Liberals for wealth redistribution

[rightwinger]

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As part of a society you are expected to contribute based on your ability to pay and what you draw from the society.
The members of the society decide, through their elected representatives who pays what and who receives what. The wealthy benefit more from the society and they also use more in terms of how the society protects their ability to earn money, how the society provides trained workers, how the society provides security and how the society protects against international competion
In the last 30 years there has been a redistribution of wealth due to the revised tax structure. It has grown to the point where 90% of available wealth is controlled by 10% of the people. The remaining 90% of the people fight over the remaining 10%.
It is time to tweak ehe way wealth is distributed to allow the working level to retain more of their income to be able to afford basic necessities such as housing, food, education and healthcare

Another leftwinger admitting he would not mind if the Government illegally set a personal wealth limit and then went about seizing all assets above that limit. Hate to break it to you BUT that is not covered in the Constitution.

Another rightwinger crying "They are trying to take away all my money" when talk turns to returning to earlier tax rates.

The standard of living for working Americans is declining as the top 10% claim a greater percentage of wealth. Lets end the idiocy of "trickle down" and allow the middle class to reclaim more of their former wealth

 

[rightwinger]

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As part of a society you are expected to contribute based on your ability to pay and what you draw from the society.
The members of the society decide, through their elected representatives who pays what and who receives what. The wealthy benefit more from the society and they also use more in terms of how the society protects their ability to earn money, how the society provides trained workers, how the society provides security and how the society protects against international competion
In the last 30 years there has been a redistribution of wealth due to the revised tax structure. It has grown to the point where 90% of available wealth is controlled by 10% of the people. The remaining 90% of the people fight over the remaining 10%.
It is time to tweak ehe way wealth is distributed to allow the working level to retain more of their income to be able to afford basic necessities such as housing, food, education and healthcare

Rightwinger is on board with socialism....hence the nickname leftwinger.

Yea right..

When you funnel more money to the rich it is called PATRIOTISM

When you establish programs to help the working Americans....it is called SOCIALISM

 

[rightwinger]

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As part of a society you are expected to contribute based on your ability to pay and what you draw from the society.

Bullsheet.

We are supposed to be living in a Constitutional Republic which was never authorized to steal from "A" in order to support "B".

.

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

 

[RetiredGySgt]

By in large, the taxes you pay go to support the infrastructure of the society in which you're able to make your money. I don't know what you do, but I'm willing to bet you depend upon things like highways, air traffic control, and a million other government programs you never think of but count on every day.

And so the Government can illegally decide to seize any amount of your personal wealth over what they deem appropriate?

No, they can do so legally. It's in the constitution of the U.S. and every State constitution.

Quote for me the part of the Constitution that authorizes the Government to seize land and money of private citizens because the Government has decided thay have to much. I won't hold my breath for your cite.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Gadawg, after reading your posts, I look forward to discussing with you; Please don't troll me.

My point is, the statistics attempt to make it appear the top brackets are unfairly taxed. Yes, they have a higher effective rate (Unless they cheat), but not to the extent that RetGySrg and Meister attempt to make it appear.

By "Disproportionate share of the wealth," all I meant was that the reason they're paying a "Disproportionate" amount of the total tax collected, is that they are making a "Disproportionate" share of the money, relative to the amounts of the "Total tax collected" that they pay. In other words, the reason the top x% pay y% of the total tax collected is that the top x% made roughly y% of the total wages.

Let's do it again with some numbers more relative to what's happening in the States.

1 guy made 10,000,000 last year.
9 guys made 1,000,000 each.
40 guys made 100,000 each.
50 guys made 25,000 each.

Each are taxed at exactly 20%.

First guy paid $2,000,000.
next 9 paid $200,000, x 9 = $1,800,000.
next 40 paid $20,000, x 40 = $800,000.
next 50 paid $5,000, x 50 = $250,000.

Everyone was taxed identical percentages of their earnings. I could make the following statements and they would be true, using the algorithm conservatives use to make the tax burden appear unfair:
"The top 1% paid 41% of the total tax burden last year!"
"The top 10% paid 78% of the total tax burden last year!"
"The top 50% paid 94% of the total tax burden last year!"

Leaving of course, the bottom 50 paying only about 6%, which seems unfair if it's the only statistic you have in front of you... But the truth is, they hardly made any money, which is why their "Total tax burden" percentage is so low... Not that they were taxed at a lower rate. They were taxed at a lower rate (In the U.S., not in my example; In my example, everyone was taxed precisely equally), but not proportionate to how little tax it appears they've paid.

