sucessfull. Yet liberals keep spreading their lies that embryonic is the most promosing.

 

[theHawk]

Fact is, if this war had been run by a private company there would have been massive firings for the piss poor planning job. I don't want a mercenary army, but I would like to see some responsibility taken for mistakes.

That can be said about any government run operation or agency. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be in charge of anything but the bare minimum essentials to keep our nation safe. Believe me, I work for the government now, you don't want us in charge of your health care and medical research.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

That can be said about any government run operation or agency. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be in charge of anything but the bare minimum essentials to keep our nation safe. Believe me, I work for the government now, you don't want us in charge of your health care and medical research.

Believe me, I work for a government contractor, I know what you're talking about.

 

[theHawk]

And just so you know, I was all for Afghanistan. I don't "blast" all wars. I think there are very good reasons to die sometimes and I honor the people who fall in the line of duty. But this war ... no gain; no potential gain; and hundreds of billions of our dollars spent.

Look, nobody wants to see our soldiers die. I understand it seems like we get no "gain" out of it at this point. I sure as hell want to see our soldiers come home asap too. But that doesn't mean I'm going to go an anti-war/anti-Bush tirade. I thought it was a good idea to topple Saddam at the time, I was tired of our Air Force having to patrol the No-Fly-Zone while Saddam violated its rules every week. Personally I thought we should had nuked the fucking country but Bush wanted to do the "right thing" and try to give these people freedom. As far as I am concerned most of our objectives for Operation Iraqi Freedom is completed. As for the democracy part, I personally believe Muslims are incapable of it. So am I all for getting a plan to get out to some degree, but it is something that has to be handled properly or terrorists will just fill the vacuum of power thats left behind after we do leave. And if the terrorists just set up camp then we'll be at square one, which is worse than where we're at.
We never planned to be there forever, and we will leave sometime. I'm sure I'm not the only conservative that feels this way, which is why we probably see polls reflecting negative feelings towards Iraq.

BTW, there's nothing in the Constitution about funding Faith Based Initiatives either.

I hope it gets axed with welfare, and our non-stop funding of Israel.

 

[Kagom]

I'll be quite frank with my views on this.

Michael J. Fox's not taking his medicine to show off the effects is unethical. It's stupid and dangerous to his health. He shouldn't do that. BUT I do support stem cell research becaues I have lost relatives to both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and it was emotionally debilitating to see them suffer. We should do more research and try to find a cure.

Rush Limbaugh is a jerkoff. I don't feel a need to really elaborate on that. I dislike pundits and Limbaugh is a big pundit (yes, I also hate Michael Moore).

 

[Hobbit]

As far as funding for embryonic stem cells go, I have looked through the Constitution time and again and cannot place my finger upon the section of it that permits the federal government to assign taxpayer money to advance scientific research, nor can I find a section allowing the government to hand out taxpayer money, without return of services, to those who have not taken it upon themselves to find gainful employment or are unable to afford medical care. I can, however, spot the exact article (Article 2) which permits the executive branch of the federal government to deploy the military as the president sees fit.

 

[Kagom]

That can be said about any government run operation or agency. Which is exactly why it shouldn't be in charge of anything but the bare minimum essentials to keep our nation safe. Believe me, I work for the government now, you don't want us in charge of your health care and medical research.

Since you work in government, can you elaborate on that last sentence? I'm not trying to draw fire or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

 

[theHawk]

I'll be quite frank with my views on this.

Michael J. Fox's not taking his medicine to show off the effects is unethical. It's stupid and dangerous to his health. He shouldn't do that. BUT I do support stem cell research becaues I have lost relatives to both Parkinson's and Alzheimer's and it was emotionally debilitating to see them suffer. We should do more research and try to find a cure.

Rush Limbaugh is a jerkoff. I don't feel a need to really elaborate on that. I dislike pundits and Limbaugh is a big pundit (yes, I also hate Michael Moore).

I'm all for the research too. Adult Stem Cell research, because its completely ethical and it also happens to be the most promising in actually helping people.

 

[theHawk]

Since you work in government, can you elaborate on that last sentence? I'm not trying to draw fire or anything, I'm just genuinely curious.

Referring to what Clay said, I would say that if any government agency were a private company it would go bankrupt. The government just doesn't do things nearly as effeciently as private industry. Management is usually piss poor, and thats because the government is practically its own welfare state. What I mean by this is that any employee of the government is virtually impossible to fire. You can be a complete moron, lazy, and not do anything and nothing will happen to you. I work with people who don't do JACK SHIT all day. If they did what they do here in a private company they'd be fired. Because of the government's uninspired workforce its production is absolutely abysmal. This is why I cannot fathom why anyone would want our Federal government having to do with anything like Health care. You think health care costs are high now? Wait until the Federal government takes over. I guarantee you we'd have to tax your paycheck(in addition to what already is taxed) alot more than what you pay your health corverage every month.

 

[Kagom]

Referring to what Clay said, I would say that if any government agency were a private company it would go bankrupt. The government just doesn't do things nearly as effeciently as private industry. Management is usually piss poor, and thats because the government is practically its own welfare state. What I mean by this is that any employee of the government is virtually impossible to fire. You can be a complete moron, lazy, and not do anything and nothing will happen to you. I work with people who don't do JACK SHIT all day. If they did what they do here in a private company they'd be fired. Because of the government's uninspired workforce its production is absolutely abysmal. This is why I cannot fathom why anyone would want our Federal government having to do with anything like Health care. You think health care costs are high now? Wait until the Federal government takes over. I guarantee you we'd have to tax your paycheck(in addition to what already is taxed) alot more than what you pay your health corverage every month.

Suffices my query! Thanks Hawk.