Just how bad Qadaffi was for Libya.

[Baruch Menachem]

Tell us more!

All I have to go by are the videos we are seeing. It is like trying to get a feel for America by seeing only pictures of Detroit, NE DC and Watts.

 

[JStone]

I agree none of this would have happened without NATO air power but at the same time the Libyans were doing all the ground work and Gaddafi recruited alot of foreign fighters and mercenaries from outside the country, in fact he had units of the Libyan Military who were not even from Libya even before this whole thing started. Like you said, I am hoping the Libyans will surprise us although them making Sharia law the basis of their constitution looks worrying.

I am not convinced as to how many mercenaries he had. Sometimes I have heard that. I have also heard in particular one black guy who said it simply wasn't true. He was fighting in the normal army as were the others. It is not at all unlikely given his eccentricities and apparent paranoia that he had some private army people but I have heard that this was propaganda.

I have also heard that black soldiers and even non soldiers have all been treated as mercenaries, getting a dreadful fate, often resulting in death.

Like you said, I am hoping the Libyans will surprise us although them making Sharia law the basis of their constitution looks worrying.

I hadn't realised they had done that. I heard them say they were going to be a democracy but were going to have Sharia as their law. Obviously Sharia can be no more severe than our laws so it would depend how they work that out. I was a pit perturbed to discover they immediately have made polygamy legal.

I then thought OMG they are not going to go by something like Iran's system are they? You would think no one would be that daft as, having lived under it for a while the Iranians are wanting proper democracy.

Hopefully if they do go for a proper democracy, even if their law is Sharia, the parliament will have the right to change that if/when it wants and if it is genuine democracy for all the people, then they will change it when they are ready - that is if they are not in another civil war??

anyway yes, fingers crossed. I did hear some say that during the war they had changed and that people had become less militant than before, so yes, fingers crossed.

I guess when we hear the full constitution we will know a bit more.

I am far less concerned about Tunisia which has elected a moderate Islamic party.

Islamic Party Claims Victory in Tunisia Election | News | English

Its just different I guess, whenever we hear the words "Sharia law" here in the West we get nervous but for the Muslims they love it, alot of the rebels who fought Gaddafi were religious so we shouldn't be too shocked that this happened. We will see how things go from here, unlike Afghanistan after the Soviets left, Libya has oil and alot of international interest in helping them, hopefully that will turn the corner for the Libyans.

I really don't think the Muslimas beaten for being disobedient, sanctioned by the shariah, feel too warm and fuzzy about it

 

[High_Gravity]

I am not convinced as to how many mercenaries he had. Sometimes I have heard that. I have also heard in particular one black guy who said it simply wasn't true. He was fighting in the normal army as were the others. It is not at all unlikely given his eccentricities and apparent paranoia that he had some private army people but I have heard that this was propaganda.

I have also heard that black soldiers and even non soldiers have all been treated as mercenaries, getting a dreadful fate, often resulting in death.



I hadn't realised they had done that. I heard them say they were going to be a democracy but were going to have Sharia as their law. Obviously Sharia can be no more severe than our laws so it would depend how they work that out. I was a pit perturbed to discover they immediately have made polygamy legal.

I then thought OMG they are not going to go by something like Iran's system are they? You would think no one would be that daft as, having lived under it for a while the Iranians are wanting proper democracy.

Hopefully if they do go for a proper democracy, even if their law is Sharia, the parliament will have the right to change that if/when it wants and if it is genuine democracy for all the people, then they will change it when they are ready - that is if they are not in another civil war??

anyway yes, fingers crossed. I did hear some say that during the war they had changed and that people had become less militant than before, so yes, fingers crossed.

I guess when we hear the full constitution we will know a bit more.

I am far less concerned about Tunisia which has elected a moderate Islamic party.

Islamic Party Claims Victory in Tunisia Election | News | English

Its just different I guess, whenever we hear the words "Sharia law" here in the West we get nervous but for the Muslims they love it, alot of the rebels who fought Gaddafi were religious so we shouldn't be too shocked that this happened. We will see how things go from here, unlike Afghanistan after the Soviets left, Libya has oil and alot of international interest in helping them, hopefully that will turn the corner for the Libyans.

I really don't think the Muslimas beaten for being disobedient, sanctioned by the shariah, feel too warm and fuzzy about it

Probably not but you would be surprised, we have a female poster from Saudi Arabia come on USMB last year and go off on us and say that the women in the Kingdom don't want out "disgusting" freedoms and they are happy with the way things are, I don't think she speaks for everyone but I think there are women who are probably content with it.

