- Thread starter
- #21
I don't own any, sorry. Keep spewing nonsense and backing out since you have no facts for your garbage.
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Let's talk about Cuba..
- Thread starter Socialist
- Start date
- Banned
- #22
Your dear leader and champion of the poor... worth over $900 million.I don't own any, sorry. Keep spewing nonsense and backing out since you have no facts for your garbage.How many Che Guevarra T-shirts do you own? Go ahead and keep on praising dictatorships from a country where you have the freedom to do so. As soon as the embargo is lifted and Cuba begins to prosper from the Capitalism of the U.S., the people there will realize what they've been missing.No facts, more anecdotal bullshit completely out of place with reality. Keep spewing bullshit. I've provided evidence for all of my factual claims, you keep spewing garbage. Truly idiotic. "3rd world healthcare" Yeah, which is why there infant mortality is extremely low, and there life expectancy is one of the highest. Compare cuba before and after the revolution, genius. The "castro" is a murderer bullshit, yeah, he led a violent revolution to overthrow a corrupt government with the support of those who were suffering, of course violence happened, jesus christ, do you have any evidence? Read my damn post, and get back to your cave.Castro is a monster. There's a reason people flee on rafts as safe as driftwood from there. Under his reign there was no freedom in Cuba; dissidents were jailed and murdered, there was no food for the people, there were no amenities for the people, and Castro lived lavishly off of USSR and other countries contributions in exchange for his allegiance. Years ago in the 90's my uncle was allowed to leave Cuba for a month in the U.S... he gained 30 pounds. The people drive shit cars from the 50's. They don't BUILD anything there! Just take what the government gives them.
The U.S. is partly culpable for doing nothing. We enacted an embargo that essentially cemented Castro's rule, and even now many want to keep it in place and allow Cuba to do whatever it wants without the influence if its closest neighbor and the most powerful country in the world.
I can tell you didn't bother to read my post, so let's get started. Castro is a monster? Please, enlighten me instead of spewing senseless propaganda. People flee on rafts made of driftwood? I assume you refer to the wealthy fleeing after the peasants/the poor won the revolution, which did happen, but now, people are allowed to leave Cuba if they apply, it doesn't take to long, and people are allowed to leave quite often, however, yes, people do leave on boats sometimes, no one denies that. Dissidents were jailed and murdered? Ok, let's imagine you just led a violent revolution against an oppressive government with the majority rallying behind you in a third world country with the people calling for you to kill the traitors. Tell me where you get your facts please. No food? Are you fucking kidding me? The facts disagree with you on ALL levels, and my aunt is from fucking cuba, she was one of the wealthy who left on the boats, and even she is honest enough to admit cuba is better off for the majority of people, which s surprising. Oh god, the 50's car bullshit, when will people quit pretending that means anything to the cuban people? Public transportation, not being obsessed with grabbing some fancy car, why does that matter to you? They don't build anything? Tell me more about cuban housing before and after the revolution, education, healthcare, doctors they send worldwide, the democracy they have, the overwhelming millions who wanted "socialism" permanently put into the constitution, and your anecdotal claim means nothing to me, no Cubans are starving, homelessness is virtually eradicated, literacy is 99.8% (100%) healthcare is guaranteed, even though it has its flaws..
Castro is a monster?
Yes. He killed many of his own, in order to become a dictator. No dissent was allowed during his reign.
People flee on rafts made of driftwood?
No moron, people flee on rafts AS SAFE as driftwood, meaning dangerous, meaning they risk their lives. People are fleeing TO THIS DAY in those rafts. How many of THOSE from, let's say 2014, were wealthy before the revolution?
Dissidents were jailed and murdered?
You admitted this was correct in your post. So there's no point in me answering it. Btw, dissenters continue to be jailed.
No food?
There's some food. But if you have too much, you better hide some of it. Or the government WILL ACTUALLY come question you.
Oh god, the 50's car bullshit, when will people quit pretending that means anything to the cuban people?
Well apparently they're allowing some new imports now. Get ready to pay $50,000 for a $15,000 car. Oh and I'm only referring to the current wealthy who are able to pay for that with their political connections.
They don't build anything?
No they don't. Their top exports are sugar and cigars. And sure they have healthcare, the best healthcare the 3rd world has to offer.
