"Merry Christmas" signs at my school

[Jimmyeatworld]

Instead of making fun of those who support the rights of other religions among the majority Christians, why not take a moment to imagine how you'd feel if Islamic displays were everywhere in the U.S., and you were Muslim?

If I were Muslim, and 85% of the U.S. was Islamic, I would expect there to be Islamic displays everywhere.

If I am a Cowboys fan, and 85% of the people around me are Broncos fans, I would expect to see Broncos stuff everywhere. If I like ham and cheese sandwiches, and 85% of the people that go to the sandwich shop like turkey and swiss, I would expect the sandwich shop to carry more turkey and swiss. That's just what happens when more than three quarters of the people have a preference.

Now, imagine being in the majority, and having the minority using false justification to cloak your preference.

 

[KarlMarx]

So to all of you viewers out there, have a merry Christmas, happy Hanukah, kwazy Kwanza, terrific Tet, and a solemn and respectable Ramadan, now a word from my god: our sponsor.

Happy Non-Denominational Winter Holiday!

 

[Abbey Normal]

If I were Muslim, and 85% of the U.S. was Islamic, I would expect there to be Islamic displays everywhere.

If I am a Cowboys fan, and 85% of the people around me are Broncos fans, I would expect to see Broncos stuff everywhere. If I like ham and cheese sandwiches, and 85% of the people that go to the sandwich shop like turkey and swiss, I would expect the sandwich shop to carry more turkey and swiss. That's just what happens when more than three quarters of the people have a preference.

Now, imagine being in the majority, and having the minority using false justification to cloak your preference.

Great analogies. Rep for you.

 

[Semper Fi]

Personally, I've never had anybody greet me in December with "Happy Hannukuh" or "Happy Kwanza", but if I did, I'd probably feel more diverse and understanding of our culture. What's the big deal? Just because the majority of Americans express their winter gratitude by wishing people a Merry Christmas doesn't mean all others are obligated or required to. If a Jewish store-owner wishes to celebrate his holiday on the glass of his window, more glory to him.

If "Happy Holidays" was the status quo, we would become tapioca pudding, no diversity, and no respect for religion other than for its commercial significance. SOley limiting 'Merry Christmas' to schools is violating, I can understand that, but to ban it altogether is just fascist. That's wy i'm glad theres a half a brain somehwere in my school that can recognize ALL religions in our hallways.

 

[KarlMarx]

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<img src="http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodies/tolerate_this.jpg"></a><center>

 

[Mariner]

that's an interesting point about the ACLU. I agree that there's a level of ridiculous PC hysteria. Personally, as a Hindu, I have no problem wishing Christian friends "Merry Christmas." Department stores, though, have the problem of how to advertise to people of every religion without offending anyone.

But a good part of the hysteria comes from the right. In today's Times, Nicholas Kristoff notest that during its "War on Christmas" theme so far, Fox news has had 58 individual bits on this "war"--while not mentioning the genocide in Darfur once. He points out that true courageous Christians are showing the holiday spirit by working to help those in need and in trouble, while O'Reilly fans fake flames to raise ratings and $$. He quotes Christian aid people who worry he's giving them a bad name.

(So many people here seem to speak straight from Fox News, with its fixed "red state" viewpoint. Ironic that Fox is owned by the very blue Rupert Murdoch, whose main money-making is from sleazy tabloids. He must be laughing all the way to the bank as he simultaneously plays both sides, whipping everyone up into a frenzy of culture war hot air.)

Kathianne--right, the Constitution does not specify separation of church and state. But where did this separation theory come from? It didn't come from Muslims seeking relief because they were being discriminated against by Christians. It came from Catholics, in the 1950's, seeking relief from discrimination by Protestants.

Irish and Italian immigrants faced help-wanted signs that read, "Catholics need not apply." Protecing other religions was a side effect, not the main purpose. The fact that one group of Christians needed this type of protection from another shows how important this law is, even if it is a slight extension of the Constitution. It's certainly in the spirit of the Constitution.

