WinterBorn
Diamond Member
I appreciate your beliefs and your, seemingly, genuine good wishes for me.
But I am quite happy where I am in my life.
Zone1 Jesus Is My Rock My Sword And Shield
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I appreciate your beliefs and your, seemingly, genuine good wishes for me.
But I am quite happy where I am in my life.
Cougarbear
Platinum Member
- Jan 29, 2022
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Only makes logical reason sense that we have a mother there in Heaven. The Father and Mother of our spirits. The spirits that are in spirit prison too 1Peter chapters 3 and 4.
Not all truth has to be mentioned in the Bible. God is fully capable of revealing truth to others and having them record those truths. The Old testament mentions the stick of Judah and the stick of Joseph as a prophesy. The stick of Judah is the Bible and we believe the stick of Joseph is the Book of Mormon (see Ezekiel 37). God has the ability to reveal whatever he desires to reveal at anytime and place.
Here are lists of scriptures that reference our premortal existence before we were born on this earth:
Premortal Life
- See also Beginning; Council in Heaven; Man, Men; War in Heaven
- When God laid the foundations of the earth, all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:4–7.
- The spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.
- Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1:4–5.
- We are all his offspring, Acts 17:28.
- God chose us before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:3–4.
- We are to be in subjection to the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.
- The angels which kept not their first estate, he hath reserved in everlasting chains, Jude 1:6 (Abr. 3:26).
- The Devil and his angels were cast out, Rev. 12:9.
- They were called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13:3.
- Christ looked upon the expanse of eternity and hosts of heaven before the world was made, D&C 38:1.
- Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29 (Hel. 14:17; D&C 49:17).
- Noble spirits were chosen in the beginning to be rulers in the Church, D&C 138:53–55.
- Many received their first lessons in the world of spirits, D&C 138:56.
- All things were created spiritually before they were on earth, Moses 3:5.
- I made the world, and men before they were in the flesh, Moses 6:51.
- Abraham saw the intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3:21–24.
Man, Antemortal Existence of
- See also Council in Heaven; Foreordination; Man, a Spirit Child of Heavenly Father; Spirit Creation
- God of the spirits of all flesh, Num. 16:22 (27:16).
- all the sons of God shouted for joy, Job 38:7.
- the spirit shall return unto God who gave it, Eccl. 12:7.
- Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee, Jer. 1:5.
- Lord … formeth the spirit of man within him, Zech. 12:1.
- who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind, John 9:2.
- poets have said, For we are also his offspring, Acts 17:28.
- For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate, Rom. 8:29.
- chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, Eph. 1:4.
- subjection unto the Father of spirits, Heb. 12:9.
- angels which kept not their first estate, Jude 1:6.
- Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, Rev. 12:7.
- called and prepared from the foundation of the world, Alma 13:3.
- bringeth them back into the presence of the Lord, Hel. 14:17.
- third part of the hosts of heaven turned he away, D&C 29:36.
- seraphic hosts of heaven, before the world was made, D&C 38:1.
- man, according to his creation before the world, D&C 49:17.
- Man was also in the beginning with God, D&C 93:29.
- choice spirits who were reserved to come forth, D&C 138:53.
- before they were born … received their first lessons, D&C 138:56.
- in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, Moses 3:5.
- he beheld the spirits that God had created, Moses 6:36.
- intelligences that were organized before the world was, Abr. 3:22.
- he stood among those that were spirits, Abr. 3:23.
- took his spirit … and put it into him, Abr. 5:7.
- See also Prov. 8:22–31; John 1:2, 14; 8:58; 16:28; 17:5, 24; 2 Tim. 1:9; Titus 1:2; 3 Ne. 1:13; 26:5; Ether 3:16.
Adam and Eve's spirits existed along with all our spirits before the earth was created. It has been revealed that Adam is the great archangel Michael who fought as our leader in the great war in heaven. Job 38:7 shows that all the sons of God existed before the creation of this world. The Apostles wondered if the man who was born blind had sinned in order that he was born blind. He would have had to existed before his birth to have sinned. Jesus did not refute this notion but simply told them that neither man nor his parents sinned that he was born blind. Ephesian 1:3-4 tells us that many of us were chosen before the foundation of this world. Ecclesiastes 12:7 tells us that the spirit is to RETURN unto God upon death. The breath of life that was breathed into Adam and Eve was God allowing their premortal spirits to enter their bodies and caused them to breathe.
