Zone1 Issues with the Concept of Sola Scriptura
- Thread starter onefour1
- Start date
The ultimate contradiction within all protestant faiths who hold Sola Scriptura is the fact that Martin Luther rejected Sola Scriptura when he rejected 7 Books of The Bible.
You cannot say on one hand "Sola Scriptura" then on the other hand say, "Except these 7 Books".
Although the Catholic Church is far from perfect and had it not been for its own internal corruption, Martin Luther would have never had a leg to stand on.
That said, Martin Luther initially rejected a book of the Bible - so that he could win an argument and in order to do so, had to reject 6 other books because the only scholar who would validate his claim had rejected 6 other books. So in order to win ONE argument - Martin Luther had to reject 7 books of the Bible.
Why Protestants Reject the Deutero-canonical Books – Short Answer
By Gary Michuta
The short answer is this: When Luther was cornered in a debate over Purgatory, his opponent, Johann Eck, cited 2 Maccabees against Luther’s position. Luther was forced to say that Second Maccabees could not be allowed in the debate because it wasn’t canonical. Later in the debate, Luther appealed to St. Jerome for rejecting Maccabees (the councils of Carthage, Hippo, and Florence all included Macabees as canonical Scripture).
By appealing to Jerome, he also rejected all the other books Jerome rejected (Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, 1st and 2nd Maccabees, Daniel 13, and sections of Esther).
From then on, Luther (and all Protestants) have been trying to justify this removal. Luther in 1534 thought Baruch was “too skimpy” and not lofty enough to be from the scribe of Jeremiah. He also had problems with certain historical elements in Baruch. But in the long run, it really came down to Jerome’s rejection.
As a side note, Jerome rejected it because he thought that a Hebrew manuscript tradition, known as the Masoretic Text, was identical to the inspired originals and all other copies were made from this text. Since the Deuteros were not part of the MT, he rejected them as not being of the canonical Scripture.
What Jerome could not have known was that there were many different Hebrew manuscripts in circulation during the first century and that the Greek Septuagint, a translation made by the Jews around 200 BC, at least in parts, appears to be a very literal translation of a more ancient Hebrew text tradition that is now lost.
This means that Jerome’s idea of “Hebrew truth” (I.e., only that which is found in the Hebrew MT is true) has been demonstrated to be an error. With Jerome’s position no longer tenable, Protestantism really doesn’t have a historical leg to stand on in regards to their OT canon.
Hellokitty
Diamond Member
- Oct 12, 2009
- 11,001
- 11,535
- 2,185
Interesting LDS video using a Catholic teaching.
luiza
Diamond Member
Not only wrong .
But deliberatel ensured it
But deliberatel ensured it
- Thread starter
- #5
In the Bible we learn:
Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Here we learn that until we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ we were to have apostles and prophets in the Church of Jesus Christ. Having Apostles and prophets in the church, would they not have the gift of prophesy and receive revelation from God regarding any issues and questions about God in his church? Continuing revelation is a part of the true church of Jesus Christ and in any day or age that the church exists upon the face of this earth until we all come to a unity of the faith. The cannon of scripture is not closed and further light and truth can be revealed unto the church of Jesus Christ as long as it exists upon the face of this earth.
Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Here we learn that until we all come to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ we were to have apostles and prophets in the Church of Jesus Christ. Having Apostles and prophets in the church, would they not have the gift of prophesy and receive revelation from God regarding any issues and questions about God in his church? Continuing revelation is a part of the true church of Jesus Christ and in any day or age that the church exists upon the face of this earth until we all come to a unity of the faith. The cannon of scripture is not closed and further light and truth can be revealed unto the church of Jesus Christ as long as it exists upon the face of this earth.
Ephesians 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Cougarbear
Platinum Member
- Jan 29, 2022
- 14,394
- 7,232
- 938
That was as good as it gets. Authority by God from God leads to few Churches that claim authority through a prophet, seer and revelator. The Popes have said over and over they are not prophets nor apostles. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only Church with prophets and apostles that has complied with the restitution of all things in the last days as spoken of in Acts 3:21-23. And Ephesians 4:10-14.
- Thread starter
- #7
In the Book of Ezekiel we read:
Ezekiel 37:15-28
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
Here it is prophesied that there would be two writings, ie the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim or Joseph. These two writings would eventually come together and be one in thine hand. The stick of Judah is the record of the Jews and is what we call the Bible today. However, it is prophesied that there would also be a stick of Ephraim or Joseph that would also exist and that the Lord would bring these two records together and they would be one in our hands. The Book of Mormon is a record of a people who were of the tribe of Joseph. If the concept of sola scriptura were true, then this Bible prophesy would be false and no other scripture could come forth. But this prophecy was a direct prophecy from the Lord to the prophet Ezekiel telling us that the words of the people of Joseph would one day be joined to the words of the Jews and they would become one in our hands. This is blblical evidence that the concept of "sola scriptura" is a false concept. Today we have both the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim and they have both become one in our hands.
Ezekiel 37:15-28
15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,
16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18 And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20 And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
Here it is prophesied that there would be two writings, ie the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim or Joseph. These two writings would eventually come together and be one in thine hand. The stick of Judah is the record of the Jews and is what we call the Bible today. However, it is prophesied that there would also be a stick of Ephraim or Joseph that would also exist and that the Lord would bring these two records together and they would be one in our hands. The Book of Mormon is a record of a people who were of the tribe of Joseph. If the concept of sola scriptura were true, then this Bible prophesy would be false and no other scripture could come forth. But this prophecy was a direct prophecy from the Lord to the prophet Ezekiel telling us that the words of the people of Joseph would one day be joined to the words of the Jews and they would become one in our hands. This is blblical evidence that the concept of "sola scriptura" is a false concept. Today we have both the stick of Judah and the stick of Ephraim and they have both become one in our hands.
Zebra
Gold Member
Was Luther wrong, then?
- Thread starter
- #10
Luther was correct in that he saw the Catholic Church as not being the true church of Jesus Christ. However, he also understood that he himself did not receive revelation and thus looked for an authority to grasp onto to lead his reformation to truth. He looked to the Bible as being the sole authority for his reformation. The problem with the concept of "Sola Scriptura" is that you deny that God can ever reveal any new or necessary revelation above and beyond the Bible. We learn in the Bible that the true church of God was to always have apostles and prophets who could receive revelation from God to guide the church in the paths of righteousness.
Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Similar threads
