It’s Time to Formally Declare America A Christian Nation.

[Zincwarrior]

As I say, trolls need this forum. Not just like, but need.

It feels like now your hypocrisy has extended further, in that you just called me a troll, merely for discussing your own thread.

 

[Mashmont]

It feels like now your hypocrisy has extended further, in that you just called me a troll, merely for discussing your own thread.

I simply described a group. It's up to you if you think you are a troll who needs this forum.

 

[Zincwarrior]

That's a copout and you know it. I expected better.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

NFBW wrote; Five observable facts for further discussion.

1. a twenty year old waitress is a viable human being
2. Correll self identifies as Cultural Christian. struth says he was raised Catholic and is Catholic.
3. American taxpayers ordered, procured, manufactured and delivered to the US military 2000-pound laser-guided GBU-24 bunker-buster bombs and B2 bombers
4. In a January 13 2003 address to diplomats, Pope John Paul II said, “No to war! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity. International law, honest dialogue, solidarity between States, the noble exercise of diplomacy: these are methods worthy of individuals and nations in resolving their differences.”
5. on 7 April a taxpayer funded B2 bomber dropped four 2000-pound laser-guided GBU-24 bunker-buster bombs on the Al Saa Restaurant in the al Mansour District of Baghdad.
6. Toby Keith sang a song: “Hey, Uncle Sam put your name(s) at the top of his list” (The Angry American)
7. Listed iin order of innocent civilians killed at the start of the Iraq invasion - numbers 59, 60, 61 and 62 who were killed by the US tax paid bombing of a restaurant in the Mansour District of Baghdad: - - - 58th on the list is Salma Amin 50 (father of Mohammed, Said, and Shams)….. 59th on the list is Mohammed Amin 27 (son of Salma) ….. 60th Said Amin 24 ; (son of Salma) .....061 Shams Amin 20 (daughter of Salma) she was a waitress
8. An American taxpayingb Catholic with screen name struth on May 2, 2021 in post #296 wrote;
   Saddam was half hearted and wouldn't fully open up, or produce all the documents.

9. Religious Left Goes Anti-War on Iraq By Rebecca Phillips January 7, 2006 Religious Left Goes Anti-War on Iraq​

So, in your mind, Catholics SHOULD defer to the opinion of the Pope in political matters? That is quite an reactionary position. Would you be happy if Biden did so on the Abortion issue?

I supported the invasion of Iraq at the time. I have since realized that support was in error on moral grounds. I should have heeded the words of St. John Paul II when he opposed it.

The Iraq War was a success, before Obama took office...

Bush invaded because Saddam wouldn't allow the inspections

No, more wars are started by atheists

Exactly who are the atheists?

NFBW wrote: If we take Mashmont at his good Christian Word, its the atheists who start wars. Pope John Paul II said, “No to war! However, Mashmont and fellow Catholic struth , at the time 2003, knew better than the Holy Father of all Catholicism and supported the use of US Tax Dollars to put a boot up the ass of the people of Iraq,

It appears that Mashmont succumbed to temporary atheism in the march to a bloody and unnecessary war in the winter of 2003 with all the flags glitter and regalia of launching a crusade.

Myself and Pope John Paul II and the religious left opposed invading Iraq.

I went to the streets in DC to protest but the religious right and Fox NEWS and atheist Chris Hitchens and Mashmont got their rightwing Christian Shock and Awe invasion into a Muslim land.

They forced me to pay my tax dollars to be used to abort the innocent life
of Shams Amin and half a million other Iraqis on her land.

And now our very own “temporary atheist” living the good family life that the viable Amin family from the Mansour District in Baghdad will never have, has a complaint:

You most certainly are imposing your religion on me when you force me to pay for abortions through my tax dollars. I will not sit idly by while you do it. I will fight the rest of my life for the right of those unborn little babies to live.

22FEB09-POST#1084

 

[FA_Q2]

I'll quote St. Paul again, in case you forgot

1 Let everyone submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which derives from God, and whatever authorities exist have been instituted by God. 2 Consequently, anyone who resists authority is rebelling against what God has appointed, and those who so resist will bring judgment upon themselves.

