Kennedy comments and Fallujah

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Then you do agree that Kennedy is being an ass. Thank You. Your point about personal heartfelt reasons is legit, and you should never lose your right to express that.

for the record, yes, kennedy is being an ass.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
It took over 50,000 in vietnam before you finally realized that the continuation of the 'police action' was a huge political venture started by the CIA to fund the CIA, and even then it wasn't because you saw it as a political ploy, the leaders couldn't fight the political pressure it applied. Why should any other military action be any different?

Maybe we learned something. Although lefties haven't, they still don't have the nerve or clarity of purpose.

As I said, the ones doing the 'anti-war' simply because its the opposing view from the republicans, like kennedy, are the ones giving fuel to this momentum but as I said, there are people who oppose the war for personal heartfelt reasons, would you deny their first amendment rights because of it?

No ones denying anyone their rights to speak. The reasoning is bad and lacks perspective and indicates an ability to learn from the past, as you already referenced.

I'm all for liberals shouting their idiocy from the mountaintops for all to hear.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by rtwngAvngr
Maybe we learned something. Although lefties haven't, they still don't have the nerve or clarity of purpose.

yet I believe that some 'lefties' have. I certainly have. I was all for going into afghanistan.

No ones denying anyone their rights to speak. The reasoning is bad and lacks perspective and indicates an ability to learn from the past, as you already referenced.

anyone who is telling a protestor that they are unamerican, unpatriotic, anti-american, or saying that if they don't like it here, then leave (or anything close to those respects) IS trying to deny them their right to speak. While YOU might think their reasoning is bad or lacks perspective, many others do not.

I'm all for liberals shouting their idiocy from the mountaintops for all to hear.

as I'm all for conservatives to speak their idiocy anywhere they choose as well

 

[Hobbit]

I think it shows a great deal of care for our country when people get out and protest the government, whether I agree with them or not. It shows that they care enough about current events that they got off the couch to do something. It isn't until people come out burning flags and claiming how oppressive America is and actually start bashing America as a whole rather than just the policies of the current administration that I tell them to get the !@#$ out.

 

[NewGuy]

Look at it from another angle:

Do the people claiming this to be another vietnam think we can't win?

Is that the point?

Would they be right?

We can fight all day long and do whatever we want to conventionally, but against an unconventional enemy one would think we could use a nuke. -Except nobody else in the world will let us get away with it.

We may have might, but can we be EFFECTIVE with it?

I can't help but think this maybe the unspoken point while they use the dialog to cause lack of confidence and dissention to just cause MORE issues that a Democrat can "fix" by compromise and talking with the enemy.

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by NewGuy
Look at it from another angle:

Do the people claiming this to be another vietnam think we can't win?

Is that the point?

Would they be right?

We can fight all day long and do whatever we want to conventionally, but against an unconventional enemy one would think we could use a nuke. -Except nobody else in the world will let us get away with it.

We may have might, but can we be EFFECTIVE with it?

I can't help but think this maybe the unspoken point while they use the dialog to cause lack of confidence and dissention to just cause MORE issues that a Democrat can "fix" by compromise and talking with the enemy.

I don't think their cries of 'another vietnam' are anything BUT for political advantage at this point. I certainly don't consider it another vietnam at this point.

 

[NightTrain]

It took over 50,000 in vietnam before you finally realized that the continuation of the 'police action' was a huge political venture started by the CIA to fund the CIA, and even then it wasn't because you saw it as a political ploy, the leaders couldn't fight the political pressure it applied.

No, Vietnam was a battle in the decades-long Cold War. We lost it, primarily due to the Soviets getting smart and driving a wedge between Americans. Hence, because America's political arms were tied, so was our military might. A united America is unbeatable, victory in Vietnam was certainly attainable, but politicians got in the way and AMERICAN politicians prevented victory. Why? Politicians need votes, and they catered to hippies.

This is a lesson that wasn't lost upon the rest of the world. Anyone with half a clue knows they can't beat us head-on. How you beat America is making America fight itself, and it seems to me that there's too many sheep playing right into their hands.

