Marwan Barghouti

[Coyote]

MOD NOTE - I moved a number of off topic posts to a new thread here: Civilians vs Combatents

So we can discuss the issue of civilians and combatents in it's own thread

 

[Coyote]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

How is that?

WOW, that is quite an issue. Look at the US coup against the Palestinian Authority in 2007. I have started threads about this but got no response...well except for some name calling by the usual suspects.

BTW, I think Info live is an Israeli news source.

I'll have to look at that

 

[Shusha]

I can start a thread on civilians vs combatents (and yes, it's a good topic) - I'll do that and move some posts.

Awesome. Thank you for all your hard work doing that.

 

[Challenger]

I found this snippet an interesting insight to the current state of Palestinian political viewpoints. Even on a TV "reality show" to "elect" a Palestinian President none of the candidates could gwet elected without promising to, "Boycott Israel. Designate East Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine. Bring about a reconciliation for the bitterly divided Palestinians between the West Bank and Gaza." and it also showed the seemier side of western-style "democracy" where elections can be, and often are, bought. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/04/w...reality-show-president.html?mabReward=A6&_r=0

 

[Challenger]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

The last (and only) free elections in Palestine only occurred with Zionist Israeli co-operation; by allowing free movement of Palestinians through checkpoints so they could vote. The Zionists (and the US) firmly believed they'd get a "Quisling" Fatah regime as a result, but instead had to preside over a Hamas landslide victory due to the fact that so many international observers prevented any electoral fraud. I can't see the Americans or the Zionist israelis making that mistake again.

 

[Challenger]

This is an interesting take on the subject. Israel wants a peace process – but only if it’s doomed to fail

 

[Esmeralda]

Because of comments, made elsewhere in another thread....I thought this could make an interesting discussion.

Could Barghouti be the one that might be able to turn the Palestinians around from their perpetual impasse? Could he unite them under one voice? Would he be able to negotiate for a two-state solution?

From Israeli perspectives (rightwing and leftwing)

Meet the next Palestinian president

In the interim, Barghouti’s associates have nominated him as a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize, with the help of Nobel laureates from Argentina and Tunisia, and are trying to brand him as a Palestinian Nelson Mandela. He is, of course, nothing of the sort. He was an integral supporter and orchestrator of the armed Second Intifada, including suicide terror attacks after his comrade Raed al-Karmi was eliminated in Tulkarm in early 2002.​

His new plan may declaredly focus on nonviolent protest, but he is emphatically more radical than Abbas — hence the trust Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders place in him. His ostensible preference may be for a two-state solution arrived at via talks, but unlike Abbas, he believes that if talks do not work, the next recourse must be to take action — in other words, an intifada.​

In rare court appearance, Marwan Barghouti calls for a peace deal based on 1967 lines

However, in recent years Barghouti admitted that the Palestinians made a grave mistake by turning to terrorism. In countless interviews he said he supports "popular resistance" – that is, unarmed resistance.

Israelis will probably claim these are nothing more than tactical statements meant to expedite his release from prison. Whether this claim is right or not, Israel faces a greater problem in the near future: the Tanzim leader's intention to run for president, and likelihood he will get elected. According to all public opinion polls conducted in recent years, Barghouti is the only Fatah member who can easily beat any Hamas contender. In fact, the only scenario that can harm his chances to be elected is if Abbas decides to run again.​

From an outside perspective (BBC):

Profile: Marwan Barghouti - BBC News

The prospect of Barghouti's release has divided Israel, with some cabinet ministers arguing that as a reformist who could unite the rival Palestinian factions, he offers the best prospect for peace should Mr Abbas step down, and others saying someone convicted of five murders should never walk free.​

Ayman Odeh

“The thing I fear the most is that the Palestinians will grow so desperate about the impossibility of two states that they ask for one state,” Odeh said as we talked politics in the car. “Then the Israelis will say, ‘See, now they want Jaffa and Haifa!’ But all that will happen is that the two-state solution will be lost, and we will not gain a real one-state solution, either. It’s a one-state reality now, with parts of it being a military regime with an almost unimaginable gap socially.”

