Let's put an end to this nonsense once & for all

[JakeStarkey]

Sure, if a con has paid his time, he should be able to vote.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

And I'm not specifically focusing on personality types, just those who have seemed to make a life out of breaking the law. Well, that might be a personality type... or it might just be someone who just doesn't care.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

 

[Billy000]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

Obviously the answer is "no" because it's a stupid thing to generalize. Of course I'm sure many ex-cons do think irrationally. That's why the recidivism rate is so high.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

 

[Dale Smith]

The VAST majority of people in prison are there for victimless crimes and are simply there for violating an act, statute or code passed by this corporate entity that isn't even a legitimate "gubermint". The crooks in charge are passing judgement on others...it's a fucking joke in search of a punchline. People in jail for drugs more than likely got them because the CIA is flying them into the country. They have fucked the monetary system up so bad that they couldn't fill up the ATMs with actual paper without the cash only business that is the drug trade. I wouldn't sign up to vote in one of their crooked elections even at gunpoint. ...you see, you have to check the box that says you are a "U.S citizen" which means you are giving up your right to being an American to that of being a subject/employee of USA.INC whose headquarters are in Washington, D.C.....they can kiss my hairy ass 8 ways to Sunday. I pledge NO loyalty to these parasitic crooks, liar and thieves.

That is complete horseshit the media has fed you hook line & sinker.

Trust me, I know. Been there, done that. There are a FEW who don't belong there or fell through the cracks but by & large most of them deserve their time. And that meme about pot users going to prison is the biggest crock of shit ever sold on the subject.

In federal prison were the ones are doing hard time? I agree...but the vast majority did not harm anyone.

It isn't about "harm"

It's about following the laws of the nation.

We don't have laws, SIR.....we have acts, statutes and codes that are designed to bring in revenue to this massive composite corporate "gubermint". We are under admiralty law, not Common Law. We were declared "enemies of the state" during the Chapter 11 bankruptcy of 1933 thanks to that sorry bastard FDR and thus the gold confiscation that stole REAL money from the American people....fuck, I really need to step back from the keyboard and just get my ass to bed because every fucking time I try to explain what was done to us and the system we are actually under just falls on deaf ears and I get pissed off before I try to go to sleep.

Here is the skinny....this is NOT a legitimate government, it is a corporate entity that provides the 19 essential "government" services in a for profit venture. They skim money off of the top and invest it while giving US their credit card bill for their expenses while keeping the profits. That is the truth and that is the reality that we are facing. People need to wake the fuck up.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

Prison is about punishment, not rehabilitation.

 

[HUGGY]

The VAST majority of people in prison are there for victimless crimes and are simply there for violating an act, statute or code passed by this corporate entity that isn't even a legitimate "gubermint". The crooks in charge are passing judgement on others...it's a fucking joke in search of a punchline. People in jail for drugs more than likely got them because the CIA is flying them into the country. They have fucked the monetary system up so bad that they couldn't fill up the ATMs with actual paper without the cash only business that is the drug trade. I wouldn't sign up to vote in one of their crooked elections even at gunpoint. ...you see, you have to check the box that says you are a "U.S citizen" which means you are giving up your right to being an American to that of being a subject/employee of USA.INC whose headquarters are in Washington, D.C.....they can kiss my hairy ass 8 ways to Sunday. I pledge NO loyalty to these parasitic crooks, liar and thieves.

That is complete horseshit the media has fed you hook line & sinker.

Trust me, I know. Been there, done that. There are a FEW who don't belong there or fell through the cracks but by & large most of them deserve their time. And that meme about pot users going to prison is the biggest crock of shit ever sold on the subject.

In federal prison were the ones are doing hard time? I agree...but the vast majority did not harm anyone.

It isn't about "harm"

It's about following the laws of the nation.

Screw it.

If they insist you remain a "criminal" just become a better one.

Don't torture yourself seeking their approval. Torture someone else and find a way to turn that into a profit.

You can't buck the system. Don't bother trying. The true difference between a criminal or a "sociopath" is that you were caught and they were not.

You are obviously more intelligent than the average incarcerated person. It shouldn't be that hard to make a living without depending on the approval of the hypocrites that want to keep you down.

I would suggest that you use their own system against them for starters.

Good luck.

 

[Dale Smith]

Oh, one more thing, convicted felons should be able to vote and procure a firearm. If they paid their debt with society, then they are "square with the house"....they paid their debt.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all.

And while I don't have any experience with being in prison myself, that's essentially just because I never got caught. I did plenty of really stupid shit when I was younger.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

The government doesn't. They care about the illusion of safety that they are selling to you. The rest of us pay the price for the illusion. Not to say I didn't belong there as I did, I needed the course correction but I was lucky to have a support system when I got out. Most don't have that.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

The way to lower the recidivism rates is to make it easier for felons to become functioning members of society.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

Prison is about punishment, not rehabilitation.

I always thought punishment was a form of rehabilitation. Shows how little I know.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

The government doesn't. They care about the illusion of safety that they are selling to you. The rest of us pay the price for the illusion. Not to say I didn't belong there as I did, I needed the course correction but I was lucky to have a support system when I got out. Most don't have that.

I'm glad you're back among the law-abiding, Gramps.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

You're asking the wrong person. With all do respect to doc I actually have first hand experience on this matter.

The first thing I will correct you on is your illusion of "rehabilitation"

I was 16 years old and sent to a maximum security prison. There was no rehabilitation, only hard time. Once in the system there is nothing to differentiate a 16 year old child who had no parental supervision from the guy who murdered & raped the girl next door. NOTHING
There is a routine that starts everyday around 5 am and ends at 6 pm and it is the same for every convict.

I see, so no rehabilitation whatsoever. Seems like the government doesn't care....

The government doesn't. They care about the illusion of safety that they are selling to you. The rest of us pay the price for the illusion. Not to say I didn't belong there as I did, I needed the course correction but I was lucky to have a support system when I got out. Most don't have that.

I'm glad you're back among the law-abiding, Gramps.

Thank you

 

[TemplarKormac]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

The way to lower the recidivism rates is to make it easier for felons to become functioning members of society.

Oh, I get it now. The best way for that to happen is to eliminate the bias against felons in the workplace, you know, against those who committed burglary, theft, various other misdemeanors... things like that. You know, give direction to those who seem lost in the world.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Barring neurological issues, I disagree. Recidivism isn't caused by a personality type, it's caused by many, many factors - including the bias against felons in terms of becoming functioning members of society.

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

The way to lower the recidivism rates is to make it easier for felons to become functioning members of society.

Oh, I get it now. The best way for that to happen is to eliminate the bias against felons in the workplace, you know, against those who committed burglary, theft, various other misdemeanors... things like that. You know, give direction to those who seem lost in the world.

I don't know what the "best way" to make it easier for felons to return to society is. There's no way to "eliminate" the bias.

I think taking that checkbox off job applications would be a step in the right direction, though.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't know what the "best way" to make it easier for felons to return to society is. There's no way to "eliminate" the bias.

I think taking that checkbox off job applications would be a step in the right direction, though.

Perhaps "eliminate" was to strong a word. Perhaps we could "mitigate" it instead.