Liberals Still Lying About the Reagan Tax Cuts: No Wonder They're Lying About the Trump Tax Cuts

mikegriffith1

Mike Griffith
Gold Supporting Member
Oct 23, 2012
6,253
3,365
1,085
Virginia
In an active thread that debunks the liberal falsehoods about the Trump tax cuts ("Understanding the Liberal Propaganda About the Trump Tax Cuts"), one of our resident liberals (edthecynic) once again posted the same misleading arguments about the Reagan tax cuts that he and other liberals have posted on several previous occasions. I have personally answered these arguments at least three times in the last three years, and after the last time I even wrote an article that refuted them. Yet, incredibly, he trotted them out again yesterday.

Let's take a look at these misleading arguments and answer them yet again:

Reagan's tax cuts began in 1981, not 1983.

Well, actually, Reagan's tax cuts came in two bills, one passed in 1981 and the other passed in 1986. The 1981 tax cuts did not take effect until August 1981--more importantly, those tax cuts were not implemented all at once but took effect in phases over a three-year period. This is a key point that this guy and other liberals simply ignore. If you look at the tax tables for 1980 and 1986, not to mention 1988, you can see how massively Reagan cut taxes after all was said and done.

Revenue DECREASED in 1981 AND 1982 drastically,

Uh, yeah, because a huge recession started in July 1981, which obviously had nothing to do with Reagan's tax cuts, and that recession ended in November 1982. That is why revenue dropped. Reagan's 1981 tax cuts did not take effect until August 1981 and were not even fully implemented until after the recession ended.

so much so that Reagan RAISED taxes for 1983, the largest peacetime tax increase in history, and only after that massive Reagan tax INCREASE did revenue increase.

It is hard to imagine how to pack so much distortion and falsehood into barely three lines of text. In response, allow me to first quote from my article on the Bush and Reagan tax cuts:

To this day, in spite of the clear economic record, liberals continue to lie about and distort Reagan’s record on tax cuts and tax increases. They endlessly point out that Reagan raised taxes in 1982 and 1984, but they ignore the fact that his tax hikes were far smaller than his tax cuts and that he agreed to those tax hikes because Congress promised to enact spending reductions. Congress broke its word and never did cut spending. Liberals also often ignore the fact that Reagan’s tax hikes involved business income and loopholes, not personal income tax rates, and that he cut personal income taxes again in 1986.

One of the “tax increases” that liberals include in their list of Reagan tax hikes is his increase in the payroll tax (i.e., the Social Security tax). Reagan agreed to this increase as part of a deal with Democrats to ensure that Social Security stayed solvent. It seems rather misleading and unfair to label as a “tax increase” an increase in the amount that citizens must contribute to a fund from which they will later draw. Although raising the payroll tax does mean less money in peoples’ pockets, it also means that they will be able to collect their full promised Social Security benefit when they reach retirement age.

Liberals usually ignore the fact that Reagan’s historic 1981 tax cuts were phased in over a three-year period. The 1982 and 1984 tax-hike bills that Reagan signed did not raise revenue by raising personal income tax rates; rather, they raised revenue by making it harder to evade taxes, by reducing various tax breaks for businesses, and by closing tax loopholes. Reagan’s 1986 tax reform measure cut the top marginal rate down to 28%, but it also reduced tax breaks and tax shelters for the rich.

Again, the bottom line is that under Reagan the overall tax burden on Americans dropped dramatically. Anyone can look at the tax brackets for 1980 and 1988 and see that income tax rates were much lower at the end of Reagan’s presidency than they were when he took office. The next time a liberal tries to tell you that Reagan’s tax hikes “cancelled out much of his tax cuts,” just show them those tax tables.

Reagan also cut the capital gains tax rate for individuals. In 1979, the capital gains tax rate for individuals was 35%. In 1981, Reagan reduced that rate to 20%, and it stayed at that level for five years. In 1986, he agreed to raise the rate to 28%, but that was still far lower than what it had been before he took office. In other words, when Reagan left office in January 1989, the capital gains tax rate for individuals was 20% lower, or 7 percentage points lower, than it had been the year before he was elected.

