Libs try to infiltrate tea party to feed liberal media

[teapartysamurai]

No, you are wrong. The parties want you to support them. They don't care which one of them wins, because they both win regardless of which man sits in the Oval Office.

Whether McCain won in '08 or Obama won we were bound to be screwed one way or another. As long as people continue to support these corrupt parties we are screwed.

Immie

Would McCain have brought Sheik Mohammed to New York and read him his Miranda rights?

Would McCan have had this healthcare attrocity (on which HE voted no)

You are dead wrong. McCain was far from perfect, but he would have been far better than Obama.

Look Neither Ford or Nixon were perfect presidents either. But compare their administrations to Carter. Nixon was corrupt as hell, but he didn't do a 10th of the damage to this country that Carter did, (and for which we are still paying in Iran).

No, McCain would have furthered the Patriot Act and Wiretapping, "for the good of America".

Don't ask me which would be worse the expansion of the Patriot Act or Obama's Health Care Reform. I simply don't know which would be worse.

Immie

Wire tapping on terrorists is the same as death panels?

I'm sorry like I said, you are playing the "they all do it game." This is a game of equivalence and they are NOT equivalent.

Not even close.

 

[Immanuel]

Then don't complain when the death panels are true, because that's the attitude that will bring them about.

and BTW, that's the attitude Obama wants you to have. He doesn't want you to fight back. He wants you to become discouraged, give up and not care who is in power.

That's a big mistake.

Let me just put it this way: If it wasn't Obama's "death panels" then it would have been McCain's furtherance of the Patriot Act (and yes, I know Obama hasn't ended that despicable act). McCain would have made things worse in that area. So, whether or not it was McCain or Obama things were not going to improve in this nation.

So, why should I support McCain over Obama? Why should I support either one of them?

Immie

A) That's a joke. McCain was going on about the Patriot Act and the need to get rid of Torture, blah blah blah. Increase the Patriot Act? LOL

B). Show me one right anyone lost from the Patriot Act? People went on and on about the Patriot Act, but I asked people for EIGHT YEARS to give me one right they lost, and they NEVER could answer that one. They would just claim there were anecdotals of this person or that person, which means, BS.

C) Obama's plan WILL TAKE AWAY YOUR RIGHTS. It will put all that in the hands of government and you won't be able to decide whether you live or die.

Don't believe me, take a look at Canada, England, Cuba, on and on. That's the model Obama is following, and if you don't believe that, look at the part of the bill that follows the Cuban model for what Doctors have to do after leaving medical school. Its all in the bill.

You are playing the "they all do it game." But they don't all do it. The Patriot Act was to make it easier so we would not have the road blocks in our way that kept us from preventing 9/11.

Obama care has no claim to our national interest. Or protecting this country. It's an ATTACK on this country.

There is no way to argue they are the same.

The Patriot Act was an affront to freedom loving individuals everywhere. Whether you are Muslim or not the Patriot Act opened up the door to you being accused of being an enemy of the state and arrested and held without cause. In that manner, it too was an attack on this country.

Health Care Reform is an affront to our freedoms as well.

And yes, they all do it! Both parties are guilty of the same kind of shit. The only difference is which right are they going to take first. Their goals are to take all of your rights, Which ones go first is the only difference between the parties.

You can support the Republican Party if you wish. I refuse to do so.

When one party starts showing me that they want to be fiscally and socially responsible then I will start paying attention to them. Until then... screw them both. When they start showing me that they do more than paying lip service to "smaller government", I might actually consider voting for one of these parties.

In the meantime, they just keep lying to you and you keep soaking in the promises of Washington elites who campaign with an (R) after their names.

Immie

 

[Immanuel]

Would McCain have brought Sheik Mohammed to New York and read him his Miranda rights?

Would McCan have had this healthcare attrocity (on which HE voted no)

You are dead wrong. McCain was far from perfect, but he would have been far better than Obama.

Look Neither Ford or Nixon were perfect presidents either. But compare their administrations to Carter. Nixon was corrupt as hell, but he didn't do a 10th of the damage to this country that Carter did, (and for which we are still paying in Iran).

No, McCain would have furthered the Patriot Act and Wiretapping, "for the good of America".