3 Rulers are a source of fear not to those who do good but rather to those who do evil. Do you wish to be free of fear from someone in authority? Then continue to do what is right and you will receive his approval. 4 For he is acting as God’s representative for your welfare. But if you do what is evil, then be afraid for he does not wear a sword for nothing. People in authority are God’s servants to mete out punishment to wrongdoers.

5 Therefore, you are obliged to submit, not only because of fear of punishment but also because of conscience. 6 That is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, and they devote themselves to this service. 7 Pay to each person what is rightfully his—taxes to the one to whom taxes are due, tolls to the one to whom tolls are due, respect to the one to whom respect is due, honor to the one to whom honor is due.

Now Paul was telling those 1st century Christians to submit to a Pagan government. Is that materially different from an Atheist government? Resisting evil, in the context of the New Testament, was when those in power, those in control of that Pagan government, wanted you to do something that violated your Christian conscience, like make a sacrifice to Jupiter or be considered a traitor to the state. Or when Paul and Peter were ordered to stop preaching the Gospel. "We ought to obey God rather than men."

 

[WinterBorn]

It feels like now your hypocrisy has extended further, in that you just called me a troll, merely for discussing your own thread.

Yeah, his definition of "troll" is based on your argument, not on actual trolling. But if it makes him feel better so be it.

He put me on ignore for being a troll. But what I had done was engage him and provide valid arguments.

 

[Mashmont]

Yeah, his definition of "troll" is based on your argument, not on actual trolling. But if it makes him feel better so be it.

He put me on ignore for being a troll. But what I had done was engage him and provide valid arguments.

NFBW wrote; Five observable facts for further discussion.

1. a twenty year old waitress is a viable human being
2. Correll self identifies as Cultural Christian. struth says he was raised Catholic and is Catholic.
3. American taxpayers ordered, procured, manufactured and delivered to the US military 2000-pound laser-guided GBU-24 bunker-buster bombs and B2 bombers
4. In a January 13 2003 address to diplomats, Pope John Paul II said, “No to war! War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity. International law, honest dialogue, solidarity between States, the noble exercise of diplomacy: these are methods worthy of individuals and nations in resolving their differences.”
5. on 7 April a taxpayer funded B2 bomber dropped four 2000-pound laser-guided GBU-24 bunker-buster bombs on the Al Saa Restaurant in the al Mansour District of Baghdad.
6. Toby Keith sang a song: “Hey, Uncle Sam put your name(s) at the top of his list” (The Angry American)
7. Listed iin order of innocent civilians killed at the start of the Iraq invasion - numbers 59, 60, 61 and 62 who were killed by the US tax paid bombing of a restaurant in the Mansour District of Baghdad: - - - 58th on the list is Salma Amin 50 (father of Mohammed, Said, and Shams)….. 59th on the list is Mohammed Amin 27 (son of Salma) ….. 60th Said Amin 24 ; (son of Salma) .....061 Shams Amin 20 (daughter of Salma) she was a waitress
8. An American taxpayingb Catholic with screen name struth on May 2, 2021 in post #296 wrote;
   Saddam was half hearted and wouldn't fully open up, or produce all the documents.

9. Religious Left Goes Anti-War on Iraq By Rebecca Phillips January 7, 2006 Religious Left Goes Anti-War on Iraq​

NFBW wrote: If we take Mashmont at his good Christian Word, its the atheists who start wars. Pope John Paul II said, “No to war! However, Mashmont and fellow Catholic struth , at the time 2003, knew better than the Holy Father of all Catholicism and supported the use of US Tax Dollars to put a boot up the ass of the people of Iraq,

It appears that Mashmont succumbed to temporary atheism in the march to a bloody and unnecessary war in the winter of 2003 with all the flags glitter and regalia of launching a crusade.

Myself and Pope John Paul II and the religious left opposed invading Iraq.

I went to the streets in DC to protest but the religious right and Fox NEWS and atheist Chris Hitchens and Mashmont got their rightwing Christian Shock and Awe invasion into a Muslim land.