Incidentally, as a result of the Reagan tax cuts, tax payments and the share of income taxes paid by the top 1% climbed sharply. For example, in 1981 the top 1% paid 17.6% of all personal income taxes, but by 1988 their share had jumped to 27.5%, a 10 percentage point increase. The share of the income tax burden borne by the top 10% of taxpayers increased from 48.0% in 1981 to 57.2% in 1988. Meanwhile, the share of income taxes paid by the bottom 50% of taxpayers dropped from 7.5% in 1981 to 5.7% in 1988.​

To put the nail in the coffin of the distortions and falsehoods about Reagan's tax policies, let's compare the tax rates in 1980 under Jimmy Carter with the tax rates in 1986, after Reagan's 1981 tax cuts had been phased in, and with the tax rates in 1988, Reagan's last year in office and after all of his tax cuts were in effect:

1980 (under Jimmy Carter)
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 0%
$3,400.00+ 14%
$5,500.00+ 16%
$7,600.00+ 18%
$11,900.00+ 21%
$16,000.00+ 24%
$20,200.00+ 28%
$24,600.00+ 32%
$29,900.00+ 37%
$35,200.00+ 43%
$45,800.00+ 49%
$60,000.00+ 54%
$85,600.00+ 59%
$109,400.00+ 64%
$162,400.00+ 68%
$215,400.00+ 70%

1986
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 11%
$3,000.00+ 15%
$28,000.00+ 28%
$45,000.00+ 35%
$90,000.00+ 38.5%

1988
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 15%
$30,950.00+ 28%

It should noted that Reagan also cut the corporate income tax rate by a whopping 25% (by 12 percentage points), from 46% to 34%--he cut it to 40% in 1987 and then to 34% in 1988. (And, to his credit, when Clinton came into office, he only raised the corporate income tax by 1 percentage point, to 35%, where it stayed until Trump cut it to 21% last year. The average corporate income tax rate in Europe and Asia is between 18% and 21%.)

Now let's see what happened to federal revenue after these massive tax cuts. Let's see what happened to federal revenue from 1983, after the recession ended, through 1989, keeping in mind that Reagan's 1981 tax cuts were phased in over a three-year period and that Reagan's second tax-cut bill, which cut taxes massively for all personal income over $45K, passed in 1986:

1983 -- $326 billion
1984 -- $355 billion
1985 -- $396 billion
1986 -- $412 billion
1987 -- $476 billion
1988 -- $496 billion
1989 -- $549 billion

To put these revenue hikes in percentages, federal revenue rose by a staggering 68% from 1983 to 1989. To put that in personal terms, imagine if you started a job in 2012 and your salary had risen by 68% as of this year--that would mean that your annual raises averaged over 11%!

Seriously, will liberals ever stop lying about the Reagan tax cuts? If they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the facts about the Reagan tax cuts, what hops is there that they will be truthful about the Trump tax cuts?

Setting the Record Straight About the Bush and Reagan Tax Cuts

Reagan tax cuts provide a valuable lesson

The Facts About Tax Cuts, Revenue, and Growth

Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record

Reaganomics, by William A. Niskanen: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
 
Yet the deficit always grows no matter Republican tax cuts.

You lost the argument yesterday, and you will lose it today, mike.
 
Reagan brought down interest rates. Trump is raising them. The fed is simply slowing the economy so that when it comes to a standstill they can do something to speed it up to justify its existence.
 
Even more broadly, the democrats constantly lie about taxation as a whole.

usgs_line.php

Every year taxes keep increasing and increasing. We need to make America great again and get back to that 1905 level of 5% taxation. Today we have a bunch of looters taking and taking from the Americans.
 
Their favorite lie is that tax cuts worsens our debt.

It's the spending stupid. If you make less, spend less. Problem solved. Balance your budget.

And yes, the GOP have proven to be spending whores too.
 
The fact is that whenever the GOP cuts taxes, the deficit continues to grow.
 
In an active thread that debunks the liberal falsehoods about the Trump tax cuts ("Understanding the Liberal Propaganda About the Trump Tax Cuts"), one of our resident liberals (edthecynic) once again posted the same misleading arguments about the Reagan tax cuts that he and other liberals have posted on several previous occasions. I have personally answered these arguments at least three times in the last three years, and after the last time I even wrote an article that refuted them. Yet, incredibly, he trotted them out again yesterday.

