Zone1 Lawsuit alleges Harvard gives preferential treatment to legacy admissions, who are ‘overwhelmingly’ White

[EvilCat Breath]

Apparently you do care, and you're really going to care in a few years when whites are the minority.

Nope. I don't care whether the run of the mill black, lives, dies, gets run over by an ice cream truck. Whites aren’t going to be the minority in a good many years. When that day comes, blacks which are 12% of the population NOW, will have killed and aborted themselves down to 5%. The Chinese will have taken what the Mexicans haven't killed and made slaves out of them - again. The natural state of the black man.

 

[IM2]

Nope. I don't care whether the run of the mill black, lives, dies, gets run over by an ice cream truck. Whites aren’t going to be the minority in a good many years. When that day comes, blacks which are 12% of the population NOW, will have killed and aborted themselves down to 5%. The Chinese will have taken what the Mexicans haven't killed and made slaves out of them - again. The natural state of the black man.

Whites are going to be a minority in 10-15 years. You talk about a natural state and your commentary shows that you lack education. The natural state is that those who oppress, become the oppressed. That's what's going to happen. That is the natural state.

 

[Lisa558]

It's amazing that there is no set of circumstances in your world apparently in which there are

who also are Black.

I never said that. I said that white valedictorians with near-perfect SATs are rejected in favor of B+ black students with far worse SATs - and solely for reasons of race. Now that will stop.

 

[Lisa558]

Whites are going to be a minority in 10-15 years. You talk about a natural state and your commentary shows that you lack education. The natural state is that those who oppress, become the oppressed. That's what's going to happen. That is the natural state.

First, whites will NOT be a minority in 10 - 15 years.

Second, why would that be a good thing?

 

[Lisa558]

So.... blacks don't think their kids are worth paying for a legacy spot. Thanks for clearing that up.

Also, the black legacies at Harvard are likely legacies in the first place because Daddy got in with Affirmative Action.

 

[The5thHorseman]

I never said that. I said that white valedictorians with near-perfect SATs are rejected in favor of B+ black students with far worse SATs - and solely for reasons of race. Now that will stop.

Did you even attend college?

Was it remotely "selective"?

It's not purely about "the metrics"...if it were, the 40,000 kids who represent the top 1% in the SATs would take all the slots...12,000 to the Ivys, the rest distributed among other highly selective colleges.

But no administration wants a community like that....unless it is Cal Tech or MIT.

 

[JoeB131]

What about from the other side? What about the students, such as the Asian with a 1560 SAT and a perfect GPA, who was rejected from all IVYs because he was of the “undesired” race - a factor that has since been ruled unconstitutional? What about all the middle-class whites who were brilliant students, also rejected because the IVY wanted more blacks? And Lord knows that they rejected amazing Jewish students because we sure don’t need no more Jews!

Why is it fair that top students - valedictorians, perfect GPAs, and 1560+ SAT scores - be punished under rules that are unconstitutional?

Lisa, please, you don't care about "constituitionality", you are upset that black people are getting something you don't think they deserve.

Why is if fair that top students - valedictorians, perfect GPAs and 1560+ GPA sores - be punished because some rich person got in ahead of them because of a legacy or because Daddy bought a new lecture hall?

 

[Coyote]

But they’re not the “undesirable” race.*That’s because thanks to the Supreme Court, there is no undesirable OR desirable race. It’s no longer a factor.

There is still an “undesirable” race when only one race is singled out as non-meritorious in admissions. Race is still a factor in legacy admissions which heavily favors Whites over Asians with better test scores.

Thus, they are now regular individuals who were accepted over BETTER qualified students for an UNCONSTITUTIONAL reason. Why should the better students be punished for having been viewed as the “undesirable” race when it’s illegal to do that?

Since admissions are not based on test scores and GPA alone, and still aren’t, you don’t know who is or is not more qualified. You are just assuming one oS not because of race.

Why should a student who applied in good faith and was accepted, now have it revoked because of race?

Legacies are not based on race.

Legacies are the legacy of a race based system set up to reduce the number of non-WASP admissions. Nothing in it has changed. The majority of those admits are White. It is not based on merit.

*See, that’s the problem. You are interpreting the decision not to PRIORITIZE blacks meaning they are now being treated as “undesirable.” Nope, all it means is that blacks and whites will be viewed equally, with race not a factor at all.

No, I was interpreting (or misinterpreting) a comment made in this thread that those who were admitted using race as a factor should be punished by having their admission revoked.

 

[JoeB131]

In what way is benefitting any Black people who had previously been denied opportunities a problem?

And being poor doesn't mean being mentally deficient. A poor Black student who is admitted would have the same access to scholarships, grants and loans that anyone else would, correct? How is that a bad thing? And how does this not help that student coming from poverty?

Actually, there can be a direct correlation drawn between poverty and low test scores/performance, but that wasn't my pont.