Fidel Castro Net Worth Celebrity Net Worth
- Thread starter
- #23
It doesn't say how they get that number, at all, keep throwing out unrelated bullshit. And yes, he is a champion of the poor, factual evidence agrees with me, compare cuba before and after the revolution, read my fucking OP, and have some honesty.Your dear leader and champion of the poor... worth over $900 million.I don't own any, sorry. Keep spewing nonsense and backing out since you have no facts for your garbage.How many Che Guevarra T-shirts do you own? Go ahead and keep on praising dictatorships from a country where you have the freedom to do so. As soon as the embargo is lifted and Cuba begins to prosper from the Capitalism of the U.S., the people there will realize what they've been missing.No facts, more anecdotal bullshit completely out of place with reality. Keep spewing bullshit. I've provided evidence for all of my factual claims, you keep spewing garbage. Truly idiotic. "3rd world healthcare" Yeah, which is why there infant mortality is extremely low, and there life expectancy is one of the highest. Compare cuba before and after the revolution, genius. The "castro" is a murderer bullshit, yeah, he led a violent revolution to overthrow a corrupt government with the support of those who were suffering, of course violence happened, jesus christ, do you have any evidence? Read my damn post, and get back to your cave.I can tell you didn't bother to read my post, so let's get started. Castro is a monster? Please, enlighten me instead of spewing senseless propaganda. People flee on rafts made of driftwood? I assume you refer to the wealthy fleeing after the peasants/the poor won the revolution, which did happen, but now, people are allowed to leave Cuba if they apply, it doesn't take to long, and people are allowed to leave quite often, however, yes, people do leave on boats sometimes, no one denies that. Dissidents were jailed and murdered? Ok, let's imagine you just led a violent revolution against an oppressive government with the majority rallying behind you in a third world country with the people calling for you to kill the traitors. Tell me where you get your facts please. No food? Are you fucking kidding me? The facts disagree with you on ALL levels, and my aunt is from fucking cuba, she was one of the wealthy who left on the boats, and even she is honest enough to admit cuba is better off for the majority of people, which s surprising. Oh god, the 50's car bullshit, when will people quit pretending that means anything to the cuban people? Public transportation, not being obsessed with grabbing some fancy car, why does that matter to you? They don't build anything? Tell me more about cuban housing before and after the revolution, education, healthcare, doctors they send worldwide, the democracy they have, the overwhelming millions who wanted "socialism" permanently put into the constitution, and your anecdotal claim means nothing to me, no Cubans are starving, homelessness is virtually eradicated, literacy is 99.8% (100%) healthcare is guaranteed, even though it has its flaws..
Castro is a monster?
Yes. He killed many of his own, in order to become a dictator. No dissent was allowed during his reign.
People flee on rafts made of driftwood?
No moron, people flee on rafts AS SAFE as driftwood, meaning dangerous, meaning they risk their lives. People are fleeing TO THIS DAY in those rafts. How many of THOSE from, let's say 2014, were wealthy before the revolution?
Dissidents were jailed and murdered?
You admitted this was correct in your post. So there's no point in me answering it. Btw, dissenters continue to be jailed.
No food?
There's some food. But if you have too much, you better hide some of it. Or the government WILL ACTUALLY come question you.
Oh god, the 50's car bullshit, when will people quit pretending that means anything to the cuban people?
Well apparently they're allowing some new imports now. Get ready to pay $50,000 for a $15,000 car. Oh and I'm only referring to the current wealthy who are able to pay for that with their political connections.
They don't build anything?
No they don't. Their top exports are sugar and cigars. And sure they have healthcare, the best healthcare the 3rd world has to offer.
Fidel Castro Net Worth Celebrity Net Worth
- Banned
- #24
It doesn't say how they get that number, at all, keep throwing out unrelated bullshit. And yes, he is a champion of the poor, factual evidence agrees with me, compare cuba before and after the revolution, read my fucking OP, and have some honesty.Your dear leader and champion of the poor... worth over $900 million.I don't own any, sorry. Keep spewing nonsense and backing out since you have no facts for your garbage.How many Che Guevarra T-shirts do you own? Go ahead and keep on praising dictatorships from a country where you have the freedom to do so. As soon as the embargo is lifted and Cuba begins to prosper from the Capitalism of the U.S., the people there will realize what they've been missing.No facts, more anecdotal bullshit completely out of place with reality. Keep spewing bullshit. I've provided evidence for all of my factual claims, you keep spewing garbage. Truly idiotic. "3rd world healthcare" Yeah, which is why there infant mortality is extremely low, and there life expectancy is one of the highest. Compare cuba before and after the revolution, genius. The "castro" is a murderer bullshit, yeah, he led a violent revolution to overthrow a corrupt government with the support of those who were suffering, of course violence happened, jesus christ, do you have any evidence? Read my damn post, and get back to your cave.Castro is a monster?
Yes. He killed many of his own, in order to become a dictator. No dissent was allowed during his reign.
People flee on rafts made of driftwood?
No moron, people flee on rafts AS SAFE as driftwood, meaning dangerous, meaning they risk their lives. People are fleeing TO THIS DAY in those rafts. How many of THOSE from, let's say 2014, were wealthy before the revolution?
Dissidents were jailed and murdered?
You admitted this was correct in your post. So there's no point in me answering it. Btw, dissenters continue to be jailed.
No food?
There's some food. But if you have too much, you better hide some of it. Or the government WILL ACTUALLY come question you.
Oh god, the 50's car bullshit, when will people quit pretending that means anything to the cuban people?
Well apparently they're allowing some new imports now. Get ready to pay $50,000 for a $15,000 car. Oh and I'm only referring to the current wealthy who are able to pay for that with their political connections.
They don't build anything?
No they don't. Their top exports are sugar and cigars. And sure they have healthcare, the best healthcare the 3rd world has to offer.
Fidel Castro Net Worth Celebrity Net Worth
Now, no one is trying to say Cuba is a perfect place without problems, it has plenty of problems and has suffered ALOT, however, any honest person would recognize the facts about Cuba's extraordinary achievements, despite all that cuba has been through and had to deal with..
Before the 1959 revolution:
After the 1959 revolution: (Modern statistics are even better, this examines a decade ago or so)Peasants joined Castro's rebel army in droves because they had nothing to lose:
• 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
• More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
• 85% had no inside running water.
• 91% had no electricity.
• There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
• More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
• Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
• The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
• 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
Even for most city dwellers, life was not all that rosy.
• 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
• 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
• 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
• Racial discrimination was widespread.
• The public school system had deteriorated badly.
• Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
• Police brutality and torture were common.
