Merged Credit downgrade threads

[JoeB131]

The people will bame the Tea Party for this, correctly.

The guy I'd blame is the guy who ran up 4 trillion in new debt in 4 1/2 years, the guy who did two QE excercises that flooded the world economy with US dollars, the guy who spent 900 billion on a stimulus that created jobs at a cost of $800,000 each.

This one's got Obama's fingerprints all over it.

 

[Toro]

...

 

[Toro]

Your absolutely correct and the Republicans were right to go after entitlements and they had Obama willing to address Medicare. But instead of focusing on deficit reduction and making the big deal they decided to protect tax loopholes that should have been closed anyway.

The Republicans walked away from the right deal because they prioritized obscene tax loopholes over addressing the deficit and entitlements. The deficit deal promoted by the Gang of 6 was mostly entitlement reform but because it made some attempt to address the $600B revenue shortfall the House Republicans blocked it.

Their position was extreme and obscene and the country is paying as a result

Here is how we get our AAA rating back.

Cut spending.
Raise taxes.

Anyone who says "We can't do it by cutting SS or Medicare" or "We can't do it by raising taxes," you are a reason why we are at AA+ this morning.

We were downgraded not because of the politicians but because of the people. If the people had told them to get our house in order, then we would have. But that's not what happened. We had stridently ideological people on both sides responding to their stridently ideological bases who want fealty to their strident ideology before the fiscal health of the nation.

 

[Ravi]

This puts Obama in a hard place...he has two options:

1. Accept responsibility, like an adult, by admitting failure.

2. Blame the Republicans, demonstrating that he lacks the ability to control a minority party in time of crisis.

A large part of the reason for the downgrade is because S&P doesn't believe the Republicans will let the Bush tax cuts expire.

 

[JakeStarkey]

eagleseven just explained that eagleseven is lost in this discussion.

 

[Toro]

Speaking of Leaders

Flashback: S&P Raised Texas' Bond Ratings from AA to AA+ , thanks to Perry


Tip: Ace of Spades

AUSTIN – Standard & Poor’s (S&P) has raised Texas’ issuer credit and general obligation credit ratings to AA+ from AA based on the state’s strong and diverse economy and strong leadership from the governor and Legislature that has left a projected $9 billion in the state’s Rainy Day Fund. S&P also raised its rating on the state’s appropriation debt to AA from AA-.

“The ratings continue to reflect our opinion of the state's large and steadily diversifying economy, which despite the recession continues to perform better than the nation in terms of both economic activity and employment,” S&P credit analyst Horacio Aldrete-Sanchez said. “Furthermore, we expect that the Texas economy will recover earlier and at a faster rate than most other states given its continued population growth and relatively low cost of doing business, which we expect will contribute to gradual employment gains in 2010, particularly in the health, education and services sectors.”

S&P’s decision was based on Texas’ 2010-11 biennial budget, the state’s strong Rainy Day Fund, and Texas’ low tax-supported debt burden. The higher rating means Texas will pay lower interest on money it borrows, saving of millions of taxpayer dollars.


​

Yes, thanks to Perry.

And oil that went from $8 to $140.

 

[Toro]

They lowered it because congress didnt go far enough to shore up its finances. This is 100% on the fault of the Tea Party and Republicans. They needed to raise taxes on the wealthy and didnt. Now we have this!!!!!!!!!!!

class warfare ain't going to save your sorry spending other people's money asshole.

It's not class warfare you dumbass look at the numbers. Revenue is at 14% of GDP when historically it has been between 17-20%. When the total non defense discretionary budget is only 3% you aren't going to affect the budget without some revenue enhancements.

It is clear to Alan Simpson, it is clear to the Gang of six, it is clear to S&P. It is clear to the whole damm country except the idiots in the tea party most of whom barely have a college education.

Simpson-Bowles was the framework for a good plan.

But the President rejected it.