In Palestinian circles, the great unknown is who and what will follow Abbas, who has threatened repeatedly to resign. The usual candidates mentioned are flawed. Muhammad Dahlan, once a popular figure in Gaza, is widely considered corrupt. The head of intelligence, Majid Faraj, is unknown to most Palestinians. Salam Fayyad, the technocratic former Prime Minister, has great support in places like the International Monetary Fund but not on the streets of Jenin and Nablus. Finally, there is Marwan Barghouti, the most popular political figure in the West Bank. The only glitch is that Barghouti has been in prison since 2002, serving five life terms (plus forty years) for five counts of murder, including a role in the bombing of a restaurant in Tel Aviv. Not long after Odeh was elected to the Knesset, he visited Barghouti in prison. I asked him why.

“Barghouti is an interesting example of the different perspectives on the two sides,” he said. “I didn’t just visit him once. I visit him regularly. I see him as a real leader, the most loved Palestinian leader at the moment. But let’s be honest: Amir Peretz”—a former Israeli defense minister and deputy prime minister—“also visited him. Remember, even Nelson Mandela used arms. The worse crime is the occupation. I have no question that peaceful struggle is the way.”​

May just as well release Barghouti and let him give it a try. Hell, the unwashed here want Hillary for President and her crimes are no lesser than Marwan Barghouti's. I say go for it.

What absolute bullshit. Your partisanship is so all encompassing you have lost the ability to recognize and acknowledge reality. How pathetic.

 

[Phoenall]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

Palestinian Prisoners' Document - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not his platform, you really need to look at getting some English lessons.

 

[Phoenall]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

LINKS ? and from a unbiased source not your usual conspiracy sites. All it would take is for hams to set a date for a fill P.A. meeting in a neutral place and it would be a done deal.

 

[Phoenall]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

Palestinian Prisoners' Document - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Interesting - I went to the link that showed the entire revised document JMCC / Documents.

It could serve as a starting point for negotiations but I see some problems...

For example:
1- The Palestinian people in the homeland and in the Diaspora seek and struggle to liberate their land and remove the settlements and evacuate the settlers and remove the apartheid and annexation and separation wall and to achieve their right to freedom, return and independence and to exercise their right to self-determination, including the right to establish their independent state with al-Quds al-Shareef as its capital on all territories occupied in 1967, and to secure the right of return for refugees to their homes and properties from which they were evicted and to compensate them and to liberate all prisoners and detainees without any discrimination and all of this is based on the historical right of our people on the land of our forefathers and based on the UN Charter and international law and legitimacy in a way that does not affect the rights of our people.

That seems more than a bit unjust. "Settlements" include towns that have been there for generations, established communities on legally bought land and even communitees that preceded the establishment of Israel.

It calls for expelling all of those people (no talk of compensation) and simultaneiously calling for the "Right of Return" for all refugees and their descendents into Israel and to compensate them.

Perhaps - under negotiation....something could be worked out that would:
- allow for landswaps for large established towns and settlement blocks
- allow homeowners a choice of remaining in Palestine, or uprooting with compensation
- allow for a certain number of refugees to return and for those who can not, compensation

I advocated that many years ago with a two for one deal. For every 2 acres of stolen Jewish land 1 acre of Palestine would be given to the Jews. When the tally was done the arab muslims could keep the remaining Jewish land and pay the going rate for it. It would mean no more arab muslim claims for any part of Palestine and the arab muslims all returning to their homelands. Of course it would be a non starter as the muslims would have lost again to JUSTICE and FREEDOM.

The biggest problem you face is the arab muslims that point to windows in buildings less than 10 years old and say that was my bedroom as a child. Then being told that it was always a toilet

Would the compensation rules follow the UN recommendations or the muslim demands, recommendations already declined because the arab muslim invaders in 1949 would end up paying the most

 

[Phoenall]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

How is that?

WOW, that is quite an issue. Look at the US coup against the Palestinian Authority in 2007. I have started threads about this but got no response...well except for some name calling by the usual suspects.

BTW, I think Info live is an Israeli news source.

