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It ain't an April Fool joke, 15 inches of snow in Vt.

Olde Europe

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If you look at isotope studies INDIVIDUALLY, for ONE type of proxy and ONE place on the Globe, you WILL get higher resolutions. And those higher LOCAL studies as I've shown you 11 times WILL have MAYBE a hundred year resolution, but not with FULL PEAK values.

Yep. We patiently wait for you to understand that a single place's climate variability may not that accurately reflect the Earth's climate, and therefore your whole argument rests, as usual, on a severe misunderstanding of climate science. But yeah, you've also introduced us to the brilliant idea that a warming spike comparable to one of the last 80 years might have been brought about by an explosion of methane production by termites, with a subsequent collapse in termite populations, without a trace, and without an established cause for either.

We also wait for you to understand that there is no way towards a warming of 1+°C that would come and go without a trace during the last 10k years. Your months-long hyperventilating about the hockey stick notwithstanding, you haven't come up with any.

There are folks actually interested in climate science - Old Rocks being foremost amongst them on these boards - and there are others more interested in muddying the waters, and obstructing debate, and poisoning the wells of knowledge with references to the lying likes of WUWT (etc.). It's quite easy to identify them by their contempt for truth, and by their lying about the stance of others, like,

... your "apocalyptic faith" that the planet will literally DESTROY itself over a 2degC "trigger temperature".​

"Literally".
 

CrusaderFrank

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There is absolutely no lab work showing how a 120 ppm increase in CO2 can raise temperature 2C
 

Old Rocks

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Now Frankie boi, that is about 130 ppm now. And the lab work is being done as we speak, for we have made the whole planet the subject of this experiment.
 

CrusaderFrank

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Now Frankie boi, that is about 130 ppm now. And the lab work is being done as we speak, for we have made the whole planet the subject of this experiment.

That's anti-scientific method Warmer Boy. Saying "the world is the lab" is fucking retarded and lazy. We made mini black holes and metallic hydrogen in labs, why can't you Doomsday Cultists have a control for 120PPM of CO2?

I know why, it's because the lab work can't control for wealth distribution.

"But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world's wealth by climate policy...."
 

CrusaderFrank

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The last 10 ppm changed it from Global warming to climate change cuz the snow is all the proof the Doomsday Cult needs
 

RollingThunder

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There is absolutely no lab work showing how a 120 ppm increase in CO2 can raise temperature 2C

One of the most wacky and most fraudulent of the denier cult myths, straight from a demented denier cult troll.

In the real world....

Papers on laboratory measurements of CO2 absorption properties
Posted by Ari Jokimäki
September 25, 2009

This is a list of papers on laboratory measurements of the absorption properties of carbon dioxide. In the context of these paperlists this is a difficult subject because only few of the papers are freely available online, so we have to settle on abstracts only (of course, interested reader can purchase the full texts for the papers from the linked abstract pages). However, I don’t think that matters that much because the main point of this list really is to show that the basic research on the subject exists. The list is not complete, and will most likely be updated in the future in order to make it more thorough and more representative.

UPDATE (September 23, 2012): Burch & Gryvnak (1966) added.
UPDATE (February 6, 2011): Miller & Watts (1984) added.
UPDATE (July 25, 2010): I modified the introduction paragraph a little to reflect the current content of the list. The old text was a little outdated.
UPDATE (June 22, 2010): Lecher & Pernter (1881) added.
UPDATE (March 31, 2010): Tubbs & Williams (1972), Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) and Ångström (1900) added.
UPDATE (March 6, 2010): Barker (1922) added.
UPDATE (November 19, 2009): Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) added.
UPDATE (September 25, 2009): Miller & Brown (2004) added, thanks to John Cook for bringing it to my attention (see the discussion section below).

Spectroscopic database of CO2 line parameters: 4300–7000 cm−1 – Toth et al. (2008)“A new spectroscopic database for carbon dioxide in the near infrared is presented to support remote sensing of the terrestrial planets (Mars, Venus and the Earth). The compilation contains over 28,500 transitions of 210 bands from 4300 to 7000 cm−1…”

Line shape parameters measurement and computations for self-broadened carbon dioxide transitions in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 bands, line mixing, and speed dependence – Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) “Transitions of pure carbon dioxide have been measured using a Fourier transform spectrometer in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 vibrational bands. The room temperature spectra, recorded at a resolution of 0.008 cm−1, were analyzed using the Voigt model and a Speed Dependent Voigt line shape model that includes a pressure dependent narrowing parameter. Intensities, self-induced pressure broadening, shifts, and weak line mixing coefficients are determined. The results obtained are consistent with other studies in addition to the theoretically calculated values.” [Full text]

Spectroscopic challenges for high accuracy retrievals of atmospheric CO2 and the Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) experiment – Miller et al. (2005) “The space-based Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) mission will achieve global measurements needed to distinguish spatial and temporal gradients in the CO2 column. Scheduled by NASA to launch in 2008, the instrument will obtain averaged dry air mole fraction (XCO2) with a precision of 1 part per million (0.3%) in order to quantify the variation of CO2 sources and sinks and to improve future climate forecasts. Retrievals of XCO2 from ground-based measurements require even higher precisions to validate the satellite data and link them accurately and without bias to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) standard for atmospheric CO2 observations. These retrievals will require CO2 spectroscopic parameters with unprecedented accuracy. Here we present the experimental and data analysis methods implemented in laboratory studies in order to achieve this challenging goal.”

Near infrared spectroscopy of carbon dioxide I. 16O12C16O line positions – Miller & Brown (2004) “High-resolution near-infrared (4000–9000 cm-1) spectra of carbon dioxide have been recorded using the McMath–Pierce Fourier transform spectrometer at the Kitt Peak National Solar Observatory. Some 2500 observed positions have been used to determine spectroscopic constants for 53 different vibrational states of the 16O12C16O isotopologue, including eight vibrational states for which laboratory spectra have not previously been reported. … This work reduces CO2 near-infrared line position uncertainties by a factor of 10 or more compared to the 2000 HITRAN line list, which has not been modified since the comprehensive work of Rothman et al. [J. Quant. Spectrosc. Rad. Transfer 48 (1992) 537].”[Full text]

Spectra calculations in central and wing regions of CO2 IR bands between 10 and 20 μm. I: model and laboratory measurements – Niro et al. (2004) “Temperature (200–300 K) and pressure (70–200 atm) dependent laboratory measurements of infrared transmission by CO2–N2 mixtures have been made. From these experiments the absorption coefficient is reconstructed, over a range of several orders of magnitude, between 600 and 1000 cm−1.”

Collisional effects on spectral line-shapes – Boulet (2004) “The growing concern of mankind for the understanding and preserving of its environment has stimulated great interest for the study of planetary atmospheres and, first of all, for that of the Earth. Onboard spectrometers now provide more and more precise information on the transmission and emission of radiation by these atmospheres. Its treatment by ‘retrieval’ technics, in order to extract vertical profiles (pressure, temperature, volume mixing ratios) requires precise modeling of infrared absorption spectra. Within this framework, accounting for the influence of pressure on the absorption shape is crucial. These effects of inter-molecular collisions between the optically active species and the ‘perturbers’ are complex and of various types depending mostly on the density of perturbers. The present paper attempts to review and illustrate, through a few examples, the state of the art in this field.”

