Zone1 Man is without excuse... so why are "men" making excuses for evil? (Congress...)

[LibertyKid]

nope

opinion is not fact

and that is indeed a religious opinion

and you imagine you seek or defend Liberty?

and people wonder why I come to usmb -- for amusement

What part is not fact?

 

[surada]

Thomas Jefferson never wanted separation of church andstate to mean that the church could never interfere with or be involved w/ govt. That would be absolutely ridiculous and counter to everything the new nation stood for. He wanted the state to have no power over the churches (within reason. If a "church" condoned murder... as many do today by condoning abortion...)

There were no laws against abortion in the US until the mid 1800s.

 

[surada]

The USA was never a christian nation. The Church has never and never will have power OVER the state. That would make the state a Theocracy.

What Jefferson WANTED is irrelevant. He was not King. He was not in charge of what went out to the people for an Up or Down vote. A committee had that power, and the document had no power until the people ratified it.

He's never read Jefferson. He's playing the parrot.

 

[surada]

you're kidding, right?

The Catholic Church stopped having any influence on England as soon as the traitor-to-the-true- Faith Henry VIII became protestant. And that was LONG before the USA existed (as we know it).

In fact, England persecuted Catholics, hunted and killed priests after the traitor ditched the Faith.

That was in 1500. You still don't know anything about Jefferson.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

What part is not fact?

'Every authority, like it or not, is ordained by God,' is not fact.
It's opinion.

 

[LibertyKid]

'Every authority, like it or not, is ordained by God,' is not fact.
It's opinion.

Romans 13:1-7 New Living Translation (NLT)
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

 

[Meister]

If you want to go there: No. According to the people who ratified the document. The Framers of the US Constitution, did not include all of what people call the Founders. There is also a founding generation. The document had no power. It was put out for an 'Up or Down' vote. The document gained power through ratification. Those who ratified the document are the ones you should appeal to.


I asked if you could separate them, and do you believe in the separation of them?

I could separate them, but not in the way you would separate them.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Romans 13:1-7 New Living Translation (NLT)
Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished.

some holy book of some religion? Hardly counts as factual.

next

 

[Dante Reawakened]

I could separate them, but not in the way you would separate them.

You don't know that. I doubt you know as much as you believe you do about the ratification arguments and understandings at the time, too.

 

[LibertyKid]

some holy book of some religion? Hardly counts as factual.

next

You're arguing with someone that you may not actually need to argue with... LOL.... Next... etc.,

 

[Meister]

You don't know that. I doubt you know as much as you believe you do about the ratification arguments and understandings at the time, too.

I know one thing.....the intent was never to take religion out of schools.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

I know one thing.....the intent was never to take religion out of schools.

Was it in schools? The first public schools in the USA were in Boston. I don't believe religion was part of the educational curriculum, but maybe I'm wrong here.

I believe prayer may have been introduced later, by devout teachers.

I do know that the pledge was also introduced later "The Pledge of Allegiance was written in August 1892 by the socialist minister Francis Bellamy (1855-1931). It was originally published in The Youth's Companion on September 8, 1892. Bellamy had hoped that the pledge would be used by citizens in any country."

most of the shit the cultural right fightsover is filled with liees, innuendo and nonsense. Take that War on Christmas too (Bil O'Reilly officially called it over and won).

 

[Dante Reawakened]

I know one thing.....the intent was never to take religion out of schools.

It was not an issue at the time. And many of the leaders of the founding generation were religious. Most educated men (that era), were. Early drafts of state constitutions had some religious stuff that got taken out. The leaders then were not fighting some war to keep the USA a Christian nation. Many were too busy fighting each other over petty little shit in churches.