Let's take a look at these misleading arguments and answer them yet again:

Reagan's tax cuts began in 1981, not 1983.

Well, actually, Reagan's tax cuts came in two bills, one passed in 1981 and the other passed in 1986. The 1981 tax cuts did not take effect until August 1981--more importantly, those tax cuts were not implemented all at once but took effect in phases over a three-year period. This is a key point that this guy and other liberals simply ignore. If you look at the tax tables for 1980 and 1986, not to mention 1988, you can see how massively Reagan cut taxes after all was said and done.

Revenue DECREASED in 1981 AND 1982 drastically,

Uh, yeah, because a huge recession started in July 1981, which obviously had nothing to do with Reagan's tax cuts, and that recession ended in November 1982. That is why revenue dropped. Reagan's 1981 tax cuts did not take effect until August 1981 and were not even fully implemented until after the recession ended.

so much so that Reagan RAISED taxes for 1983, the largest peacetime tax increase in history, and only after that massive Reagan tax INCREASE did revenue increase.

It is hard to imagine how to pack so much distortion and falsehood into barely three lines of text. In response, allow me to first quote from my article on the Bush and Reagan tax cuts:

To this day, in spite of the clear economic record, liberals continue to lie about and distort Reagan’s record on tax cuts and tax increases. They endlessly point out that Reagan raised taxes in 1982 and 1984, but they ignore the fact that his tax hikes were far smaller than his tax cuts and that he agreed to those tax hikes because Congress promised to enact spending reductions. Congress broke its word and never did cut spending. Liberals also often ignore the fact that Reagan’s tax hikes involved business income and loopholes, not personal income tax rates, and that he cut personal income taxes again in 1986.

One of the “tax increases” that liberals include in their list of Reagan tax hikes is his increase in the payroll tax (i.e., the Social Security tax). Reagan agreed to this increase as part of a deal with Democrats to ensure that Social Security stayed solvent. It seems rather misleading and unfair to label as a “tax increase” an increase in the amount that citizens must contribute to a fund from which they will later draw. Although raising the payroll tax does mean less money in peoples’ pockets, it also means that they will be able to collect their full promised Social Security benefit when they reach retirement age.

Liberals usually ignore the fact that Reagan’s historic 1981 tax cuts were phased in over a three-year period. The 1982 and 1984 tax-hike bills that Reagan signed did not raise revenue by raising personal income tax rates; rather, they raised revenue by making it harder to evade taxes, by reducing various tax breaks for businesses, and by closing tax loopholes. Reagan’s 1986 tax reform measure cut the top marginal rate down to 28%, but it also reduced tax breaks and tax shelters for the rich.

Again, the bottom line is that under Reagan the overall tax burden on Americans dropped dramatically. Anyone can look at the tax brackets for 1980 and 1988 and see that income tax rates were much lower at the end of Reagan’s presidency than they were when he took office. The next time a liberal tries to tell you that Reagan’s tax hikes “cancelled out much of his tax cuts,” just show them those tax tables.

Reagan also cut the capital gains tax rate for individuals. In 1979, the capital gains tax rate for individuals was 35%. In 1981, Reagan reduced that rate to 20%, and it stayed at that level for five years. In 1986, he agreed to raise the rate to 28%, but that was still far lower than what it had been before he took office. In other words, when Reagan left office in January 1989, the capital gains tax rate for individuals was 20% lower, or 7 percentage points lower, than it had been the year before he was elected.