Abraham 5:7
7 And the Gods formed man from the dust of the ground, and took his spirit (that is, the man’s spirit), and put it into him; and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul.
Our spirits enter our bodies while we are in the womb. Our spirits exit our bodies upon death. We know there is a mother in heaven because we have been taught in latter-day revelation that the only way to have an increase or posterity in heaven is to be sealed or bound to a wife for all eternity and only through this union is it possible to have spirit children.
Doctrine and Covenants 131:
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.
God is a man who exists in the highest degree of the heavens. God is a being who has an increase or posterity. Thus we know that He himself has entered into the highest degree of heaven by entering into the everlasting covenant of marriage. The Apostle Paul taught and believed that we are the very offspring of God.
Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
We are the literal offspring of God (the Father and Mother). God is our literal progenitor of our spirits. We are their offspring! You, Irish Ram, are literally a daughter of God! We are spirit brother and sister. Jesus Christ is our elder brother. They love us very, very much. Jesus loves us so very much that He gave his life for us.
Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
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The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Not much at all has been revealed about our Mother in Heaven. We don't even know if the Father has a particular name. We don't know our Mother in Heaven either by any particular name. We only know of her because we know that God is an exalted man and that He could not be exalted or have an increase without a wife. Neither is the man without the woman neither the woman without the man in the Lord. God has set the example. We are the offspring of God.
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus doesn't seem to agree. Angels, and those who pass into the spirit world do not marry nor are they given in marriage. Genesis, in God's creation of people, says nothing of this--either in the creation of Adam or of Eve. It is only in the very recent LDS church (1841, less that 200 years ago) that the idea of being sealed to spouse in the next life arose.
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
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Traditional Judaism does not attribute the concept of sex to God.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
We are of one accord on that.
But, what about the sin you don't know you are committing? God gave the Jews over six hundred of them. Can we trust Jesus to have shed His blood for the the sins we overlook?
What about the original sin? That's a blood issue that requires a pure, sinless blood to wash away. ^ That is a salvation issue. Repenting is a behavioral issue. They are 2 separate things.
Even the creme de la creme of God's children had to wait in Abraham's Bosom until Christ died and paid for their sins. The first thing Jesus did after the cross was to go and get them.
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It seems that way because the children of Israel were under the law of Moses and did not have the Melchizedek priesthood. So when the Sadducees came to Jesus who did not even believe in the resurrection, asked his about a situation where a Jewish woman who married seven brothers, each after the previous one dies, an finally the woman dies. Under the Aaronic priesthood, there was no sealing power to bind of earth and in heaven so when they were dead none of the marriages were sealed or bound in heaven. Thus were of no force and were because marriage is not performed in heaven, they are not married but are as the angels in heaven. However, when Jesus came he restored the Melchizedek priesthood and under this higher priesthood, the power to bind in heaven whatsoever you bind on earth was given.
Matthew 22:19
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Here Peter is given the keys of the Melchizedek priesthood and is able from this time to bind in heaven WHATSOEVER he was to bind on earth. Thus if he were to bind a marriage on earth it could also be bound in heaven. The Melchizedek priesthood is a higher priesthood than the Aaronic priesthood which is what the Law of Moses was after.
Doctrine and Covenants 84:14-27
14 Which Abraham received the priesthood from Melchizedek, who received it through the lineage of his fathers, even till Noah;
15 And from Noah till Enoch, through the lineage of their fathers;
16 And from Enoch to Abel, who was slain by the conspiracy of his brother, who received the priesthood by the commandments of God, by the hand of his father Adam, who was the first man—
17 Which priesthood continueth in the church of God in all generations, and is without beginning of days or end of years.
18 And the Lord confirmed a priesthood also upon Aaron and his seed, throughout all their generations, which priesthood also continueth and abideth forever with the priesthood which is after the holiest order of God.
19 And this greater priesthood administereth the gospel and holdeth the key of the mysteries of the kingdom, even the key of the knowledge of God.