Clearing up some more hogwash:It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.
By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;
Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.
Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.
“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”
Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.
“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”
It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.
There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.
The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.
“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”
Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.
The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.
“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.
Misconceptions about Cuba
^ From the above.
"Cubans eat only one meal a day. Wrong! This is an example of typical miami warp. Because Cuba guarantees every child up to 7 a healthy ration of milk, no matter how tough times are, the "exiles" claim 8-year-old kids aren't "allowed" to drink milk. In fact, free meals are served in schools and on the job, and Cubans get at least enough subsidized food on the ration for one meal a day at home."
"Cubans live in miserable slums.Wrong! In fact, the only slum in Cuba is Old Havana, foolishly (in my opinion) kept for the tourists. Most Cubans who once lived in shanties now live in institutional apartment buildings, just like most Spaniards. A substantial number live in old houses considered substandard by the government and scheduled to be replaced. But very few of those have dirt floors. Far more live in 50's era homes that are perfectly alright. More and more are living in new apartments and casitas that put the Russian concept Cuba accepted for too long to shame. The only dirt floored shanty towns (actually some small clusters) I have seen in Cuba are the unnecessary, non-systemic result of a minority of refuseniks who abandon good houses in their home towns to come to Havana or Santiago to hustle dollars. One of their scams is to show off their artificial poverty to foolish tourists for donations. Most small cities in Cuba are nice to beautiful places where there's nothing that looks like a slum."
"Cuba is guilty of gross human rights abuses.Wrong! Punch up human rights and Cuba on your Computer and read stories in the New York Times about how the U.N. Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross all rated Cuba's justice system as normal, i.e. no better or worse than ours. That was before the Bush administration. In the last 4 years, Cuba has been way above the U.S. in the area of human rights. While Cuba was being criticized for executing 3 terrorists and for jailing 75 people proven to be working for and in the pay of a foreign power self proclaimed to be Cuba's enemy for the purpose of sabotaging the Cuban system, the Bush administration was being criticized and protested by millions of people all over the world for killing, maiming, and crippling thousands of people for no acceptable reason, and for jailing nobody even knows how many people for no known reason. Did I make that up?"
Cubans Choose Socialism - Cubans want "socialism"
" In mid-June, 2002, over 8 million Cubans, said to be 98% of eligible voters, signed a petition to lock socialism into their constitution by adding an amendment forcefully declaring that:
Socialism, as well as the revolutionary political and social system established by this Constitution, has been forged during years of heroic resistance against aggression of every kind and economic war waged by the government of the most powerful imperialist state that has ever existed; it has demonstrated its ability to transform the nation and create an entirely new and just society, and is irrevocable: Cuba will never revert to capitalism.
20 Reasons to Support Cuba - Invent the Future
"Cuba’s literacy rate of 99.8% is among the highest in the world – higher than that of both Britain and the US. The Cuban Revolution has placed a very strong emphasis on literacy, considering it an essential component of empowering the population. Just two years after the seizure of power in 1959, the Cuban government embarked upon one of the most ambitious and wide-ranging literacy campaigns in history, sending tens of thousands of students to the countryside to form literacy brigades. Within a year, the literacy rate was increased from 70% to 96%. Additionally, over the past 50 years, thousands of Cuban literacy teachers have volunteered in countries around the world including Haiti and remote indigenous communities in Australia."
It is a small, poor island that does not exploit other countries and which suffers from a suffocating economic blockade, yet Cuba “boasts better health indicators than its exponentially richer neighbour 90 miles across the Florida straits.” Life expectancy is an impressive 79. Infant mortality is 4.83 deaths per 1,000 live births compared (better than the US figure of 6.0, and incomparably better than the average for Latin America and the Caribbean, which is around 27 deaths per 1,000 live births). Cuba has the lowest HIV prevalence rate in the Americas. There is one doctor for every 220 people in Cuba – “one of the highest ratios in the world, compared with one for every 370 in England.” Healthcare is community-based, prevention-oriented, holistic, and free.
As Kofi Annan said: “Cuba demonstrates how much nations can do with the resources they have if they focus on the right priorities – health, education, and literacy.”
Pre-revolutionary Cuba was, in effect, an apartheid society. There was widespread segregation and discrimination. Afro-Cubans were restricted to the worst jobs, the worst housing, the worst education. They suffered from differential access to parks, restaurants and beaches.
The revolution quickly started attacking racism at its roots, vowing to “straighten out what history has twisted.” In March 1959, just a couple of months after the capture of power, Fidel discussed the complex problem of racism in several speeches at mass rallies.
“In all fairness, I must say that it is not only the aristocracy who practise discrimination. There are very humble people who also discriminate. There are workers who hold the same prejudices as any wealthy person, and this is what is most absurd and sad … and should compel people to meditate on the problem. Why do we not tackle this problem radically and with love, not in a spirit of division and hate? Why not educate and destroy the prejudice of centuries, the prejudice handed down to us from such an odious institution as slavery?”
The commitment to defeating racism has brought about tremendous gains in equality and racial integration. Isaac Saney writes: “It can be argued that Cuba has done more than any other country to dismantle institutionalised racism and generate racial harmony.”
Of course, deeply ingrained prejudices and inequalities cannot be eliminated overnight, and problems remain, especially as a result of the ‘special period’ in which Cuba has had to open itself up to tourism and some limited foreign investment. Racism thrives on inequality. However, Cuba remains a shining light in terms of its commitment to racial equality.
