Louis CK being unfairly blacklisted

[MordechaiGoodbud]

I can't understand what he did wrong.

He asked women's permission to masturbate in front of them.

Some said yes. (Others declined and left the room.)

When permission is given, that is called consensual sex. It's not his fault, if some women were naïve enough to agree to participate in something they felt uncomfortable with.

If he would have come out as gay, all the people in show business would be falling over themselves congratulating him. But for some reason, masturbating in front of a woman is an unforgiveable sin, even if you have their permission. How ridiculous. Now, he is losing all his business deals.

I've never been a fan of Louis CK, and was never impressed with his act. But this seems unfair to me. They are equating him with rapists, like Weinstein.

 

[aaronleland]

He did it in a work environment in front of young women he had power and influence over. He abused that power and influence.

 

[emilynghiem]

I can't understand what he did wrong.

He asked women's permission to masturbate in front of them.

Some said yes. (Others declined and left the room.)

When permission is given, that is called consensual sex. It's not his fault, if some women were naïve enough to agree to participate in something they felt uncomfortable with.

If he would have come out as gay, all the people in show business would be falling over themselves congratulating him. But for some reason, masturbating in front of a woman is an unforgiveable sin, even if you have their permission. How ridiculous. Now, he is losing all his business deals.

I've never been a fan of Louis CK, and was never impressed with his act. But this seems unfair to me. They are equating him with rapists, like Weinstein.

Dear MordechaiGoodbud
I agree with you that this should not be treated with the same severity as Weinstein's assaults and rapes,
but aaronleland is right in how it is still wrongful harassment and coercion/abuse because of the power involved.

If you read the text of Louis CK apology, he explains this very clearly, that it is NOT okay to ASK this in that situation:
Louis C.K. Responds to Accusations: ‘These Stories Are True’

I also believe he deserves a fair chance because he fully acknowledged the wrong done and expresses genuine commitment to resolving these issues and damages resulting. So that's different from Cosby and Weinstein still fighting to deny wrongdoing and avoid taking full responsibility for consequences.

As for the gray area between someone being an official employer of someone else, vs. just being a position of possibly referring someone for work, that is legally questionable as not being established on equal legal grounds. I believe he shows sincere conscience in treating this equally as a formal employment relationship, though legally it could be torn apart by lawyers if they really wanted an out. That wouldn't help his relations or career, so I think he was wiser to chalk it up as equally as coercive and harassing as if he was a formal employer, even if some of the complainants didn't formally work for him as their boss.

See text copied below

These stories are true. At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament for them. The power I had over these women is that they admired me. And I wielded that power irresponsibly. I have been remorseful of my actions. And I’ve tried to learn from them. And run from them. Now I’m aware of the extent of the impact of my actions. I learned yesterday the extent to which I left these women who admired me feeling badly about themselves and cautious around other men who would never have put them in that position. I also took advantage of the fact that I was widely admired in my and their community, which disabled them from sharing their story and brought hardship to them when they tried because people who look up to me didn’t want to hear it. I didn’t think that I was doing any of that because my position allowed me not to think about it. There is nothing about this that I forgive myself for. And I have to reconcile it with who I am. Which is nothing compared to the task I left them with. I wish I had reacted to their admiration of me by being a good example to them as a man and given them some guidance as a comedian, including because I admired their work.

The hardest regret to live with is what you’ve done to hurt someone else. And I can hardly wrap my head around the scope of hurt I brought on them. I’d be remiss to exclude the hurt that I’ve brought on people who I work with and have worked with who’s professional and personal lives have been impacted by all of this, including projects currently in production: the cast and crew of Better Things, Baskets, The Cops, One Mississippi, and I Love You, Daddy. I deeply regret that this has brought negative attention to my manager Dave Becky who only tried to mediate a situation that I caused. I’ve brought anguish and hardship to the people at FX who have given me so much The Orchard who took a chance on my movie. and every other entity that has bet on me through the years. I’ve brought pain to my family, my friends, my children and their mother.

I have spent my long and lucky career talking and saying anything I want. I will now step back and take a long time to listen. Thank you for reading.

I have been in a situation where someone who planned to refer me for work tried to play up our relationship as sexual instead of focusing on the professional goals or the community nonprofit projects I was asking help for. Since this man was not formally my boss, it's not quite the same weight as sexual harassment at the workplace.

But the verbal and psychological abuse of being bullied and accused of flirting, lying (and having "mental health issues" because I claimed later that he was wrong in trying to push having sex or a baby with him when it wasn't appropriate for our relationship that is not sexual), THAT part was abusive regardless what our relationship is or not.

In this case, because his advances and the "consent he obtained" were indirectly coerced because of the power involved, that's what he is saying was abuse of power. It's not the same legally as when you are formally employed, but it's a form of psychological abuse and coercion.

I believe Louis CK deserves more credit for being open, acknowledging and apologizing for this abuse, and sets a better example for others to follow. I believe we should reward and not punish people like him for his honesty in admitting and correcting mistakes in judgment, so that more people are encouraged to come out and resolve these issues whenever they occur, instead of hiding behind legal excuses to deny wrongdoing and responsibility for corrections or restitution owed for the harm and damages resulting.

 

[Michelle420]

I can't understand what he did wrong.

He asked women's permission to masturbate in front of them.

Some said yes. (Others declined and left the room.)

When permission is given, that is called consensual sex. It's not his fault, if some women were naïve enough to agree to participate in something they felt uncomfortable with.

If he would have come out as gay, all the people in show business would be falling over themselves congratulating him. But for some reason, masturbating in front of a woman is an unforgiveable sin, even if you have their permission. How ridiculous. Now, he is losing all his business deals.

I've never been a fan of Louis CK, and was never impressed with his act. But this seems unfair to me. They are equating him with rapists, like Weinstein.

Even Louis knows what he did wrong and his sincere acknowledgment of that behavior was refreshing. I don't think he should be blacklisted. He handled his past behavior in the present tense with great honesty and accountability and regret.

 

[JoeMoma]

Video of a master baiter:

 

[aaronleland]

Louis will be fine. Not only did he handle his apology well, but let's be honest. What he did was creepy, but it really wasn't that bad. He's a brilliant guy. He'll likely disappear for a little while and come back just as strong as before. I'd bet money that this incident even becomes a punch line in his next stand up set.