 

[alexa]

Its just different I guess, whenever we hear the words "Sharia law" here in the West we get nervous but for the Muslims they love it, alot of the rebels who fought Gaddafi were religious so we shouldn't be too shocked that this happened. We will see how things go from here, unlike Afghanistan after the Soviets left, Libya has oil and alot of international interest in helping them, hopefully that will turn the corner for the Libyans.

I really don't think the Muslimas beaten for being disobedient, sanctioned by the shariah, feel too warm and fuzzy about it

Probably not but you would be surprised, we have a female poster from Saudi Arabia come on USMB last year and go off on us and say that the women in the Kingdom don't want out "disgusting" freedoms and they are happy with the way things are, I don't think she speaks for everyone but I think there are women who are probably content with it.

Clothes are an interesting one as many Muslim women do claim it is what they want to wear. However Saudi women have recently got the right to be involved in Politics and they have been protesting for the right to drive by driving for some time, so they do seem to be working for change.

You would need to be a sadist though to agree with Taliban type punishment and I know that when they have tried to get people in the arab world into their way of thinking before, they have soon been sent packing.

Like I said in another thread for the first third of my life the only place that indulged in that sort of stuff was Saudi Arabia so hopefully there will be none of that. I do not see the people wanting it. The Moderate Islamist canditate in Tunisia had to put up with being called a 'terrorist' by some secularists in Tunisia, they were so suspicious.

 

[High_Gravity]

I really don't think the Muslimas beaten for being disobedient, sanctioned by the shariah, feel too warm and fuzzy about it

Probably not but you would be surprised, we have a female poster from Saudi Arabia come on USMB last year and go off on us and say that the women in the Kingdom don't want out "disgusting" freedoms and they are happy with the way things are, I don't think she speaks for everyone but I think there are women who are probably content with it.

Clothes are an interesting one as many Muslim women do claim it is what they want to wear. However Saudi women have recently got the right to be involved in Politics and they have been protesting for the right to drive by driving for some time, so they do seem to be working for change.

You would need to be a sadist though to agree with Taliban type punishment and I know that when they have tried to get people in the arab world into their way of thinking before, they have soon been sent packing.

Like I said in another thread for the first third of my life the only place that indulged in that sort of stuff was Saudi Arabia so hopefully there will be none of that. I do not see the people wanting it. The Moderate Islamist canditate in Tunisia had to put up with being called a 'terrorist' by some secularists in Tunisia, they were so suspicious.

Well the Saudi woman who posted here was very adamant about liking the things were in the Kingdom, but than again when that is all you know and you are brain washed by lying imams its not surprising, shit there weres slaves here in the US who were ok with slavery because it was all they knew and they were treated well in the house.

 

[alexa]

Probably not but you would be surprised, we have a female poster from Saudi Arabia come on USMB last year and go off on us and say that the women in the Kingdom don't want out "disgusting" freedoms and they are happy with the way things are, I don't think she speaks for everyone but I think there are women who are probably content with it.

Clothes are an interesting one as many Muslim women do claim it is what they want to wear. However Saudi women have recently got the right to be involved in Politics and they have been protesting for the right to drive by driving for some time, so they do seem to be working for change.

You would need to be a sadist though to agree with Taliban type punishment and I know that when they have tried to get people in the arab world into their way of thinking before, they have soon been sent packing.

Like I said in another thread for the first third of my life the only place that indulged in that sort of stuff was Saudi Arabia so hopefully there will be none of that. I do not see the people wanting it. The Moderate Islamist canditate in Tunisia had to put up with being called a 'terrorist' by some secularists in Tunisia, they were so suspicious.

Well the Saudi woman who posted here was very adamant about liking the things were in the Kingdom, but than again when that is all you know and you are brain washed by lying imams its not surprising, shit there weres slaves here in the US who were ok with slavery because it was all they knew and they were treated well in the house.

I understand we used to believe whipping was an appropriate punishment as long as the crime had really been committed. ..but I think they are on the move for change now.

However these countries are not Wahhabi, which Saudi Arabia is and although the Saudi's have managed to niggle in with their money and there are some Al Qaeda types, apart from the Saudi infiltration, I don't think there is a recent history of engaging in this type of punishment in the Arab world. I have my fingers crossed that they are going to properly rediscover traditional Islam which is much more moderate and where Islamic Law is subject to change and update.

Have you read this article. I think he hit's the nail on the head to the difficulties they have in repossessing themselves and finding their autonomy and deciding their future.

"Bernard Lewis Revisited" by Michael Hirsh

 

[High_Gravity]

Clothes are an interesting one as many Muslim women do claim it is what they want to wear. However Saudi women have recently got the right to be involved in Politics and they have been protesting for the right to drive by driving for some time, so they do seem to be working for change.

