Law professor: Slippery slope to legal incest and polygamy

[kaz]

What a stupid question to ask a libertarian. And what a stupid need they have to need to be validated by government.

I am also Libertarian and I also believe government has no business in the marriage business.
But they are and gays should have the same rights as heterosexuals.
Every Libertarian I know believes that.

Right, you're a government loving libertarian. If your friends are really telling you they think that the way to reduce government power is to expand government power, they aren't any more libertarian then you are.

What SHOULD BE is not in play here, WHAT IT IS is what we work with.
Not your business what you believe their need should be.

OMG! You must have been shocked and horrified to find an ... opinion ... on a message board!

I'll give your request to keep my opinions to myself all due consideration.

Flush.

OK, done.

 

[kaz]

"Everyone deserves equal rights"
Years ago I was at an event in Atlanta where Willie Nelson said that. The event was not a gay this or that event in any way but a reporter asked him his opinion of gay marriage.
Shocked the hell out of me but I took a close look and studied on it.
Willie is right. Leave gay folk alone and what the hell is wrong with them getting as much joy out of being legally married same as I am to my wife?
What satisfaction could you ever get out of denying them that?

What a stupid question to ask a libertarian. And what a stupid need they have to need to be validated by government.

Is that why you got legally married, to be "validated"? Did it? Does why someone gets legally married even matter when discussing whether or not to treat legally married people equally?

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.

Should my legal marriage be treated equally under the law?

You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

 

[RKMBrown]

What a stupid question to ask a libertarian. And what a stupid need they have to need to be validated by government.

Is that why you got legally married, to be "validated"? Did it? Does why someone gets legally married even matter when discussing whether or not to treat legally married people equally?

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.

Should my legal marriage be treated equally under the law?

You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

IOW you are both right.

1) Gays are being discriminated against, and that is wrong. You both agree right?
2) Singles are being discriminated against, and that is wrong. You both agree right?

You guys appear to be trying to prove that one or the other is "wrong" or at least that one of you is more right. lol

3) Plural marriages advocates are being discriminated against, and that is arguably wrong.

It would appear the easiest solution is to end all of the discrimination by eliminating all of the advantages being lavished on married couples. But we might have to fight this stuff one group at a time since no one seems to give a crap about anyone but themselves, and that is what is really wrong.

 

[rightwinger]

I have no issue with polygamy

God knows I could never handle it but if someone else is crazy enough, let them do it. If they are consenting adults and nobody is harmed....no foul

 

[Seawytch]

What a stupid question to ask a libertarian. And what a stupid need they have to need to be validated by government.

Is that why you got legally married, to be "validated"? Did it? Does why someone gets legally married even matter when discussing whether or not to treat legally married people equally?

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.

Should my legal marriage be treated equally under the law?

You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

That's not the question I asked. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as yours is treated, yes or no?

 

[BobPlumb]

I'm thinking about marring myself.

 

[kaz]

Is that why you got legally married, to be "validated"? Did it? Does why someone gets legally married even matter when discussing whether or not to treat legally married people equally?

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.

Should my legal marriage be treated equally under the law?

You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

IOW you are both right.

1) Gays are being discriminated against, and that is wrong. You both agree right?
2) Singles are being discriminated against, and that is wrong. You both agree right?

You guys appear to be trying to prove that one or the other is "wrong" or at least that one of you is more right. lol

3) Plural marriages advocates are being discriminated against, and that is arguably wrong.

It would appear the easiest solution is to end all of the discrimination by eliminating all of the advantages being lavished on married couples. But we might have to fight this stuff one group at a time since no one seems to give a crap about anyone but themselves, and that is what is really wrong.

That makes no sense. Seawytch wants a government that discriminates between it's citizens including the death tax and progressive taxes. She doesn't want to end discrimination, she is in favor of it. Except ... for herself. She wants to continue the system and be exempt from it. To just add gay marriage is a total win for her and a total loss for me, it's not a compromise.

To say we're in this together somehow trying to end discrimination is preposterous, we're not. Also, you make repeating my position, end marriage, as some sort of insight. I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean to me exactly.

 

[Seawytch]

Question for Kaz: Should my legal marriage be treated the same, under law, that yours is treated?