Does that make sense? Do you think the upper brackets should actually be taxed at a lower percentage? Because that's the only way this particular statistic would be more balanced.

In what world does this happen, Cuyo? Certainly not on the planet Earth.
There is a percentage that pays no taxes and gets a check back from our government, Yeah, I see......NOT.

I mean only to provide an explanation of where the "The top X percent pay Y Percent of the total tax burden!" comes from, and why it's a largely irrelevant (and mis-understood) analysis. As you can see bolded above, I already explained that the U.S. does not work that way; But that even if they did, the "X pays Y" argument would still appear unfair to the upper classes.

If anything in my analysis was in any way unclear or mathematically incorrect, please point it out to me...

And nobody gets a free ride. Everyone who earns anything pays payroll taxes (FICA), which in turn pay for about 1/3 of our budget.

You are BEYOND stupid. People that make money do not always pay taxes. Or rather due to the tax laws they get all their INCOME TAX payments back. Depends on how much they make, how many dependents they have and what tax programs they qualify for.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As part of a society you are expected to contribute based on your ability to pay and what you draw from the society.

Bullsheet.

We are supposed to be living in a Constitutional Republic which was never authorized to steal from "A" in order to support "B".

.

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

MORON ALERT. This thread is NOT about taxes. It is about lefties wanting to set a personal wealth liit and allow the Government to seize all money and assets above the line they set.

Once again you fucking dumb ass. the other thread is ALL about TAKING other peoples money NOT taxation. Taking their money and property because they have more then some liberal thins they should have. Setting a Limit of personal private wealth above which the Government confiscates all money and assets for redistribution.

 

[Meister]

Gadawg, after reading your posts, I look forward to discussing with you; Please don't troll me.

My point is, the statistics attempt to make it appear the top brackets are unfairly taxed. Yes, they have a higher effective rate (Unless they cheat), but not to the extent that RetGySrg and Meister attempt to make it appear.

By "Disproportionate share of the wealth," all I meant was that the reason they're paying a "Disproportionate" amount of the total tax collected, is that they are making a "Disproportionate" share of the money, relative to the amounts of the "Total tax collected" that they pay. In other words, the reason the top x% pay y% of the total tax collected is that the top x% made roughly y% of the total wages.

Let's do it again with some numbers more relative to what's happening in the States.

1 guy made 10,000,000 last year.
9 guys made 1,000,000 each.
40 guys made 100,000 each.
50 guys made 25,000 each.

Each are taxed at exactly 20%.

First guy paid $2,000,000.
next 9 paid $200,000, x 9 = $1,800,000.
next 40 paid $20,000, x 40 = $800,000.
next 50 paid $5,000, x 50 = $250,000.

Everyone was taxed identical percentages of their earnings. I could make the following statements and they would be true, using the algorithm conservatives use to make the tax burden appear unfair:
"The top 1% paid 41% of the total tax burden last year!"
"The top 10% paid 78% of the total tax burden last year!"
"The top 50% paid 94% of the total tax burden last year!"

Leaving of course, the bottom 50 paying only about 6%, which seems unfair if it's the only statistic you have in front of you... But the truth is, they hardly made any money, which is why their "Total tax burden" percentage is so low... Not that they were taxed at a lower rate. They were taxed at a lower rate (In the U.S., not in my example; In my example, everyone was taxed precisely equally), but not proportionate to how little tax it appears they've paid.

Does that make sense? Do you think the upper brackets should actually be taxed at a lower percentage? Because that's the only way this particular statistic would be more balanced.

In what world does this happen, Cuyo? Certainly not on the planet Earth.
There is a percentage that pays no taxes and gets a check back from our government, Yeah, I see......NOT.

I mean only to provide an explanation of where the "The top X percent pay Y Percent of the total tax burden!" comes from, and why it's a largely irrelevant (and mis-understood) analysis. As you can see bolded above, I already explained that the U.S. does not work that way; But that even if they did, the "X pays Y" argument would still appear unfair to the upper classes.

If anything in my analysis was in any way unclear or mathematically incorrect, please point it out to me...

And nobody gets a free ride. Everyone who earns anything pays payroll taxes (FICA), which in turn pay for about 1/3 of our budget.

And the Earned Income Credit does exactly what??????