Don't ask me which would be worse the expansion of the Patriot Act or Obama's Health Care Reform. I simply don't know which would be worse.

Immie

Wire tapping on terrorists is the same as death panels?

I'm sorry like I said, you are playing the "they all do it game." This is a game of equivalence and they are NOT equivalent.

Not even close.

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

 

[teapartysamurai]

No, McCain would have furthered the Patriot Act and Wiretapping, "for the good of America".

Don't ask me which would be worse the expansion of the Patriot Act or Obama's Health Care Reform. I simply don't know which would be worse.

Immie

Wire tapping on terrorists is the same as death panels?

I'm sorry like I said, you are playing the "they all do it game." This is a game of equivalence and they are NOT equivalent.

Not even close.

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

 

[Immanuel]

Wire tapping on terrorists is the same as death panels?

I'm sorry like I said, you are playing the "they all do it game." This is a game of equivalence and they are NOT equivalent.

Not even close.

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

How about the Democratic Party supporter that has a brother in the Middle East, say working on a project in Iraq. They tap his phone and then decide that he is a problem and they either arrest him, or maybe during the wiretapping they discover that he has a mistress on the side... Fox News would love this story... wouldn't it? No one has to know that they got their information from an unwarranted wiretap.

Immie

 

[oreo]

FOXNews.com - Tea Party Opponents Hope to Infiltrate Party, Dismantle It

I went to my tea party in C. Spgs.CO today. We had a little over 2000 tea partiers there -and our very minut--tea party crashers--came from the high school across the street--which consisted of about 5 very young teenagers that really had no idea what they were doing--LOL. They left a little embarrassed.

Anyway--the teapartycrasher.org--is an utter failure. In fact--I just tried to get back to their web-site and they have already closed it down.

 

[teapartysamurai]

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

How about the Democratic Party supporter that has a brother in the Middle East, say working on a project in Iraq. They tap his phone and then decide that he is a problem and they either arrest him, or maybe during the wiretapping they discover that he has a mistress on the side... Fox News would love this story... wouldn't it? No one has to know that they got their information from an unwarranted wiretap.

Immie

That's a hypothetical. I don't debate hypotheticals, because they aren't based in reality nor is their any evidence for them.

 

[drsmith1072]

The video you posted was filmed by left wingers to discredit the right. What part of that is hard for you to grasp?

To claim that as 'evidence' is just fucking laughable. Truly.

The Whore of Republican states that while she posts "facts" from links that are GOP blogs.

Rich.

As opposed to YOU never posting ANY facts, just ranting?

WOW that sounds an awful lot like YOU and the fact that you avoided my responses to your spin as I called you out for your lack of honesty is further proof of your dishonesty and lack of integrity.

What's the matter? You can't handle the truth?? And here I thought you wanted an honest debate and yet once again you avoid one so you can attack other posters personally.

How typical.

 

[drsmith1072]

Sure! There are plenty of RINOs like Voinivich, McCain, and Snowe.

Interesting how the GOP eats its own

McCain was the best candidate the GOP had to run in 2008 and is still superior to anyone they have in 2012. Both Snowe and Voinivich represent the constituency where they were elected. If they don't meet the desires of red State Republicans...thats too bad

Best candidate? In who's opinion?

I for one would have voted for Obama over McCain if I had no other choices. I have disliked him since... hell, I can't remember ever having liked him. I respect the fact that he served his country, but I would never vote for him. Not in a million years.

Immie

In whose opinion?? uh that would be the opinion of the majority of republicans who voted in the 2008 primaries in order to make him the party's nominee.

You may not like him but he is who the party chose to represent them as who they thought was the best candidate.

 

[drsmith1072]

You can ask, but you have no right to make them leave and even if you do ask, if you don't take a public stand against them, then whatever they say and do before you do ask them to leave affects your movement.

Without taking a public stand against them, then and there, you are letting their actions speak for you. To go along with that, as long as you let them get away with it, they will be known as part of your group. If you don't call them out publicly then they will forever be known as part of you.

Immie

And asking them to leave is NOT taking a public stand?????

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

You ask them to leave. Who knows about it but you and the creep with the racist sign? No one.

You (the leaders of the movement) get up on stage and make a public announcement that they are not welcomed at the event gets public notice.