On far-wing Raman profiles by CO2 – Benech et al. (2002) “Despite the excellent agreement observed in N2 here, a substantial inconsistency between theory and experiment was found in the wing of the spectrum. Although the influence of other missing processes or neighboring bands cannot be totally excluded, our findings rather suggest that highly anisotropic perturbers, such as CO2, are improperly described when they are handled as point-like molecules, a cornerstone hypothesis in the approach employed.”

Collision-induced scattering in CO2 gas – Teboul et al. (1995) “Carbon-dioxide gas rototranslational scattering has been measured at 294.5 K in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 at 23 amagat. The depolarization ratio of scattered intensities in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 is recorded. The theoretical and experimental spectra in the frequency range 10–470 cm−1 are compared.”

The HITRAN database: 1986 edition – Rothman et al. (1987) “A description and summary of the latest edition of the AFGL HITRAN molecular absorption parameters database are presented. This new database combines the information for the seven principal atmospheric absorbers and twenty-one additional molecular species previously contained on the AFGL atmospheric absorption line parameter compilation and on the trace gas compilation.”

Rotational structure in the infrared spectra of carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide dimers – Miller & Watts (1984) “High-resolution infrared predissociation spectra have been measured for dilute mixtures of CO2 and N2O in helium. Rotational fine structure is clearly resolved for both (CO2)2 and (N2O)2, the linewidths being instrument-limited. This establishes that predissociation lifetimes are longer than approximately 50 ns.”

Broadening of Infrared Absorption Lines at Reduced Temperatures: Carbon Dioxide – Tubbs & Williams (1972) “An evacuated high-resolution Czerny-Turner spectrograph, which is described in this paper, has been used to determine the strengths S and self-broadening parameters γ0 for lines in the R branch of the ν3 fundamental of 12C16O2 at 298 and at 207 K. The values of γ0 at 207 K are greater than those to be expected on the basis of a fixed collision cross section σ.”

Investigation of the Absorption of Infrared Radiation by Atmospheric Gases – Burch et al. (1970) “From spectral transmittance curves of very large samples of CO2 we have determined coefficients for intrinsic absorption and pressure-induced absorption from approximately 1130/cm to 1835/cm.”

Absorption of Infrared Radiant Energy by CO2 and H2O. IV. Shapes of Collision-Broadened CO2 Lines – Burch et al. (1969) “The shapes of the extreme wings of self-broadened CO2 lines have been investigated in three spectral regions near 7000, 3800, and 2400 cm−1. … New information has been obtained about the shapes of self-broadened CO2 lines as well as CO2 lines broadened by N2, O2, Ar, He, and H2.”

High-Temperature Spectral Emissivities and Total Intensities of the 15-µ Band System of CO2 – Ludwig et al. (1966) “Spectral-emissivity measurements of the 15-µ band of CO2were made in the temperature range from 1000° to 2300°K.”

Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation – Burch & Gryvnak (1966) “Extensive measurements of the absorption by H2O and CO2 have been made in the region from 0·6 to 5·5 microm. Two different multiple-pass absorption cells provided path lengths from 2 to 933 m, and sample pressures were varied from a few μHg to 15 atm. Approximately thirty new CO2 bands were observed and identified, and the strengths of the important bands determined. The H2O data provide enough information for the determination of the strengths and widths of several hundred of the more important lines. The wings of CO2absorption lines were found to be sub-Lorentzian, with the shapes depending on temperature, broadening gas, and wavelength in ways which cannot be explained by present theories. The absorption by H2O and CO2 samples at temperatures up to 1800°K has been studied from 1 to 5 microm. The transmission of radiation from hot CO2 through cold CO2 and from hot H2O through cold H2O has been investigated to determine the effect of the coincidence of emission lines with absorption lines.” Darrell E. Burch, David A. Gryvnak, Journal of Quantitative Spectroscopy and Radiative Transfer, Volume 6, Issue 3, May–June 1966, Pages 229–240, Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation - ScienceDirect.

Line shape in the wing beyond the band head of the 4·3 μ band of CO2 – Winters et al.(1964) “Quantitative absorpance measurements have been made in pure CO2 and mixtures of CO2 with N2 and O2 in a 10 m White Perkin-Elmer cell. With absorbing paths up to 50 m-atm, results have been obtained from the band head at 2397 cm−1 to 2575 cm−1.”

Emissivity of Carbon Dioxide at 4.3 µ – Davies (1964) “The emissivity of carbon dioxide has been measured for temperatures from 1500° to 3000°K over the wavelength range from 4.40 to 5.30 µ.”

Absorption Line Broadening in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “The effects of various gases on the absorption bands of nitrous oxide, carbon monoxide, methane, carbon dioxide, and water vapor have been investigated.”

Total Absorptance of Carbon Dioxide in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “Total absorptance… has been determined as a function of absorber concentration w and equivalent pressure Pe for the major infrared absorption bands of carbon dioxide with centers at 3716, 3609, 2350, 1064, and 961 cm−1.”

Rotation-Vibration Spectra of Diatomic and Simple Polyatomic Molecules with Long Absorbing Paths – Herzberg & Herzberg (1953) “The spectrum of CO2 in the photographic infrared has been studied with absorbing paths up to 5500 m. Thirteen absorption bands were found of which eleven have been analyzed in detail.”

The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide – Martin & Barker (1932) “The complete infrared spectrum of CO2 may consistently be explained in terms of a linear symmetrical model, making use of the selection rules developed by Dennison and the resonance interaction introduced by Fermi. The inactive fundamental ν1 appears only in combination bands, but ν2 at 15μ and ν3 at 4.3μ absorb intensely.”

Carbon Dioxide Absorption in the Near Infra-Red – Barker (1922) “Infra-red absorption bands of CO2 at 2.7 and 4.3 μ. – New absorption curves have been obtained, using a special prism-grating double spectrometer of higher resolution (Figs. 1-3). The 2.7 μ region, heretofore considered to be a doublet, proves to be a pair of doublets, with centers at approximately 2.694 μ and 2.767 μ. The 4.3 μ band appears as a single doublet with center at 4.253 μ. The frequency difference between maxima is nearly the same for each of the three doublets, and equal to 4.5 x 1011. Complete resolution of the band series was not effected, even though the slit included only 12 A for the 2.7 μ region, but there is evidently a complicated structure, with a “head” in each case on the side of shorter wave-lengths. The existence of this head for the 4.3 μ band is also indicated by a comparison with the emission spectrum from a bunsen flame, and the difference in wave-length of the maxima of emission and absorption is explained as a temperature effect similar to that observed with other doublets.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

Ueber die Bedeutung des Wasserdampfes und der Kohlensäure bei der Absorption der Erdatmosphäre – Ångström (1900)

Observations on the Absorption and Emission of Aqueous Vapor and Carbon Dioxide in the Infra-Red Spectrum – Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) “Our experiments carried out as described above on the absorption spectrum carbon dioxide very soon showed that we were dealing with a single absorption band whose maximum lies near λ = 14.7 μ. … The whole region of absorption is limited to the interval from 12.5 μ to 16 μ, with the maximum at 14.7 μ.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

On the absorption of dark heat-rays by gases and vapours – Lecher & Pernter (1881)Svante Arrhenius wrote in his famous 1897 paper: “Tyndall held the opinion that the water-vapour has the greatest influence, whilst other authors, for instance Lecher and Pernter, are inclined to think that the carbonic acid plays the more important part.”.