 

[Meister]

Like it or not, you belong to a society. As part of a society you are expected to contribute based on your ability to pay and what you draw from the society.

Bullsheet.

We are supposed to be living in a Constitutional Republic which was never authorized to steal from "A" in order to support "B".

.

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

I'm all for fair taxation, leftwinger.
It's that sliding scale and who controls it that defines the stealing, or not.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Bullsheet.

We are supposed to be living in a Constitutional Republic which was never authorized to steal from "A" in order to support "B".

.

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

I'm all for fair taxation, leftwinger.
It's that sliding scale and who controls it that defines the stealing, or not.

We are NOT discussing taxation. The Liberals I pointed out want the Government to set a limit of how much money a private citizen can have. Any money or assets above that limit the Government will seize and redistribute as it sees fit.

 

[Meister]

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

I'm all for fair taxation, leftwinger.
It's that sliding scale and who controls it that defines the stealing, or not.

We are NOT discussing taxation. The Liberals I pointed out want the Government to set a limit of how much money a private citizen can have. Any money or assets above that limit the Government will seize and redistribute as it sees fit.

The way they limit one's wealth is through taxation.

 

[rightwinger]

And so the Government can illegally decide to seize any amount of your personal wealth over what they deem appropriate?

No, they can do so legally. It's in the constitution of the U.S. and every State constitution.

Quote for me the part of the Constitution that authorizes the Government to seize land and money of private citizens because the Government has decided thay have to much. I won't hold my breath for your cite.

The Government has the right to tax to raise revenue. Not because they think you make too much, but because "We the People" have decided what your contribution to the society needs to be

 

[rightwinger]

Bullsheet.

We are supposed to be living in a Constitutional Republic which was never authorized to steal from "A" in order to support "B".

.

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

MORON ALERT. This thread is NOT about taxes. It is about lefties wanting to set a personal wealth liit and allow the Government to seize all money and assets above the line they set.

Once again you fucking dumb ass. the other thread is ALL about TAKING other peoples money NOT taxation. Taking their money and property because they have more then some liberal thins they should have. Setting a Limit of personal private wealth above which the Government confiscates all money and assets for redistribution.

Show me a single bill where anyone has ever proposed a personal wealth limit

Must be easy...show me one

You listen to Glenn Beck too much

 

[Meister]

No, they can do so legally. It's in the constitution of the U.S. and every State constitution.

Quote for me the part of the Constitution that authorizes the Government to seize land and money of private citizens because the Government has decided thay have to much. I won't hold my breath for your cite.

The Government has the right to tax to raise revenue. Not because they think you make too much, but because "We the People" have decided what your contribution to the society needs to be

Bullshit. It's the government and not "We the People". What a fucking tool you are leftwinger.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No, they can do so legally. It's in the constitution of the U.S. and every State constitution.

Quote for me the part of the Constitution that authorizes the Government to seize land and money of private citizens because the Government has decided thay have to much. I won't hold my breath for your cite.

The Government has the right to tax to raise revenue. Not because they think you make too much, but because "We the People" have decided what your contribution to the society needs to be

I have been patient with your IGNORANT ASS. We are NOT discussing taxation. The Government does NOT have the authority to establish a Personal wealth limit and then seize all money and assets above that limit from private citizens.

Taxation is not even close to what is being discussed and you well know it or are amazingly IGNORANT.

 

[rightwinger]

Quote for me the part of the Constitution that authorizes the Government to seize land and money of private citizens because the Government has decided thay have to much. I won't hold my breath for your cite.

The Government has the right to tax to raise revenue. Not because they think you make too much, but because "We the People" have decided what your contribution to the society needs to be

Bullshit. It's the government and not "We the People". What a fucking tool you are leftwinger.

Of course they are....they are our rightfully elected representatives

Did you miss that part in the Constitution? Articles 1, 2 and 3?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Paying taxes is not stealing....it is contributing to the society that supports you

MORON ALERT. This thread is NOT about taxes. It is about lefties wanting to set a personal wealth liit and allow the Government to seize all money and assets above the line they set.

Once again you fucking dumb ass. the other thread is ALL about TAKING other peoples money NOT taxation. Taking their money and property because they have more then some liberal thins they should have. Setting a Limit of personal private wealth above which the Government confiscates all money and assets for redistribution.

