This crew's still trying to figure out how many miles it takes to get to 10 miles when you are already 8miles along on a 13 mile trip. I figure mentioning base 2 won't help em at allgo and ruin it for everyone.
Kid Looks Like A Genius With 8 + 5 Doesn’t Add Up To 10
- Thread starter R.D.
- Start date
LiberalMedia
VIP Member
All the conservatards raging in this thread are hilarious.
"BAWWW, Y R U TEECHING KIDS A DIFFRENT WAY 2 APPROACH A PROLLEM? STICK W/ TRADITION U FASCIST"
Enlightened progressives like mysylf recognize the need for innovation in problem solving, and are constantly coming up with new ways to solve problems.
You conservatards can have fun doing things "just the way they've always been done." The civilized world won't miss you luddites.
"BAWWW, Y R U TEECHING KIDS A DIFFRENT WAY 2 APPROACH A PROLLEM? STICK W/ TRADITION U FASCIST"
Enlightened progressives like mysylf recognize the need for innovation in problem solving, and are constantly coming up with new ways to solve problems.
You conservatards can have fun doing things "just the way they've always been done." The civilized world won't miss you luddites.
It's the authoritarians of both parties have a problem with this approach... which isn't new by any means btw. I'm more conservative than these guys and I don't have a problem with it :-|
ricechickie
Gold Member
Kid Looks Like a Genius with Matter-of-Fact Retort Why Common Core Math Problem 8 5 Doesn 8217 t Add Up
So who’s right? The educators who insist on making the fundamentals of mathematics as complex as a Rubik’s cube, or the kid who probably has secret access to his mom’s old flashcards and sees this as a foolish waste of time?
Then add 3?!?!?
No, but you can get a 10 and a 3 (13). And a kid that age should know that a 13 is made up with a 10 and 3 units.
I don't understand the wording of the question, nor of the teacher's explanation, to be honest. But then again, I don't see the other problems on the page, nor did I attend the lesson that this child apparently did.
mamooth
Diamond Member
"Make 10" is standard terminology used in Common Core. In that context, the question was clear. The kid just didn't learn his lessons.
MAKE 10 TO ADD AND SUBTRACT - COMMON CORE 1.OA.6 2.OA.2 - TeachersPayTeachers.com
MAKE 10 TO ADD AND SUBTRACT - COMMON CORE 1.OA.6 2.OA.2 - TeachersPayTeachers.com
ricechickie
Gold Member
Thank you. I had a feeling.
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
Right, they lifted the story line right out of 1984. Just substitute Winston Smith for Captain Picard.
Delta4Embassy
Gold Member
"Good artists borrow from other artists. Great artists steal outright." - Pablo Piccaso
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
From "The Summer of Monuments" entry in Wikipedia:
"The phrase "two plus two equals five" ("2 + 2 = 5") is a slogan used in many different forms of media, but more specifically in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four[1] as an example of an obviously false dogma one may be required to believe, similar to other obviously false slogans by the Party in the novel. It is contrasted with the phrase "two plus two makes four", the obvious — but politically inexpedient — truth. Orwell's protagonist, Winston Smith, uses the phrase to wonder if the State might declare "two plus two equals five" as a fact; he ponders whether, if everybody believes it, does that make it true? The Inner Party interrogator of thought-criminals, O'Brien, says of the mathematically false statement that control over physical reality is unimportant; so long as one controls their own perceptions to what the Party wills, then any corporeal act is possible, in accordance with the principles of doublethink ("Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once").[2]
"The phrase "two plus two equals five" ("2 + 2 = 5") is a slogan used in many different forms of media, but more specifically in George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four[1] as an example of an obviously false dogma one may be required to believe, similar to other obviously false slogans by the Party in the novel. It is contrasted with the phrase "two plus two makes four", the obvious — but politically inexpedient — truth. Orwell's protagonist, Winston Smith, uses the phrase to wonder if the State might declare "two plus two equals five" as a fact; he ponders whether, if everybody believes it, does that make it true? The Inner Party interrogator of thought-criminals, O'Brien, says of the mathematically false statement that control over physical reality is unimportant; so long as one controls their own perceptions to what the Party wills, then any corporeal act is possible, in accordance with the principles of doublethink ("Sometimes they are five. Sometimes they are three. Sometimes they are all of them at once").[2]
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
Do you ever listen to yourself? You went to one of Jesse Jackson's "mathbonics" seminars in Oakland, didn't you?