The Bakerian Lecture – On the Absorption and Radiation of Heat by Gases and Vapours, and on the Physical Connexion of Radiation, Absorption, and Conduction – Tyndall (1861) 150 years ago John Tyndall already showed that carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. [Full text] [Wikipedia: John Tyndall]


Closely related

The HITRAN Database – The laboratory work results on the absorption properties of carbon dioxide (and many other molecules) is contained in this database.
 

CrusaderFrank

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There is absolutely no lab work showing how a 120 ppm increase in CO2 can raise temperature 2C

One of the most wacky and most fraudulent of the denier cult myths, straight from a demented denier cult troll.

In the real world....

Papers on laboratory measurements of CO2 absorption properties
Posted by Ari Jokimäki
September 25, 2009

This is a list of papers on laboratory measurements of the absorption properties of carbon dioxide. In the context of these paperlists this is a difficult subject because only few of the papers are freely available online, so we have to settle on abstracts only (of course, interested reader can purchase the full texts for the papers from the linked abstract pages). However, I don’t think that matters that much because the main point of this list really is to show that the basic research on the subject exists. The list is not complete, and will most likely be updated in the future in order to make it more thorough and more representative.

UPDATE (September 23, 2012): Burch & Gryvnak (1966) added.
UPDATE (February 6, 2011): Miller & Watts (1984) added.
UPDATE (July 25, 2010): I modified the introduction paragraph a little to reflect the current content of the list. The old text was a little outdated.
UPDATE (June 22, 2010): Lecher & Pernter (1881) added.
UPDATE (March 31, 2010): Tubbs & Williams (1972), Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) and Ångström (1900) added.
UPDATE (March 6, 2010): Barker (1922) added.
UPDATE (November 19, 2009): Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) added.
UPDATE (September 25, 2009): Miller & Brown (2004) added, thanks to John Cook for bringing it to my attention (see the discussion section below).

Spectroscopic database of CO2 line parameters: 4300–7000 cm−1 – Toth et al. (2008)“A new spectroscopic database for carbon dioxide in the near infrared is presented to support remote sensing of the terrestrial planets (Mars, Venus and the Earth). The compilation contains over 28,500 transitions of 210 bands from 4300 to 7000 cm−1…”

Line shape parameters measurement and computations for self-broadened carbon dioxide transitions in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 bands, line mixing, and speed dependence – Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) “Transitions of pure carbon dioxide have been measured using a Fourier transform spectrometer in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 vibrational bands. The room temperature spectra, recorded at a resolution of 0.008 cm−1, were analyzed using the Voigt model and a Speed Dependent Voigt line shape model that includes a pressure dependent narrowing parameter. Intensities, self-induced pressure broadening, shifts, and weak line mixing coefficients are determined. The results obtained are consistent with other studies in addition to the theoretically calculated values.” [Full text]

Spectroscopic challenges for high accuracy retrievals of atmospheric CO2 and the Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) experiment – Miller et al. (2005) “The space-based Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) mission will achieve global measurements needed to distinguish spatial and temporal gradients in the CO2 column. Scheduled by NASA to launch in 2008, the instrument will obtain averaged dry air mole fraction (XCO2) with a precision of 1 part per million (0.3%) in order to quantify the variation of CO2 sources and sinks and to improve future climate forecasts. Retrievals of XCO2 from ground-based measurements require even higher precisions to validate the satellite data and link them accurately and without bias to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) standard for atmospheric CO2 observations. These retrievals will require CO2 spectroscopic parameters with unprecedented accuracy. Here we present the experimental and data analysis methods implemented in laboratory studies in order to achieve this challenging goal.”

Near infrared spectroscopy of carbon dioxide I. 16O12C16O line positions – Miller & Brown (2004) “High-resolution near-infrared (4000–9000 cm-1) spectra of carbon dioxide have been recorded using the McMath–Pierce Fourier transform spectrometer at the Kitt Peak National Solar Observatory. Some 2500 observed positions have been used to determine spectroscopic constants for 53 different vibrational states of the 16O12C16O isotopologue, including eight vibrational states for which laboratory spectra have not previously been reported. … This work reduces CO2 near-infrared line position uncertainties by a factor of 10 or more compared to the 2000 HITRAN line list, which has not been modified since the comprehensive work of Rothman et al. [J. Quant. Spectrosc. Rad. Transfer 48 (1992) 537].”[Full text]

Spectra calculations in central and wing regions of CO2 IR bands between 10 and 20 μm. I: model and laboratory measurements – Niro et al. (2004) “Temperature (200–300 K) and pressure (70–200 atm) dependent laboratory measurements of infrared transmission by CO2–N2 mixtures have been made. From these experiments the absorption coefficient is reconstructed, over a range of several orders of magnitude, between 600 and 1000 cm−1.”

Collisional effects on spectral line-shapes – Boulet (2004) “The growing concern of mankind for the understanding and preserving of its environment has stimulated great interest for the study of planetary atmospheres and, first of all, for that of the Earth. Onboard spectrometers now provide more and more precise information on the transmission and emission of radiation by these atmospheres. Its treatment by ‘retrieval’ technics, in order to extract vertical profiles (pressure, temperature, volume mixing ratios) requires precise modeling of infrared absorption spectra. Within this framework, accounting for the influence of pressure on the absorption shape is crucial. These effects of inter-molecular collisions between the optically active species and the ‘perturbers’ are complex and of various types depending mostly on the density of perturbers. The present paper attempts to review and illustrate, through a few examples, the state of the art in this field.”

On far-wing Raman profiles by CO2 – Benech et al. (2002) “Despite the excellent agreement observed in N2 here, a substantial inconsistency between theory and experiment was found in the wing of the spectrum. Although the influence of other missing processes or neighboring bands cannot be totally excluded, our findings rather suggest that highly anisotropic perturbers, such as CO2, are improperly described when they are handled as point-like molecules, a cornerstone hypothesis in the approach employed.”

Collision-induced scattering in CO2 gas – Teboul et al. (1995) “Carbon-dioxide gas rototranslational scattering has been measured at 294.5 K in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 at 23 amagat. The depolarization ratio of scattered intensities in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 is recorded. The theoretical and experimental spectra in the frequency range 10–470 cm−1 are compared.”

The HITRAN database: 1986 edition – Rothman et al. (1987) “A description and summary of the latest edition of the AFGL HITRAN molecular absorption parameters database are presented. This new database combines the information for the seven principal atmospheric absorbers and twenty-one additional molecular species previously contained on the AFGL atmospheric absorption line parameter compilation and on the trace gas compilation.”

Rotational structure in the infrared spectra of carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide dimers – Miller & Watts (1984) “High-resolution infrared predissociation spectra have been measured for dilute mixtures of CO2 and N2O in helium. Rotational fine structure is clearly resolved for both (CO2)2 and (N2O)2, the linewidths being instrument-limited. This establishes that predissociation lifetimes are longer than approximately 50 ns.”