20 Therefore, in the ordinances thereof, the power of godliness is manifest.
21 And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;
22 For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live.
23 Now this Moses plainly taught to the children of Israel in the wilderness, and sought diligently to sanctify his people that they might behold the face of God;
24 But they hardened their hearts and could not endure his presence; therefore, the Lord in his wrath, for his anger was kindled against them, swore that they should not enter into his rest while in the wilderness, which rest is the fulness of his glory.
25 Therefore, he took Moses out of their midst, and the Holy Priesthood also;
26 And the lesser priesthood continued, which priesthood holdeth the key of the ministering of angels and the preparatory gospel;
27 Which gospel is the gospel of repentance and of baptism, and the remission of sins, and the law of carnal commandments, which the Lord in his wrath caused to continue with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel until John, whom God raised up, being filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother’s womb.
So, from the days of Moses until John the average person in the House of Israel could not hold the Melchizedek priesthood and only the sons of Levi were allowed to hold the Aaronic priesthood. Only to those who were very select of the Lord such as his prophets were the only ones who held the Melchizedek priesthood throughout that time. So the sealing power was not had among the children of Israel from the time the Melchizedek priesthood was taken from their midst until Jesus. Thus in answer to the Sadducees' scenario, Jesus taught them that their marriages were not sealed in heaven and under such a condition they would not be married in heaven but be like unto the angel's of God being single in heaven. The sealing or binding power is a key that belongs to the higher Melchizedek priesthood. Only when one holds those keys are they able to bind in heaven whatsoever they bind on earth, including marriage. Marriage must be performed on this earth for they neither marry nor are given in marriage in heaven so the ordinance must be performed here on this earth.
Traditional Judaism does not attribute to Jesus the title of Christ either.
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
But what if that premise is incorrect? We only know of one disciple that was married. None of the rest are exalted?
The Irish Ram
LITTLE GIRL / Ram Tough
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
No one can support a Anti-Christ then call themselves a Christian.
Love the Bible talk , they have their own language , they don't formulate opinions they find something that supports their angst and use that biblical term to speak to each other and to answer questions. I really think God expects more out of people then that.
Meriweather
Not all who wander are lost
- Oct 21, 2014
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Notice your posts. I present Jesus' actual words. You promptly go to LDS canon and also cite an entirely different Old Testament account that has nothing to do with Jesus' words on marriage and the afterlife. That Jews hold no belief that Jesus is the promised messiah has no bearing on their lessons about God, who is beyond describing. They were adamant that referring God as 'he' was there personification of the Supreme because people understand personification.
PS: I don't read LDS Doctrines and Covenants. It's of no interest to me.
Lack of evidence that the apostles were married is not a conclusion that they were not. From the beginning marriage was sanctioned by God:
Genesis 2:24
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Even in the New Testament this teaching still occurs:
Ephesians 5:30-33
30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.
The Apostle Paul seems to indicate that other apostles had wives as well as many of the brethren of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 9:5
5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
The following scripture tends to bolster the idea that man an woman should be together in the Lord:
1 Corinthians 11:11
11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
Here is an interesting read on the subject of evidence of marriages of the Apostles - The Apostles That Were Married
Again, just because we don't have written evidence that all the Apostles were married does not imply that they were not. For all we know, at some point they all may have been married.
Personally since God has sanctioned marriage from the beginning and commanded us to multiply an replenish the earth, I think God expects us to marry and to have children. I believe this is also an eternal commandment that we marry to have an eternal increase through being bound together by the priesthood of God for not just time but for all eternity.
Not sure if you are thinking that I am saying that Jesus didn't believe in the resurrection but I'm not. I am saying that the Sadducees did not believe in the resurrection. Yes, Jesus is the resurrection and the life. Jesus truly resurrected and will bring about the resurrection of all mankind who have taken on bodies of flesh and bones in this life.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.
Well, I give you my beliefs base on what I believe the revelations of God are. You can take it or leave it. But if you engage in a discussion with me I am going to give you what I believe and not dance around the issue an try to only hold to what you believe. If you don't like it, you can simply not reply to my posts. If you reply to my posts, you are going to get the why of why I believe what I do. If it is of no interest to you, that is your problem.
BreezeWood
VIP Member
- Oct 26, 2011
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christianity does not exist and their use of jesus is the outcome of their crucifixion and the false 4th century christian bible ... not what they taught, liberation theology, self determination the heavenly religion of antiquity.
when the crucifiers are brought to justice there will be no christians left to talk to.
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