Never studied CC but it made sense what they were asking
It's just basic arithmetic that any 7 year old could do. Sorry if it's to much for you.
ricechickie
Gold Member
I've looked at the Common Core standards, but I don't have to use any particular curriculum, as long as the children can do the work.
That's why I figured what they were asking, but I didn't recognize the particular verbiage.
That's why I figured what they were asking, but I didn't recognize the particular verbiage.
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
Threads like this go a long way in explaining why our public school systems rank dead last in the developed world...and why 40% of adults in places like Chicago are complete illiterates. All of them alumni of Common Core curriculums no doubt.
Irony ^
Rikurzhen
Gold Member
- Jul 24, 2014
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Take 1 from 8 and 1 from 5, add together and get 2. Then take 4 from 7 and add it to the 2 and now you have 6. Take the 2 from 3 and add it to the 4 and now you have a 6 and a 6 and a 1. Next take a 1 from each 6 and add them to the one, now you have a 5 and a 5 and a 3. Don't take the easy route. Next add the 5 and the 3 together and you have a 5 and an 8. Exactly where you started from but now you've transformed the 5 into an 8 and the 8 into the 5!!! (Bonus points). Now take a 3 from the 8 and add the remainder to the 5 and you have a 10 and a 3.
Congratulations, you've given the teacher a migraine by forcing her to follow along. If she can make you jump through useless hoops then turnabout should be fair play.
ricechickie
Gold Member
Take 1 from 8 and 1 from 5, add together and get 2. Then take 4 from 7 and add it to the 2 and now you have 6. Take the 2 from 3 and add it to the 4 and now you have a 6 and a 6 and a 1. Next take a 1 from each 6 and add them to the one, now you have a 5 and a 5 and a 3. Don't take the easy route. Next add the 5 and the 3 together and you have a 5 and an 8. Exactly where you started from but now you've transformed the 5 into an 8 and the 8 into the 5!!! (Bonus points). Now take a 3 from the 8 and add the remainder to the 5 and you have a 10 and a 3.
Congratulations, you've given the teacher a migraine by forcing her to follow along. If she can make you jump through useless hoops then turnabout should be fair play.
It's not useless. The more kids play with numbers, the more ways they find to solve a problem, the more they understand the process.
Helluva big improvement on memorizing "8 + 5 = 13." How do you make a thirteen? "I don't know." Where's the 10's place? "What?"
Tom Sweetnam
Platinum Member
Ummm...that's "too" much and "7 year-old". I see you have trouble stringing together cogent sentences like any 7 year-old could do. Common Core English graduate are we?
ricechickie
Gold Member
Do you understand that Common Core is a new thing?
It has to be, so we can blame any of its problems on Obama's evil plan to make us stupid!
Wrong. You use the word too when you could easily substitute the word also. My use of the word to, was correct. I guess you failed English and Math?
Rikurzhen
Gold Member
- Jul 24, 2014
- 6,145
- 1,292
- 185
Take 1 from 8 and 1 from 5, add together and get 2. Then take 4 from 7 and add it to the 2 and now you have 6. Take the 2 from 3 and add it to the 4 and now you have a 6 and a 6 and a 1. Next take a 1 from each 6 and add them to the one, now you have a 5 and a 5 and a 3. Don't take the easy route. Next add the 5 and the 3 together and you have a 5 and an 8. Exactly where you started from but now you've transformed the 5 into an 8 and the 8 into the 5!!! (Bonus points). Now take a 3 from the 8 and add the remainder to the 5 and you have a 10 and a 3.
Congratulations, you've given the teacher a migraine by forcing her to follow along. If she can make you jump through useless hoops then turnabout should be fair play.
It's not useless. The more kids play with numbers, the more ways they find to solve a problem, the more they understand the process.
Helluva big improvement on memorizing "8 + 5 = 13." How do you make a thirteen? "I don't know." Where's the 10's place? "What?"
It's fucking useless because once you're done with these students I used to get them. This math isn't "Common Core" this math has preceded "Common Core," this math pedagogy is called Constructivist Math and it's been on the radar in different locations and districts for decades.