Incidentally, as a result of the Reagan tax cuts, tax payments and the share of income taxes paid by the top 1% climbed sharply. For example, in 1981 the top 1% paid 17.6% of all personal income taxes, but by 1988 their share had jumped to 27.5%, a 10 percentage point increase. The share of the income tax burden borne by the top 10% of taxpayers increased from 48.0% in 1981 to 57.2% in 1988. Meanwhile, the share of income taxes paid by the bottom 50% of taxpayers dropped from 7.5% in 1981 to 5.7% in 1988.​

To put the nail in the coffin of the distortions and falsehoods about Reagan's tax policies, let's compare the tax rates in 1980 under Jimmy Carter with the tax rates in 1986, after Reagan's 1981 tax cuts had been phased in, and with the tax rates in 1988, Reagan's last year in office and after all of his tax cuts were in effect:

1980 (under Jimmy Carter)
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 0%
$3,400.00+ 14%
$5,500.00+ 16%
$7,600.00+ 18%
$11,900.00+ 21%
$16,000.00+ 24%
$20,200.00+ 28%
$24,600.00+ 32%
$29,900.00+ 37%
$35,200.00+ 43%
$45,800.00+ 49%
$60,000.00+ 54%
$85,600.00+ 59%
$109,400.00+ 64%
$162,400.00+ 68%
$215,400.00+ 70%

1986
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 11%
$3,000.00+ 15%
$28,000.00+ 28%
$45,000.00+ 35%
$90,000.00+ 38.5%

1988
Tax Bracket Tax Rate
$0.00+ 15%
$30,950.00+ 28%

It should noted that Reagan also cut the corporate income tax rate by a whopping 25% (by 12 percentage points), from 46% to 34%--he cut it to 40% in 1987 and then to 34% in 1988. (And, to his credit, when Clinton came into office, he only raised the corporate income tax by 1 percentage point, to 35%, where it stayed until Trump cut it to 21% last year. The average corporate income tax rate in Europe and Asia is between 18% and 21%.)

Now let's see what happened to federal revenue after these massive tax cuts. Let's see what happened to federal revenue from 1983, after the recession ended, through 1989, keeping in mind that Reagan's 1981 tax cuts were phased in over a three-year period and that Reagan's second tax-cut bill, which cut taxes massively for all personal income over $45K, passed in 1986:

1983 -- $326 billion
1984 -- $355 billion
1985 -- $396 billion
1986 -- $412 billion
1987 -- $476 billion
1988 -- $496 billion
1989 -- $549 billion

To put these revenue hikes in percentages, federal revenue rose by a staggering 68% from 1983 to 1989. To put that in personal terms, imagine if you started a job in 2012 and your salary had risen by 68% as of this year--that would mean that your annual raises averaged over 11%!

Seriously, will liberals ever stop lying about the Reagan tax cuts? If they can't bring themselves to acknowledge the facts about the Reagan tax cuts, what hops is there that they will be truthful about the Trump tax cuts?

Setting the Record Straight About the Bush and Reagan Tax Cuts

Reagan tax cuts provide a valuable lesson

The Facts About Tax Cuts, Revenue, and Growth

Supply-Side Tax Cuts and the Truth about the Reagan Economic Record

Reaganomics, by William A. Niskanen: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty

Yet the deficit always grows no matter Republican tax cuts.

You lost the argument yesterday, and you will lose it today, mike.

Here is the thing Mike you need to understand------->the Left HAS to lie, what else are they going to do. All they can do is attack the other side, so as the population doesn't pay attention to what they really want.

Suppose their whole Trump fantasy went away, what would they run on?

1. We want to take away your tax break.

2. We want open borders, and we want you taxpayers to take care of the influx.

3. We want to keep your children in schools of OUR choice, not yours, so we can indoctrinate them.

4. We want national healthcare for everyone, and your life and childrens lives will be decided by the government, just like in Britain.

5. We are going to get your guns, one way or the other, one step at a time, just like we do everything else.

Now you know why they have to lie to cause controversy on everything. They NEVER say what they are going to do for you so you have choice, they insist what they will do for you with YOUR OWN money, after they take it. They are a bunch of pointy headed control freaks, period!

And one more thing----------> Do you actually believe they do not know that revenue goes up after tax cuts by all reports? Of course they do! And if they didn't, since it is always the same people on here, they knew it after the last 3 times you posted it. They are LIARS, have to be LIARS, and waste your time over and over again, because it keeps them on the attack.

Just look, you/we have proven it 3 times, and now this is the 4th, all the graphs show it from Coolidge, to Kennedy, to Reagan, to GW, and they still LIE and insist you are wrong, lol. Not because they can't read. Not because they don't know. But because they can't admit it, or 1/2 their argument politically goes up in smoke.