Broadening of Infrared Absorption Lines at Reduced Temperatures: Carbon Dioxide – Tubbs & Williams (1972) “An evacuated high-resolution Czerny-Turner spectrograph, which is described in this paper, has been used to determine the strengths S and self-broadening parameters γ0 for lines in the R branch of the ν3 fundamental of 12C16O2 at 298 and at 207 K. The values of γ0 at 207 K are greater than those to be expected on the basis of a fixed collision cross section σ.”

Investigation of the Absorption of Infrared Radiation by Atmospheric Gases – Burch et al. (1970) “From spectral transmittance curves of very large samples of CO2 we have determined coefficients for intrinsic absorption and pressure-induced absorption from approximately 1130/cm to 1835/cm.”

Absorption of Infrared Radiant Energy by CO2 and H2O. IV. Shapes of Collision-Broadened CO2 Lines – Burch et al. (1969) “The shapes of the extreme wings of self-broadened CO2 lines have been investigated in three spectral regions near 7000, 3800, and 2400 cm−1. … New information has been obtained about the shapes of self-broadened CO2 lines as well as CO2 lines broadened by N2, O2, Ar, He, and H2.”

High-Temperature Spectral Emissivities and Total Intensities of the 15-µ Band System of CO2 – Ludwig et al. (1966) “Spectral-emissivity measurements of the 15-µ band of CO2were made in the temperature range from 1000° to 2300°K.”

Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation – Burch & Gryvnak (1966) “Extensive measurements of the absorption by H2O and CO2 have been made in the region from 0·6 to 5·5 microm. Two different multiple-pass absorption cells provided path lengths from 2 to 933 m, and sample pressures were varied from a few μHg to 15 atm. Approximately thirty new CO2 bands were observed and identified, and the strengths of the important bands determined. The H2O data provide enough information for the determination of the strengths and widths of several hundred of the more important lines. The wings of CO2absorption lines were found to be sub-Lorentzian, with the shapes depending on temperature, broadening gas, and wavelength in ways which cannot be explained by present theories. The absorption by H2O and CO2 samples at temperatures up to 1800°K has been studied from 1 to 5 microm. The transmission of radiation from hot CO2 through cold CO2 and from hot H2O through cold H2O has been investigated to determine the effect of the coincidence of emission lines with absorption lines.” Darrell E. Burch, David A. Gryvnak, Journal of Quantitative Spectroscopy and Radiative Transfer, Volume 6, Issue 3, May–June 1966, Pages 229–240, Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation - ScienceDirect.

Line shape in the wing beyond the band head of the 4·3 μ band of CO2 – Winters et al.(1964) “Quantitative absorpance measurements have been made in pure CO2 and mixtures of CO2 with N2 and O2 in a 10 m White Perkin-Elmer cell. With absorbing paths up to 50 m-atm, results have been obtained from the band head at 2397 cm−1 to 2575 cm−1.”

Emissivity of Carbon Dioxide at 4.3 µ – Davies (1964) “The emissivity of carbon dioxide has been measured for temperatures from 1500° to 3000°K over the wavelength range from 4.40 to 5.30 µ.”

Absorption Line Broadening in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “The effects of various gases on the absorption bands of nitrous oxide, carbon monoxide, methane, carbon dioxide, and water vapor have been investigated.”

Total Absorptance of Carbon Dioxide in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “Total absorptance… has been determined as a function of absorber concentration w and equivalent pressure Pe for the major infrared absorption bands of carbon dioxide with centers at 3716, 3609, 2350, 1064, and 961 cm−1.”

Rotation-Vibration Spectra of Diatomic and Simple Polyatomic Molecules with Long Absorbing Paths – Herzberg & Herzberg (1953) “The spectrum of CO2 in the photographic infrared has been studied with absorbing paths up to 5500 m. Thirteen absorption bands were found of which eleven have been analyzed in detail.”

The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide – Martin & Barker (1932) “The complete infrared spectrum of CO2 may consistently be explained in terms of a linear symmetrical model, making use of the selection rules developed by Dennison and the resonance interaction introduced by Fermi. The inactive fundamental ν1 appears only in combination bands, but ν2 at 15μ and ν3 at 4.3μ absorb intensely.”

Carbon Dioxide Absorption in the Near Infra-Red – Barker (1922) “Infra-red absorption bands of CO2 at 2.7 and 4.3 μ. – New absorption curves have been obtained, using a special prism-grating double spectrometer of higher resolution (Figs. 1-3). The 2.7 μ region, heretofore considered to be a doublet, proves to be a pair of doublets, with centers at approximately 2.694 μ and 2.767 μ. The 4.3 μ band appears as a single doublet with center at 4.253 μ. The frequency difference between maxima is nearly the same for each of the three doublets, and equal to 4.5 x 1011. Complete resolution of the band series was not effected, even though the slit included only 12 A for the 2.7 μ region, but there is evidently a complicated structure, with a “head” in each case on the side of shorter wave-lengths. The existence of this head for the 4.3 μ band is also indicated by a comparison with the emission spectrum from a bunsen flame, and the difference in wave-length of the maxima of emission and absorption is explained as a temperature effect similar to that observed with other doublets.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

Ueber die Bedeutung des Wasserdampfes und der Kohlensäure bei der Absorption der Erdatmosphäre – Ångström (1900)

Observations on the Absorption and Emission of Aqueous Vapor and Carbon Dioxide in the Infra-Red Spectrum – Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) “Our experiments carried out as described above on the absorption spectrum carbon dioxide very soon showed that we were dealing with a single absorption band whose maximum lies near λ = 14.7 μ. … The whole region of absorption is limited to the interval from 12.5 μ to 16 μ, with the maximum at 14.7 μ.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

On the absorption of dark heat-rays by gases and vapours – Lecher & Pernter (1881)Svante Arrhenius wrote in his famous 1897 paper: “Tyndall held the opinion that the water-vapour has the greatest influence, whilst other authors, for instance Lecher and Pernter, are inclined to think that the carbonic acid plays the more important part.”.

The Bakerian Lecture – On the Absorption and Radiation of Heat by Gases and Vapours, and on the Physical Connexion of Radiation, Absorption, and Conduction – Tyndall (1861) 150 years ago John Tyndall already showed that carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. [Full text] [Wikipedia: John Tyndall]


Closely related

The HITRAN Database – The laboratory work results on the absorption properties of carbon dioxide (and many other molecules) is contained in this database.


Moonbat, go snort some nitrous and then point out the paper with lab work showing the relationship between 120ppm and temperature
 

OldLady

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Global warming is one issue that I'm not convinced of on either side. Maybe convinced isn't the right word...I'm just not sure where I stand on this.
It has gotten a little warmer, averaged world wide. And the rapidity of the warming is much faster than it has been in the past. Those things we know from thermometers and ice core samples. We can't deny the substantial shrinking of the glaciers and the subsequent rise in sea level, either. But whether it can be stopped or whether CO2 has anything to do with it is the question. These deniers, on the other hand, apparently are deeply suspicious of thermometers.