The leaders of the movement go on nationwide tv and publicly state that those people in no way represent the views of the movement. That gets public notice.

Casually asking them to leave does nothing for your cause nor does beating the shit out of them as Pale Rider indicated would be his solution.

Immie

WOW i actually agree with immie. If the leaders of the movement (whoever they are) speak out against these people when they have the mic then there would be nothing for lefties to emulate or exaggerate IF they do infultrate.

I would like to say again that I believe trying to infultrate the party events is WRONG and should not be done. I believe as I always have that dissent is patriotic and it's nice to see so many righties have come around to that way of thinking.
I just hope they have the integrity to continue believing this when a republican is elected president again and they don't go back to how they were under W when any dissenters were called un-American and unpatriotic surrendermonkeys.

 

[drsmith1072]

Wire tapping on terrorists is the same as death panels?

I'm sorry like I said, you are playing the "they all do it game." This is a game of equivalence and they are NOT equivalent.

Not even close.

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

So are they innocent until proven guilty or are they guilty until proven innocent??

You seem to have things backwards.

Oh and just have to say, love the fearmongering and "24" rhetoric to justify violating someone's rights. I am sure jack bauer would be proud.

 

[teapartysamurai]

The Whore of Republican states that while she posts "facts" from links that are GOP blogs.

Rich.

As opposed to YOU never posting ANY facts, just ranting?

WOW that sounds an awful lot like YOU and the fact that you avoided my responses to your spin as I called you out for your lack of honesty is further proof of your dishonesty and lack of integrity.

What's the matter? You can't handle the truth?? And here I thought you wanted an honest debate and yet once again you avoid one so you can attack other posters personally.

How typical.

A) I was talking to ABikernitwit about ranting and not posting any evidence, not you.

B) The only two bits of "evidence" liberals posted in this thread are photos I already proved are bogus and a Youtube video that showed no evidence other than an infiltrator holding up a sign for a cameraman, which they obviousy arranged beforehand.

That's not evidence. It's more leftwing fraud.

 

[teapartysamurai]

It is not the wiretapping of terrorists I have a problem with. It is wiretapping my phones because I happen to have contacts in the Middle East. I don't, but you get the drift.

It is un-American.

My problem is not the wiretapping of terrorists. It is the intrusion of the government on private citizens lives without so much as a smidge of evidence against them. Is it being done today on non-Muslim Americans? Probably. In fact, it has more than likely been going on for a hell of a long time.

That doesn't make me feel any better that it was a Republican President that pushed for this.

Immie

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

So are they innocent until proven guilty or are they guilty until proven innocent??

You seem to have things backwards.

Oh and just have to say, love the fearmongering and "24" rhetoric to justify violating someone's rights. I am sure jack bauer would be proud.

I don't understand the ignorance we have about national security.

Terrorists are NOT American citizens. They do not have a right to our court system, our laws, or our protections.

The Patriot Act was designed to protect American Citizens from terrorists who hide behind our laws to kill innocent American Citizens as they did on 9/11.

Liberals rant on and on about what could happen, but they never can bring up actual evidence of any American citizens hurt other than those who obviously were terrorists themselves like Jose Padilla.

The fact that we were terrorist attack free for eight years after 9/11 speaks to the efficiency of the Patriot Act.

Is the Patriot Act perfect? No. NOTHING IS. That's the problem with liberalism. If it isn't "perfect" as they ascribe perfection, then it must be done away with, in order for them to have their "social justice."

Social justice that is, that never works as evidenced by the walls the Clinton admin's Jamie Gorelick put between intelligence agencies that led to 9/11.

Since the Patriot Act has been relaxed in the Obama admin we already had terrorism in the guise of the Fort Hood shooter, and other terrorist acts.

It is no misconception that the Patriot Act helped keep this country safe, nor is it misconception that we dismantle those protections at our peril.

 

[teapartysamurai]

FOXNews.com - Tea Party Opponents Hope to Infiltrate Party, Dismantle It

I went to my tea party in C. Spgs.CO today. We had a little over 2000 tea partiers there -and our very minut--tea party crashers--came from the high school across the street--which consisted of about 5 very young teenagers that really had no idea what they were doing--LOL. They left a little embarrassed.