If you are a black couple living in the suburbs with nice professional jobs, why should your kid get affirmative action over his white classmate who has the same economic circumstances and got better grades or GPA? Why should he get preferential treatment over an Asian Kid whose family has been here for only a couple of generations?

Our government does not agree:

The Office of Minority and Women’s Business Enterprises (OMWBE) certifies small businesses owned and controlled by minority, women, and socially and economically disadvantaged persons. OMWBE certifies business in order to increase contracting opportunities for certified businesses with state and local governments.

Which is messed up, really. The government should be seeking the best contractor with the lowest price. That's MY money they are spending there.

My point was women and Asians no longer need or even want affirmative action. Oh, sure, they'll take advantage of a program that's there. Heck, I'll take advantage of a veteran's benefit, even though all I really did in the service was push paperwork around, just like I'm doing now.

 

[hadit]

It sounds like I thought that your question was too stupid for me to waste time answering.

So stupid that you attempted to answer without answering. Just be honest, you're okay with legacy admissions if they benefit black students, but not if they benefit white students.

 

[JoeB131]

You're completely wrong. White conservative women who marry white men may believe they don't need AA but not women in general. Something like 70 percent of the Asians in America support AA. And by the way you're talking, you really don't know what it is.

You can take your white ... laugh test somewhere because there are countless unqualified white men working jobs they would not have if not for the color of their skin. I can point to a whole lot of unqualified whites I worked with over my time working. So your argument has no merit and it won't have any merit until you recognize the long history of white affirmative action in this country.

Let's get one thing straight. Women are over affirmative action. Have been for some time.

Affirmative Action Is Great For White Women. So Why Do They Hate It? – IMDiversity

imdiversity.com

Data from the 2014 Cooperative Congressional Election Study — an annual large-scale academic survey that aims to track political attitudes — show that 66 percent of young white people between 17 and 34 describe themselves as “somewhat opposed” or “strongly opposed” to affirmative action policies in employment and admissions. Among young white women, 67 percent are against affirmative action.


As for Asian-Americans, your number is slightly misleading.

Affirmative misinformation: What Asian Americans really think of affirmative action

According to polling group AAPI Data, 69 percent of Asian Americans supposedly favor race-based college admissions. The claim has gone viral, with some in the media claiming that most Asian America…

thehill.com

However, a closer look reveals that the AAPI Data’s survey questions intentionally incline respondents to express support for the controversial admissions policy, revealing more about the question Asian Americans were asked than the values they hold. The reality is that many Asian Americans are not as enthusiastic about racial preferences as AAPI Data and much of the media would like us to believe.

In 2018 and 2016, however, AAPI Data included a second question about race-based college admissions on the AAVS, which read: “In general, do you think affirmative action programs designed to increase the number of Black and minority students on college campuses are a good thing or a bad thing?” The answers to that question tell an entirely different story.

In 2018, support for affirmative action among Asian Americans as a whole was 8 percentage points lower (58 percent) in response to the “increase the number” question than in response to its “better access” question (66 percent). In 2016, there was a 12 percentage-point gap — 64 percent support on the “better access” question but only 52 percent on the “increase the number” question. Moreover, in 2016, nearly two-thirds of Chinese American participants responded to the “increase the number” question by saying affirmative action is a “bad thing,” an instance of majority disapproval of the policy.

I will be the first one to admit there is lots of white privilege in this country by virtue of the fact that whites already hold most of the positions of power. And... so what?

As I said, when my Grandfather came here in 1925, he faced so much anti-German hostility that he changed the way he pronounced his name so people wouldn't think he was German. (I don't know who he thought he was fooling, his German accent was still pretty thick after he had been here 40 years). My dad wasn't entirely trusted by the Army because he was born in Germany, so they made him a medic.

But you know what, I've seen a whole bunch of Asians do really well because of very hard work, only one generation off the boat. One of my friends got here because she married an American service member. Today, she's a professional who supports their entire family.

Key point. Affirmative Action is done. So what's your back up plan? If it's reasonable, I'll be with you all the way. If it isn't... hate to say this, no skin off my nose, I've got everything I wanted.

 

[Lisa558]

Did you even attend college?

Of course.

Was it remotely "selective"?

Of course.

It's not purely about "the metrics"...if it were, the 40,000 kids who represent the top 1% in the SATs would take all the slots...12,000 to the Ivys, the rest distributed among other highly selective colleges.

But no administration wants a community like that....unless it is Cal Tech or MIT.

The problem comes about when these top schools have different metrics for different races. It’s unconstitutional. Harvard, for example, sent out recruitment letters to blacks with SATs as low as 1150, but limited the letters they sent to Asians to around 1400 SAT.

 

[JoeB131]

First, whites will NOT be a minority in 10 - 15 years.

Second, why would that be a good thing?