 

[ekrem]

Long overdue, it should have been decreased by 2 notches at once.
At least one of the American Credit Rating Agencies is concerned about its reputation and has acted.

 

[Toro]

Owned in the face... And the best part is they never say taxes are the way to get revenue, they could mean policy that grows the economy but hey, being they are clear on spending and "entitlement spending" specifically as being a problem but don’t say "taxes needed to be raised" what do we get?? We get people trying to claim spending cuts are not needed but of course higher taxes are!

Please stop making this political. Other countries with much higher tax rates and much higher spending rates than America have AAA ratings.

Which country that currently has a AAA rating has a higher corporate tax rate? Which one has higher spending rates? WHAT F-ING ONE, PROVIDE A SOURCE GODDAMN IT

Really? You think this is about corporate taxes?

Here are the countries with a AAA rating, excluding tiny nation states such as Luxembourg and Singapore.

Australia
Austria
Canada
Denmark
Finland
France
Germany
Netherlands
Norway
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom

The Last Countries Left With Triple-A Rating - 24/7 Wall St.

Do you know which of these countries have a higher tax take than the US?

I'll let you think about it for a minute.
















Figured it out yet?

The answer is "all of them."

Revenue Statistics - Comparative tables

If you are arguing "We can't raise taxes to fix the deficit," you are part of the problem.

 

[Toro]

Toro, see if you can keep up on this PLEASE! More taxes would have NOT raised enough revenue to put even a dent in the deficit... Cuts would have and could have quickly balanced the budget... Obama, The Senate and the house all votes yes to a crap budget that didn't raise taxes nor did it do any meaningful cuts at all...

This played out just as many of us (me too) predicted! So why would I listen to others when they get it wrong over and over?

It is an utter fantasy to say that "cuts would have quickly balanced the budget." The deficit is 10% of GDP. Ideologues only hear what they want to hear to confirm their own biases.

 

[ekrem]

It was gonna happen, we haven't deserved the AAA rating for quite awhile. And it's not just on the Dems either, it's not like the GOP were as fiscally responsible under Bush43 as they shoulda been.

Reality has come to America.
At least a little bit of equality in the world has been established today.
S&P's outlook is "negative" so further downgrade is possible in near future.
This is no Disneyland where American Credit-Rating Agencies declare countries like Greece as junk-status and USA gets away with best possible Rating whilst USA is piling up debt in creepy speed and dimensions (deficit).

Trouble is just beginning if USA doesn't act decisively.

 

[Toro]

Technically, the reasons ARE political in that the parties can't get together and fix this shit...

I thought about that after I posted it, and you are right.

What I was trying to confer was that highly political people are trying to shape the debate that confirms their own political beliefs, whether those beliefs are true or not.

We have to cut spending. This is primarily a spending problem. But those who say we can't raise taxes under any circumstances to increase revenue are not only living in a fairy tale, it belies American contemporary history. Recent Presidents who raised taxes which raised revenues include;

Clinton
Bush I
Reagan

Not only that, Reagan raised taxes when unemployment was 10.8%!

Yet, we can't raise any taxes in this decade, when federal taxes are 15% of GDP, the lowest in 60 years?

 

[Full-Auto]

Technically, the reasons ARE political in that the parties can't get together and fix this shit...

I thought about that after I posted it, and you are right.

What I was trying to confer was that highly political people are trying to shape the debate that confirms their own political beliefs, whether those beliefs are true or not.

We have to cut spending. This is primarily a spending problem. But those who say we can't raise taxes under any circumstances to increase revenue are not only living in a fairy tale, it belies American contemporary history. Recent Presidents who raised taxes which raised revenues include;

Clinton
Bush I
Reagan

Yet, we can't raise any taxes in this decade, when federal taxes are 15% of GDP?

Cut spending, demonstrate you can spend it wisely and most of the opposition goes away. Until then A BIG KMA remains in order.

 

[Toro]

Technically, the reasons ARE political in that the parties can't get together and fix this shit...

