SavannahMann
Platinum Member
- Nov 16, 2016
- 14,540
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The old truth still applies. Those who do not learn from History are doomed to repeat it. But what history will they learn? The problem with adjusting history to suit your modern narrative is that you lose the lesson that is there to be learned.
The first lesson that should be learned is that the Civil War as not a Civil War. A Civil War by definition is two factions fighting for control of the Government. Usually these are rebels and loyalists. Usually the Loyalists win, but a few times in history, the Rebels take control. The Cuban Revolution is an example that is close to us and recent enough to be used as an example.
The Civil War was a war for independence. The Confederate States wanted to be free of the Federal Government. The States were no longer United. This has happened and failed many times in history in many places on earth. Ireland has seen a few. Spain sees the effort now and then as the Catalan areas argue for freedom from the National Government. Americans supported the effort in Northern Ireland in the 1970's, and 1980's. We sent food, medicine, and money to support the fight for freedom.
But only the American effort is mislabeled, and misrepresented. No one calls the Irish revolts Civil Wars. Many Southerners still call the war the "War of Northern Aggression". That name may be a bit too far the other way, but it is closer to the truth than Civil War.
Second. Slavery. It would have ended anyway. It would have ended within a couple decades. Industrialization was happening. There was no stopping it. Machines were being designed to replace people, and the invention of the machines to take over from the field hands was already underway. So arguing that if the South had won then Slavery would have continued through to the middle of the twentieth century is fantasy. It deserves the same sort of serious contemplation as Lord of the Rings.
Third. Memorials. The Catalan people are proud of those who stood up and were punished for demanding freedom. Amnesty International was formed when Basque people raised a toast to freedom and were arrested for it. There is no need to tear down memorials, and the argument that they are up to honor slavery is asinine.
Yes, there are some idiots who feel their skin color is the main factor in how awesome they are. That is on both sides. Video: Democrats shouting down the "wrong sort" of Democrats at NN17 - Hot Air
There are Blacks who vote Democrat who hate Whites just because of skin color. Does that mean all Democrats are racist? There are Civil War aficionados who want to preserve the history, and the memorials, who would rather eat a raw turd than hurt someone because they were a different color.
The average soldier in the Civil War, the boys and young men who marched off with rifles on their shoulders did not fight for slavery. They were fighting for their rights. The same as the young men and boys who marched with Washington against the British. They're the same kids who stood the wall in New Orleans. They're the same who stood up every time the need arose. They didn't fight to subjugate anyone.
The Movie "The Patriot" has a brilliant quote. A man can have his rights trampled by three thousand men one mile away as easily as one man three thousand miles away. That is why the South fought.
Has this nation endured a lot of racial animosity? Yes. Busing riots in the South in the 1960's, and in the north ten years later. Does it still happen today? Yes. Without a doubt. I'll never deny or make any claim otherwise. We learn to deal with it, we learn about each other by talking. Not shouting at each other. If you want to discredit a White Supremicist don't shout him down, stand back and let him make a damned fool of himself. If you want to discredit a Black Racist, let him talk. They'll do all the work for you. A vast majority of the people will walk away wondering what is wrong with those idiots. Those same people will walk away wondering why they were not allowed to talk, because people want to read what they're not supposed to.
Most kids read the books on the banned list to see what is so bad they shouldn't be exposed to it. Most people try to find the website that is so bad it had to be banned. All you do by banning the speech, the words, and the ideals, is make sure more people are exposed to them, and wonder what was so bad about it. You legitimize it, instead of deligitimizing it.
Fahrenheit 451 is a terrible book. It's boring, wordy, and a chore to read. But we read it because it's a book about banning books that almost inevitably ends up being banned. Ayn Rand's incredibly slow moving tome Atlas Shrugged was made into three movies. They grossed about fifty bucks at the theaters. The final one was realeased not to DVD, but free download.
Banning them didn't do anything, let them talk, then let the people decide. By tearing down the monuments, by demanding that they be torn down, you do nothing but increase the imagined value of the things you are denouncing. Why do you think that the first thing the Soviet's did was start claiming all history before the October Revolution was sort of unimportant nonsense that the Capitalists would only care about?