They forced me to pay my tax dollars to be used to abort the innocent life
of Shams Amin and half a million other Iraqis on her land.

And now our very own “temporary atheist” living the good family life that the viable Amin family from the Mansour District in Baghdad will never have, has a complaint:



22FEB09-POST#1084

Atheists do start most wars. That's a fact.

And although I no longer support the Iraq invasion, I understand the logic behind it. George W. Bush knew history and saw how Hitler, the brutal atheist dictator took tens of millions of innocent lives during his murderous regime. Had someone taken out Hitler in the 1930s before he became really powerful, they could have prevented those deaths. Bush saw the pre-emptive strike against Saddam the same way. Our intelligence had reported Saddam was developing WMD, Saddam had threatened to annihilate the US, and Bush was going to stop it before it happened.
But whatever a noble goal that was, I now realize that you cannot kill thousands pre-emptively over something that might happen. I agree with St. John Paul on this. But the leftwing atheists opposed the war for reasons not nearly as noble. They hated George Bush and everything he did. They also hated America and protected Islamic terrorists over American liberty. So their goal was to oppose Bush and nothing else. They didn't give a damn about people dying.

 

[WinterBorn]

Atheists do start most wars. That's a fact.

And although I no longer support the Iraq invasion, I understand the logic behind it. George W. Bush knew history and saw how Hitler, the brutal atheist dictator took tens of millions of innocent lives during his murderous regime. Had someone taken out Hitler in the 1930s before he became really powerful, they could have prevented those deaths. Bush saw the pre-emptive strike against Saddam the same way. Our intelligence had reported Saddam was developing WMD, Saddam had threatened to annihilate the US, and Bush was going to stop it before it happened.
But whatever a noble goal that was, I now realize that you cannot kill thousands pre-emptively over something that might happen. I agree with St. John Paul on this. But the leftwing atheists opposed the war for reasons not nearly as noble. They hated George Bush and everything he did. They also hated America and protected Islamic terrorists over American liberty. So their goal was to oppose Bush and nothing else. They didn't give a damn about people dying.

Most of the people I know who opposed the war did so because of the lives lost, regardless of which side they were on. Many opposed sending young Americans to die.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I no longer support the Iraq invasion

NFBW wrote: I understood your words to say that you supported the invasion of Iraq at the time and you have since realized that your support was in error on moral grounds as well as opposed to the teaching of Jesus Christ your lord and savior.

(1) How many Iraqis were dead injured and displaced prior to your realization that what our US tax dollars were doing in that part of the world was morally wrong? What year was that?

(2) Is this your confession that
the religious left who opposed the war at the time because they knew it was morally wrong were correct? They were much more aligned with Pope John Paul II That it always was a moral depravity to
invade Iraq in a preemptive war.
22FEB09-POST#1089

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I understand the logic behind it. George W. Bush knew history and saw how Hitler, the brutal atheist dictator took tens of millions of innocent lives during his murderous regime. Had someone taken out Hitler in the 1930s before he became really powerful, they could have prevented those deaths. Bush saw the pre-emptive strike against Saddam the same way. Our intelligence had reported Saddam was developing WMD, Saddam had threatened to annihilate the US, and Bush was going to stop it before it happened.

NFBW wrote:

1. One did Hitler command the most powerful military in the world at the time and was planning to expand beyond set borders? Armored infantry divisions against horse drawn canon. SH was not in that place.
2. Prior to the invasion were United Nations weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq for three months prior to GW Bush‘s decision to invade?
3. The Germans had an Air Force. Did Saddam Hussein have an Air Force? In modern warfare there is no prayer military conquest if you don’t have an Air Force

IF the “religious left“ knew it was morally wrong to start a preemptive war, and was easily aware of all of the above, why did you and the “religious right” , not know it and lack the moral character that your religion is supposed to teach you, to oppose an unjust immoral preemptive war? Bush told you it was going to be a preemptive war before it began. And none of the factors that were in play in 1939 Germany applied as a reason to invade Iraq in March 2003. 22FEB09-POST#1090

 

[Mashmont]

NFBW wrote:

1. One did Hitler command the most powerful military in the world at the time and was planning to expand beyond set borders? Armored infantry divisions against horse drawn canon. SH was not in that place.
2. Prior to the invasion were United Nations weapons inspectors on the ground in Iraq for three months prior to GW Bush‘s decision to invade?
3. The Germans had an Air Force. Did Saddam Hussein have an Air Force? In modern warfare there is no prayer military conquest if you don’t have an Air Force

IF the “religious left“ knew it was morally wrong to start a preemptive war, and was easily aware of all of the above, why did you and the “religious right” , not know it and lack the moral character that your religion is supposed to teach you, to oppose an unjust immoral preemptive war? Bush told you it was going to be a preemptive war before it began. And none of the factors that were in play in 1939 Germany applied as a reason to invade Iraq in March 2003. 22FEB09-POST#1090

1. There is no such thing as the 'religious left' and certainly not the Christian left.
2. As I said, the left did not oppose the Iraq War on moral grounds; they couldn't care less about morality. They just hated Bush and opposed everything he did.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

2. As I said, the left did not oppose the Iraq War on moral grounds; they couldn't care less about morality. They just hated Bush and opposed everything he did.

NFBW wrote: What you say means nothing. You are not God. You must be confused that believing in a god makes you a god and your word goes. I supported George W. Bush going into Afghanistan like 90% of Americans did including most of the religious left. We should’ve stayed focused there and never gone into Iraq. We never should have abandoned Afghanistan of military resources the way that GW Bush did. The black churches opposed the US invasion of Iraq and they are a key part of the religious left. If you don’t think black churches are Christians with different political views than yours, just put the big red letter R on your forehead, Thats about as racist as it gets. Think about what you’re saying. You’re saying that Pope John Paul II could only oppose the war because he hates Bush. the religious left and the black church opposed the war in Iraq same as the pope. And they are the ones that should have a say. Do you believe all black churches who vote Democrat are immoral people incapable of Christian living? 22FEB09-POST#1092

 

[NotfooledbyW]

1. There is no such thing as the 'religious left' and certainly not the Christian left.

NFBW wrote: Black Americans are very religious and primarily Christian. The churches in sales members are very political on the left. You may have heard of some famous ones by the river in Martin Luther King junior. Is there no such thing as Martin Luther King. 22FEB09-POST#1093.

 

[Mashmont]

Yeah, his definition of "troll" is based on your argument, not on actual trolling. But if it makes him feel better so be it.

He put me on ignore for being a troll. But what I had done was engage him and provide valid arguments.

I'll converse with you again if you can refrain from the namecalling.

 

[Zincwarrior]

1. There is no such thing as the 'religious left' and certainly not the Christian left.
2. As I said, the left did not oppose the Iraq War on moral grounds; they couldn't care less about morality. They just hated Bush and opposed everything he did.

Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, Northern Baptists, Catholics etc. etc.

 

[Mashmont]

NFBW wrote: Black Americans are very religious and primarily Christian. The churches in sales members are very political on the left. You may have heard of some famous ones by the river in Martin Luther King junior. Is there no such thing as Martin Luther King. 22FEB09-POST#1093.

Any church that is fine with abortion is not a Christian church, though they may call themselves that. God did not change His mind on gay marriage or abortion as some of the mainline protestant churches have.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Any church that is fine with abortion is not a Christian church, though they may call themselves that. God did not change His mind on gay marriage or abortion as some of the mainline protestant churches have.

Now you speak for God? Very impressive.

 

[Mashmont]

Episcopalians, Methodists, Lutherans, Northern Baptists, Catholics etc. etc.

I can't speak for the others, but the in One True Church, The Roman Catholic, one CANNOT be a practicing Catholic while being a leftwinger. They are mutually exclusive.

 

[Mashmont]

Now you speak for God? Very impressive.

I speak for God's teaching. I know what He taught. It's available in my church.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I can't speak for the others, but the in One True Church, The Roman Catholic, one CANNOT be a practicing Catholic while being a leftwinger. They are mutually exclusive.

Someone better tell the Pope...oh wait he is one.

I speak for God's teaching. I know what He taught. It's available in my church.

When did God personally anoint you?