Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[Vastator]

Pushing someone down can cause death but its not lethal force. Do you understand the difference?

Do you understand what an officer means when he says lethal force? Doesnt seem like it, and I dont care to try to teach someone who cant understand something so simplistic

i understand the difference. It can cause death and its used as force....its lethal force.

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

Well, notice that the majority of second amendment supporters are not on the side of the shooter.

But yes, that this many people would argue that yelling at a woman over where she parked while packing is not an unreasonably dangerous situation to create is a bit scary

I haven’t heard a single poster endorse the confrontation of the woman, who parked in the handicapped spot.

 

[G.T.]

Pushing someone down can cause death but its not lethal force. Do you understand the difference?

Do you understand what an officer means when he says lethal force? Doesnt seem like it, and I dont care to try to teach someone who cant understand something so simplistic

i understand the difference. It can cause death and its used as force....its lethal force.

Yeah, no. Nobodys ever been convicted of attempted murder for pushing someone down. If a push results in a death its also not murder, its involuntary manslaughter by virtue of a push NOT being considered lethal in intent.

Give it a fuckin break...an obsessive compulsive threatening to shoot people over a damn parking spot being pushed away from a woman and children is what youre defending as cause for murder in spite of the pusher doing what any grown man should do to a nutbag approaching his family


you perhaps dont belong owning deadly weaponry, either. life is more valuable than a killing in retaliation for a push.

Bam! Perfectly stated

Im pro gun rights but the mentality of anyone thinking this is OK makes me question being pretty pro regulation...I dunno. Its def. a downer that people are so irrational like that.

Well, notice that the majority of second amendment supporters are not on the side of the shooter.

But yes, that this many people would argue that yelling at a woman over where she parked while packing is not an unreasonably dangerous situation to create is a bit scary

And testimony of his previous encounters and the threat he made to shoot someone already in the past should clue some folks in that he was looking this to happen

 

[Lewdog]

Supposed to be trained?

Where is that stipulation in any law regarding self defense?

Concealed permit holder right ?? Are you suggesting that concealed carry permits are found in cracker jack boxes ??

Where is there any stipulation on being trained to overcome emotion?

An NRA pistol safety class does not train people to overcome emotion

However, it would train people to avoid rather than create conflict as the test way to prevent shootings, however. And the goal is to avoid a shooting if at all possible, not just justify a shooting.

If you were carrying, would you start screaming at another guys's woman over where she was parked? You see any risk of that turning into a shooting?

This kind of thing is why in many states that have CCW, still have laws where you can't wear the gun into an establishment that serves alcohol. If you got guys like this idiot that can't be responsible with his gun in a situation like this, could you imagine how many people would get killed if you had a bunch of CCW people getting drunk off their ass?

Typical Democrat argument, argue from theory, ignore reality.

In reality, the psycho WOULD carry the gun in the bar while everyone else would obey the law and be unarmed to defend themselves.

This happens over and over and yet you have a complete inability to learn from reality

Theory that is still being studied today is still being studied today because it is supported by reality.

 

[Vastator]

So you would be unconcerned if a man started yelling at your wife in a parking lot.

As you so eloquently put it, oh bullshit

I'm not a savage.
I would have simply got back in the car and left.
Of course I'd never park in a handicap zone so it would never have become an issue.

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Justified. If the guy on the ground was in fear of his safety.

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

Easy to be am armchair quarterback in these situations but you weren't the one who was assaulted and you have no idea what your own reaction would be to being the victim of a violent physical assault.

Doesn't make it legal what the shooter done next.

Doesn't make it illegal either

If I was on the jury I'd say it was justified
I really don't give a shit that some asshole who would physically assault someone else got dead

Do you think we should follow the Constitution? Is the Constitution important?

WHat's that got to do with this case and the evidence I saw on the video?

One guy forcibly shoved a smaller man to the ground and got shot
The guy who got shot committed assault
Shooting justfied

 

[Lewdog]

I'm not a savage.
I would have simply got back in the car and left.
Of course I'd never park in a handicap zone so it would never have become an issue.

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

 

[kaz]

I'm not even clear what you're arguing. Are you arguing that white people want to shoot black people while black people actually shoot more white people than whites shoot blacks?

And again, anecdotal arguments mean nothing

No. I'm saying that white people often over-act in simple situation if it is a black person instead of a white person. NOT A MUGGING OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY MIGHT GET KILLED. Normal... non-assuming situations like customer service. If you don't know what I am talking about, you haven't been paying attention the last couple weeks.

CVS fires employees for calling cops on customer - CNN Video

Woman called cops on a Black guy for wearing socks at pool.

Woman fired after calling the police on a black man for wearing socks in community pool

White female Yale student called the cops on Black student for sleeping on couch.

Police called on black student sleeping in her Yale dorm

These cases have nothing to do with being worried about being murdered. It's simply cases where people over-reacted.

And yet blacks actually murder far more whites than whites murder black and that isn't an "over-react(ion)." How does that make sense? Are blacks racist? Is that why they do it?