Mariner.

 

[Hobbit]

that's an interesting point about the ACLU. I agree that there's a level of ridiculous PC hysteria. Personally, as a Hindu, I have no problem wishing Christian friends "Merry Christmas." Department stores, though, have the problem of how to advertise to people of every religion without offending anyone.

But a good part of the hysteria comes from the right. In today's Times, Nicholas Kristoff notest that during its "War on Christmas" theme so far, Fox news has had 58 individual bits on this "war"--while not mentioning the genocide in Darfur once. He points out that true courageous Christians are showing the holiday spirit by working to help those in need and in trouble, while O'Reilly fans fake flames to raise ratings and $$. He quotes Christian aid people who worry he's giving them a bad name.

(So many people here seem to speak straight from Fox News, with its fixed "red state" viewpoint. Ironic that Fox is owned by the very blue Rupert Murdoch, whose main money-making is from sleazy tabloids. He must be laughing all the way to the bank as he simultaneously plays both sides, whipping everyone up into a frenzy of culture war hot air.)

Kathianne--right, the Constitution does not specify separation of church and state. But where did this separation theory come from? It didn't come from Muslims seeking relief because they were being discriminated against by Christians. It came from Catholics, in the 1950's, seeking relief from discrimination by Protestants.

Irish and Italian immigrants faced help-wanted signs that read, "Catholics need not apply." Protecing other religions was a side effect, not the main purpose. The fact that one group of Christians needed this type of protection from another shows how important this law is, even if it is a slight extension of the Constitution. It's certainly in the spirit of the Constitution.

Mariner.

Your info's wrong. The modern incarnation of 'seperation of church and state' actually came from a protestant organization seeking to squelch the Catholic voice in the public sector. In fact, that organization is still around under a different name. It was originally "Protestant American United for Separation of Church and State." It's always been a tool to oppress, never to 'liberate.'

And I've NEVER seen a normally happy person get offended by being wished a "Merry Christmas." Any time I've seen someone take offense at that, I thought they had a stick up their butt long before. The idea that you have to use a religion neutral slogan to keep from scaring of customers is ludicrous. If they're offended by "Merry Christmas," they'll probably find something else to be offended by if you take it down.

And that whole "Why do people care when there's stuff about Darfur." Well, do you have anything new from Darfur? We all know what's going on down there, that we don't have the manpower to handle it, and that the U.N. refuses to even acknowledge it's wrong. It's like the whole idiocy over how much Bush spent on his inauguration party, when he could have given that money to the poor. It's just idiotic. The War on Christmas is news. Darfur may also be news, but there's only so much you can say. Just because Darfur is the most horrible thing happening in the world doesn't mean it should monopolize airtime.

 

[MissileMan]

And I've NEVER seen a normally happy person get offended by being wished a "Merry Christmas."

And I've never seen a NORMAL person get offended by being wished "Happy Holidays."

Sounds like a non-ethnic specific stand-off. :teeth:

 

[007]

And I've never seen a NORMAL person get offended by being wished "Happy Holidays."

Sounds like a non-ethnic specific stand-off. :teeth:

And I've never seen a NORMAL person offended by "Merry Christmas".

This is no stand off MM, it's an all our war against Christmas by the heathen liberals. They'll never give up, and neither will we in opposition to them.

 

[KarlMarx]

Another ironic fact

many Christmas carols and songs were written by Jews....

* "We Need a Little Christmas" (Jerry Herman).

* "Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer," "Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree" and "A Holly Jolly Christmas" (Johnny Marks).

* "The Christmas Waltz" and "Let It Snow, Let It Snow, Let It Snow" (Sammy Cahn and Jule Styne).

* "Silver Bells" (Ray Evans, lyricist, and Jay Livingston, composer).

* "A Christmas Song" (you know "Chestnuts roasting on an open fire...") (Mel Torme)

* "White Christmas" (Irivng Berlin)

 

[007]

If I were Muslim, and 85% of the U.S. was Islamic, I would expect there to be Islamic displays everywhere.