Well, for one thing, they won't be able to foist bad Republican Presidents on us who screw everything up, so that will be a good thing.

 

[JoeB131]

The problem comes about when these top schools have different metrics for different races. It’s unconstitutional. Harvard, for example, sent out recruitment letters to blacks with SATs as low as 1150, but limited the letters they sent to Asians to around 1400 SAT.

So they discard the SAT altogether, like hundreds of colleges have already done.

Problem solved.

you didn't think this through at all, did you?

 

[Coyote]

And while white women who have been the ones benefitting the most from AA you didn't see, read or hear blacks or anybody else stereotyping white women as dumb unqualified people who only were admitted because they have vaginas. Unlike the white female sellouts, or should I call them Stepfords, we recognize that women were treated unfairly too. And still are. You don't see us telling white women that the law of Coverture was in the past so why don't you move on. As a black man, I don't deny the ongoing systemic sexism in this society just because "I don't see it," or "it doesn't happen to me," or "none of the people I know do it," or "I just try to treat every woman as an idividual," and all the other associated garbage I get from the Stepfords in here.

Exactly. And that is why I see much of the opposition here as being motivated more by (unacknowledged) racism than a genuine desire to level the playing field through a race blind policy.

Studies have shown that White women benefited the most AA. Yet, as you note, none of the denigrating assumptions are being brought up such as:
They wouldn’t have got in if they weren’t female.
They stole slots from better qualified, hardworking, brilliant impoverished males.
A female who gets accepted accepted accepted into all 8 Ivy League schools is academically suspect.
Women who are hired are more likely to be less qualified.

I DO think there are legit arguments for arguing for the removal of race (or gender or..etc) as an explicit factor in admissions. BUT if you are going about it by using canards (that target only one race) then motives become very questionable.

It is also impossible to entirely untangle race/gender/ethnicity/disability from what made a person who he is today, particularly if they are a minority. We are still not a race/ethnic blind society and while we are far better than we were, those factors continue to define a person. You can’t cancel out these factors when an applicant is writing his admissions essay.

And then…there is a hidden assumption that diversity is bad and seeking a diverse student body automatically means unqualified.

 

[Lisa558]

There is still an “undesirable” race when only one race is singled out as non-meritorious in admissions. Race is still a factor in legacy admissions which heavily favors Whites over Asians with better test scores.



Since admissions are not based on test scores and GPA alone, and still aren’t, you don’t know who is or is not more qualified. You are just assuming one oS not because of race.

Why should a student who applied in good faith and was accepted, now have it revoked because of race?



Legacies are the legacy of a race based system set up to reduce the number of non-WASP admissions. Nothing in it has changed. The majority of those admits are White. It is not based on merit.


No, I was interpreting (or misinterpreting) a comment made in this thread that those who were admitted using race as a factor should be punished by having their admission revoked.

Again, you are only concerned about those who were admitted due to their race being “punished” - and not those who were rejected due to their race.

What about the Asian guy with a perfect GPA and near-perfect SAT who was rejected from every Ivy due to HIS race? Why are you OK with him being punished?

If I were his mother, or the mother of every white or Asian valedictorian who was rejected from their dream school, I would suggest he take a “gap” year, get a job, and reapply next year. The Ivies will not be able to reject him as easily.

 

[The5thHorseman]

Of course.


Of course.


The problem comes about when these top schools have different metrics for different races. It’s unconstitutional. Harvard, for example, sent out recruitment letters to blacks with SATs as low as 1150, but limited the letters they sent to Asians to around 1400 SAT.

I don't believe you.

How do you believe Grifty got in to Wharton?

 

[The5thHorseman]

Again, you are only concerned about those who were admitted due to their race being “punished” - and not those who were rejected due to their race.

What about the Asian guy with a perfect GPA and near-perfect SAT who was rejected from every Ivy due to HIS race? Why are you OK with him being punished?

If I were his mother, or the mother of every white or Asian valedictorian who was rejected from their dream school, I would suggest he take a “gap” year, get a job, and reapply next year. The Ivies will not be able to reject him as easily.

What about the Asian guy with a perfect GPA and near-perfect SAT who was rejected from every Ivy due to HIS race? Why are you OK with him being punished?

He/she will be embraced by any number of ambitious colleges with Honors Programs...they will offer financial incentives, and the kid will graduate every bit as employable.

 

[Lisa558]

I don't believe you.

How do you believe Grifty got in to Wharton?

You don’t believe I went to a selective college and graduated Phi Beta Kappa?

So basically you’re saying that the only way whiteys get into selective universities is because Daddy went there? You’re a racist.

 

[The5thHorseman]

You don’t believe I went to a selective college and graduated Phi Beta Kappa?

So basically you’re saying that the only way whiteys get into selective universities is because Daddy went there? You’re a racist.

No, I don't.

No, I didn't.