 

[kaz]

Is that why you got legally married, to be "validated"? Did it? Does why someone gets legally married even matter when discussing whether or not to treat legally married people equally?

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.

Should my legal marriage be treated equally under the law?

You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

That's not the question I asked. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as yours is treated, yes or no?

You should have the same rights as a single person. Don't like it, change it for everyone, not just yourself. That you sleep with a woman gives you the right to nothing any other American shouldn't get. Don't want to pay death tax? End if for everyone. Don't want to pay a progressive tax? End it for everyone. Work out your own employee and insurance benefits, keep Obama out of it.

Not liking my answer doesn't make it not my answer.

 

[Seawytch]

I got legally married because unlike what you tell me about yourself, my partner's feelings matter to me.



You should be treated equally with single people. Anything you don't like about how single people are treated, you should change for everyone, not just yourself.

Ironically government not treating people the same is your desire, not mine, and yet you ask me to validate your discrimination.

That's not the question I asked. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as yours is treated, yes or no?

You should have the same rights as a single person. Don't like it, change it for everyone, not just yourself. That you sleep with a woman gives you the right to nothing any other American shouldn't get. Don't want to pay death tax? End if for everyone. Don't want to pay a progressive tax? End it for everyone. Work out your own employee and insurance benefits, keep Obama out of it.

Not liking my answer doesn't make it not my answer.

You're not answering the question. You are legally married. Your legal marriage entitles you to certain benefits and privileges. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as it is now? I'm not talking about the way you want the law, but the law as it is now. Yes or no?

 

[kaz]

You're not answering the question. You are legally married. Your legal marriage entitles you to certain benefits and privileges. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as it is now? I'm not talking about the way you want the law, but the law as it is now. Yes or no?

In California and with the Federal government, no, because your "marriage" was attained through the illegal actions of criminals on the bench. Those judges should spend the rest of their lives in jail. Taking powers which the people never granted is a serious offense.

If you lived in a State which passed gay marriage legally through the legislature, then I'm not going to endorse that but I'd oppose it no more or less then any other government marriage law.

 

[Seawytch]

You're not answering the question. You are legally married. Your legal marriage entitles you to certain benefits and privileges. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as it is now? I'm not talking about the way you want the law, but the law as it is now. Yes or no?

In California and with the Federal government, no, because your "marriage" was attained through the illegal actions of criminals on the bench. Those judges should spend the rest of their lives in jail. Taking powers which the people never granted is a serious offense.

If you lived in a State which passed gay marriage legally through the legislature, then I'm not going to endorse that but I'd oppose it no more or less then any other government marriage law.

I was legally married prior to the passing of Prop 8.

Should my legal marriage be treated exactly like your legal marriage under the law? Should I be as legally married in all 50 states as you are?

 

[kaz]

You're not answering the question. You are legally married. Your legal marriage entitles you to certain benefits and privileges. Should my legal marriage be treated the same under the law as it is now? I'm not talking about the way you want the law, but the law as it is now. Yes or no?

In California and with the Federal government, no, because your "marriage" was attained through the illegal actions of criminals on the bench. Those judges should spend the rest of their lives in jail. Taking powers which the people never granted is a serious offense.

If you lived in a State which passed gay marriage legally through the legislature, then I'm not going to endorse that but I'd oppose it no more or less then any other government marriage law.

I was legally married prior to the passing of Prop 8.

I don't see how that's relevant, it was an illegal marriage because it was obtained by an illegal ruling from the courts. It was not done legally by the legislature. So no, you're not married.

Should my legal marriage be treated exactly like your legal marriage under the law? Should I be as legally married in all 50 states as you are?

No, you're not married. If you were, then I'd go back to the answer I've provided before, which is that I do not think that States should be forced to be recognized any marriages performed in other States, you know that, we discussed it. Legally, DOMA was clearly legal based on the full faith and credit clause, so again if you want to change DOMA you would need to do it legally through the legislature, not illegally through the courts.

 

[Seawytch]

In California and with the Federal government, no, because your "marriage" was attained through the illegal actions of criminals on the bench. Those judges should spend the rest of their lives in jail. Taking powers which the people never granted is a serious offense.

If you lived in a State which passed gay marriage legally through the legislature, then I'm not going to endorse that but I'd oppose it no more or less then any other government marriage law.