Assata Shakur, the famous exiled Black Panther who has lived in Cuba for several decades, puts it well:
“Revolution is a process, so I was not that shocked to find sexism had not totally disappeared in Cuba, nor had racism, but that although they had not totally disappeared, the revolution was totally committed to struggling against racism and sexism in all their forms. That was and continues to be very important to me. It would be pure fantasy to think that all the ills, such as racism, classism or sexism, could be dealt with in 30 years. But what is realistic is that it is much easier and much more possible to struggle against those ills in a country which is dedicated to social justice and to eliminating injustice.”
Isaac Saney cites a very moving and revealing anecdote recounted by an elderly black man in Cuba:
“I was travelling on a very crowded bus. At a bus stop, where many people got off, a black man got a seat. A middle aged woman said in a very loud and irritated voice: ‘And it had to be a black who gets the seat.’ The response of the people on the bus was incredible. People began to criticize the woman, telling her that a revolution was fought to get rid of those stupid ideas; that the black man should be viewed as having the same rights as she had – including a seat on a crowded bus. The discussion and criticism became loud and animated. The bus driver was asked to stop the bus because the people engaging in the criticism had decided that the woman expressing racist attitudes must get off the bus. For the rest of my trip, the people apologized to the black comrade and talked about where such racist attitudes come from and what must be done to get rid of them.”
Who can imagine such a scene occurring on a bus in London, Paris or New York?
"
"
Cuba has an excellent record in terms of building gender equality. Its commitment to a non-sexist society is reflected in the fact that 43% of parliament members are female (ranking fourth in the world after Rwanda, Sweden and South Africa). 64% of university places are occupied by women. “Cuban women comprise 66% of all technicians and professionals in the country’s middle and higher levels.” Women are given 18 weeks’ maternity leave on full pay, with extended leave at 60% pay until the child is one year old.
A recent report by the US-based Center for Democracy in the Americas (by no means a non-critical source) noted: “By several measures, Cuba has achieved a high standard of gender equality, despite the country’s reputation for machismo, a Latin American variant of sexism. Save the Children ranks Cuba first among developing countries for the wellbeing of mothers and children, the report points out. The World Economic Forum places Cuba 20th out of 153 countries in health, literacy, economic status and political participation of women – ahead of all countries in Latin America except Trinidad and Tobago.”
"
"
The World Wildlife Fund called Cuba “the only country in the world to have achieved sustainable development,” measured as a combination of human development index and environmental sustainability. Cuba is a world leader in the adoption of environmentally friendly technology. “Organic urban farms in Havana supply 100% of the city’s consumption needs in fruit and vegetables” – rather different to London, where we rely on a disgustingly exploitative and ecologically disastrous cash crop system.
Cubans understand that the protection of the earth’s resources is a global project. Fidel Castro has been very vocal at international bodies for over 20 years, particularly in drawing attention to the responsibilities of the imperialist countries, whose ruthless quest for profit has caused untold damage to the planet. “With only 20% of the world’s population, [the imperialist countries] consume two-thirds of all metals and three-fourths of the energy produced worldwide. They have poisoned the seas and the rivers. They have polluted the air. They have weakened and perforated the ozone layer. They have saturated the atmosphere with gases, altering climatic conditions with the catastrophic effects we are already beginning to suffer.”
"
Considering it is an third world nation with limited natural resources, suffering under economic blockade and coping with the loss of its major trading partners in the early 90s, Cuba’s achievements in wiping out poverty are spectacular.
A Cuba Solidarity Campaign fact sheet notes:
http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/resources/DemocracyinCuba.pdf - Very important, at least read this.“Before 1959 only 35.2% of the Cuban population had running water and 63% had no WC facilities or latrines; 82.6% had no bathtub or shower and there were only 13 small reservoirs. Now 91% of the population receives sustainable access to improved drinking water. Sanitation has been a priority since the revolution and 98% of Cubans now have sustainable access to improved sanitation.
“Before 1959 just 7% of homes had electricity. Now 95.5% of Cubans have access to electricity. Solar panels and photovoltaic cells have been installed in schools and clinics in isolated areas.”
Income disparity is exceptionally low. No Cuban starves; no Cuban is homeless; no Cuban is deprived of education, healthcare or housing. There are very few countries in the world that show such unambiguous dedication to people’s basic human rights."
"Cuba provides full free medical training (including food and board) for hundreds of students from across the world, with a special emphasis on Africa, the Caribbean and Latin America. With over 10,000 current students, la Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina may well be the largest medical school in the world. The quality of the training is world class: the school is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards. The only contractual obligation for students is that, having completed their training, they return to their communities and use their skills to serve the people. Another demonstration that socialism implies a level of humanity, compassion and altruism with which capitalism simply cannot compete."
"
Cuba’s ‘Operation Miracle’ has helped restore sight to millions of people across Latin America and the Caribbean. Cuba also has a huge number of doctors working in other countries of the Global South, helping to spread Cuba’s hard-won expertise in the field of saving lives. “A third of Cuba’s 75,000 doctors, along with 10,000 other health workers, are currently working in 77 poor countries.”