No --- not suspicious of thermometers in the 20th century anyways. But I AM suspicious about the hysterical claims that it's "warming faster than the last xxx Thousand years". Because -- there were no thermometers. And you don't find ice cores GLOBALLY, and tree rings are NOT great thermometers, and the little mud bug shells also used in proxies for those "ancient" temperature studies can't be accurately dated because the little buggers dig and burrow in what is 100s of years of vertical mud in those "core samples". So the bottom line is -- the 0.8degC warming in your lifetime is probably NOT truely exceptional looked at on a climate scale of thousands of years. And all those "proxy studies" lack the time resolution and distributed spatial sampling of the globe to FIND a 1degC change over a 100 years. In fact, they can not find much in the way of variance over spans of 300 to 500 years. So no real conclusions can be made about "natural climate variabilty" from them. Although -- it's now a form of urban legend that they "proved it". .

The rate of warming is NOT increasing as predicted, and most of the 1980s predictions have already failed. CO2 plays a ROLE in this probably, but is NOT the dominant apocalyptic trigger to destroy the planet that it's been made out to be.
You're the scientist, FlaCalTenn, so I will bow to your expertise. It is good to know a little more about why some don't buy the Global Warming theory. The great majority of scientists are buying it though, not just here where it might be politically motivated, but all over the world. This indicates to me that there may be something to it. Thanks for the info, though.
 

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Don't bow to his expertise when it contradicts those who actually do have such qualifications. FCT is not a climate scientist.
 

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Don't bow to his expertise when it contradicts those who actually do have such qualifications. FCT is not a climate scientist.
No, but he's got more understanding of the issues than I have, admittedly. I didn't say I necessarily believe he's right, but it's good to hear someone say anything a bit more intelligent than "IT'S SNOWING!" Snookerbill opened one every cold day we had all winter. LOL.
 

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There is absolutely no lab work showing how a 120 ppm increase in CO2 can raise temperature 2C

One of the most wacky and most fraudulent of the denier cult myths, straight from a demented denier cult troll.

In the real world....

Papers on laboratory measurements of CO2 absorption properties
Posted by Ari Jokimäki
September 25, 2009

This is a list of papers on laboratory measurements of the absorption properties of carbon dioxide. In the context of these paperlists this is a difficult subject because only few of the papers are freely available online, so we have to settle on abstracts only (of course, interested reader can purchase the full texts for the papers from the linked abstract pages). However, I don’t think that matters that much because the main point of this list really is to show that the basic research on the subject exists. The list is not complete, and will most likely be updated in the future in order to make it more thorough and more representative.

UPDATE (September 23, 2012): Burch & Gryvnak (1966) added.
UPDATE (February 6, 2011): Miller & Watts (1984) added.
UPDATE (July 25, 2010): I modified the introduction paragraph a little to reflect the current content of the list. The old text was a little outdated.
UPDATE (June 22, 2010): Lecher & Pernter (1881) added.
UPDATE (March 31, 2010): Tubbs & Williams (1972), Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) and Ångström (1900) added.
UPDATE (March 6, 2010): Barker (1922) added.
UPDATE (November 19, 2009): Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) added.
UPDATE (September 25, 2009): Miller & Brown (2004) added, thanks to John Cook for bringing it to my attention (see the discussion section below).

Spectroscopic database of CO2 line parameters: 4300–7000 cm−1 – Toth et al. (2008)“A new spectroscopic database for carbon dioxide in the near infrared is presented to support remote sensing of the terrestrial planets (Mars, Venus and the Earth). The compilation contains over 28,500 transitions of 210 bands from 4300 to 7000 cm−1…”

Line shape parameters measurement and computations for self-broadened carbon dioxide transitions in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 bands, line mixing, and speed dependence – Predoi-Cross et al. (2007) “Transitions of pure carbon dioxide have been measured using a Fourier transform spectrometer in the 30012 ← 00001 and 30013 ← 00001 vibrational bands. The room temperature spectra, recorded at a resolution of 0.008 cm−1, were analyzed using the Voigt model and a Speed Dependent Voigt line shape model that includes a pressure dependent narrowing parameter. Intensities, self-induced pressure broadening, shifts, and weak line mixing coefficients are determined. The results obtained are consistent with other studies in addition to the theoretically calculated values.” [Full text]

Spectroscopic challenges for high accuracy retrievals of atmospheric CO2 and the Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) experiment – Miller et al. (2005) “The space-based Orbiting Carbon Observatory (OCO) mission will achieve global measurements needed to distinguish spatial and temporal gradients in the CO2 column. Scheduled by NASA to launch in 2008, the instrument will obtain averaged dry air mole fraction (XCO2) with a precision of 1 part per million (0.3%) in order to quantify the variation of CO2 sources and sinks and to improve future climate forecasts. Retrievals of XCO2 from ground-based measurements require even higher precisions to validate the satellite data and link them accurately and without bias to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) standard for atmospheric CO2 observations. These retrievals will require CO2 spectroscopic parameters with unprecedented accuracy. Here we present the experimental and data analysis methods implemented in laboratory studies in order to achieve this challenging goal.”

Near infrared spectroscopy of carbon dioxide I. 16O12C16O line positions – Miller & Brown (2004) “High-resolution near-infrared (4000–9000 cm-1) spectra of carbon dioxide have been recorded using the McMath–Pierce Fourier transform spectrometer at the Kitt Peak National Solar Observatory. Some 2500 observed positions have been used to determine spectroscopic constants for 53 different vibrational states of the 16O12C16O isotopologue, including eight vibrational states for which laboratory spectra have not previously been reported. … This work reduces CO2 near-infrared line position uncertainties by a factor of 10 or more compared to the 2000 HITRAN line list, which has not been modified since the comprehensive work of Rothman et al. [J. Quant. Spectrosc. Rad. Transfer 48 (1992) 537].”[Full text]

Spectra calculations in central and wing regions of CO2 IR bands between 10 and 20 μm. I: model and laboratory measurements – Niro et al. (2004) “Temperature (200–300 K) and pressure (70–200 atm) dependent laboratory measurements of infrared transmission by CO2–N2 mixtures have been made. From these experiments the absorption coefficient is reconstructed, over a range of several orders of magnitude, between 600 and 1000 cm−1.”

Collisional effects on spectral line-shapes – Boulet (2004) “The growing concern of mankind for the understanding and preserving of its environment has stimulated great interest for the study of planetary atmospheres and, first of all, for that of the Earth. Onboard spectrometers now provide more and more precise information on the transmission and emission of radiation by these atmospheres. Its treatment by ‘retrieval’ technics, in order to extract vertical profiles (pressure, temperature, volume mixing ratios) requires precise modeling of infrared absorption spectra. Within this framework, accounting for the influence of pressure on the absorption shape is crucial. These effects of inter-molecular collisions between the optically active species and the ‘perturbers’ are complex and of various types depending mostly on the density of perturbers. The present paper attempts to review and illustrate, through a few examples, the state of the art in this field.”

On far-wing Raman profiles by CO2 – Benech et al. (2002) “Despite the excellent agreement observed in N2 here, a substantial inconsistency between theory and experiment was found in the wing of the spectrum. Although the influence of other missing processes or neighboring bands cannot be totally excluded, our findings rather suggest that highly anisotropic perturbers, such as CO2, are improperly described when they are handled as point-like molecules, a cornerstone hypothesis in the approach employed.”