If I am a Cowboys fan, and 85% of the people around me are Broncos fans, I would expect to see Broncos stuff everywhere. If I like ham and cheese sandwiches, and 85% of the people that go to the sandwich shop like turkey and swiss, I would expect the sandwich shop to carry more turkey and swiss. That's just what happens when more than three quarters of the people have a preference.

Now, imagine being in the majority, and having the minority using false justification to cloak your preference.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

And I've never seen a NORMAL person offended by "Merry Christmas".

This is no stand off MM, it's an all our war against Christmas by the heathen liberals. They'll never give up, and neither will we in opposition to them.

Are you offended by Happy Holidays?

 

[007]

Are you offended by Happy Holidays?

Not offended. Disappointed. That such a small, caustic, angry, shrill, godless few, can make the vast majority bend to their heathen demands and pressure.

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Are you offended by Happy Holidays?

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer anyway. :teeth:

Personally, I'm not offended by someone saying Happy Holidays, as long as it's sincere. I have no problem with nice greetings or well wishing of any kind, and if I say Merry Christmas to someone I would hope they would take it the same way.

What I do have a problem with is places like Wal Mart making it a national policy to specifically avoid saying a certain phrase like Merry Christmas. As I've pointed out before, the area where I live is made up of people that celebrate Christmas, probably as much as 95%. The other 5% is largely made up of people that don't care what it's called, as long as they get off work or out of school. I think what they say in a store, or anywhere else within a community for that matter, should reflect the community.

If you open a store in a neighborhood that is 90% Jewish and 10% Christian, you would want to display things that say Happy Hannukuh, and you should be allowed to do that. If you opened that store specifically to serve the other 10%, then you should be allowed to display things that say Merry Christmas.

Just to add, the nearest Wal Mart where I live is ignoring the national policy. They say Merry Christmas, and they even play Christmas music in the store. Not just stuff like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, but Silent Night and Noel.

 

[Abbey Normal]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer anyway. :teeth:

Personally, I'm not offended by someone saying Happy Holidays, as long as it's sincere. I have no problem with nice greetings or well wishing of any kind, and if I say Merry Christmas to someone I would hope they would take it the same way.

What I do have a problem with is places like Wal Mart making it a national policy to specifically avoid saying a certain phrase like Merry Christmas. As I've pointed out before, the area where I live is made up of people that celebrate Christmas, probably as much as 95%. The other 5% is largely made up of people that don't care what it's called, as long as they get off work or out of school. I think what they say in a store, or anywhere else within a community for that matter, should reflect the community.

If you open a store in a neighborhood that is 90% Jewish and 10% Christian, you would want to display things that say Happy Hannukuh, and you should be allowed to do that. If you opened that store specifically to serve the other 10%, then you should be allowed to display things that say Merry Christmas.

Just to add, the nearest Wal Mart where I live is ignoring the national policy. They say Merry Christmas, and they even play Christmas music in the store. Not just stuff like Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer, but Silent Night and Noel.

Perfectly stated, Jim. Anyone who claims they don't understand what's wrong with stores saying and printing only Happy Holidays should be forced to read your post.

 

[KarlMarx]

Not offended. Disappointed. That such a small, caustic, angry, shrill, godless few, can make the vast majority bend to their heathen demands and pressure.

That reminds me of the old saying...

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do"...

BTW... the Christians eventually inherited that great and ancient empire, didn't they?

 

[ScreamingEagle]

that's an interesting point about the ACLU. I agree that there's a level of ridiculous PC hysteria. Personally, as a Hindu, I have no problem wishing Christian friends "Merry Christmas." Department stores, though, have the problem of how to advertise to people of every religion without offending anyone.

But a good part of the hysteria comes from the right. In today's Times, Nicholas Kristoff notest that during its "War on Christmas" theme so far, Fox news has had 58 individual bits on this "war"--while not mentioning the genocide in Darfur once. He points out that true courageous Christians are showing the holiday spirit by working to help those in need and in trouble, while O'Reilly fans fake flames to raise ratings and $$. He quotes Christian aid people who worry he's giving them a bad name.