In response to the Haiti earthquake disaster of 2010, Cuba immediately (within hours) sent 1,500 medical personnel to help with the relief efforts. “They worked in 20 rehabilitation centres and 20 hospitals, ran 15 operating theatres and vaccinated 400,000 people. By March 2010 they had treated 227,143 patients in total (compared to 871 by the US).” Cuba has even offered to develop a complete programme for reconstructing Haiti’s healthcare system. Emily Kirk and John Kirk note: “Essentially, they are offering to rebuild the entire health care system. It will be supported by ALBA and Brazil, and run by Cubans and Cuban-trained medical staff. This is to include hospitals, polyclinics, and medical schools. In addition, the Cuban government has offered to increase the number of Haitian students attending medical school in Cuba. This offer of medical cooperation represents an enormous degree of support for Haiti.”
Cuba provides Venezuela with 31,000 Cuban doctors and dentists and provides training for 40,000 Venezuelan medical personnel (in exchange for which, Cuba receives 100,000 barrels of oil a day – a great example of two countries cooperating on the basis of their strengths).
Let the discussion begin, I'm tired of the consistent hogwash thrown out against Cuba.
You might like this documentary on Cuba, I enjoyed it.
I would love to visit Cuba. I love Cuban music
- Thread starter
- #26
Now, no one is trying to say Cuba is a perfect place without problems, it has plenty of problems and has suffered ALOT, however, any honest person would recognize the facts about Cuba's extraordinary achievements, despite all that cuba has been through and had to deal with..
Before the 1959 revolution:
After the 1959 revolution: (Modern statistics are even better, this examines a decade ago or so)Peasants joined Castro's rebel army in droves because they had nothing to lose:
• 75% of rural dwellings were huts made from palm trees.
• More than 50% had no toilets of any kind.
• 85% had no inside running water.
• 91% had no electricity.
• There was only 1 doctor per 2,000 people in rural areas.
• More than one-third of the rural population had intestinal parasites.
• Only 4% of Cuban peasants ate meat regularly; only 1% ate fish, less than 2% eggs, 3% bread, 11% milk; none ate green vegetables.
• The average annual income among peasants was $91 (1956), less than 1/3 of the national income per person.
• 45% of the rural population was illiterate; 44% had never attended a school.
Even for most city dwellers, life was not all that rosy.
• 25% of the labor force was chronically unemployed.
• 1 million people were illiterate ( in a population of about 5.5 million).
• 27% of urban children, not to speak of 61% of rural children, were not attending school.
• Racial discrimination was widespread.
• The public school system had deteriorated badly.
• Corruption was endemic; anyone could be bought, from a Supreme Court judge to a cop.
• Police brutality and torture were common.
Clearing up some more hogwash:It has reduced its infant mortality rate from 11 per 1,000 births in 1990 to seven in 1999, which places it firmly in the ranks of the western industrialised nations. It now stands at six, according to Jo Ritzen, the Bank’s Vice President for Development Policy, who visited Cuba privately several months ago to see for himself.
By comparison, the infant mortality rate for Argentina stood at 18 in 1999;
Chile’s was down to ten; and Costa Rica, at 12. For the entire Latin American and Caribbean region as a whole, the average was 30 in 1999.
Similarly, the mortality rate for children under the age of five in Cuba has fallen from 13 to eight per thousand over the decade. That figure is 50% lower than the rate in Chile, the Latin American country closest to Cuba’s achievement. For the region as a whole, the average was 38 in 1999.
“Six for every 1,000 in infant mortality - the same level as Spain - is just unbelievable,” according to Ritzen, a former education minister in the Netherlands. “You observe it, and so you see that Cuba has done exceedingly well in the human development area.”
Indeed, in Ritzen’s own field, the figures tell much the same story. Net primary enrolment for both girls and boys reached 100% in 1997, up from 92% in 1990. That was as high as most developed nations - higher even than the US rate and well above 80-90% rates achieved by the most advanced Latin American countries.
“Even in education performance, Cuba’s is very much in tune with the developed world, and much higher than schools in, say, Argentina, Brazil, or Chile.”
It is no wonder, in some ways. Public spending on education in Cuba amounts to about 6.7% of gross national income, twice the proportion in other Latin American and Caribbean countries and even Singapore.
There were 12 primary school pupils for every Cuban teacher in 1997, a ratio that ranked with Sweden, rather than any other developing country. The Latin American and East Asian average was twice as high at 25 to one.
The average youth (age 15-24) illiteracy rate in Latin America and the Caribbean stands at 7%. In Cuba, the rate is zero. In Latin America, where the average is 7%, only Uruguay approaches that achievement, with one percent youth illiteracy.
“Cuba managed to reduce illiteracy from 40% to zero within ten years,” said Ritzen. “If Cuba shows that it is possible, it shifts the burden of proof to those who say it’s not possible.”
Similarly, Cuba devoted 9.1% of its gross domestic product (GDP) during the 1990s to health care, roughly equivalent to Canada’s rate. Its ratio of 5.3 doctors per 1,000 people was the highest in the world.
The question that these statistics pose, of course, is whether the Cuban experience can be replicated. The answer given here is probably not.
“What does it, is the incredible dedication,” according to Wayne Smith, who was head of the US Interests Section in Havana in the late 1970s and early 1980s and has travelled to the island many times since.
Misconceptions about Cuba
^ From the above.
"Cubans eat only one meal a day. Wrong! This is an example of typical miami warp. Because Cuba guarantees every child up to 7 a healthy ration of milk, no matter how tough times are, the "exiles" claim 8-year-old kids aren't "allowed" to drink milk. In fact, free meals are served in schools and on the job, and Cubans get at least enough subsidized food on the ration for one meal a day at home."
