It's in the Bible!!!

[konradv]

Originally in "Science & technology", I thought it should get some play here.
Thanks to the OP, JBeukema.


Did clay mould life's origins?

Job 33:5 (KJV)

Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

 

[Si modo]

If one assumes that the vermiculite they used is completely free of any biomaterials or of inorganics and/or organics not originating from biological systems, a completely bio-free naturally occuring inorganic material is able to induce asymmetry as a catalyst for organic reactions.

That's a really big deal. Really.

Thanks for posting.

 

[Si modo]

In English and as it relates to religion, what this means:

In nature (read, biological systems) the molecules involved have this thing called chirality or handedness. If the molecules in a system have an equal amount of left handed molecules as right handed molecules, the system is said to be symmetric. However, biochemical systems are asymmetric having much more of a handedness, usually left handedness. In the laboratory, we can do all the reactions that a biosystem can do. If we want to do the reactions symmetrically (equal amounts of handedness) that's not a problem. But, if we want to do the reactions with asymmetry (more of left handedness, for example), we must induce that asymmetry in some manner.

Asymmetric induction of biochemical reactions is realized by adding a catalyst with a one handedness/chirality in excess or reaction components with one handedness/chirality in excess. And, these materials always have had their origins in something made biologically.

Because of that, the origin of an excess handedness required in biosystems has only ever been repeated in the lab from materials originating from something living. The ultimate origin of excess handedness has never been from something completely earthly and inorganic and independent of anything living.

Many favoring "Intelligent Design" have used this fact - necessary handedness excess coming only from already living systems - as a basis for the explanation that there must be some God providing this asymmetric induction.

This may rock their world as here is an apparent method of inducing asymmetry from an earthly, inorganic, non-living source.

 

[Marie888]

Just a note: It is my personal opinion that upon the study of the flagellum, particularily the bacterial flagellum, that men are without excuse to NOT believe in God. It's got like a little rotary engine. Impossible for that to just come from "nothing."

Flagellum
Flagellum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


As for clay:
However the Lord did it, we may study and find out things, but we still have not even touched on the surface on the complexity of His Creation. It is awesome, indeed. Aye, we are the clay, He is the Potter.

Isaiah 64:8
But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

 

[konradv]

Just a note: It is my personal opinion that upon the study of the flagellum, particularily the bacterial flagellum, that men are without excuse to NOT believe in God. It's got like a little rotary engine. Impossible for that to just come from "nothing".

How do you know it's impossible? They say the same thing about the eye, but it easily could have come about in stages. IMO, the same thing could be said about the flagellum. You can't take as gospel the word of whomever said this , because they invariably leave out the other side of the story.

As for coming from "nothing", neither theists or atheists would say that. Theists who believe in evolution would say it comes from the rules God laid down. Atheists would say, the world and the laws of nature aren't "nothing" and you're just playing with words to make your case.

 

[Marie888]

Just a note: It is my personal opinion that upon the study of the flagellum, particularily the bacterial flagellum, that men are without excuse to NOT believe in God. It's got like a little rotary engine. Impossible for that to just come from "nothing".

How do you know it's impossible? They say the same thing about the eye, but it easily could have come about in stages. IMO, the same thing could be said about the flagellum. You can't take as gospel the word of whomever said this , because they invariably leave out the other side of the story.

As for coming from "nothing", neither theists or atheists would say that. Theists who believe in evolution would say it comes from the rules God laid down. Atheists would say, the world and the laws of nature aren't "nothing" and you're just playing with words to make your case.

I could reply to this many ways. The argument goes back in forth and in great detail.

I can't make someone believe, but I know because I know God exists and Created us, because I have a personal relationship with Him - That is, Jesus Christ our Lord. Of course, the argument against that is, "well what about all those other people who claim they know God? (other religions, Islam, etc who claim its the truth)"

To that I reply, go right to the source. Ask Him yourself. Yes, that means talking and/or praying to Him to ask Him "are you real?", "what is the truth"? "Is Jesus the only way?" "why are there so many other religions?" Basically anything.

