Man Charged With Murder

[Cecilie1200]

Pepper spray doesn't always stop a human, so it may not stop a vicious dog, either. You just can't be sure.
The owner should have taken more care to keep his dogs locked up, because he didn't, a woman is dead.

The owner shouldn't have had vicious, unstable dogs, because even if you try to keep your pets restrained, shit happens. Vicious animals are just a lawsuit waiting to happen.

I make a great deal of effort to keep my dog on my property, and there are still random occasions when he manages to get out. Fortunately, I own a dog who loves every living creature on the planet, and wouldn't even understand the concept of biting a person.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The man didn't murder anyone. Charge him with not keeping his dogs locked up, or something.

and because he didn't keep his dogs locked up a woman was murdered by them. he the derelict owner should do prison time for that murder.

Well, technically he did keep his dogs locked up - but the fence was low so the dogs were able to jump over it.

Which is the same as not keeping the dogs locked up. There's a reason why the Humane Society checks the height of your yard fence before allowing you to adopt a dog.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, technically he did keep his dogs locked up - but the fence was low so the dogs were able to jump over it.

Technically, that is not keeping his dogs confined. So, no, they are not 'locked up.'

Then how high should a fence be to keep a dog inside?

However high it needs to be to keep the dog from jumping over it.

I used to have a Golden Retriever who could clear the 6 1/2-foot concrete wall in my backyard and barely touch the top as she went over. I was constantly having to chase that damn dog down and bring her back. I was informed by the authorities that I either needed to extend the top of the wall so that it was too high for her, or find some other way to keep her from escaping. I ended up having to walk that dog on a leash in my own backyard while she did her business. (It's illegal to chain dogs up outside in Tucson.)

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, I had my own pitbull attack today. : (

Was walking my dogs, all five of them, and was approaching a park. Saw people had dogs off-leash, including a pitbull, so I pulled out my pepper spray and I stopped to see what they would do. They grabbed their dogs and I continued on. One of the guys, who owned the pitbull came running out to the street to see my dobermans while the other guy held on to the pitbull. He petted my dogs for a bit and then we continued on.

Just then a car was passing by so I was distracted with keeping my dogs off to the side of the road. Out of the corner of my eye I saw that ******* pitbull running at us. For some reason they let go of the pitbull. I had put my pepper spray away because they appeared to be controlling their dog. It all happened so fast, I didn't get my pepper spray back out in time.

The pitbull grabbed my minpin mix by the back of the neck and literally shook her. I was screaming and started kicking the pitbull as hard as I could. The man came along (he didn't seem to be hurrying all that much) and grabbed his dog. He said something like "Pebbles! What's gotten into you?" As if he was shocked that the dog behaved that way.

I screamed at him, you're not going to pay my vet bill are you, you son of a *****. I was cussing and screaming all the way down the street. Cynthia was injured, too. At first I didn't think so, but she has a bite and will have to go in for stitches tomorrow.

Somebody told me where the guy lives so I went back down there and got his house number and called Animal Control and left a message as to what happened. I will see what they say when they call me back tomorrow. Which they had better do. We have a leash law in this town, and people need to obey it, especially people with vicious ******* mindless dogs like that.

I let Cynthia down. From now on whenever there are dogs within my sight I will have the pepper spray out, and I will spray every dog that comes near us, friendly or not. I let Cynthia down, but I won't do it again.

Someone in the neighborhood is going to shoot that ******* pitbull, and I won't be sorry to hear it. Hope they shoot it before it gets a kid.

When you get the vet bill, present it to the guy. If he refuses to pay, take him to court and sue him. That way, he can pay the vet bill AND court costs.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Well, technically he did keep his dogs locked up - but the fence was low so the dogs were able to jump over it.

I would be very interested to know the codes for fencing in his area. I used to live where you could not have a fence over 4 feet high. My neighbors got rid of their beautiful, sweet lab because she kept hopping that fence and because they could not build one high enough to keep her in, they gave her away to someone who could.

Anyway, this man is not guilty of murder. Manslaughter perhaps, but not murder. It frightens me how little people, including DA's apparently, understand the law.

Well, judging by the quote of the law posted earlier by someone, it appears the DA DOES know the law, and is deliberately planning to throw the book at this guy as hard as possible as a message to other dog owners.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Then how high should a fence be to keep a dog inside?

For my dobermans I was advised six feet. So I put up a six-foot fence. I don't want to take any chances they get out, not because I think they would hurt anybody, but because I'd be worried that someone would hurt them, thinking that they were dangerous. Or they'd get hit by a car. Whatever it takes to keep them safe is what I do.

But here is the problem - in some places you wouldn't be allowed to have a fence that high. You have to ask the council for their guidelines.
So if the council said that your fence couldn't be any higher than say, three feet, you would find it impossible to keep a dog, because the dog wouldn't be deemed as being properly fenced in.