Collision-induced scattering in CO2 gas – Teboul et al. (1995) “Carbon-dioxide gas rototranslational scattering has been measured at 294.5 K in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 at 23 amagat. The depolarization ratio of scattered intensities in the frequency range 10–1000 cm−1 is recorded. The theoretical and experimental spectra in the frequency range 10–470 cm−1 are compared.”

The HITRAN database: 1986 edition – Rothman et al. (1987) “A description and summary of the latest edition of the AFGL HITRAN molecular absorption parameters database are presented. This new database combines the information for the seven principal atmospheric absorbers and twenty-one additional molecular species previously contained on the AFGL atmospheric absorption line parameter compilation and on the trace gas compilation.”

Rotational structure in the infrared spectra of carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide dimers – Miller & Watts (1984) “High-resolution infrared predissociation spectra have been measured for dilute mixtures of CO2 and N2O in helium. Rotational fine structure is clearly resolved for both (CO2)2 and (N2O)2, the linewidths being instrument-limited. This establishes that predissociation lifetimes are longer than approximately 50 ns.”

Broadening of Infrared Absorption Lines at Reduced Temperatures: Carbon Dioxide – Tubbs & Williams (1972) “An evacuated high-resolution Czerny-Turner spectrograph, which is described in this paper, has been used to determine the strengths S and self-broadening parameters γ0 for lines in the R branch of the ν3 fundamental of 12C16O2 at 298 and at 207 K. The values of γ0 at 207 K are greater than those to be expected on the basis of a fixed collision cross section σ.”

Investigation of the Absorption of Infrared Radiation by Atmospheric Gases – Burch et al. (1970) “From spectral transmittance curves of very large samples of CO2 we have determined coefficients for intrinsic absorption and pressure-induced absorption from approximately 1130/cm to 1835/cm.”

Absorption of Infrared Radiant Energy by CO2 and H2O. IV. Shapes of Collision-Broadened CO2 Lines – Burch et al. (1969) “The shapes of the extreme wings of self-broadened CO2 lines have been investigated in three spectral regions near 7000, 3800, and 2400 cm−1. … New information has been obtained about the shapes of self-broadened CO2 lines as well as CO2 lines broadened by N2, O2, Ar, He, and H2.”

High-Temperature Spectral Emissivities and Total Intensities of the 15-µ Band System of CO2 – Ludwig et al. (1966) “Spectral-emissivity measurements of the 15-µ band of CO2were made in the temperature range from 1000° to 2300°K.”

Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation – Burch & Gryvnak (1966) “Extensive measurements of the absorption by H2O and CO2 have been made in the region from 0·6 to 5·5 microm. Two different multiple-pass absorption cells provided path lengths from 2 to 933 m, and sample pressures were varied from a few μHg to 15 atm. Approximately thirty new CO2 bands were observed and identified, and the strengths of the important bands determined. The H2O data provide enough information for the determination of the strengths and widths of several hundred of the more important lines. The wings of CO2absorption lines were found to be sub-Lorentzian, with the shapes depending on temperature, broadening gas, and wavelength in ways which cannot be explained by present theories. The absorption by H2O and CO2 samples at temperatures up to 1800°K has been studied from 1 to 5 microm. The transmission of radiation from hot CO2 through cold CO2 and from hot H2O through cold H2O has been investigated to determine the effect of the coincidence of emission lines with absorption lines.” Darrell E. Burch, David A. Gryvnak, Journal of Quantitative Spectroscopy and Radiative Transfer, Volume 6, Issue 3, May–June 1966, Pages 229–240, Laboratory investigation of the absorption and emission of infrared radiation - ScienceDirect.

Line shape in the wing beyond the band head of the 4·3 μ band of CO2 – Winters et al.(1964) “Quantitative absorpance measurements have been made in pure CO2 and mixtures of CO2 with N2 and O2 in a 10 m White Perkin-Elmer cell. With absorbing paths up to 50 m-atm, results have been obtained from the band head at 2397 cm−1 to 2575 cm−1.”

Emissivity of Carbon Dioxide at 4.3 µ – Davies (1964) “The emissivity of carbon dioxide has been measured for temperatures from 1500° to 3000°K over the wavelength range from 4.40 to 5.30 µ.”

Absorption Line Broadening in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “The effects of various gases on the absorption bands of nitrous oxide, carbon monoxide, methane, carbon dioxide, and water vapor have been investigated.”

Total Absorptance of Carbon Dioxide in the Infrared – Burch et al. (1962) “Total absorptance… has been determined as a function of absorber concentration w and equivalent pressure Pe for the major infrared absorption bands of carbon dioxide with centers at 3716, 3609, 2350, 1064, and 961 cm−1.”

Rotation-Vibration Spectra of Diatomic and Simple Polyatomic Molecules with Long Absorbing Paths – Herzberg & Herzberg (1953) “The spectrum of CO2 in the photographic infrared has been studied with absorbing paths up to 5500 m. Thirteen absorption bands were found of which eleven have been analyzed in detail.”

The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide – Martin & Barker (1932) “The complete infrared spectrum of CO2 may consistently be explained in terms of a linear symmetrical model, making use of the selection rules developed by Dennison and the resonance interaction introduced by Fermi. The inactive fundamental ν1 appears only in combination bands, but ν2 at 15μ and ν3 at 4.3μ absorb intensely.”

Carbon Dioxide Absorption in the Near Infra-Red – Barker (1922) “Infra-red absorption bands of CO2 at 2.7 and 4.3 μ. – New absorption curves have been obtained, using a special prism-grating double spectrometer of higher resolution (Figs. 1-3). The 2.7 μ region, heretofore considered to be a doublet, proves to be a pair of doublets, with centers at approximately 2.694 μ and 2.767 μ. The 4.3 μ band appears as a single doublet with center at 4.253 μ. The frequency difference between maxima is nearly the same for each of the three doublets, and equal to 4.5 x 1011. Complete resolution of the band series was not effected, even though the slit included only 12 A for the 2.7 μ region, but there is evidently a complicated structure, with a “head” in each case on the side of shorter wave-lengths. The existence of this head for the 4.3 μ band is also indicated by a comparison with the emission spectrum from a bunsen flame, and the difference in wave-length of the maxima of emission and absorption is explained as a temperature effect similar to that observed with other doublets.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

Ueber die Bedeutung des Wasserdampfes und der Kohlensäure bei der Absorption der Erdatmosphäre – Ångström (1900)

Observations on the Absorption and Emission of Aqueous Vapor and Carbon Dioxide in the Infra-Red Spectrum – Rubens & Aschkinass (1898) “Our experiments carried out as described above on the absorption spectrum carbon dioxide very soon showed that we were dealing with a single absorption band whose maximum lies near λ = 14.7 μ. … The whole region of absorption is limited to the interval from 12.5 μ to 16 μ, with the maximum at 14.7 μ.” [For free full text, click PDF or GIF links in the linked abstract page]

On the absorption of dark heat-rays by gases and vapours – Lecher & Pernter (1881)Svante Arrhenius wrote in his famous 1897 paper: “Tyndall held the opinion that the water-vapour has the greatest influence, whilst other authors, for instance Lecher and Pernter, are inclined to think that the carbonic acid plays the more important part.”.