Again, WTF does murder have to do with an OLD Black woman with a coupon for depends, a guy wearing socks in a pool, and a young black girl sleeping on a couch at YALE have to do with worrying about being murdered?

Nothing, I never said it did. Actually, you brought this up in our discussion about murder, not me.

Fact: Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks

LewDemocrat: OMG, whites have a race issue

That's what makes no sense

No I didn't. I said people like this guy have been over-reacting because of race a lot in all kinds of situations.

Fact, Blacks kill more Blacks than Blacks kill Whites. Now another thing, and this is the last I'll say, the percentage of Whites killed by Blacks, compared to Blacks killed by Whites, isn't that big of a gap, and to be quite honest, it could very easily be made up by the fact that a lot of Black deaths go unsolved because the cops don't care to put as much resources towards finding the killer unless they are someone of importance.

Now that's a fact. The less money you make, if you are a minority, and if you live in an urban area, the less police resources that will be used to solve your murder.

Fact, blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks. Stop diverting. How do you get out that the issue is ... whites being racist?

You're just a typical Democrat race whore. Blacks aren't racist because only whites are racist. You know that because you're not a racist ...

 

[Skull Pilot]

True, but we are supposed to be trained to overcome our emotions once the situation was under control, and the attacker disengaged, and even stepped back.

Retreat does not indicate the attack is over. Is someone knocked me to my feet that way I would suspect the attack to likely continue.

It is why it is good not attack others. You open yourself up to the response which may viewed as reasonable since you previously engaged an attack.

Retreat is an indication that the attack is over, and especially if your weapon caused the retreat. He knew (it appeared) that he was out of danger once pulled his weapon and the assailant retreated in his body language given, but the shooters emotions caused him to take the shot in which shouldn't have been taken at that point.

Or the piece of shit who assaulted the guy was backing up to come at him again

Oh yeah that's what usually happens in a fight right? When you knock someone on the ground and gain an advantage, you back up to allow them to get up? GTFO....

Yeah when the guy is getting up you kick him in the face.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as **** wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

 

[Lewdog]

So as long as your afraid, your justified in taking another mans life? Taking another mans life is dependent on your emotional state?

Easy to be am armchair quarterback in these situations but you weren't the one who was assaulted and you have no idea what your own reaction would be to being the victim of a violent physical assault.

Doesn't make it legal what the shooter done next.

Doesn't make it illegal either

If I was on the jury I'd say it was justified
I really don't give a shit that some asshole who would physically assault someone else got dead

Do you think we should follow the Constitution? Is the Constitution important?

WHat's that got to do with this case and the evidence I saw on the video?

One guy forcibly shoved a smaller man to the ground and got shot
The guy who got shot committed assault
Shooting justfied

It has everything to do with it. It's called the 8th Amendment. Pushing a guy down who is standing outside your wife's car with your kids in it, isn't equal to the punishment of being shot and killed.

 

[Lewdog]

True, but we are supposed to be trained to overcome our emotions once the situation was under control, and the attacker disengaged, and even stepped back.

Retreat does not indicate the attack is over. Is someone knocked me to my feet that way I would suspect the attack to likely continue.

It is why it is good not attack others. You open yourself up to the response which may viewed as reasonable since you previously engaged an attack.

Retreat is an indication that the attack is over, and especially if your weapon caused the retreat. He knew (it appeared) that he was out of danger once pulled his weapon and the assailant retreated in his body language given, but the shooters emotions caused him to take the shot in which shouldn't have been taken at that point.

Or the piece of shit who assaulted the guy was backing up to come at him again

Oh yeah that's what usually happens in a fight right? When you knock someone on the ground and gain an advantage, you back up to allow them to get up? GTFO....

Yeah when the guy is getting up you kick him in the face.

While you are backing up from 8-10 feet away? Now you're just bullshitting.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

If he was just yelling?

I would have ignored him

If he put his hands on them or tried to open the car doors that's a different story

 

[kaz]

So you would be unconcerned if a man started yelling at your wife in a parking lot.

As you so eloquently put it, oh bullshit

I'm not a savage.
I would have simply got back in the car and left.
Of course I'd never park in a handicap zone so it would never have become an issue.

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

Big difference between pushing someone who's screaming at your woman and shooting the guy who pushed you

 

[Skull Pilot]

Retreat does not indicate the attack is over. Is someone knocked me to my feet that way I would suspect the attack to likely continue.

It is why it is good not attack others. You open yourself up to the response which may viewed as reasonable since you previously engaged an attack.

Retreat is an indication that the attack is over, and especially if your weapon caused the retreat. He knew (it appeared) that he was out of danger once pulled his weapon and the assailant retreated in his body language given, but the shooters emotions caused him to take the shot in which shouldn't have been taken at that point.

Or the piece of shit who assaulted the guy was backing up to come at him again

Oh yeah that's what usually happens in a fight right? When you knock someone on the ground and gain an advantage, you back up to allow them to get up? GTFO....

Yeah when the guy is getting up you kick him in the face.

While you are backing up from 8-10 feet away? Now you're just bullshitting.