In other words, I know that if someone is sincere in their heart and they want to know if God is real and seek Him, they WILL find Him. Because He has promised. He's God, He knows when we are "faking" it or not, or just set out to try to disprove Him. It won't work that way because He already knows the heart is hardened. But if someone comes seeking Him with full heart - be ready, because He promised He'll answer. (See Deut 4:29 in the Bible)

I also personally don't understand why those who are atheists or don't believe don't go right to the source - Him anyhow. Isn't that what we try to do in science or anything else we want to know?

Other than that, here's a video that goes about it in a funnier/sillier way, just for fun. : )
Enjoy!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0donCN_IUhI]YouTube - ATHEISTS: How To Make Their Heads Explode[/ame]

 

[peach174]

What are some of the elements found in clay?
Silicates, water,iron,calcium,sodium. All found in the human body.
In Genesis 2:7 it says that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
I have a question for those that think Man made up God. How did ancient Man know that clay or dust had all of these elements in order to write that in Genesis?
It proves to me that God told Men what to write.

 

[Jos]

The Bible
Spoiler alert! Turns Out He Dies in the End |

 

[Lyte]

What are some of the elements found in clay?
Silicates, water,iron,calcium,sodium. All found in the human body.
In Genesis 2:7 it says that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
I have a question for those that think Man made up God. How did ancient Man know that clay or dust had all of these elements in order to write that in Genesis?
It proves to me that God told Men what to write.

Take anything that is in nature, clay, granite, tree branch, handful of water etc. and human body has all of those elements in it.
Clay however is mainly made of silicates (Si and O) which are really marginal elements in human body. Clay doesn't have carbon in it which makes about 18% of the human body, so forgive me if i don't accept your proof.

Elements in human body.

Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)

 

[Wingsofwind]

What are some of the elements found in clay?
Silicates, water,iron,calcium,sodium. All found in the human body.
In Genesis 2:7 it says that God formed man of the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life.
I have a question for those that think Man made up God. How did ancient Man know that clay or dust had all of these elements in order to write that in Genesis?
It proves to me that God told Men what to write.

Take anything that is in nature, clay, granite, tree branch, handful of water etc. and human body has all of those elements in it.
Clay however is mainly made of silicates (Si and O) which are really marginal elements in human body. Clay doesn't have carbon in it which makes about 18% of the human body, so forgive me if i don't accept your proof.

Elements in human body.

Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)

All of what you listed there have been found in soil and some if not all are also found in water. Clay can be made from many types of soil and water from many different places. There are many ways of making clay. So you can not just go by the way it is made and sold today.

 

[konradv]

Just a note: It is my personal opinion that upon the study of the flagellum, particularily the bacterial flagellum, that men are without excuse to NOT believe in God. It's got like a little rotary engine. Impossible for that to just come from "nothing".

How do you know it's impossible? They say the same thing about the eye, but it easily could have come about in stages. IMO, the same thing could be said about the flagellum. You can't take as gospel the word of whomever said this , because they invariably leave out the other side of the story.

As for coming from "nothing", neither theists or atheists would say that. Theists who believe in evolution would say it comes from the rules God laid down. Atheists would say, the world and the laws of nature aren't "nothing" and you're just playing with words to make your case.

I could reply to this many ways. The argument goes back in forth and in great detail.

I can't make someone believe, but I know because I know God exists and Created us, because I have a personal relationship with Him - That is, Jesus Christ our Lord. Of course, the argument against that is, "well what about all those other people who claim they know God? (other religions, Islam, etc who claim its the truth)"

To that I reply, go right to the source. Ask Him yourself. Yes, that means talking and/or praying to Him to ask Him "are you real?", "what is the truth"? "Is Jesus the only way?" "why are there so many other religions?" Basically anything.

In other words, I know that if someone is sincere in their heart and they want to know if God is real and seek Him, they WILL find Him. Because He has promised. He's God, He knows when we are "faking" it or not, or just set out to try to disprove Him. It won't work that way because He already knows the heart is hardened. But if someone comes seeking Him with full heart - be ready, because He promised He'll answer. (See Deut 4:29 in the Bible)

I also personally don't understand why those who are atheists or don't believe don't go right to the source - Him anyhow. Isn't that what we try to do in science or anything else we want to know?

