it seems as if social con bigots were wrong once again

[bodecea]

Funny about this adultry...we had a senior chief's who's wife cheated on him with another chief. They divorced and she married the other chief who reminded her to go after the senior chief's retirement in the divorce settlement.

No charges there, even tho the Navy and everyone around knew about the affair.

 

[JoeB131]

I'm guessing you've never been in.

My first command....wife swapping for O-4s and above...no one got discharged.

My overseas command....groupies working their way thru the officers and senior enlisted...no one got discharged...but one jr officer who wrote his wife about what was going on was threatened with bodily harm and career destroying fitreps.

The example you give of the wife-swapping, everyone involved was a consenting adult. The behavior was STILL in violation of military regulations on adultery.

Obviously, someone had a problem with Witt seducing his wife. Definitely conduct unbecoming. So that was your best example? Really? Sounds to me like she was a bad apple.

Yeah...that's why she was decorated.

But she also broke the regulations.

Sergeant Major of the Army under Clinton. Forget the guy's name without googling it, but he was the most decorated NCO the Army had at the time. Didn't matter. He broke the rules on adultery, perjury and sexual harrassment. They busted him down to E-8 and gave him an administrative discharge.

Now, the one thing I noticed that the officers were always a bit "clubbish", they all looked out for each other, and made excuses for each other. Like one incident where an officer told a senior NCO in my unit to not turn in training ammo because it would be too much paperwork. (It was convoluted.) When the shit hit the fan (and it always does) the NCO got hung out to dry.

You know Major Nidal Hasan? You think he'd have been kept in if he were Sergeant Hasan?

So Witt must have really crossed a line when she seduced a junior officer's wife. She'd have probably been discharged for the adultery if she were a man.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Of all the gays discharged under DADT, the most evil, the most pernicious has to be Margaret Witt. Her transgression was seducing the wife of another officer into an adulterous relationship

So Witt must have really crossed a line when she seduced a junior officer's wife. She'd have probably been discharged for the adultery if she were a man.

Anyone want to take stab at factually substantiating the claim that Laurie McChesney (Major Witt's partner) was the wife of a military officer?

I've found no such mention in a review of the case documents. As a matter of fact the 9th Circuit Court notes:

"During their relationship, Major Witt and her partner shared a home in Spokane, Washington, about 250 miles away from McChord Air Force Base."​

Instead of examining her behavior, which was unbecoming to an officer under any circumstances, she demanded and got a pass because she's a lesbian. Which is an IDEAL example of what the military intends to become.

She got a pass on adultery because the Air Force did not charge her with adultery, probably because when you review the standards from the Manual of the Courts Martial (2008 Edition, part of the factors to consider were whether there was any abuse of government time and resources (kind of hard when the home was 250 miles away) and (to quote directly) "Whether the accused or co-actor was legally separated;". If Ms. McChesney was separated from her husband during the time in question, then the likelihood of Major Witt ever being convicted of Adultery is suspect.


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[JoeB131]

Happy to oblige...

DADT Drama in Trial: Margaret Witt asked for a trial to contest her discharge; now the government is ready to put her relationships under the microscope: News section: Metro Weekly gay news

In court documents and depositions leading up the this week's trial, the Department of Justice has revealed that the person who alerted military officials to Witt's being gay was not the ex-lover but rather the ex-husband of her current lover, Laurie McChesney. And DOJ contends Witt became sexually involved with McChesney while McChesney was still married to her husband.

According to West's brief, Witt's unit commander recommended Witt be separated from the service: ''Among the reasons for this recommendation: plaintiff 'engaged in homosexual acts with . . . a married woman, on diverse occasions from on or about November 2003 to on or about January 2004….''

Because Judge Leighton has rejected Witt's attorneys' request to exclude the information that Witt's relationship with Laurie McChesney was, for a time, taking place while McChesney was still married to her husband, the DOJ will apparently attempt to justify Witt's discharge based on other conduct, in addition to her being gay.