I'm trying to picture someplace that doesn't allow you to have a fence on your backyard over 3-4 feet, and I'm failing. Front yard, sure, because it blocks views, but backyards aren't SUPPOSED to have views of the yards around them, and they don't generally have streets near them with driver visibility issues.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How do you determine this woman was killed for sport? She was killed by a pack of dogs who were not properly fenced in. It is completely different to actually hunting an animal with the intention of killing it.

The dogs killed her for "sport". They weren't starving, they have been raised this way. The alligator wasn't killing anyone at that time but they certainly have the ability to do so. Crocs kill more people worldwide than any other animal. Alligators don't kill people anywhere near as often but THEY DO kill people.

Dogs don't develop and pursue sporting activities.

They killed her because they're big dogs, and they were out of control. And they are terriers, and terriers have a strong prey drive.

True. Even Scottish Terriers - cute, dumpy, goofy little things that they are - can exert 200 lbs of pressure with their bite, and literally do not perceive any sort of size distinction when their predator instinct is aroused.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Then how high should a fence be to keep a dog inside?

LOL It depends on the dog.

Yeah, see? Lets say you have a big dog and you move into a new neighbourhood, the fence is four feet high but it needs to be higher because you have a bigger dog, but council regulations say you can't have a higher fence, and you have to either move house again, or get rid of the dog.

That does happen, you know. Councils can be retarded.

Um, why would you not have seen the fence and checked out the regulations BEFORE moving? Who the hell buys a house to live in sight-unseen?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Yes, that is true - but lets play with this - if another dog runs up to the Pit and starts snapping at it, and the Pit snaps back, biting the other dog, is the owner at fault because he/she didn't keep the Pit under control, and should the Pit be deemed a dangerous dog and destroyed?

in that case

it sounds like the other dog owner is at fault

Aah, but only you have the vicious dog, the other dog is a little poodle, say. You cannot destroy a poodle for being aggressive, can you?

Yes, you can. You think Animal Control isn't well aware that small animals can be vicious, aggressive, and dangerous?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Off topic, but relevant to the discussion on dangerous dogs:

Monash dog fight: Kerser's fate sealed | Monash Weekly

Council THINK the dog is a Pit Bull. They decide this based on the way the dog looks. Owner doesn't agree, council doesn't care. Dog will be destroyed in a few days.

Would someone - like KG - like to have a look at the photo and see if they know what breed of dog this may be?

It's an American Staffordshire Terrier, according to the caption under the picture. Whether or not that is the same as an American Pit Bull Terrier tends to depend on who you talk to. As I understand it, the American Kennel Club recognizes them as two different breeds, but the UKC considers them the same. What is certain is that they come from the same breeding line and are virtually indistinguishable to anyone who isn't a professional breeder or dog show fanatic.

I have no idea if that helps or not.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Bullshit. There are VERY few dogs that cannot be rehabilitated. I have watched pitbulls taken from fighting operations, dogs that were mayhem on four legs, and turn into wonderful, trustworthy companions. Your mindset is archaic, dog psychology has taken enormous steps that disprove your very flawed premise.

Thanks for saying it, DarkLion. "Bullshit" was the first word that came to my mind also.

If I had the power, I'd sterilize every single pit bull and pit bull mix on the face of the Earth so they could no longer reproduce and we would not have to deal with them in the future. They are a scourge. Goes for alligators too.

You don't know much of anything about dogs, do you?

 

[Cecilie1200]

What about the owner of the Pit Bull who lashed out as a result of being intimidated by the poodle?

every dog has a right to defend it self

I believe that - but many people don't believe a Pit Bull has that right, simply because its a Pit Bull.

American Staffordshire terrier. There's really very little difference I'm afraid.

The dog still hasn't attacked anyone, and it is being killed because of the way it looks, which is wrong, IMO.

When it comes to dog attacks, especially at places like dog parks, people blame the dog that attacks first. This is often very mistaken. Rarely does a dog attack another dog without reason, unless it's a red-zone case of dog-aggression, in which case such a dog should not be at a dog park. But 9 times out of 10, the dog being attacked instigated it.

Many owners are completely unaware of the signals their "little angel" sends to other dogs. It's amazing how few owners understand and interpret dominating posture and behavior in their own dogs. Jumping up on you when you come home from work, can be a dominant behavior. As can "asking" to be petted. Many subtle dominant behavior are overlooked, especially in small dogs, because they are "cute"

However, when left uncorrected these behaviors can get the dog in trouble in social settings with other dogs.

I ******* HATE little dogs. ******* poodles and chihuahuas are the worst. They yap and snarl, and come up to your bigger dog and snap around their feet, and if your bigger dog snaps back, then your dog is in strife!
Instead of putting a muzzle on a Pit Bull, put a muzzle on the little shit stirring toy poodles that cause the problem in the first place!

Wayyyy back in the mists of time, during my misspent youth, I trained to be a pet groomer. It was never the big dogs I felt the need to muzzle so that I could work on them. It was the cocker spaniels. Right about then, our city was experiencing a spate of spaniel fanaticism. EVERYONE had to have one, and backyard breeders were churning them out with little thought for brains, personality, or character. As long as they were pretty. They were even inbreeding brothers and sisters to produce puppies. The result was a large population of stupid, nasty dogs, and God help the hapless groomer who pulled on a knot in their copious fur (because, of course, EVERYONE had to have their dog groomed with the long, full "skirt" that one sees on cockers in dog shows). The little fuckers would whip around and take a chunk out of your arm before you knew it.