Let me ask you-------->how can you BUY votes by transferring wealth, if it is proven that we are taxed enough, and the problem is on the spending side of the equation, lol. How can you demonize part of the population, that when you give them a tax break, everybody gets jobs a lot easier and makes more money!

Feel sorry for the Leftists Mike. It has to be rough to have to get up every day, knowing you have to LIE constantly to believe in your ideology. That is why they dislike us so much, because we stand there and tell them they are phony baloneys, and full of sh** as a Thanksgiving Turkey, and we can prove it. Liars can NOT have that, lolol, which means, keep up the good work Mike!
 
Yet the deficit always grows no matter Republican tax cuts.

You lost the argument yesterday, and you will lose it today, mike.

You guys always say that. Why don't you present some FACTS that show that federal revenue did not increase after the Reagan tax cuts? Why don't you present some FACTS that show that personal income taxes, the capital gains tax, and the corporate income tax were not all substantially lower, even after Reagan's few tax hikes? Are the tax tables in the OP wrong? If the overall federal tax burden was not substantial lower after all was said done, why do the hard data of the tax tables prove that the overall tax burden was in fact immensely lower? And yet federal revenue rose dramatically and the economy boomed for six years in a row.

Are you standing by edthecynic's truly funny argument that the 1981 recession was Reagan's fault because of the Fed's monetary policy? Is that how he "won" the argument yesterday?! The only problem is that Presidents do not set Fed monetary policy, not to mention the fact that the Fed chairman--Paul Volcker--was not a Reagan appointee.

Do you stand by edthecynic's silly argument that the Reagan tax cuts made the 1981-82 recession worse? So letting consumers keep more of their own money hurts the economy? Do you guys just refuse to process the fact that when Reagan came to office, we had already been suffering from a long period of **double-digit** inflation, interest rates, and unemployment? You can Google these facts, if you don't believe me.

How do you explain the economy's dramatic turnaround that began at the end of 1982 and continued for six years and that occurred at the same time that the overall federal tax burden on personal income, capital gains, and corporate income was being drastically reduced?
 
Last edited:
Rather than respond to the several replies from our two resident liberal mythmakers, I'll note some points:

* The double-digit unemployment came during the Carter recession that started barely five months after Reagan took office, before one jot or tittle of Reagan's economic policies had been implemented.

* Interest rates had been at 10-plus percent for over two years before Reagan took office, and they were in the mid-teens for all of 1980.

* Inflation had been in double-digit territory since late 1979 before Reagan took office. Inflation stood at 11.3% when he took the oath of office in January 1981.

* When Reagan agreed to raise taxes in exchange for a promise of future spending cuts, he certainly did not expect that Tip O'Neill would make Star Wars cuts a requirement to get other spending cuts. O'Neill and the Dems started bundling all spending bills into massive omnibus bills and daring Reagan to sign them or shut down the government with a veto.

* Reagan tax cuts far, far, far outweighed his tax hikes. Anyone can look at the tax tables (they're presented in the OP) and see this for themselves. Not only did Reagan slash personal income taxes but he cut the corporate income tax and the capital gains tax.

* Reagan's 1981 tax cuts were phased in over a three-year period, and in 1983 federal revenue began to rise substantially, and it continued rising every year for the next six years.

* At the same time that federal revenue was rising substantially, the economy took off, giving us one of the largest peace-time economic expansions in our history, thanks to Reagan's tax cuts--and also his considerable deregulation.

* Indeed, anyone who was happy with Obama's recovery should be thrilled with Reagan's recovery:

Reagan's Economy vs. Obama's | RealClearPolicy

Reagan Recovery vs. Obama Recovery in Pictures

The Obama Economy vs. The Reagan Economy: It's Literally No Contest
 
The fact is that whenever the GOP cuts taxes, the deficit continues to grow.

While lib Presidents raise taxes and spend like drunken Sailors (no disrespect to inebriated Squids)...

Oh and Mike do not mention (Trickle Down) as the natives will get restless and start boiling the oil and plucking the chickens...
 
We are talking about cons who keep spending despite tax cuts, Ridgerunner.

You all are no different a'tall than the dems.
 

Forum List

Back
Top