And you would be wrong, it is from Jerusalem and could be arab muslim

This is an interesting take on the subject. Israel wants a peace process – but only if it’s doomed to fail

A very biased and anti semitic source when you look at its media, but then this is what you use now as the real media sites are against your POV

 

[Hossfly]

Because of comments, made elsewhere in another thread....I thought this could make an interesting discussion.

Could Barghouti be the one that might be able to turn the Palestinians around from their perpetual impasse? Could he unite them under one voice? Would he be able to negotiate for a two-state solution?

From Israeli perspectives (rightwing and leftwing)

Meet the next Palestinian president

In the interim, Barghouti’s associates have nominated him as a candidate for the Nobel Peace Prize, with the help of Nobel laureates from Argentina and Tunisia, and are trying to brand him as a Palestinian Nelson Mandela. He is, of course, nothing of the sort. He was an integral supporter and orchestrator of the armed Second Intifada, including suicide terror attacks after his comrade Raed al-Karmi was eliminated in Tulkarm in early 2002.​

His new plan may declaredly focus on nonviolent protest, but he is emphatically more radical than Abbas — hence the trust Hamas and Islamic Jihad leaders place in him. His ostensible preference may be for a two-state solution arrived at via talks, but unlike Abbas, he believes that if talks do not work, the next recourse must be to take action — in other words, an intifada.​

In rare court appearance, Marwan Barghouti calls for a peace deal based on 1967 lines

However, in recent years Barghouti admitted that the Palestinians made a grave mistake by turning to terrorism. In countless interviews he said he supports "popular resistance" – that is, unarmed resistance.

Israelis will probably claim these are nothing more than tactical statements meant to expedite his release from prison. Whether this claim is right or not, Israel faces a greater problem in the near future: the Tanzim leader's intention to run for president, and likelihood he will get elected. According to all public opinion polls conducted in recent years, Barghouti is the only Fatah member who can easily beat any Hamas contender. In fact, the only scenario that can harm his chances to be elected is if Abbas decides to run again.​

From an outside perspective (BBC):

Profile: Marwan Barghouti - BBC News

The prospect of Barghouti's release has divided Israel, with some cabinet ministers arguing that as a reformist who could unite the rival Palestinian factions, he offers the best prospect for peace should Mr Abbas step down, and others saying someone convicted of five murders should never walk free.​

Ayman Odeh

“The thing I fear the most is that the Palestinians will grow so desperate about the impossibility of two states that they ask for one state,” Odeh said as we talked politics in the car. “Then the Israelis will say, ‘See, now they want Jaffa and Haifa!’ But all that will happen is that the two-state solution will be lost, and we will not gain a real one-state solution, either. It’s a one-state reality now, with parts of it being a military regime with an almost unimaginable gap socially.”

In Palestinian circles, the great unknown is who and what will follow Abbas, who has threatened repeatedly to resign. The usual candidates mentioned are flawed. Muhammad Dahlan, once a popular figure in Gaza, is widely considered corrupt. The head of intelligence, Majid Faraj, is unknown to most Palestinians. Salam Fayyad, the technocratic former Prime Minister, has great support in places like the International Monetary Fund but not on the streets of Jenin and Nablus. Finally, there is Marwan Barghouti, the most popular political figure in the West Bank. The only glitch is that Barghouti has been in prison since 2002, serving five life terms (plus forty years) for five counts of murder, including a role in the bombing of a restaurant in Tel Aviv. Not long after Odeh was elected to the Knesset, he visited Barghouti in prison. I asked him why.

“Barghouti is an interesting example of the different perspectives on the two sides,” he said. “I didn’t just visit him once. I visit him regularly. I see him as a real leader, the most loved Palestinian leader at the moment. But let’s be honest: Amir Peretz”—a former Israeli defense minister and deputy prime minister—“also visited him. Remember, even Nelson Mandela used arms. The worse crime is the occupation. I have no question that peaceful struggle is the way.”​

May just as well release Barghouti and let him give it a try. Hell, the unwashed here want Hillary for President and her crimes are no lesser than Marwan Barghouti's. I say go for it.