You would need to be a sadist though to agree with Taliban type punishment and I know that when they have tried to get people in the arab world into their way of thinking before, they have soon been sent packing.

Like I said in another thread for the first third of my life the only place that indulged in that sort of stuff was Saudi Arabia so hopefully there will be none of that. I do not see the people wanting it. The Moderate Islamist canditate in Tunisia had to put up with being called a 'terrorist' by some secularists in Tunisia, they were so suspicious.

Well the Saudi woman who posted here was very adamant about liking the things were in the Kingdom, but than again when that is all you know and you are brain washed by lying imams its not surprising, shit there weres slaves here in the US who were ok with slavery because it was all they knew and they were treated well in the house.

I understand we used to believe whipping was an appropriate punishment as long as the crime had really been committed. ..but I think they are on the move for change now.

However these countries are not Wahhabi, which Saudi Arabia is and although the Saudi's have managed to niggle in with their money and there are some Al Qaeda types, apart from the Saudi infiltration, I don't think there is a recent history of engaging in this type of punishment in the Arab world. I have my fingers crossed that they are going to properly rediscover traditional Islam which is much more moderate and where Islamic Law is subject to change and update.

Have you read this article. I think he hit's the nail on the head to the difficulties they have in repossessing themselves and finding their autonomy and deciding their future.

"Bernard Lewis Revisited" by Michael Hirsh

No I haven't read that, I will when I get a free minute.

 

[Dude111]

Most ppl only know Gaddaffi via MSM garbage which shouldnt be trusted @ all!!

If ya want the TRUTH on him,read this page: http://gagnauga.is/index.php?Fl=Greinar&ID=169

 

[Trajan]

I was watching a silly video of about an inane part of Quadaffi's rule. And I was struck by just how stoney broke the place is. Not just the civil war damage. The place provided 12% of the worlds oil, oil of the best quality that got premium prices. And the country was impoverished. The man took all that money that could have gone to all kinds of really cool ways to make the people of Libya comfortable and blew every penny on some kind of insanity or another.

One would think that some of that money would have benefited the people, but it looks like the place is worse off than if they were importing the oil, rather than exporting it all.

Random Libya video.

well, it depends on how you look at it and what the media shows you BM.

let me just say, its all relative, to say its neighbors etc. Libyans have over twice the per capita income and PPP ( purchasing power per individual) of say, an Egyptian, or a Tunisian, or a Peruvian....( around number 60 of 180 on the world index and ahead of many nations that may surprise you), and- the highest human development quotient on the continent (education, standard of living life expectancy) .......keeping in mind there are violent fractious tribes, sects, races ( Berbers etc., and have been forever, the Romans played tribes off one another) so yea, there are places that look like Hiroshima a month after the bomb...and always have , AND, always will.

 

[JStone]

Clothes are an interesting one as many Muslim women do claim it is what they want to wear. However Saudi women have recently got the right to be involved in Politics and they have been protesting for the right to drive by driving for some time, so they do seem to be working for change.

You would need to be a sadist though to agree with Taliban type punishment and I know that when they have tried to get people in the arab world into their way of thinking before, they have soon been sent packing.

Like I said in another thread for the first third of my life the only place that indulged in that sort of stuff was Saudi Arabia so hopefully there will be none of that. I do not see the people wanting it. The Moderate Islamist canditate in Tunisia had to put up with being called a 'terrorist' by some secularists in Tunisia, they were so suspicious.

Well the Saudi woman who posted here was very adamant about liking the things were in the Kingdom, but than again when that is all you know and you are brain washed by lying imams its not surprising, shit there weres slaves here in the US who were ok with slavery because it was all they knew and they were treated well in the house.

I understand we used to believe whipping was an appropriate punishment as long as the crime had really been committed. ..but I think they are on the move for change now.

However these countries are not Wahhabi, which Saudi Arabia is and although the Saudi's have managed to niggle in with their money and there are some Al Qaeda types, apart from the Saudi infiltration, I don't think there is a recent history of engaging in this type of punishment in the Arab world. I have my fingers crossed that they are going to properly rediscover traditional Islam which is much more moderate and where Islamic Law is subject to change and update.

Have you read this article. I think he hit's the nail on the head to the difficulties they have in repossessing themselves and finding their autonomy and deciding their future.

"Bernard Lewis Revisited" by Michael Hirsh

Hun, the shariah that sanctions the beating of women is the Islamic Constitution.

The Quran that all Muslimes worship sez women are mentally deficient.

Your nose is growing, Pinocchio