"Cubans live in miserable slums.Wrong! In fact, the only slum in Cuba is Old Havana, foolishly (in my opinion) kept for the tourists. Most Cubans who once lived in shanties now live in institutional apartment buildings, just like most Spaniards. A substantial number live in old houses considered substandard by the government and scheduled to be replaced. But very few of those have dirt floors. Far more live in 50's era homes that are perfectly alright. More and more are living in new apartments and casitas that put the Russian concept Cuba accepted for too long to shame. The only dirt floored shanty towns (actually some small clusters) I have seen in Cuba are the unnecessary, non-systemic result of a minority of refuseniks who abandon good houses in their home towns to come to Havana or Santiago to hustle dollars. One of their scams is to show off their artificial poverty to foolish tourists for donations. Most small cities in Cuba are nice to beautiful places where there's nothing that looks like a slum."
"Cuba is guilty of gross human rights abuses.Wrong! Punch up human rights and Cuba on your Computer and read stories in the New York Times about how the U.N. Human Rights Commission, Amnesty International, and the Red Cross all rated Cuba's justice system as normal, i.e. no better or worse than ours. That was before the Bush administration. In the last 4 years, Cuba has been way above the U.S. in the area of human rights. While Cuba was being criticized for executing 3 terrorists and for jailing 75 people proven to be working for and in the pay of a foreign power self proclaimed to be Cuba's enemy for the purpose of sabotaging the Cuban system, the Bush administration was being criticized and protested by millions of people all over the world for killing, maiming, and crippling thousands of people for no acceptable reason, and for jailing nobody even knows how many people for no known reason. Did I make that up?"
Cubans Choose Socialism - Cubans want "socialism"
" In mid-June, 2002, over 8 million Cubans, said to be 98% of eligible voters, signed a petition to lock socialism into their constitution by adding an amendment forcefully declaring that:
Socialism, as well as the revolutionary political and social system established by this Constitution, has been forged during years of heroic resistance against aggression of every kind and economic war waged by the government of the most powerful imperialist state that has ever existed; it has demonstrated its ability to transform the nation and create an entirely new and just society, and is irrevocable: Cuba will never revert to capitalism.
20 Reasons to Support Cuba - Invent the Future
"Cuba’s literacy rate of 99.8% is among the highest in the world – higher than that of both Britain and the US. The Cuban Revolution has placed a very strong emphasis on literacy, considering it an essential component of empowering the population. Just two years after the seizure of power in 1959, the Cuban government embarked upon one of the most ambitious and wide-ranging literacy campaigns in history, sending tens of thousands of students to the countryside to form literacy brigades. Within a year, the literacy rate was increased from 70% to 96%. Additionally, over the past 50 years, thousands of Cuban literacy teachers have volunteered in countries around the world including Haiti and remote indigenous communities in Australia."
It is a small, poor island that does not exploit other countries and which suffers from a suffocating economic blockade, yet Cuba “boasts better health indicators than its exponentially richer neighbour 90 miles across the Florida straits.” Life expectancy is an impressive 79. Infant mortality is 4.83 deaths per 1,000 live births compared (better than the US figure of 6.0, and incomparably better than the average for Latin America and the Caribbean, which is around 27 deaths per 1,000 live births). Cuba has the lowest HIV prevalence rate in the Americas. There is one doctor for every 220 people in Cuba – “one of the highest ratios in the world, compared with one for every 370 in England.” Healthcare is community-based, prevention-oriented, holistic, and free.
As Kofi Annan said: “Cuba demonstrates how much nations can do with the resources they have if they focus on the right priorities – health, education, and literacy.”
Pre-revolutionary Cuba was, in effect, an apartheid society. There was widespread segregation and discrimination. Afro-Cubans were restricted to the worst jobs, the worst housing, the worst education. They suffered from differential access to parks, restaurants and beaches.
The revolution quickly started attacking racism at its roots, vowing to “straighten out what history has twisted.” In March 1959, just a couple of months after the capture of power, Fidel discussed the complex problem of racism in several speeches at mass rallies.
“In all fairness, I must say that it is not only the aristocracy who practise discrimination. There are very humble people who also discriminate. There are workers who hold the same prejudices as any wealthy person, and this is what is most absurd and sad … and should compel people to meditate on the problem. Why do we not tackle this problem radically and with love, not in a spirit of division and hate? Why not educate and destroy the prejudice of centuries, the prejudice handed down to us from such an odious institution as slavery?”
The commitment to defeating racism has brought about tremendous gains in equality and racial integration. Isaac Saney writes: “It can be argued that Cuba has done more than any other country to dismantle institutionalised racism and generate racial harmony.”
Of course, deeply ingrained prejudices and inequalities cannot be eliminated overnight, and problems remain, especially as a result of the ‘special period’ in which Cuba has had to open itself up to tourism and some limited foreign investment. Racism thrives on inequality. However, Cuba remains a shining light in terms of its commitment to racial equality.
Assata Shakur, the famous exiled Black Panther who has lived in Cuba for several decades, puts it well:
“Revolution is a process, so I was not that shocked to find sexism had not totally disappeared in Cuba, nor had racism, but that although they had not totally disappeared, the revolution was totally committed to struggling against racism and sexism in all their forms. That was and continues to be very important to me. It would be pure fantasy to think that all the ills, such as racism, classism or sexism, could be dealt with in 30 years. But what is realistic is that it is much easier and much more possible to struggle against those ills in a country which is dedicated to social justice and to eliminating injustice.”