Anyway--the teapartycrasher.org--is an utter failure. In fact--I just tried to get back to their web-site and they have already closed it down.

That's kind of funny. I wouldn't have been too hard on the kids. They are naive and I'm sure they were led into it by their brain washing teachers.

Poor kids!

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

How about the Democratic Party supporter that has a brother in the Middle East, say working on a project in Iraq. They tap his phone and then decide that he is a problem and they either arrest him, or maybe during the wiretapping they discover that he has a mistress on the side... Fox News would love this story... wouldn't it? No one has to know that they got their information from an unwarranted wiretap.

Immie

That's a hypothetical. I don't debate hypotheticals, because they aren't based in reality nor is their any evidence for them.

FAIL. Your logic is such that you cannot complain about Obamacare because it is still hypothetical on what will happen. Sheesh, you are ignorant.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

So are they innocent until proven guilty or are they guilty until proven innocent??

You seem to have things backwards.

Oh and just have to say, love the fearmongering and "24" rhetoric to justify violating someone's rights. I am sure jack bauer would be proud.

I don't understand the ignorance we have about national security.

Terrorists are NOT American citizens. They do not have a right to our court system, our laws, or our protections.

The Patriot Act was designed to protect American Citizens from terrorists who hide behind our laws to kill innocent American Citizens as they did on 9/11.

Liberals rant on and on about what could happen, but they never can bring up actual evidence of any American citizens hurt other than those who obviously were terrorists themselves like Jose Padilla.

The fact that we were terrorist attack free for eight years after 9/11 speaks to the efficiency of the Patriot Act.

Is the Patriot Act perfect? No. NOTHING IS. That's the problem with liberalism. If it isn't "perfect" as they ascribe perfection, then it must be done away with, in order for them to have their "social justice."

Social justice that is, that never works as evidenced by the walls the Clinton admin's Jamie Gorelick put between intelligence agencies that led to 9/11.

Since the Patriot Act has been relaxed in the Obama admin we already had terrorism in the guise of the Fort Hood shooter, and other terrorist acts.

It is no misconception that the Patriot Act helped keep this country safe, nor is it misconception that we dismantle those protections at our peril.

You and your thinking is so why the Dems are going to kick our asses this election cycle.

My Dem friends are cheering the Tea Party on to more and more excessive demonstrations of nonsense, and you all keep falling for it.

 

[CMike]

So are they innocent until proven guilty or are they guilty until proven innocent??

You seem to have things backwards.

Oh and just have to say, love the fearmongering and "24" rhetoric to justify violating someone's rights. I am sure jack bauer would be proud.

I don't understand the ignorance we have about national security.

Terrorists are NOT American citizens. They do not have a right to our court system, our laws, or our protections.

The Patriot Act was designed to protect American Citizens from terrorists who hide behind our laws to kill innocent American Citizens as they did on 9/11.

Liberals rant on and on about what could happen, but they never can bring up actual evidence of any American citizens hurt other than those who obviously were terrorists themselves like Jose Padilla.

The fact that we were terrorist attack free for eight years after 9/11 speaks to the efficiency of the Patriot Act.

Is the Patriot Act perfect? No. NOTHING IS. That's the problem with liberalism. If it isn't "perfect" as they ascribe perfection, then it must be done away with, in order for them to have their "social justice."

Social justice that is, that never works as evidenced by the walls the Clinton admin's Jamie Gorelick put between intelligence agencies that led to 9/11.

Since the Patriot Act has been relaxed in the Obama admin we already had terrorism in the guise of the Fort Hood shooter, and other terrorist acts.

It is no misconception that the Patriot Act helped keep this country safe, nor is it misconception that we dismantle those protections at our peril.

You and your thinking is so why the Dems are going to kick our asses this election cycle.

My Dem friends are cheering the Tea Party on to more and more excessive demonstrations of nonsense, and you all keep falling for it.

I bet they are.

I am sure the Tea Party will be happy to oblige in telling you liberal dems the feelings of Americans.

 

[drsmith1072]

As opposed to YOU never posting ANY facts, just ranting?

WOW that sounds an awful lot like YOU and the fact that you avoided my responses to your spin as I called you out for your lack of honesty is further proof of your dishonesty and lack of integrity.