The Vietnam comparison is bogus, unless our hands again get tied by partisan policitics. And if that happens, God Help Us All.

 

[DKSuddeth]

I suppose the pentagon papers and the CIA's air america was a vast left wing conspiracy then, right?

 

[preemptingyou03]

- In Vietnam, guerrillas hid in the shadows and jungles. In Iraq, the terrorists are tracked down at night and right now in Fallujah, are out in the open.

- The VC controlled North Vietnam. We are in control of 99% of Iraq.

- The VC had a military and was backed by two superpowers, the Soviets and China. Saddam's military ran away and for bounty, they are the guys fighting us.

- All of Vietnam opposed American forces there, even the South. The overwhelming majority of Iraqis want us there until democracy is established and security is in place, then they want us to leave, which is totally understandable. But you'll see... on June 30th, when the Iraqis have the power to tell us to leave, they'll want us to stay.

- We didn't know what we were doing in Vietnam. In Iraq, as well as the rest of the Global War on Terror, Donald Rumsfeld is a military genious and will go down as the man that transformed the American military to confront our 21st Century threats.

- In Vietnam, major military combat continued for years and years. In Iraq, the invasion, the major military fight, was over in weeks.

- In Vietnam, we fought communism and defend people who lived under a corrupt and non-democratic regime. In Iraq, we're fighting terrorism and defending people who have already been liberated.

- In Vietnam, over 6,000 Americans died each year and 58,000 died overall, with 3 million Veitnamese casualties. In Iraq, we've lost about 600 troops, and about 40% of those troops died from non-combat reasons. And innocent civilian casualties in Iraq is at an all-time low, from any war, ever waged.

Comparisons of post war Iraq could be compared to post war Germany and Japan. We are much further, at this point, in Iraq than we were in Germany and Japan. In Iraq, unlike Vietnam, we have a much higher stake. We were attacked by terrorists. Our mindset won't weaken, no matter what your liberal socialist media wants to spew at the public.

 

[NewGuy]

- The VC controlled North Vietnam. We are in control of 99% of Iraq.

We aren't in control of anything.

We had this discussion already. Acknowedge they have a faith which drives them, and terrorism structuring which prevents the containment of the hydra.

Quit shielding your eyes.

 

[preemptingyou03]

We aren't in control of anything? Your stupidity shows with that statement.

Iraq's in our control. According to polls, 1% of the the Shi'a, (which is 60% of Iraq) support this guy Sadr. That's 1% of 60%. Do the math, my friend.

The fact that a few hundred foreign individuals have a few dozen RPGs and there are roadside bombs that haven't been found yet from the former regime, doesn't mean we aren't in control of anything.

Look at Iraq. We don't give the people enough credit. They suffered under 30 years of totalitarian rule, where Uday would go to schools and pick out a 13 year-old girl for his afternoon fun. We've freed 25 million people. There will be bumps in the road.

But if you think we're not in control of anything, you're blind.

 

[preemptingyou03]

Their faith isn't the enemy. Freedom and religion... any religion, can coexist. For you to suggest that the Islamic faith is the enemy, it would be as if rather than help the Iraqi people, we should rape, torture, and kill them. Sort of like Saddam right?

That isn't our position. Radical Islam is the enemy and while it is inflamed, it will be conquered by the values that have won over 120 nations since 1917.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
Their faith isn't the enemy. Freedom and religion... any religion, can coexist. For you to suggest that the Islamic faith is the enemy, it would be as if rather than help the Iraqi people, we should rape, torture, and kill them. Sort of like Saddam right?

That isn't our position. Radical Islam is the enemy and while it is inflamed, it will be conquered by the values that have won over 120 nations since 1917.

Until you understand Islam, don't bother defining "radical" Islam sound-bite boy.

 

[preemptingyou03]

Are you Muslim? What makes your opinion so much better than mine, your Highness? Are we to overlook the half a billion Muslims that live in democracies outside the Middle East, and the millions of Muslims and Clerics that are calling for democracy?

If you don't think democracy will work, you're fooling yourself.