Take a look at what happened after Alberta implemented this same pedagogy:
We already have a preview of where all this is heading. In the 2008-09 school year, the province introduced “discovery math,” which encourages kids to find new and creative ways of solving math problems (some of them quite cumbersome) and throws standard methods out the window. Alberta’s math scores, once among the highest in the world, promptly plunged. In 2012, 15.1 per cent of Alberta’s students failed to meet the minimum standards on PISA’s international math test – more than double the failure rate (7.4 per cent) in 2003. The percentage of top-scoring students declined to 16.9 per cent from 26.8. . . .
Just a decade ago, Alberta’s education system was the envy of the world. Americans and Europeans all came to find what they could learn from it. Schools were free to teach students in whatever way they liked, so long as the kids scored well on standardized tests. And they did – consistently outperforming all the other provinces in science and reading as well as in math. Parents strongly supported the province’s culture of accountability.
Just a decade ago, Alberta’s education system was the envy of the world. Americans and Europeans all came to find what they could learn from it. Schools were free to teach students in whatever way they liked, so long as the kids scored well on standardized tests. And they did – consistently outperforming all the other provinces in science and reading as well as in math. Parents strongly supported the province’s culture of accountability.
Here's the on-the-ground response and I've taken the time to highlight what ACTUAL MATH PROFESSORS have to say. Remember this, this pedagogy was cooked up by folks "trained" in "Math Education" which is what passes for math specialization in Education Faculties. It's very poorly validated clap-trap put out by Lefty ideologues.
Alberta teachers, tutors and professors are standing up against the fuzzy discovery math curriculum adopted by the Alberta government.
More than 50 professors and teachers have now signed a petition calling for a return to the conventional teaching of arithmetic, with a focus on students learning, practicing and mastering the basics of math in elementary school.
Here’s Dawn Arnold, a high school math teacher in Tofield. “I am seeing the results of the ‘discovery’ method coming into my senior high math classes and it is very disturbing.”
Gordon Swaters EDMONTON
In addition to having an 11 year old daughter in the school system and seeing the math she brings home, I am a U of A Math prof who sees the declining the ability of first year students to do basic math.
Donna Nixon ST. ALBERT
I am a junior high math teacher. More and more grade 7 students are coming in with no basic math skills – they don’t even know their basic addition and subtraction facts, never mind multiplication or division!!!
Terry Gannon EDMONTON, AB, CANADA
I am a parent of 7 year old twins, and a math prof at the U of Alberta. As a parent, an educator and indeed a mathematician, I know a balanced approach is fundamental. From what I have seen with my children’s education, there is no balance in mathematics education in our schools today.
Peter Zajiczek` CALGARY, CANADA
I am a mathematics teacher and our children are so ill-prepared for higher level mathematics it is frightening. Students need basic math facts memorized to focus on higher level concepts.
Christian Rios, Calgary
I am a mathematician at the University of Calgary, and I have children in the school system. Currently math education is creating more confusion than enlightenment. The main problem is the concept that synthesis (what they call “making sense”) may come before proficiency. This is an upside down approach to learning. Mathematics should be learned the way we learn our native language: First we memorize a few words and their basic meaning, we learn how to put together basic sentences allowing us to communicate. Much later in this process we get to the point of analyzing syntax, parts of speech, and symbolism.
The current approach to learning mathematics pretends to start with the analytic stage. This creates confusion in students, that leads to chronic frustration, and finally creates aversion to everything mathematical.
Olia Libicz Pavlin EDMONTON
I’m an ex – teacher with 2 elementary aged kids. They are not learning real math at school and I end up teaching them at home. What happens the the kids whose parents don’t like math and can’t explain math to their kids. I am very concerned with the whole discovery way of learning and that is why I left teaching. I have to teach my kids at home after school and there is no energy left at the end of the day to teach your own kids when you just worked with 31 kids.
Marc Van Sluys, Calgary
As a teacher, I can see the advantages of teaching math fundamentals. Since the new math curriculum has been introduced, I have seen the slow decline of fundamental math knowledge in my students. They struggle with simple addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. It seems to me that as an adult, I use the above skills more than the current skills being taught by the new curriculum.