What's the matter? You can't handle the truth?? And here I thought you wanted an honest debate and yet once again you avoid one so you can attack other posters personally.

How typical.

A) I was talking to ABikernitwit about ranting and not posting any evidence, not you.

B) The only two bits of "evidence" liberals posted in this thread are photos I already proved are bogus and a Youtube video that showed no evidence other than an infiltrator holding up a sign for a cameraman, which they obviousy arranged beforehand.

That's not evidence. It's more leftwing fraud.

A) doesn't matter WHO you think you were talking about you seem to be describing YOU. and the claim that you make in B is a perfect example of you being less than honest.

B) and NO you didn't prove (look up the word please) all of the photos were fake you showed that one was older claiming it was actualyl a liberal, which is unknown, and then claimed that all were fakes because the one was. Then you CLAIM with no proof to support that claim that the guy with the swastika on his sign who was STANDING ON THE STAGE WITH THE SIGN IN VIEW was a plant. That is NOT honest and it is NOT proof. That is an ASSUMPTION on your part.

You really need to look up the word "PROOF" so you can begin to understand that repetition of your OPINIONS doesn't prove anything.

BTW I am still waiting on you prove that the nutjubs that have appeared at tea parties since their mass parties began were plants. I keep hearing that claim and similar but have seen no evidence to support it.

 

[drsmith1072]

Let's be realistic.

The Constitution is not a suicide pact.

You don't think they read mail in WWII or anything like that. They did. Busted a couple sabateur rings of Germans who had infiltrated into the country, that way.

We shouldn't find out what someone is doing if they are calling people in the ME? After 9/11?

If they are innocent wonderful. But if they aren't, the fact that some people think you shouldn't do that is no consolation when you are counting the dead.

So are they innocent until proven guilty or are they guilty until proven innocent??

You seem to have things backwards.

Oh and just have to say, love the fearmongering and "24" rhetoric to justify violating someone's rights. I am sure jack bauer would be proud.

I don't understand the ignorance we have about national security.

Terrorists are NOT American citizens. They do not have a right to our court system, our laws, or our protections.

The Patriot Act was designed to protect American Citizens from terrorists who hide behind our laws to kill innocent American Citizens as they did on 9/11.

Liberals rant on and on about what could happen, but they never can bring up actual evidence of any American citizens hurt other than those who obviously were terrorists themselves like Jose Padilla.

The fact that we were terrorist attack free for eight years after 9/11 speaks to the efficiency of the Patriot Act.

Is the Patriot Act perfect? No. NOTHING IS. That's the problem with liberalism. If it isn't "perfect" as they ascribe perfection, then it must be done away with, in order for them to have their "social justice."

Social justice that is, that never works as evidenced by the walls the Clinton admin's Jamie Gorelick put between intelligence agencies that led to 9/11.

Since the Patriot Act has been relaxed in the Obama admin we already had terrorism in the guise of the Fort Hood shooter, and other terrorist acts.

It is no misconception that the Patriot Act helped keep this country safe, nor is it misconception that we dismantle those protections at our peril.

The only ignorance is being presented by you. Either that or you are merely feigning ignorance and being flat out dishonest.

Furthermore, we weren't terrorist attack free for 8 years after 9/11 however, thanks again for showing that you can't be honest. the shoe bomber, DC sniper, our embassies overseas were hit. SO please stop lying and at least try to be honest about it.

BTW care to explain HOW obama "relaxed" the patriot act?? Got anything REAL or are vague generalities all you have to offer?

Oh and in case you missed YOU made the satement about how it's OK to wiretap innocent people and that IF they are shown to be innocent, wonderful. I find it funny how people who are allegedly so supportive and defenseive of the constitution can trample it so easy.

So I will ask again and you will probably continue to rant in avoidance but are they innocent until proven guilty or guilty until proven innocent?

 

[Flopper]

I think the Teabaggers will help the Republicans in the midterm elections because most independent voters and moderates just don't turn out for the midterms. It is usually the party faithfuls and the mad as hell crowd that show up at the polls. The presidential elections are different story. Rhetoric such as Sarah Palin's "Don't retreat reload", "Join the conservative revolution", "Take to the streets and fight back" is not going to play well with the mainstream voters. For the Republicans to have a shot at the white house, they are going to have rein in the far right.