Show me a single bill where anyone has ever proposed a personal wealth limit

Must be easy...show me one

You listen to Glenn Beck too much

Now you try to divert in another way. YOU ARE BEYOND IGNORANT. I linked to the thread in question in the opening post. And my point is people like you think the Government SHOULD establish a limit and seize the funds. I am pointing out that the left thinks it is a good idea for the Government to establish a personal wealth limit and to seize all money and assets above that limit.

FUCKING MORON.

 

[Meister]

The Government has the right to tax to raise revenue. Not because they think you make too much, but because "We the People" have decided what your contribution to the society needs to be

Bullshit. It's the government and not "We the People". What a fucking tool you are leftwinger.

Of course they are....they are our rightfully elected representatives

Did you miss that part in the Constitution? Articles 1, 2 and 3?

What a fucking tool you are leftwinger.
Please trust your "rightfully elected representitives"

 

[Cuyo]

In what world does this happen, Cuyo? Certainly not on the planet Earth.
There is a percentage that pays no taxes and gets a check back from our government, Yeah, I see......NOT.

I mean only to provide an explanation of where the "The top X percent pay Y Percent of the total tax burden!" comes from, and why it's a largely irrelevant (and mis-understood) analysis. As you can see bolded above, I already explained that the U.S. does not work that way; But that even if they did, the "X pays Y" argument would still appear unfair to the upper classes.

If anything in my analysis was in any way unclear or mathematically incorrect, please point it out to me...

And nobody gets a free ride. Everyone who earns anything pays payroll taxes (FICA), which in turn pay for about 1/3 of our budget.

You are BEYOND stupid. People that make money do not always pay taxes. Or rather due to the tax laws they get all their INCOME TAX payments back. Depends on how much they make, how many dependents they have and what tax programs they qualify for.

It is so amusing to watch you're peckerwood tough-guy Napolean complex ass calling people "Moron" and "Stupid" while spewing blatantly false hyperbole.

Listen to me carefully. Let this sink in.

Everyone pays FICA at 7.65% of wages, which is matched by the employer, on the first $106,800 they earn in wages. Everyone. You don't get this money back via tax returns.

YOU are beyond stupid. YOU are setting off the "Moron alert." YOU have nothing to contribute. You think you're so smart and ahead of the curve, but the nonsense that keeps coming out of your mouth is disruptive. That said, I'd like you to go away now. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

 

[Cuyo]

Meister, are you gonna call me an idiot again and agree with RetGySys? In addition to the top 10% having 97% of the tax burden, do you believe that people get their FICA back on their tax returns?

 

[Gadawg73]

I mean only to provide an explanation of where the "The top X percent pay Y Percent of the total tax burden!" comes from, and why it's a largely irrelevant (and mis-understood) analysis. As you can see bolded above, I already explained that the U.S. does not work that way; But that even if they did, the "X pays Y" argument would still appear unfair to the upper classes.

If anything in my analysis was in any way unclear or mathematically incorrect, please point it out to me...

And nobody gets a free ride. Everyone who earns anything pays payroll taxes (FICA), which in turn pay for about 1/3 of our budget.

You are BEYOND stupid. People that make money do not always pay taxes. Or rather due to the tax laws they get all their INCOME TAX payments back. Depends on how much they make, how many dependents they have and what tax programs they qualify for.

It is so amusing to watch you're peckerwood tough-guy Napolean complex ass calling people "Moron" and "Stupid" while spewing blatantly false hyperbole.

Listen to me carefully. Let this sink in.

Everyone pays FICA at 7.65% of wages, which is matched by the employer, on the first $106,800 they earn in wages. Everyone. You don't get this money back via tax returns.

YOU are beyond stupid. YOU are setting off the "Moron alert." YOU have nothing to contribute. You think you're so smart and ahead of the curve, but the nonsense that keeps coming out of your mouth is disruptive. That said, I'd like you to go away now. Thank you in advance for your cooperation in this matter.

I employ and never "match" any of my employees FICA. No business ever matches a dam thing.
That is the bull shit con game the government plays with naive Americans that know nothing of economics and business.
When I determine the wage for someone I consider ALL OF the expenses to hire that person.
If I allocate 50K as the total dollar figure for any employee then I have to allocate 8K for their,not MY, health package and another $3200 for their, NOT MY, FICA then the wage for that job is $38,800. Out of that $38,800 they have to pay another $3200 out of their checkfrom the $38,800 yearly salary.
The employee PAYS IT, the entire amount out of their total wage allocated. ALWAYS
That is the real world, not this crazy bull shit the government has you believe.