I was legally married prior to the passing of Prop 8.

I don't see how that's relevant, it was an illegal marriage because it was obtained by an illegal ruling from the courts. It was not done legally by the legislature. So no, you're not married.

Should my legal marriage be treated exactly like your legal marriage under the law? Should I be as legally married in all 50 states as you are?

No, you're not married. If you were, then I'd go back to the answer I've provided before, which is that I do not think that States should be forced to be recognized any marriages performed in other States, you know that, we discussed it. Legally, DOMA was clearly legal based on the full faith and credit clause, so again if you want to change DOMA you would need to do it legally through the legislature, not illegally through the courts.

What you "think" is not the law. By law I'm legally married and by law your marriage is recognized in all 50 states.

 

[FA_Q2]

That's just bull shit propaganda and you know it.

Clearly if you read the posts from the liberal homosexuals on the board, there is no disputing Redhawk in that validation of who they have sex with is as deserving of collective recognition as heterosexual relationship is a major objective.

However, you're right there is a lot more to it then that. As liberals, they also want to grow the power of government, increase discrimination between citizens and get handouts. So to say all the want is validation would be way insufficient to describe their objectives.

This is comprehensively ignorant.

There are conservative homosexuals who understand that same-sex couples are also entitled to equal protection rights.

The only ‘objective’ is to acknowledge those rights in accordance with the Constitution.

Otherwise, the issue has nothing to do with ‘liberal or ‘conservative,’ and compelling the state to recognize and respect same-sex couples’ equal protection rights actually decreases the power of government.

No, it does no such thing. There was no decrease in government because gay marriage passes. That is a gross misunderstanding of what constitutes governmental power. Removing marriage entirely from the government sector would be a reduction in power. Merely adding more eligible people to current governmental influence does nothing to add or subtract from governmental power.

 

[kaz]

What you "think" is not the law. By law I'm legally married and by law your marriage is recognized in all 50 states.

I see, I misunderstood the question, I thought the question was regarding my view, not if I could explain to you what the law says. So my view is what I was giving you.

I'm glad you were able to look it up on your own.

 

[kaz]

Removing marriage entirely from the government sector would be a reduction in power. Merely adding more eligible people to current governmental influence does nothing to add or subtract from governmental power.

Of course adding people to current influence adds government power, for two reasons.

1) More people are invested in the influence and resistant to changing the system. As seawytch gets hers, she's going to stop demanding change and demand no change.

2) More people "benefit" which means it prods the government one way or another to grow taxes in other ways expanding their power over whatever else they are taxing more heavily.

 

[Seawytch]

What you "think" is not the law. By law I'm legally married and by law your marriage is recognized in all 50 states.

I see, I misunderstood the question, I thought the question was regarding my view, not if I could explain to you what the law says. So my view is what I was giving you.

I'm glad you were able to look it up on your own.

And still you dance around the question. As long as there are rights benefits and privileges associated with legal marriage, my legal marriage should be treated exactly like yours is under the law. 1st cousins can't marry in NY, but if they marry in HI and move to NY, they are still married. It should be the same for my legal marriage.

 

[kaz]

What you "think" is not the law. By law I'm legally married and by law your marriage is recognized in all 50 states.

I see, I misunderstood the question, I thought the question was regarding my view, not if I could explain to you what the law says. So my view is what I was giving you.

I'm glad you were able to look it up on your own.

And still you dance around the question. As long as there are rights benefits and privileges associated with legal marriage, my legal marriage should be treated exactly like yours is under the law. 1st cousins can't marry in NY, but if they marry in HI and move to NY, they are still married. It should be the same for my legal marriage.

That doesn't seem like a question, it seems like a statement.

 

[Seawytch]

I see, I misunderstood the question, I thought the question was regarding my view, not if I could explain to you what the law says. So my view is what I was giving you.

I'm glad you were able to look it up on your own.

And still you dance around the question. As long as there are rights benefits and privileges associated with legal marriage, my legal marriage should be treated exactly like yours is under the law. 1st cousins can't marry in NY, but if they marry in HI and move to NY, they are still married. It should be the same for my legal marriage.

That doesn't seem like a question, it seems like a statement.

You danced around the same question six or seven times. I've no reason to believe you'd answer it now.