That guy was not 10 feet away from the guy on the ground

 

[miketx]

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I didn't see any gun until the thug pushed him to the ground.

 

[Vastator]

Swish, you didn't address the point. You said the guy did not threaten her. If a man went up to your wife and started screaming at her in a parking lot, you wouldn't view that as a threat. I sure the **** would. I frankly don't believe you saying you believe that is not threatening

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

The assailant shows no prior knowledge of the victim being armed. In fact no weapon is shown in the video prior to the assault.

 

[G.T.]

Easy to be am armchair quarterback in these situations but you weren't the one who was assaulted and you have no idea what your own reaction would be to being the victim of a violent physical assault.

Doesn't make it legal what the shooter done next.

Doesn't make it illegal either

If I was on the jury I'd say it was justified
I really don't give a shit that some asshole who would physically assault someone else got dead

Do you think we should follow the Constitution? Is the Constitution important?

WHat's that got to do with this case and the evidence I saw on the video?

One guy forcibly shoved a smaller man to the ground and got shot
The guy who got shot committed assault
Shooting justfied

It has everything to do with it. It's called the 8th Amendment. Pushing a guy down who is standing outside your wife's car with your kids in it, isn't equal to the punishment of being shot and killed.

im not even sure pushing someone away from someone is even considered assault if no injury occurs

the judge would be really pissed off with that case, imagine

 

[Skull Pilot]

Easy to be am armchair quarterback in these situations but you weren't the one who was assaulted and you have no idea what your own reaction would be to being the victim of a violent physical assault.

Doesn't make it legal what the shooter done next.

Doesn't make it illegal either

If I was on the jury I'd say it was justified
I really don't give a shit that some asshole who would physically assault someone else got dead

Do you think we should follow the Constitution? Is the Constitution important?

WHat's that got to do with this case and the evidence I saw on the video?

One guy forcibly shoved a smaller man to the ground and got shot
The guy who got shot committed assault
Shooting justfied

It has everything to do with it. It's called the 8th Amendment. Pushing a guy down who is standing outside your wife's car with your kids in it, isn't equal to the punishment of being shot and killed.

Assaulting a smaller weaker person is.

The guy yelling committed no crime

The guy assaulting did

 

[Lewdog]

No. I'm saying that white people often over-act in simple situation if it is a black person instead of a white person. NOT A MUGGING OR SOMETHING WHERE THEY MIGHT GET KILLED. Normal... non-assuming situations like customer service. If you don't know what I am talking about, you haven't been paying attention the last couple weeks.

CVS fires employees for calling cops on customer - CNN Video

Woman called cops on a Black guy for wearing socks at pool.

Woman fired after calling the police on a black man for wearing socks in community pool

White female Yale student called the cops on Black student for sleeping on couch.

Police called on black student sleeping in her Yale dorm

These cases have nothing to do with being worried about being murdered. It's simply cases where people over-reacted.

And yet blacks actually murder far more whites than whites murder black and that isn't an "over-react(ion)." How does that make sense? Are blacks racist? Is that why they do it?

Again, WTF does murder have to do with an OLD Black woman with a coupon for depends, a guy wearing socks in a pool, and a young black girl sleeping on a couch at YALE have to do with worrying about being murdered?

Nothing, I never said it did. Actually, you brought this up in our discussion about murder, not me.

Fact: Blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks

LewDemocrat: OMG, whites have a race issue

That's what makes no sense

No I didn't. I said people like this guy have been over-reacting because of race a lot in all kinds of situations.

Fact, Blacks kill more Blacks than Blacks kill Whites. Now another thing, and this is the last I'll say, the percentage of Whites killed by Blacks, compared to Blacks killed by Whites, isn't that big of a gap, and to be quite honest, it could very easily be made up by the fact that a lot of Black deaths go unsolved because the cops don't care to put as much resources towards finding the killer unless they are someone of importance.

Now that's a fact. The less money you make, if you are a minority, and if you live in an urban area, the less police resources that will be used to solve your murder.

Fact, blacks kill more whites than whites kill blacks. Stop diverting. How do you get out that the issue is ... whites being racist?

You're just a typical Democrat race whore. Blacks aren't racist because only whites are racist. You know that because you're not a racist ...

Statistics say that. Murder statistics especially when it comes to who committed them, are about the least reliable statistic there is. Now you've seemed to have some reasoning and common sense in this thread, so I'm sure you can figure out why murder statistics when it comes to who committed the murders are hard to figure out.

 

[jon_berzerk]

So in response you escalate the situation?
How'd that turn out for Saint McGlockton?

I'd escalate the situation by not screaming at another guy's woman in a parking lot while I'm packing? Seriously? How does that make sense?

Big difference between yelling and assault.
And as I said earlier all involved are idiots.
From the chick on down to the shooter.

I agree. But only one decided to raise the stakes to violence. And it cost him his life...

So you are saying if a guy with a gun was standing outside the car your wife and kids are sitting in and yelling at them, you'd not do anything about it?

I sure as **** wouldnt assault him!!!
Thats a good way to get shot.......oh wait.

that is the beauty of concealed carry