''[A]n officer who engages in adultery risks compromising her stature as an officer,'' wrote West in his August 23 brief. ''The risks of such behavior were enunciated long ago by Congress in Articles 133 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which subjects officers regardless of sexual orientation to punishment for adultery in certain circumstances. By reducing those risks, plaintiff's discharge furthers unit cohesion, morale, and good order and discipline.''

So, yeah, technically, she was tossed out for being gay, but the adultery charge was cited by the military as well in appeals. And even at the end of it all, the settlement the Air Force reached with her after DADT was lifted did not require them to put her back in uniform.

 

[Katzndogz]

[
Yes, it was the cuckolded husband who filed the complaint and pursued it. As he had a right to do. Witt got away with it because she's a lesbian. Next time it might be a victim of gay harassment themselves, special dispensation given to the gays.

My understanding was that Witt was discharged, so she didn't get away with it.

That said, not a lot of sympathy for the husband. His complaint SHOULD be with his wife. She's a grownup who made her own decisions, and if she was really gay all along and just married him to please her family or something, then he's probably better off that the relationship ended.

Then again, knowing your wife left you for a chick is... well, humiliating.

Witt was discharged, sued, was one of the cases used to overturn DADT and has been reinstated.

 

[Mr.Nick]

Active duty gays say coming out has been nonevent - Yahoo! News

Morgan decided the time was right to come out to her commander. The photograph of her wife and 4-year-old daughter she kept hidden on her desk helped her do it.

"I said, 'Sir, I would like to introduce you to someone. This is my family,'" Morgan recalled of her July conversation with her boss, an Army colonel leading a 2,400-solider brigade. "He said, 'Charlie, you have a beautiful family. You know, "don't ask, don't tell" prevented me from getting to know you.'"

social cons are becoming more and more irrelevant and us small government advocates couldn't be happier

Yeah that is why the Nazi's are supporting your OWS movement??

Now who are the ******* bigots?

For the last month your progressive lunatic nuts have been screaming anti Jewish slogans at the top of their lungs, now you have Nazi's riding your coattails...

Have fun with your bongo playing and your blatant racism...

Only progressives could get those racists against whites and racists against blacks to play bongos together and rant against Jews...

 

[JoeB131]

[
Yes, it was the cuckolded husband who filed the complaint and pursued it. As he had a right to do. Witt got away with it because she's a lesbian. Next time it might be a victim of gay harassment themselves, special dispensation given to the gays.

My understanding was that Witt was discharged, so she didn't get away with it.

That said, not a lot of sympathy for the husband. His complaint SHOULD be with his wife. She's a grownup who made her own decisions, and if she was really gay all along and just married him to please her family or something, then he's probably better off that the relationship ended.

Then again, knowing your wife left you for a chick is... well, humiliating.

Witt was discharged, sued, was one of the cases used to overturn DADT and has been reinstated.

Well, no, she wasn't returned to duty, just the nature of her discharge was changed and they gave her her pension. So not quite.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Happy to oblige...

DADT Drama in Trial: Margaret Witt asked for a trial to contest her discharge; now the government is ready to put her relationships under the microscope: News section: Metro Weekly gay news

In court documents and depositions leading up the this week's trial, the Department of Justice has revealed that the person who alerted military officials to Witt's being gay was not the ex-lover but rather the ex-husband of her current lover, Laurie McChesney. And DOJ contends Witt became sexually involved with McChesney while McChesney was still married to her husband.

According to West's brief, Witt's unit commander recommended Witt be separated from the service: ''Among the reasons for this recommendation: plaintiff 'engaged in homosexual acts with . . . a married woman, on diverse occasions from on or about November 2003 to on or about January 2004….''

Because Judge Leighton has rejected Witt's attorneys' request to exclude the information that Witt's relationship with Laurie McChesney was, for a time, taking place while McChesney was still married to her husband, the DOJ will apparently attempt to justify Witt's discharge based on other conduct, in addition to her being gay.