The Bakerian Lecture – On the Absorption and Radiation of Heat by Gases and Vapours, and on the Physical Connexion of Radiation, Absorption, and Conduction – Tyndall (1861) 150 years ago John Tyndall already showed that carbon dioxide absorbs infrared radiation. [Full text] [Wikipedia: John Tyndall]


Closely related

The HITRAN Database – The laboratory work results on the absorption properties of carbon dioxide (and many other molecules) is contained in this database.



A thread about a snowstorm in April and the response by AGW alarmist is this ^^ a head explosion. Check this response...........:spinner::spinner:............but we thought science was settled s0n!! So why the angst?:dunno::bye1::bye1:
 

flacaltenn

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If you look at isotope studies INDIVIDUALLY, for ONE type of proxy and ONE place on the Globe, you WILL get higher resolutions. And those higher LOCAL studies as I've shown you 11 times WILL have MAYBE a hundred year resolution, but not with FULL PEAK values.

Yep. We patiently wait for you to understand that a single place's climate variability may not that accurately reflect the Earth's climate, and therefore your whole argument rests, as usual, on a severe misunderstanding of climate science. But yeah, you've also introduced us to the brilliant idea that a warming spike comparable to one of the last 80 years might have been brought about by an explosion of methane production by termites, with a subsequent collapse in termite populations, without a trace, and without an established cause for either.

We also wait for you to understand that there is no way towards a warming of 1+°C that would come and go without a trace during the last 10k years. Your months-long hyperventilating about the hockey stick notwithstanding, you haven't come up with any.

There are folks actually interested in climate science - Old Rocks being foremost amongst them on these boards - and there are others more interested in muddying the waters, and obstructing debate, and poisoning the wells of knowledge with references to the lying likes of WUWT (etc.). It's quite easy to identify them by their contempt for truth, and by their lying about the stance of others, like,

... your "apocalyptic faith" that the planet will literally DESTROY itself over a 2degC "trigger temperature".​

"Literally".

You're lecturing ME about the Earth not having just ONE climate zone? :rofl: Shows how little of the 300 pages or more I've put into this forum on the topic. You really should DISCUSS rather than getting personal and attempting to intimadate or maim me.

You want to see warming spikes? They are NOT in the famous hockey stick studies that attempted to divine a complete GLOBAL temperature set over 1000s of years with less than a 100 proxy studies. You know NOTHING about what I said -- which is ALL CORRECT BTW.. You will find BETTER studies of ancient climates by looking for HIGH RESOLUTION LOCAL studies.

For instance -- you will see virtually NO sub - 500 year climate variance in the Vostok (Antarctica)Ice Cores. YET -- if you switch to GREENLAND Ice Cores which have a NATURAL higher resolution in time -- YOU WILL see close to 1degC in 100 years MANY times !!! WHY? Well for one thing --- Antarctica is a desert. VERY LITTLE opportunity to build appreciable land ice year to year. Whereas Greenland gets AMPLE precipt..

So I used to LAUGH when folks like you would shove any ole proxy study in my face and claim PROOF of something. But you're not funny any more.

You want to see 1degC come and go in the historic climate record in a matter of 500 years? Sure -- here it is..
Screen_shot_2012-10-06_at_11.14.04_AM.png


Source of the chart is given in the Pic. Replicated by others. Because LIKE I TOLD YOU --- you can see completely intuitive variance in LOCAL PROXY STUDIES done under high resolution data sets and processing that is COMPLETELY ABSENT from the "GLOBAL hockeysticks" Shove it bro.. Discuss or you're a waste of time...
 
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Hossfly

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If you look at isotope studies INDIVIDUALLY, for ONE type of proxy and ONE place on the Globe, you WILL get higher resolutions. And those higher LOCAL studies as I've shown you 11 times WILL have MAYBE a hundred year resolution, but not with FULL PEAK values.

Yep. We patiently wait for you to understand that a single place's climate variability may not that accurately reflect the Earth's climate, and therefore your whole argument rests, as usual, on a severe misunderstanding of climate science. But yeah, you've also introduced us to the brilliant idea that a warming spike comparable to one of the last 80 years might have been brought about by an explosion of methane production by termites, with a subsequent collapse in termite populations, without a trace, and without an established cause for either.

We also wait for you to understand that there is no way towards a warming of 1+°C that would come and go without a trace during the last 10k years. Your months-long hyperventilating about the hockey stick notwithstanding, you haven't come up with any.

There are folks actually interested in climate science - Old Rocks being foremost amongst them on these boards - and there are others more interested in muddying the waters, and obstructing debate, and poisoning the wells of knowledge with references to the lying likes of WUWT (etc.). It's quite easy to identify them by their contempt for truth, and by their lying about the stance of others, like,

... your "apocalyptic faith" that the planet will literally DESTROY itself over a 2degC "trigger temperature".​

"Literally".



 

flacaltenn

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Global warming is one issue that I'm not convinced of on either side. Maybe convinced isn't the right word...I'm just not sure where I stand on this.
It has gotten a little warmer, averaged world wide. And the rapidity of the warming is much faster than it has been in the past. Those things we know from thermometers and ice core samples. We can't deny the substantial shrinking of the glaciers and the subsequent rise in sea level, either. But whether it can be stopped or whether CO2 has anything to do with it is the question. These deniers, on the other hand, apparently are deeply suspicious of thermometers.

No --- not suspicious of thermometers in the 20th century anyways. But I AM suspicious about the hysterical claims that it's "warming faster than the last xxx Thousand years". Because -- there were no thermometers. And you don't find ice cores GLOBALLY, and tree rings are NOT great thermometers, and the little mud bug shells also used in proxies for those "ancient" temperature studies can't be accurately dated because the little buggers dig and burrow in what is 100s of years of vertical mud in those "core samples". So the bottom line is -- the 0.8degC warming in your lifetime is probably NOT truely exceptional looked at on a climate scale of thousands of years. And all those "proxy studies" lack the time resolution and distributed spatial sampling of the globe to FIND a 1degC change over a 100 years. In fact, they can not find much in the way of variance over spans of 300 to 500 years. So no real conclusions can be made about "natural climate variabilty" from them. Although -- it's now a form of urban legend that they "proved it". .

The rate of warming is NOT increasing as predicted, and most of the 1980s predictions have already failed. CO2 plays a ROLE in this probably, but is NOT the dominant apocalyptic trigger to destroy the planet that it's been made out to be.
You're the scientist, FlaCalTenn, so I will bow to your expertise. It is good to know a little more about why some don't buy the Global Warming theory. The great majority of scientists are buying it though, not just here where it might be politically motivated, but all over the world. This indicates to me that there may be something to it. Thanks for the info, though.


What exactly do you THINK they are buying? Global Warming is just not ONE question. Like -- "is the climate warming" or "what role does man play in that". THOSE are the baby steps. And MOST of the stupid questions like those that form the phony "consensus" -- I agree 100% with. I am not DENYING the basic science..

Where I step off the train are the more RADICAL and APOCALYPTIC pronouncements that got this circus started in the 1980s. Like the "trigger theory" -- which says once we pass 2degC (or some similar but obscure warming level) this planet is gonna IRREVERSIBLY DESTROY itself. Or the "runaway warming" theories that are the ONLY REASON that GW is an issue today.