Isaac Saney cites a very moving and revealing anecdote recounted by an elderly black man in Cuba:
“I was travelling on a very crowded bus. At a bus stop, where many people got off, a black man got a seat. A middle aged woman said in a very loud and irritated voice: ‘And it had to be a black who gets the seat.’ The response of the people on the bus was incredible. People began to criticize the woman, telling her that a revolution was fought to get rid of those stupid ideas; that the black man should be viewed as having the same rights as she had – including a seat on a crowded bus. The discussion and criticism became loud and animated. The bus driver was asked to stop the bus because the people engaging in the criticism had decided that the woman expressing racist attitudes must get off the bus. For the rest of my trip, the people apologized to the black comrade and talked about where such racist attitudes come from and what must be done to get rid of them.”
Who can imagine such a scene occurring on a bus in London, Paris or New York?
"
"
Cuba has an excellent record in terms of building gender equality. Its commitment to a non-sexist society is reflected in the fact that 43% of parliament members are female (ranking fourth in the world after Rwanda, Sweden and South Africa). 64% of university places are occupied by women. “Cuban women comprise 66% of all technicians and professionals in the country’s middle and higher levels.” Women are given 18 weeks’ maternity leave on full pay, with extended leave at 60% pay until the child is one year old.
A recent report by the US-based Center for Democracy in the Americas (by no means a non-critical source) noted: “By several measures, Cuba has achieved a high standard of gender equality, despite the country’s reputation for machismo, a Latin American variant of sexism. Save the Children ranks Cuba first among developing countries for the wellbeing of mothers and children, the report points out. The World Economic Forum places Cuba 20th out of 153 countries in health, literacy, economic status and political participation of women – ahead of all countries in Latin America except Trinidad and Tobago.”
"
"
The World Wildlife Fund called Cuba “the only country in the world to have achieved sustainable development,” measured as a combination of human development index and environmental sustainability. Cuba is a world leader in the adoption of environmentally friendly technology. “Organic urban farms in Havana supply 100% of the city’s consumption needs in fruit and vegetables” – rather different to London, where we rely on a disgustingly exploitative and ecologically disastrous cash crop system.
Cubans understand that the protection of the earth’s resources is a global project. Fidel Castro has been very vocal at international bodies for over 20 years, particularly in drawing attention to the responsibilities of the imperialist countries, whose ruthless quest for profit has caused untold damage to the planet. “With only 20% of the world’s population, [the imperialist countries] consume two-thirds of all metals and three-fourths of the energy produced worldwide. They have poisoned the seas and the rivers. They have polluted the air. They have weakened and perforated the ozone layer. They have saturated the atmosphere with gases, altering climatic conditions with the catastrophic effects we are already beginning to suffer.”
"
Considering it is an third world nation with limited natural resources, suffering under economic blockade and coping with the loss of its major trading partners in the early 90s, Cuba’s achievements in wiping out poverty are spectacular.
A Cuba Solidarity Campaign fact sheet notes:
http://www.cuba-solidarity.org.uk/resources/DemocracyinCuba.pdf - Very important, at least read this.“Before 1959 only 35.2% of the Cuban population had running water and 63% had no WC facilities or latrines; 82.6% had no bathtub or shower and there were only 13 small reservoirs. Now 91% of the population receives sustainable access to improved drinking water. Sanitation has been a priority since the revolution and 98% of Cubans now have sustainable access to improved sanitation.
“Before 1959 just 7% of homes had electricity. Now 95.5% of Cubans have access to electricity. Solar panels and photovoltaic cells have been installed in schools and clinics in isolated areas.”
Income disparity is exceptionally low. No Cuban starves; no Cuban is homeless; no Cuban is deprived of education, healthcare or housing. There are very few countries in the world that show such unambiguous dedication to people’s basic human rights."
"Cuba provides full free medical training (including food and board) for hundreds of students from across the world, with a special emphasis on Africa, the Caribbean and Latin America. With over 10,000 current students, la Escuela Latinoamericana de Medicina may well be the largest medical school in the world. The quality of the training is world class: the school is fully accredited by the Medical Board of California, which has the strictest US standards. The only contractual obligation for students is that, having completed their training, they return to their communities and use their skills to serve the people. Another demonstration that socialism implies a level of humanity, compassion and altruism with which capitalism simply cannot compete."
"
Cuba’s ‘Operation Miracle’ has helped restore sight to millions of people across Latin America and the Caribbean. Cuba also has a huge number of doctors working in other countries of the Global South, helping to spread Cuba’s hard-won expertise in the field of saving lives. “A third of Cuba’s 75,000 doctors, along with 10,000 other health workers, are currently working in 77 poor countries.”
In response to the Haiti earthquake disaster of 2010, Cuba immediately (within hours) sent 1,500 medical personnel to help with the relief efforts. “They worked in 20 rehabilitation centres and 20 hospitals, ran 15 operating theatres and vaccinated 400,000 people. By March 2010 they had treated 227,143 patients in total (compared to 871 by the US).” Cuba has even offered to develop a complete programme for reconstructing Haiti’s healthcare system. Emily Kirk and John Kirk note: “Essentially, they are offering to rebuild the entire health care system. It will be supported by ALBA and Brazil, and run by Cubans and Cuban-trained medical staff. This is to include hospitals, polyclinics, and medical schools. In addition, the Cuban government has offered to increase the number of Haitian students attending medical school in Cuba. This offer of medical cooperation represents an enormous degree of support for Haiti.”