I thought about that after I posted it, and you are right.

What I was trying to confer was that highly political people are trying to shape the debate that confirms their own political beliefs, whether those beliefs are true or not.

We have to cut spending. This is primarily a spending problem. But those who say we can't raise taxes under any circumstances to increase revenue are not only living in a fairy tale, it belies American contemporary history. Recent Presidents who raised taxes which raised revenues include;

Clinton
Bush I
Reagan

Yet, we can't raise any taxes in this decade, when federal taxes are 15% of GDP?

Cut spending, demonstrate you can spend it wisely and most of the opposition goes away. Until then A BIG KMA remains in order.

As does the AA+ rating.

Likewise, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire, we would reduce our projected accumulated debt over the next decade by a third. S&P would like that. But that runs counter to the religion on one side of the political spectrum.

That's why this isn't about the rating.

 

[Toro]

An abdication of political responsibility on both sides of the aisle.

Simpson-Bowles Commission

 

[Full-Auto]

I thought about that after I posted it, and you are right.

What I was trying to confer was that highly political people are trying to shape the debate that confirms their own political beliefs, whether those beliefs are true or not.

We have to cut spending. This is primarily a spending problem. But those who say we can't raise taxes under any circumstances to increase revenue are not only living in a fairy tale, it belies American contemporary history. Recent Presidents who raised taxes which raised revenues include;

Clinton
Bush I
Reagan

Yet, we can't raise any taxes in this decade, when federal taxes are 15% of GDP?

Cut spending, demonstrate you can spend it wisely and most of the opposition goes away. Until then A BIG KMA remains in order.

As does the AA+ rating.

Likewise, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire, we would reduce our projected accumulated debt over the next decade by a third. S&P would like that. But that runs counter to the religion on one side of the political spectrum.

That's why this isn't about the rating.

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

 

[BoycottTheday]

Id downgrade ya'll to, matter of fact i did it two years ago, bet against the USA was my investment advice, big money was to be made doing just that.

Who in their right mind would loan you a penny anyways? Buy your debt? Please get bent.

Maybe if the Oman hadnt increased the his limo fleet from 238 to 412 you wouldnt be in this mess.

And why does it cost 4 mil. a year to operate one limo?

Does the first lady need 40 personal assistants to fly around the world with?

With crap like that going on in the white house only someone wanting to own you would lend you money.

Sure blame the teaparty, blame white people, blame the second amendment, make my day.

 

[ekrem]

Americans will plunge the world into another crisis, which again will hit "Western" world the most and will further accelerate Asia's rise.
You make it very easy these days.

 

[Toro]

Cut spending, demonstrate you can spend it wisely and most of the opposition goes away. Until then A BIG KMA remains in order.

As does the AA+ rating.

Likewise, if we let the Bush tax cuts expire, we would reduce our projected accumulated debt over the next decade by a third. S&P would like that. But that runs counter to the religion on one side of the political spectrum.

That's why this isn't about the rating.

Does that include the increased deficit that Obama care creates? You are aware the former head of the CBO stated that it was underestimated by a trillion dollars.

The CBO estimates that extension of the Bush tax cuts will add $3.5 trillion to the national debt. So if the CBO head says that the health plan will add $1 trillion in spending, the debt would still be $2.5 trillion less.

Both parties are to blame. Just like Republicans were grossly irresponsible for saying that taxes were off the table, so was the administration for saying that the health care plan was also off the table. Both should be on the table.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The comments on this thread are predictable. The Obamabots laughably try to blame the Republicans. Talk about hubris. And the Republicans likewise pretend that because a Democrat is in the White House they have nothing to do with this.

The fact of the matter is this is the result of fiscal mismanagement going back several decades by politicians unqualified to run a government and a couple generations of Americans who are too stupid and greedy to pull their own weight. Both parties share equal blame for what has happened to our nation's economy and financial prowess and the people who elected them to destroy it are just as responsible.