You are making their case by trying to silence them. You are helping them by shouting them down. You are hurting your own cause by demanding that they be punished for whatever.
The first lesson that should be learned is that the Civil War as not a Civil War. A Civil War by definition is two factions fighting for control of the Government. Usually these are rebels and loyalists. Usually the Loyalists win, but a few times in history, the Rebels take control. The Cuban Revolution is an example that is close to us and recent enough to be used as an example.
The Civil War was a war for independence. The Confederate States wanted to be free of the Federal Government. The States were no longer United. This has happened and failed many times in history in many places on earth. Ireland has seen a few. Spain sees the effort now and then as the Catalan areas argue for freedom from the National Government. Americans supported the effort in Northern Ireland in the 1970's, and 1980's. We sent food, medicine, and money to support the fight for freedom.
But only the American effort is mislabeled, and misrepresented. No one calls the Irish revolts Civil Wars. Many Southerners still call the war the "War of Northern Aggression". That name may be a bit too far the other way, but it is closer to the truth than Civil War.
Second. Slavery. It would have ended anyway. It would have ended within a couple decades. Industrialization was happening. There was no stopping it. Machines were being designed to replace people, and the invention of the machines to take over from the field hands was already underway. So arguing that if the South had won then Slavery would have continued through to the middle of the twentieth century is fantasy. It deserves the same sort of serious contemplation as Lord of the Rings.
Third. Memorials. The Catalan people are proud of those who stood up and were punished for demanding freedom. Amnesty International was formed when Basque people raised a toast to freedom and were arrested for it. There is no need to tear down memorials, and the argument that they are up to honor slavery is asinine.
Yes, there are some idiots who feel their skin color is the main factor in how awesome they are. That is on both sides. Video: Democrats shouting down the "wrong sort" of Democrats at NN17 - Hot Air
There are Blacks who vote Democrat who hate Whites just because of skin color. Does that mean all Democrats are racist? There are Civil War aficionados who want to preserve the history, and the memorials, who would rather eat a raw turd than hurt someone because they were a different color.
The average soldier in the Civil War, the boys and young men who marched off with rifles on their shoulders did not fight for slavery. They were fighting for their rights. The same as the young men and boys who marched with Washington against the British. They're the same kids who stood the wall in New Orleans. They're the same who stood up every time the need arose. They didn't fight to subjugate anyone.
The Movie "The Patriot" has a brilliant quote. A man can have his rights trampled by three thousand men one mile away as easily as one man three thousand miles away. That is why the South fought.
Has this nation endured a lot of racial animosity? Yes. Busing riots in the South in the 1960's, and in the north ten years later. Does it still happen today? Yes. Without a doubt. I'll never deny or make any claim otherwise. We learn to deal with it, we learn about each other by talking. Not shouting at each other. If you want to discredit a White Supremicist don't shout him down, stand back and let him make a damned fool of himself. If you want to discredit a Black Racist, let him talk. They'll do all the work for you. A vast majority of the people will walk away wondering what is wrong with those idiots. Those same people will walk away wondering why they were not allowed to talk, because people want to read what they're not supposed to.
Most kids read the books on the banned list to see what is so bad they shouldn't be exposed to it. Most people try to find the website that is so bad it had to be banned. All you do by banning the speech, the words, and the ideals, is make sure more people are exposed to them, and wonder what was so bad about it. You legitimize it, instead of deligitimizing it.
Fahrenheit 451 is a terrible book. It's boring, wordy, and a chore to read. But we read it because it's a book about banning books that almost inevitably ends up being banned. Ayn Rand's incredibly slow moving tome Atlas Shrugged was made into three movies. They grossed about fifty bucks at the theaters. The final one was realeased not to DVD, but free download.
Banning them didn't do anything, let them talk, then let the people decide. By tearing down the monuments, by demanding that they be torn down, you do nothing but increase the imagined value of the things you are denouncing. Why do you think that the first thing the Soviet's did was start claiming all history before the October Revolution was sort of unimportant nonsense that the Capitalists would only care about?
You are making their case by trying to silence them. You are helping them by shouting them down. You are hurting your own cause by demanding that they be punished for whatever.