(So many people here seem to speak straight from Fox News, with its fixed "red state" viewpoint. Ironic that Fox is owned by the very blue Rupert Murdoch, whose main money-making is from sleazy tabloids. He must be laughing all the way to the bank as he simultaneously plays both sides, whipping everyone up into a frenzy of culture war hot air.)

Kathianne--right, the Constitution does not specify separation of church and state. But where did this separation theory come from? It didn't come from Muslims seeking relief because they were being discriminated against by Christians. It came from Catholics, in the 1950's, seeking relief from discrimination by Protestants.

Irish and Italian immigrants faced help-wanted signs that read, "Catholics need not apply." Protecing other religions was a side effect, not the main purpose. The fact that one group of Christians needed this type of protection from another shows how important this law is, even if it is a slight extension of the Constitution. It's certainly in the spirit of the Constitution.

Mariner.

Darfur is a horrible situation. Genocide of any sort is horrible. Why the mostly Left-controlled media will not cover Darfur is a good question. It's not only Fox ignoring it. However, suppression of any kind is a sensitive issue. When things hit close to home and in a personal way people will always pay more attention to that than to something half way around the world. You can call the concern about Christmas "hysteria" but I call it defense of our basic freedoms. Frankly, I wish Americans would get much more upset about the many erosions of their freedoms that are occurring today.

If you're so worried about genocide, then maybe you should think about how genocide can get started. It can begin when religious expression of one group is not acceptable to another, non-religious, group. Genocide is the systematic elimination of any ethnic, racial, or religious group.

The Christians in this country are NOT the ones who are attempting to suffocate free expression of anybody. It's the people you seem to support, aka The Left, who are the ones attempting to suffocate and stamp out the freedom to express religion and personal opinion in this country. The Left has become the oppressor. The ACLU and the Left Wing libs are attempting to suppress freedom of religious expression in this country by pretending that they are being "fair" to all by instituting a "secular" society. Hey, Saddam had a "secular" society. "Secular" does not necessarily equate to being "fair".

Fast forward, and the oppression of religious expression in America could one day become genocide of those who refuse to conform to the atheistic/secular viewpoint. This may not only include Christians and Jews, but Hindus and Muslims too. We've seen genocide many times in this world. History has a way of repeating itself unless we are vigilant in preserving our freedoms.

 

[MissileMan]

If I like ham and cheese sandwiches, and 85% of the people that go to the sandwich shop like turkey and swiss, I would expect the sandwich shop to carry more turkey and swiss.

Absolutely...your stock would be based on demand. If you were going to run this store, and reach out to the maximum number of customers possible in order to make maximum profits, would you name it "The Sandwich Shop" or "Turkey and Swiss"?

 

[Abbey Normal]

Absolutely...your stock would be based on demand. If you were going to run this store, and reach out to the maximum number of customers possible in order to make maximum profits, would you name it "The Sandwich Shop" or "Turkey and Swiss"?

I would call it "Abbey's Sandwich Department Store", but I would hang big banners promoting "Merry Turkey Sandwiches" and I would instruct my employees to make sure that all of my customers who believe in turkey-eating feel especially welcome, because they are, after all, my biggest customer base. I would especially emphasize my turkey sandwiches during big turkey-eating times of the year, if those could be easily identified, say, like Christmas can be.

 

[Mariner]

to understand why it is important to Christians for private entities like department stores to help them celebrate their holiday... ?

It's equally unclear to me why some Christians want public entities such as public schools to recite the "under God" phrase that was added to the Pledge of Allegiance in the mid-1950's when we were deathly afraid of communism.

Christianity did indeed inherit the Roman Empire. You'd think it would feel confident enough in itself to celebrate on its own time, rather than getting mad if private and public entities didn't play along.

Mariner

PS regarding church-state separation law--I looked into it a little but need to do some more research. I read somewhere that it was discrimination against Catholics that prompted the main Supreme Court decisions.