Deborah Younger, Edmonton
I am a high school math teacher. I am noticing that an increasingly larger number of my Grade 10 students do not know basic times table facts, nor do they understand operations with fractions or integers. These are fundamental to successful completion of most high school math courses.
Viena Stastna, Calgary
I teach Calculus 1 at the university so I see the consequences.
Neil Hepburn CAMROSE, CANADA
I teach undergraduate economics and deal with the fallout from this every day. Simple algebraic operations escape my students. Clearly they have not “discovered” the methods.
Phil Davidson EDMONTON
I teach statistics to BComm students. On average my students educated here in Alberta are way behind my foreign students in basic math skills.
Roy Sharplin, Edmonton
I am an instructor in an engineering technology program at NAIT. We are seeing an increase in students who came to NAIT with high marks in high school math but struggle in our basic technology math courses.
Noel Allin EDMONTON
I have a teaching degree and was exposed to this doctrine of ‘discovery-based learning’ back in the 1970′s. The theory is that you will retain an answer longer and better if you ‘discover’ it yourself. It was a confusing mishmash then. It led to – nothing. Get rid of this idea entirely. Eveen at the university level there was much resistance and no fun involved in this ‘process’. International results should be more than enough to consign your experiment to the trash heap of useless learning techniques.
Corry Mortensen TILLEY
I was a mathematics teacher and I see the effects on the students I taught and on my own children. I also firmly believe that if you introduce critical thinking problems you must also teach “how” to be critical thinkers – those skills aren’t automatic. Teaching 4 different ways to do something isn’t critical thinking, teaching skills so students can develop their own methods and techniques is.
Hank Kalke EDMONTON, CANADA
In my career as a high school teacher of many courses including math & as an instructor at NAIT, I truly have experienced the importance of I totally agree with the “Back to the Basics: Mastering the fundamentals of mathematics” petition. As is stated, “the “new math” glares of absurdities in that students are led through multiple convoluted “strategies” to get to a solution, with no emphasis on mastering any one method. As a result, the importance of knowing basic math facts (eg. algorithms, time tables, automatic recalls, vertical additions) is diluted down to a weak understanding and poor grasp of basic mathematical concepts.”
Allysa Lumley LETHBRIDGE, CANADA
I am a mathematics master student and I see a lot of people struggling to handle basic math facts at all ages. It is very upsetting. I also have a large number of friends who are teachers that have expressed concern over the lack of preparedness for the next grade.
Ioana Crisan, Calgary
I have taught principles and intermediate courses in Economics at university level for twelve years. The inability of some of my students to solve basic equations that a Grade 5 student should be able to solve is shocking. It is obvious that some of them are paralyzed by math. A student should not have to use a calculator to divide 72 by 9. The education system has failed these students, and I hope it is not too late for those in charge to admit that a mistake has been made and to try to correct it. I have a daughter in Grade 1 and I hope that by the time she reaches university she will have more confidence in her math skills than my current students do.
More than 50 professors and teachers have now signed a petition calling for a return to the conventional teaching of arithmetic, with a focus on students learning, practicing and mastering the basics of math in elementary school.
Here’s Dawn Arnold, a high school math teacher in Tofield. “I am seeing the results of the ‘discovery’ method coming into my senior high math classes and it is very disturbing.”
Gordon Swaters EDMONTON
In addition to having an 11 year old daughter in the school system and seeing the math she brings home, I am a U of A Math prof who sees the declining the ability of first year students to do basic math.
Donna Nixon ST. ALBERT
I am a junior high math teacher. More and more grade 7 students are coming in with no basic math skills – they don’t even know their basic addition and subtraction facts, never mind multiplication or division!!!
Terry Gannon EDMONTON, AB, CANADA
I am a parent of 7 year old twins, and a math prof at the U of Alberta. As a parent, an educator and indeed a mathematician, I know a balanced approach is fundamental. From what I have seen with my children’s education, there is no balance in mathematics education in our schools today.
Peter Zajiczek` CALGARY, CANADA
I am a mathematics teacher and our children are so ill-prepared for higher level mathematics it is frightening. Students need basic math facts memorized to focus on higher level concepts.