If the effect is 2.0DegC per century (say) and mankind is responsible for 60% of that -- there's no crisis. Because in a century -- energy generation will likely change. But in the 1980s, the media and a few key scientists started talking about 6 or 8 degC by 2100.. A target not likely to EVER manifest. Given that the "accelerations and feedbacks" are NOWHERE in sight after 30 years of this herd panicking. And FURTHERMORE all the estimates of feedbacks, accelerations, and climate sensitivities have been CONSTANTLY revised downward with each new UN Climate Conference. To the point where -- THEY are almost agreeing my more skeptical viewpoint of CATASTROPHIC GW/CC theories.
 

RollingThunder

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Don't bow to his expertise when it contradicts those who actually do have such qualifications. FCT is not a climate scientist.
No, but he's got more understanding of the issues than I have....

Then your understanding of the issues must be considerably less than zero, I'm afraid. Try to learn from real climate scientists something about the actual science supporting the reality of human caused global warming before you give any credence to a very ignorant and deceitful denier cult troll like that one.





I didn't say I necessarily believe he's right....

Well good for you, that shows some common sense.
 

flacaltenn

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Don't bow to his expertise when it contradicts those who actually do have such qualifications. FCT is not a climate scientist.
No, but he's got more understanding of the issues than I have....

Then your understanding of the issues must be considerably less than zero, I'm afraid. Try to learn from real climate scientists something about the actual science supporting the reality of human caused global warming before you give any credence to a very ignorant and deceitful denier cult troll like that one.





I didn't say I necessarily believe he's right....

Well good for you, that shows some common sense.

Yet -- you can't refute anything I've said in the past 2 pages or so --- can ya? Have at it. By the rules of the forum -- we're ALL off topic here. But the topic REALLY was weather -- not environment or Global Warming.

As a multi-disciplinary scientist -- I can tell you for certain. Anyone who regularly reads and understands Scientific American or the Science Journal -- can understand most details about about temperature proxy studies. Ain't the most complicated math and data processing that I've done or seen..
 
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Olde Europe

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Source of the chart is given in the Pic. Replicated by others. Because LIKE I TOLD YOU --- you can see completely intuitive variance in LOCAL PROXY STUDIES done under high resolution data sets and processing that is COMPLETELY ABSENT from the "GLOBAL hockeysticks" Shove it bro.. Discuss or you're a waste of time...

Here is what Richard B. Alley has to say to those misinterpreting his data:

First off, no single temperature record from anywhere can prove or disprove global warming, because the temperature is a local record, and one site is not the whole world. [...]

An extensive scientific literature exists on this topic, and I believe we are pretty good in the community at properly qualifying our statements to accord with the underlying scientific literature; the blogospheric misuses of the GISP2 isotopic data that I have seen are not doing so, and are making errors of interpretation as a result. [...]

So, using GISP2 data to argue against global warming is, well, stupid, or misguided, or misled, or something, but surely not scientifically sensible. And, using GISP2 data within the larger picture of climate science demonstrates that our scientific understanding is good, supports our expectation of global warming, but raises the small-chance-of-big-problem issue that in turn influences the discussion of optimal human response.​

Local variability does not equate to climate change, the ardent efforts by WUWT, Heartland Institute, Icecap.us or others to insinuate otherwise notwithstanding. Of course, regional cooling / warming by way of transferring energy between regions won't show up in the global temperature record. There really is nothing to discuss here, despite the bold and big fonts, and the personal invective.

Have at it. By the rules of the forum -- we're ALL off topic here.

The topic, I believe, was another denialist revealing he cannot distinguish weather from climate, and that's pretty similar to the inability to tell the difference between local temperature variation and the global climate.
 

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Late winter/early spring snow is nothing unusual in New England
 

flacaltenn

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Source of the chart is given in the Pic. Replicated by others. Because LIKE I TOLD YOU --- you can see completely intuitive variance in LOCAL PROXY STUDIES done under high resolution data sets and processing that is COMPLETELY ABSENT from the "GLOBAL hockeysticks" Shove it bro.. Discuss or you're a waste of time...

Here is what Richard B. Alley has to say to those misinterpreting his data:

First off, no single temperature record from anywhere can prove or disprove global warming, because the temperature is a local record, and one site is not the whole world. [...]

An extensive scientific literature exists on this topic, and I believe we are pretty good in the community at properly qualifying our statements to accord with the underlying scientific literature; the blogospheric misuses of the GISP2 isotopic data that I have seen are not doing so, and are making errors of interpretation as a result. [...]

So, using GISP2 data to argue against global warming is, well, stupid, or misguided, or misled, or something, but surely not scientifically sensible. And, using GISP2 data within the larger picture of climate science demonstrates that our scientific understanding is good, supports our expectation of global warming, but raises the small-chance-of-big-problem issue that in turn influences the discussion of optimal human response.​

Local variability does not equate to climate change, the ardent efforts by WUWT, Heartland Institute, Icecap.us or others to insinuate otherwise notwithstanding. Of course, regional cooling / warming by way of transferring energy between regions won't show up in the global temperature record. There really is nothing to discuss here, despite the bold and big fonts, and the personal invective.

Have at it. By the rules of the forum -- we're ALL off topic here.

The topic, I believe, was another denialist revealing he cannot distinguish weather from climate, and that's pretty similar to the inability to tell the difference between local temperature variation and the global climate.

NO WHERE did he say that his data was wrong.. Did he? I could make the SAME STATEMENT about the "GLOBAL" hockeystick studies..

So, using GISP2 HockeyStick data to argue against for global warming is, well, stupid, or misguided, or misled, or something, but surely not scientifically sensible. And, using GISP2 HockeyStick data within the larger picture of climate science demonstrates that our scientific understanding is good, supports our expectation of global warming, but raises the small-chance-of-big-problem issue that in turn influences the discussion of optimal human response.

You TRYING TO IGNORE that I gave the evidence of 1degC changes coming and going in less than a few hundred years WITHOUT mankind's emissions? Certainly, for the reasons I gave you -- you WOULD NEVER SEE that evidence in the Mann or Marcott Hockey stick studies. And SO WHAT if only represent Northern Hemi data? It's a MORE ACCURATE look at ancient climate data. By the nature of the DATA SET and the subsequent much simplified data prep techniques.

And finally, this one guy is not the ONLY ONE inspecting and reporting on MORE ACCURATE and complete LOCAL proxy studies..

And AGAIN -- shove this PERSONAL sniping and animosity back up your ass.
 

flacaltenn

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There are LOCAL hi resolution proxies from ALL over the globe that show all those warming and cooling periods clearly. YOU just ignore them because they are not a GLOBAL study. That's foolish if by assembling a "GLOBAL" estimate of 1degC changes over 1000s of years with INSUFFICIENT global coverage or time resolution --- results in a SNOOZER statement of only what the LONG TERM running mean was over those periods.

But to impress the PUBLIC and media and the folks BARELY FOLLOWING the science -- attempting to misrepresent those "GLOBAL" studies as EQUIVALENT to the accuracy and coverage of MODERN instrumentation records is unethical and fraudulent.
 

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