Cuba provides Venezuela with 31,000 Cuban doctors and dentists and provides training for 40,000 Venezuelan medical personnel (in exchange for which, Cuba receives 100,000 barrels of oil a day – a great example of two countries cooperating on the basis of their strengths).
Let the discussion begin, I'm tired of the consistent hogwash thrown out against Cuba.
You might like this documentary on Cuba, I enjoyed it.
I would love to visit Cuba. I love Cuban music
Thanks for not spewing useless bullshit
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Well, the united states is disgusting..Yeah, unfortunately :/Interesting, haven't heard that, but it doesn't surprise me, the USSR was a joke after stalin got into power.His words where that "we thought that the Soviet Union was willing to help us out of brotherly love but what we found out was that they just wanted another sugar plantation". The point he was making was that the Soviet Union was using them and had no intention of helping them in the ways that they needed at the time.
The USSR and the US have always used other countries. Always. They played a bigger game and on a much more grand scale.
It's that empire thing. It was Britain v Russia before the US.
What country do you live in, asshole?
- Thread starter
- #28
What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.Well, the united states is disgusting..Yeah, unfortunately :/Interesting, haven't heard that, but it doesn't surprise me, the USSR was a joke after stalin got into power.
The USSR and the US have always used other countries. Always. They played a bigger game and on a much more grand scale.
It's that empire thing. It was Britain v Russia before the US.
What country do you live in, asshole?
- Aug 16, 2011
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What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.Well, the united states is disgusting..Yeah, unfortunately :/The USSR and the US have always used other countries. Always. They played a bigger game and on a much more grand scale.
It's that empire thing. It was Britain v Russia before the US.
What country do you live in, asshole?
I asked you a question, asshole.
- Thread starter
- #30
America, don't see why it matters.What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.Well, the united states is disgusting..Yeah, unfortunately :/
It's that empire thing. It was Britain v Russia before the US.
What country do you live in, asshole?
I asked you a question, asshole.
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America, don't see why it matters.What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.Well, the united states is disgusting..It's that empire thing. It was Britain v Russia before the US.
What country do you live in, asshole?
I asked you a question, asshole.
It matters because you are a shameless, worthless little hypocrite piece of shit. Find the courage of your convictions and get the fuck out of my GREAT country, douche.
- Thread starter
- #32
Yeah, your great country that is the last one to provide universal healthcare, that has millions uninsured, that leads the developed world in child poverty, that has a government that doesn't support higher education, that has students in crippling debt with rising college prices, that has stagnant wages while the cost of living increases, with a corrupt political system where the rich get off with tax breaks, corporations are even getting away without paying any taxes at all, your great country that ranks behind FUCKING CUBA in life expectancy, yeah, that's right, get over it. The country that leads in childhood obesity, a country that has overthrown democratically elected presidents to support corporate interests, a country that is a pitiful excuse and should be viewed more critically.America, don't see why it matters.What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.Well, the united states is disgusting..
What country do you live in, asshole?
I asked you a question, asshole.
It matters because you are a shameless, worthless little hypocrite piece of shit. Find the courage of your convictions and get the fuck out of my GREAT country, douche.
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Yeah, your great country...America, don't see why it matters.What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.What country do you live in, asshole?
I asked you a question, asshole.
It matters because you are a shameless, worthless little hypocrite piece of shit. Find the courage of your convictions and get the fuck out of my GREAT country, douche.
Yes, it is great. Why are you still here, you shameless, hollow excuse for a human being? Are you a complete coward?
- Thread starter
- #34
Why I'm here? I don't have citizenship for other countries.Yeah, your great country...America, don't see why it matters.What, I can't think america sucks? It does, compared to almost any industrialized country.
I asked you a question, asshole.
It matters because you are a shameless, worthless little hypocrite piece of shit. Find the courage of your convictions and get the fuck out of my GREAT country, douche.
Yes, it is great. Why are you still here, you shameless, hollow excuse for a human being? Are you a complete coward?
- Aug 16, 2011
- 128,081
- 24,169
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- Aug 16, 2011
- 128,081
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Why I'm here? I don't have citizenship for other countries.Yeah, your great country...America, don't see why it matters.I asked you a question, asshole.
It matters because you are a shameless, worthless little hypocrite piece of shit. Find the courage of your convictions and get the fuck out of my GREAT country, douche.
Yes, it is great. Why are you still here, you shameless, hollow excuse for a human being? Are you a complete coward?
Spineless hypocrite pussy.
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t has a government that doesn't support higher educatio....
QS World University Rankings 2014 15 Top Universities
- Aug 16, 2011
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a country that has overthrown democratically elected.....
A country that has saved THE WORLD more than once.
Cuba's freaking achievements? Russia invested a lot of capital in the backward banana republik for about 30 years until it went under itself. Thank the Russians for the junk toilets guaranteed ration for every family. Cubanos left their Russian made toilets and guaranteed rations and died by the hundreds trying to reach the 90 miles to freedom in the U.S. Does that tell you anything? Cubans learned to live with the fear of being rounded up by insane agents of the insane government if they tried to make a capitalist buck on the side or making a casual remark criticizing the regime. The threat of homosexuality has been all but eliminated by executions and incarceration. Is that what the left sees as a new paradise in the US of A?
- Thread starter
- #40
Lol? Are you fucking kidding me? That has nothing to do with results.
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