Christian Rios, Calgary
I am a mathematician at the University of Calgary, and I have children in the school system. Currently math education is creating more confusion than enlightenment. The main problem is the concept that synthesis (what they call “making sense”) may come before proficiency. This is an upside down approach to learning. Mathematics should be learned the way we learn our native language: First we memorize a few words and their basic meaning, we learn how to put together basic sentences allowing us to communicate. Much later in this process we get to the point of analyzing syntax, parts of speech, and symbolism.
The current approach to learning mathematics pretends to start with the analytic stage. This creates confusion in students, that leads to chronic frustration, and finally creates aversion to everything mathematical.
Olia Libicz Pavlin EDMONTON
I’m an ex – teacher with 2 elementary aged kids. They are not learning real math at school and I end up teaching them at home. What happens the the kids whose parents don’t like math and can’t explain math to their kids. I am very concerned with the whole discovery way of learning and that is why I left teaching. I have to teach my kids at home after school and there is no energy left at the end of the day to teach your own kids when you just worked with 31 kids.
Marc Van Sluys, Calgary
As a teacher, I can see the advantages of teaching math fundamentals. Since the new math curriculum has been introduced, I have seen the slow decline of fundamental math knowledge in my students. They struggle with simple addition, multiplication, subtraction, and division. It seems to me that as an adult, I use the above skills more than the current skills being taught by the new curriculum.
Deborah Younger, Edmonton
I am a high school math teacher. I am noticing that an increasingly larger number of my Grade 10 students do not know basic times table facts, nor do they understand operations with fractions or integers. These are fundamental to successful completion of most high school math courses.
Viena Stastna, Calgary
I teach Calculus 1 at the university so I see the consequences.
Neil Hepburn CAMROSE, CANADA
I teach undergraduate economics and deal with the fallout from this every day. Simple algebraic operations escape my students. Clearly they have not “discovered” the methods.
Phil Davidson EDMONTON
I teach statistics to BComm students. On average my students educated here in Alberta are way behind my foreign students in basic math skills.
Roy Sharplin, Edmonton
I am an instructor in an engineering technology program at NAIT. We are seeing an increase in students who came to NAIT with high marks in high school math but struggle in our basic technology math courses.
Noel Allin EDMONTON
I have a teaching degree and was exposed to this doctrine of ‘discovery-based learning’ back in the 1970′s. The theory is that you will retain an answer longer and better if you ‘discover’ it yourself. It was a confusing mishmash then. It led to – nothing. Get rid of this idea entirely. Eveen at the university level there was much resistance and no fun involved in this ‘process’. International results should be more than enough to consign your experiment to the trash heap of useless learning techniques.
Corry Mortensen TILLEY
I was a mathematics teacher and I see the effects on the students I taught and on my own children. I also firmly believe that if you introduce critical thinking problems you must also teach “how” to be critical thinkers – those skills aren’t automatic. Teaching 4 different ways to do something isn’t critical thinking, teaching skills so students can develop their own methods and techniques is.
Hank Kalke EDMONTON, CANADA
In my career as a high school teacher of many courses including math & as an instructor at NAIT, I truly have experienced the importance of I totally agree with the “Back to the Basics: Mastering the fundamentals of mathematics” petition. As is stated, “the “new math” glares of absurdities in that students are led through multiple convoluted “strategies” to get to a solution, with no emphasis on mastering any one method. As a result, the importance of knowing basic math facts (eg. algorithms, time tables, automatic recalls, vertical additions) is diluted down to a weak understanding and poor grasp of basic mathematical concepts.”
Allysa Lumley LETHBRIDGE, CANADA
I am a mathematics master student and I see a lot of people struggling to handle basic math facts at all ages. It is very upsetting. I also have a large number of friends who are teachers that have expressed concern over the lack of preparedness for the next grade.
Ioana Crisan, Calgary
I have taught principles and intermediate courses in Economics at university level for twelve years. The inability of some of my students to solve basic equations that a Grade 5 student should be able to solve is shocking. It is obvious that some of them are paralyzed by math. A student should not have to use a calculator to divide 72 by 9. The education system has failed these students, and I hope it is not too late for those in charge to admit that a mistake has been made and to try to correct it. I have a daughter in Grade 1 and I hope that by the time she reaches university she will have more confidence in her math skills than my current students do.
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