What absolute bullshit. Your partisanship is so all encompassing you have lost the ability to recognize and acknowledge reality. How pathetic.

Can you translate that gobbletygook so the laymen can understand just WTF you're howling about?

 

[P F Tinmore]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

LINKS ? and from a unbiased source not your usual conspiracy sites. All it would take is for hams to set a date for a fill P.A. meeting in a neutral place and it would be a done deal.

It is too complicated for you. Answer this one question, it will help you understand.

Farah lost the elections yet it is called the PA in the West Bank. How did that happen?

 

[P F Tinmore]

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

How is that?

WOW, that is quite an issue. Look at the US coup against the Palestinian Authority in 2007. I have started threads about this but got no response...well except for some name calling by the usual suspects.

BTW, I think Info live is an Israeli news source.

And you would be wrong, it is from Jerusalem and could be arab muslim

This is an interesting take on the subject. Israel wants a peace process – but only if it’s doomed to fail

A very biased and anti semitic source when you look at its media, but then this is what you use now as the real media sites are against your POV

How about a CBC Canada report?

 

[Hollie]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

LINKS ? and from a unbiased source not your usual conspiracy sites. All it would take is for hams to set a date for a fill P.A. meeting in a neutral place and it would be a done deal.

It is too complicated for you. Answer this one question, it will help you understand.

Farah lost the elections yet it is called the PA in the West Bank. How did that happen?

I just know there's a conspiracy theory involving the Jews and the
Great Satan lurking there somewhere.

It's remarkable how ineffectual and impotent the pro-Islamic terrorist taqiyya movement types want their heroes to be.

 

[Hollie]

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

How is that?

WOW, that is quite an issue. Look at the US coup against the Palestinian Authority in 2007. I have started threads about this but got no response...well except for some name calling by the usual suspects.

BTW, I think Info live is an Israeli news source.

And you would be wrong, it is from Jerusalem and could be arab muslim

This is an interesting take on the subject. Israel wants a peace process – but only if it’s doomed to fail

A very biased and anti semitic source when you look at its media, but then this is what you use now as the real media sites are against your POV

How about a CBC Canada report?

Much like the internecine Sunni-Shia war that has raged for 1400 years, competing sub-sects of Islamic terrorist franchises are going to carry on that grand tradition of retrograde Islamics pressing their own version of the Islamist terrorist micro-caliphate / theocratic totalitarian dystopia.

 

[Phoenall]

So, if Barghouti is elected, if he manages to unite the Palestinian factions, should Israel take the opportunity to negotiate, will it?

Does Barghouti have a platform and what does Palestinian media say about him?

There is no IF involved as Palestinian law says that there wont even be a vote. They need 80% of the P.A. to even call for the election and they will never achieve that number. They could have a coup in the west bank that would split Palestine 3 ways and bring about a 4 state solution hamas, fatah Barghouti and Israel. Would the UN allow that to happen and have 3 Palestinian representatives with observer status ?

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

LINKS ? and from a unbiased source not your usual conspiracy sites. All it would take is for hams to set a date for a fill P.A. meeting in a neutral place and it would be a done deal.

It is too complicated for you. Answer this one question, it will help you understand.

Farah lost the elections yet it is called the PA in the West Bank. How did that happen?

Because they ignored the wishes of the people, and took control illegally. Because of the "no outside influence" rule the rest of the world jusy let them get away with it.

 

[Phoenall]

Couldn't public pressure force combined with international pressure force an election? Seems the Palestinian public is fed up with their leadership.

It is the US and Israel who are blocking elections.

How is that?

WOW, that is quite an issue. Look at the US coup against the Palestinian Authority in 2007. I have started threads about this but got no response...well except for some name calling by the usual suspects.

BTW, I think Info live is an Israeli news source.

And you would be wrong, it is from Jerusalem and could be arab muslim

This is an interesting take on the subject. Israel wants a peace process – but only if it’s doomed to fail

A very biased and anti semitic source when you look at its media, but then this is what you use now as the real media sites are against your POV

How about a CBC Canada report?

And that makes it alright and unbiased in your eyes does it. As you have been told it is just islamonazi propaganda, and deflection away from the topic.