 

[preemptingyou03]

Are you suggesting we kill every Iraqi civilian, considering they are Muslim?

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
Are you suggesting we kill every Iraqi civilian, considering they are Muslim?

Did I say that you weenie? Everything I say, you think I justify killing large groups in random fashion.

 

[gaffer]

Originally posted by DKSuddeth
It took over 50,000 in vietnam before you finally realized that the continuation of the 'police action' was a huge political venture started by the CIA to fund the CIA, and even then it wasn't because you saw it as a political ploy, the leaders couldn't fight the political pressure it applied. Why should any other military action be any different?

As I said, the ones doing the 'anti-war' simply because its the opposing view from the republicans, like kennedy, are the ones giving fuel to this momentum but as I said, there are people who oppose the war for personal heartfelt reasons, would you deny their first amendment rights because of it?

Vietnam was started by a democrat. TK's brother JK. Its was expanded LBJ another democrat. It was the conservatives that ended. Poorly but ended. It was then the democratic congress that voted to stop all aid and support of SV, which allowed the NV to invade and take them over. Can the democrats do anything right? Nope.

 

[preemptingyou03]

No, that's the problem. You don't say anything. You discredit everything without stating a new opinion. If you fail to think we're "in control" of Iraq and if you think Islam's the problem, and if you fail to answer the question, if you are Muslim yourself... anything you say, quite frankly, should be ignored.

Rather than just continue to discredit my opinion, as well as other opinions, you should back it up with a direct, black and white statement of your own. Capish?

You say we're not in control, yet this "uprising" as our liberal media calls it, is coming from a group of guerrillas, that until this, have been hiding in their homes. Now they're out in the open. And the last I counted, 460 of them were dead in the streets of Fallujah.

You say we're not in control, yet this uprising is only 1% of the 60% of Iraqis. You ignored that statistic though.

And while you claim Islam's the problem, and mock me for "not understanding Islam," you overlook the 500 million Muslims living in free nations outside the Middle East.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by preemptingyou03
No, that's the problem. You don't say anything. You discredit everything without stating a new opinion.

Actually, it isn't due to my lack of speech as previously established in numerous posts, but your lack of reading and reading comprehension.

If you fail to think we're "in control" of Iraq and if you think Islam's the problem, and if you fail to answer the question, if you are Muslim yourself... anything you say, quite frankly, should be ignored.

As established, the questions have been answered. My faith is not in question by anyone on this board, I think.

Ignoring someone's information because they don't tell you what you want to hear is the main cause of ignorance world wide.

Rather than just continue to discredit my opinion, as well as other opinions, you should back it up with a direct, black and white statement of your own. Capish?

Again, see dictionary re: "Reading Comprehension".

You say we're not in control, yet this "uprising" as our liberal media calls it, is coming from a group of guerrillas, that until this, have been hiding in their homes. Now they're out in the open. And the last I counted, 460 of them were dead in the streets of Fallujah.

They have this method of warfare in common practice, yet you call it an uprising and call them guerrillas.

You say we're not in control, yet this uprising is only 1% of the 60% of Iraqis. You ignored that statistic though.

Statistics mean nothing. They only attack through cells and sleeper cells. When was the last time you turned off the TV?

And while you claim Islam's the problem, and mock me for "not understand Islam," you overlook the 500 million Muslims living in free nations outside the Middle East.

Again, review your understanding of Islam, cells, and their common method of war.

Try turning off the TV and getting out a book on the topic.

 

[preemptingyou03]

I understand the tactics of terrorism. You simply have yet to offer any suggestions for how we should deal with it. By helping these people, the good will inevitably outweigh the bad, and democracy will take hold in an Arab nation, which will be nothing less than historic.

I feel these terrorist cells, conducting terrorist warfare, should be crushed. And I do not doubt that our military can and will do so. And we will prevail Iraq as the victors, but not as victorious as the free people of that great nation.

So... considering I don't understand the Islamic religion and the warfare of Muslims, please tell me, wise one, how we shall win the War on Terror. And try to do it without mentioning the fucking EU.