''[A]n officer who engages in adultery risks compromising her stature as an officer,'' wrote West in his August 23 brief. ''The risks of such behavior were enunciated long ago by Congress in Articles 133 and 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which subjects officers regardless of sexual orientation to punishment for adultery in certain circumstances. By reducing those risks, plaintiff's discharge furthers unit cohesion, morale, and good order and discipline.''

So, yeah, technically, she was tossed out for being gay, but the adultery charge was cited by the military as well in appeals. And even at the end of it all, the settlement the Air Force reached with her after DADT was lifted did not require them to put her back in uniform.

If your "Happy to Oblige..." was in response to my request, your post does not address the question asked. Two posters said that Major Witt had "seduced" the wife of a junior officer. Your post does not address that question.

The fact remains that he Manual of the Court Martial requires certain conditions be considered if a charge of Adultery is to be made under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The fact that the partner was a civilian and not a member of the military community is one of the considerations. The fact that Major Witt never brought up the relationship in her unit is also a fact to be considered. The fact that Major Witt's partner lived 250 miles away from her military command and as such was unlikely to raise military issues is also in item the Manual of the Courts Martial calls for consideration. Finally, the Manual of the Court Martial calls for an examination of the marital status of the partner, if the partner is and spouse are separated, that is also a fact to be considered.

So the Department of Justice can talk about the discharge of a lesbian under 10 USC 654 which banned open homosexuals from serving under the same terms as heterosexuals - the fact remains that the United States Air Force (the party responsible for bringing any initial charges) decided that the case did not warrant charges of Adultery and decided to pursue only the administrative discharge pursuant to 10 USC 654.


*******************


Now does anyone have anything to support that Ms. McChesney was the wife of a (junior) officer?


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[WorldWatcher]

My understanding was that Witt was discharged, so she didn't get away with it.

That said, not a lot of sympathy for the husband. His complaint SHOULD be with his wife. She's a grownup who made her own decisions, and if she was really gay all along and just married him to please her family or something, then he's probably better off that the relationship ended.

Then again, knowing your wife left you for a chick is... well, humiliating.

Witt was discharged, sued, was one of the cases used to overturn DADT and has been reinstated.

Well, no, she wasn't returned to duty, just the nature of her discharge was changed and they gave her her pension. So not quite.

Not quite. The Air Force was ordered to return her to duty.

Her original filing was dismissed, which was then appealed to the 9th Circuit Court. The 9th Circuit vacated the dismissal and remaned the case back to District court with instructions to try the subtantive due process claim and procedural due process claim and AFFIRMED the equal protection claim. The case then returned to Judge Leighton's court for trail. Judge Leighton's ruling was...

"VI. CONCLUSION

The application of “Dont’s Ask Don’t Tell” to Major Margaret Witt does not significantly further
the government’s interest in promoting military readiness, unit morale and cohesion. Her discharge from
the Air Force Reserves violated her substantive due process rights under the Fifth Amendment to the
United States Constitution. She should be restored to her position as a Flight Nurse with the 446th AES as
soon as is practicable, subject to meeting applicable regulations touching upon qualifications necessary for
continued service. Dated this 24th day of September, 2010."​

As a flight nurse there are specific qualification and training requirements that are ongoing. As a Naval Aircrewman myself I can testily to the fact that maintaining qualifications once earned are rigorous. In the case of Major Witt she was ordered not to participate in any training activities and was not allowed to drill with her command. As a result all of her qualifications had exipired and she would need extensive retraining, hence the "as soon as is practicable" part of the Judges order for reinstatement.

After the final Judges ruling a negotiated settlement was reached. Since Major Witt had been within one year of earning retirement when the investigation was started, and since the Air Force had ordered her out of a drilling status (meaning she could not earn points toward retirement) for a number of years - the settlement was for removal of discharge from her record and full retirement that she would have earned.



Maj. Margaret Witt v. US Air Force

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