Other than that, here's a video that goes about it in a funnier/sillier way, just for fun. : )
Enjoy!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0donCN_IUhI]YouTube - ATHEISTS: How To Make Their Heads Explode[/ame]

Thank you, but this thread isn't even about theism vs atheism. Rather, it's about another piece of the puzzle that shows that life in all its complexity could have sprung up abiotically. That's not atheistic in the slightest. It shows that Creation could very well be the setting down of the Laws of Nature with evoluution being the method by which those laws led to life on earth and probably elsewhere.

 

[LumpyPostage]

This explains the dreidel song.

I have a little human/I made it out of clay
When it's dry and ready/then human I shall play
Human, human, human/I made it out of clay
Human, human, human/then human I shall play

It has a lovely body/with legs so short and thin
When it gets all tired/it drops and then I win
Human, human, human/with leg so short and thin
Human, human, human/it drops and then I win

The Bible
Spoiler alert! Turns Out He Dies in the End |

At least I can still see the movie. They probably changed the ending.

 

[hortysir]

The Bible
Spoiler alert! Turns Out He Dies in the End |

Actually, at the end of the Bible, we ALL die.
The trick is how many stay that way.....

 

[Marie888]

Thank you, but this thread isn't even about theism vs atheism. Rather, it's about another piece of the puzzle that shows that life in all its complexity could have sprung up abiotically. That's not atheistic in the slightest. It shows that Creation could very well be the setting down of the Laws of Nature with evoluution being the method by which those laws led to life on earth and probably elsewhere.

Oy vey! Thanks for letting me know. My apologies konradv, I'm very sorry and I think I misunderstood and also that your discussion is above my pay grade, lol. My bad! There was the quote in scripture, then we talked about the flagellum, and believe I may have misunderstood you there too. I thought you were coming from an "unbelievers" side, I'm sorry about that!

Just sharing, discussing, hope that is ok... As for evolution, my personal belief (from God's Word) is that we did not "evolve" per say from apes, etc, and/or on down the line. But that God created us in His image, as per Genesis. That we are also different from plants/animals, etc. As so many verses in Genesis talk about "after it's kind". A plant is still a plant, a horse is still a horse, etc. As for how He did it all, it will be amazing to know. But if He can part the seas, as He did with Moses, anything is possible for Him within the elements He created. It blows me away, Awesome God!

One of my favorites videos on the subject, if your interesed. If not,please just disregard
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8GgrUposII]YouTube - Creation Seminar 4 - Kent Hovind - Lies In The Textbooks (FULL)[/ame]






.

 

[konradv]

Marie sez: (sorry didn't feel like repeating your whole post)

As so many verses in Genesis talk about "after it's kind". A plant is still a plant, a horse is still a horse, etc.

Evolutionists don't believe there is a change of "kind" either. Evolutionary theory speaks of "branching" and when that happens the new species would be of the same "kind" as the old. But since evolutionists believe that the earth is billions of years old, not 10,000 as in the video, there have been many branches over the eons, such that two species do not appear to be of the same "kind". In that case you have to go deeper, to the DNA. It's remarkably similar up and down the chain of life and there's where you find that humans, plants and animals are ALL of the same kind.

 

[rightwinger]

Humans were made out of clay?

And creationists balk at descending from apes?

 

[Mr Natural]

Humans were made out of clay?

And creationists balk at descending from apes?

Some people have feet of clay.

(Whatever that's supposed to mean.)

 

[rightwinger]

Humans were made out of clay?

And creationists balk at descending from apes?

Some people have feet of clay.

(Whatever that's supposed to mean.)

Who humans really descended from..

 

[boedicca]

Originally in "Science & technology", I thought it should get some play here.
Thanks to the OP, JBeukema.


Did clay mould life's origins?

Job 33:5 (KJV)

Behold, I am according to thy wish in God's stead: I also am formed out of the clay.

Elihu was an ancestor of GUMBY?

Who knew?

 

[LumpyPostage]

Pokey does look like a Democrat.