I'm still suspicious of strange cocker spaniels to this day.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Most Pit Bulls are fine - little dogs are often pains in the arses, I put it down to nature. Maybe they go up to the bigger dog to try and tell it that they are not afraid?

It's mostly because viscous behavior in little dogs has been deemed "cute" by most owners, or at least excusable. As such it has not been bred out like it has in larger dogs, who cannot get away with such behavior because they can do so much more damage.

I did my work experience at a boarding kennel many years ago. One of my tasks was to let out the dogs into the back garden while I cleaned out their cages. The big dogs were fine - big teddy bears. The little dogs, one in particular, a nasty little chihuahua, would snarl and snap every time I tried to pull open the gate. I couldn't get within three feet of the cage without it snapping and trying to bite me through the wire of the cage.
That dog stayed in its cage. The cage wasn't cleaned at all, because I didn't trust that little dog not to bite me.
I spoke to the staff about it, they'd had problems with it as well.

My aunt had a Chihuahua. She called her "Cricket". Everyone else called her "Jaws". Little ******'s favorite game was to hide under the couch and then dart out and attack people's ankles when they walked by, and believe me, she was NOT biting for play. She did that to me once, and I reflexively kicked her across the room. My mom housesat for my aunt once, and made the mistake of rolling over in her sleep. "Jaws" had jumped up on the bed and laid down behind her, and took a chunk out of her back.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Everyone here has to get their animals fixed unless they are a registered breeder.
If I had a dog - other than the ones I already have - I'd allow it to breed once before getting it fixed.

I am against such legislation. I only support spay/neuter if it's for the health of the dog, anyone responsible can prevent unwanted litters without mutilating their pets. It should only be done for the health of the animal. I'd refuse.

Sorry, but I don't consider spaying/neutering to be "mutilation" any more than I considered it mutilation when I had a tubal ligation.

Like it or not, spayed/neutered animals live longer, in addition to being more pleasant pets to have around.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I have to say...when people tell me they won't neuter their male dog, I raise my eyebrows. And it often seems to be people with pitbulls and rottweillers who say it. What's up with that?

Compensating, same as guys who own really big, noisy trucks.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Technically, that is not keeping his dogs confined. So, no, they are not 'locked up.'

Then how high should a fence be to keep a dog inside?

However high it needs to be to keep the dog from jumping over it.

I used to have a Golden Retriever who could clear the 6 1/2-foot concrete wall in my backyard and barely touch the top as she went over. I was constantly having to chase that damn dog down and bring her back. I was informed by the authorities that I either needed to extend the top of the wall so that it was too high for her, or find some other way to keep her from escaping. I ended up having to walk that dog on a leash in my own backyard while she did her business. (It's illegal to chain dogs up outside in Tucson.)

we have a chow

she would dig under the wood fence all the time

we tried everything to get her to stop it

we put the fence in to be nice to her --LOL

someone one day said maybe she does this because she is snoopy

and cant see what is happening

( you could always see her trying to peek through he cracks)

so we tore down the wood fence and put in a chain linked fence

and the problem went away

now after all of that

she would rather be inside

--LOL

 

[Cecilie1200]

Even if my dog DOES manage to get out, he just wanders down to the corner, led by the smells left by dogs being walked through the neighborhood, and then gets bored and lonely and comes wandering back, looking for his people. My biggest worries with him are getting hurt or getting stolen because he's so beautiful.

 

[Noomi]

Off topic, but relevant to the discussion on dangerous dogs:

Monash dog fight: Kerser's fate sealed | Monash Weekly

Council THINK the dog is a Pit Bull. They decide this based on the way the dog looks. Owner doesn't agree, council doesn't care. Dog will be destroyed in a few days.

Would someone - like KG - like to have a look at the photo and see if they know what breed of dog this may be?

It's an American Staffordshire Terrier, according to the caption under the picture. Whether or not that is the same as an American Pit Bull Terrier tends to depend on who you talk to. As I understand it, the American Kennel Club recognizes them as two different breeds, but the UKC considers them the same. What is certain is that they come from the same breeding line and are virtually indistinguishable to anyone who isn't a professional breeder or dog show fanatic.

I have no idea if that helps or not.

The owner THINKS it might be a Staffie, they are not sure what breed of dog it is.

 

[TW]

Did anyone catch that video on the woman who sicced her pitbulls on the TV reporter?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Even if my dog DOES manage to get out, he just wanders down to the corner, led by the smells left by dogs being walked through the neighborhood, and then gets bored and lonely and comes wandering back, looking for his people. My biggest worries with him are getting hurt or getting stolen because he's so beautiful.

ours if she gets out has some friends she checks in on

if they can not catch her she will travel about

and has been known to take liberty with

other peoples trash

--LOL