Debate Now Issues Now and Ongoing

[Foxfyre]

I’ve said it countless times, we need to first deport anyone supporting the Invasion

But you can't deport a U.S. citizen. Just those who have no right to be here.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

But you can't deport a U.S. citizen. Just those who have no right to be here.

Of course! Because the alternative is that they are tried for Treason

 

[Foxfyre]

Of course! Because the alternative is that they are tried for Treason

Those who commit treason should beheld accountable and, unless the law has been changed, I do believe U.S. citizenship can be revoked from those convicted of high treason. (I haven't looked up those law in a long time so am working from memory here.)

But certainly non citizens who break our laws can be deported. And if they are here illegally, they have broken our laws.

I suspect that if we have a President and congress who have the courage and will to send people home who shouldn't be here, a lot of that can be accomplished by making it illegal for them to work here and denying them any right to U.S. services other than the most immediate humanitarian aid. With no future and no quality of life here, I think most will voluntarily go back to where they came from. The rest ICE and the CBP can forcibly eject.

Personally I think those who leave voluntarily should be able apply to come back legally through normal channels. Those who refuse to leave voluntarily or who have committed serious crimes here should have no right of return through any channel.

Then Congress needs to pass some practical laws that allows necessary foreign workers to come in to do whatever on condition they then immediately return home. Fail to do that or otherwise overstay a VISA and you will not be allowed to come back legally ever again.

 

[JoeB131]

Those who commit treason should beheld accountable and, unless the law has been changed, I do believe U.S. citizenship can be revoked from those convicted of high treason. (I haven't looked up those law in a long time so am working from memory here.)

But certainly non citizens who break our laws can be deported. And if they are here illegally, they have broken our laws.

I suspect that if we have a President and congress who have the courage and will to send people home who shouldn't be here, a lot of that can be accomplished by making it illegal for them to work here and denying them any right to U.S. services other than the most immediate humanitarian aid. With no future and no quality of life here, I think most will voluntarily go back to where they came from. The rest ICE and the CBP can forcibly eject.

Personally I think those who leave voluntarily should be able apply to come back legally through normal channels. Those who refuse to leave voluntarily or who have committed serious crimes here should have no right of return through any channel.

Then Congress needs to pass some practical laws that allows necessary foreign workers to come in to do whatever on condition they then immediately return home. Fail to do that or otherwise overstay a VISA and you will not be allowed to come back legally ever again.

Again, as long as mostly rich white people are hiring undocumented immigrants, they will keep coming.

You send them back, someone else will take their place. Always. You hear the horror stories of the immigrant who was deported six times and was involved in a traffic accident. Deporting them doesn't work as long as the incentives to come here are so great.

So, if you really want to fix immigration, this is what you need to do.

1) Establish a National ID system based on Social Security, with biometric information.
2) Strictly enforce workplace eligibility, including severe fines for repeat offenders.
3) Allow employees to report employers who are breaking the rules.
4) Sufficiently staff immigration courts to quickly resolve immigration cases. No waiting 7 years for an asylum hearing.
5) Provide foreign aid to countries where the immigrants are coming from to reduce poverty driving immigration.

We won't do any of those things, of course, they are too humane for the half of the population who thinks Jesus hates Gays and Mexicans, just like they do.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, as long as mostly rich white people are hiring undocumented immigrants, they will keep coming.

You send them back, someone else will take their place. Always. You hear the horror stories of the immigrant who was deported six times and was involved in a traffic accident. Deporting them doesn't work as long as the incentives to come here are so great.

So, if you really want to fix immigration, this is what you need to do.

1) Establish a National ID system based on Social Security, with biometric information.
2) Strictly enforce workplace eligibility, including severe fines for repeat offenders.
3) Allow employees to report employers who are breaking the rules.
4) Sufficiently staff immigration courts to quickly resolve immigration cases. No waiting 7 years for an asylum hearing.
5) Provide foreign aid to countries where the immigrants are coming from to reduce poverty driving immigration.

We won't do any of those things, of course, they are too humane for the half of the population who thinks Jesus hates Gays and Mexicans, just like they do.

We are at sufficient risk now of identity theft with the information on our driver's licenses, credit cards etc. without adding a social security number. However, no one who is not a citizen should be able to get a certified Photo ID that, along with proof of current residency, would allow a person to register to vote, could be shown to verify identity when we vote, and I would have no problem with a federal requirement that employers must see that certified photo ID or other proof of citizenship before they hire somebody.

It would be ridiculous to hire enough personnel to process amnesty requests for hundreds of thousands or millions of illegals arriving each and every year. Far better to make it so difficult, unpractical and unpleasant to come here illegally that the CBP, ICE and amnesty courts can easily handle the rest. Requiring people to stay in Mexico or wherever while their amnesty request are processed also pretty much solves the problem.

And it should be generally understood that we expect those seeking amnesty to seek it in the first country they come to and/or be from a country in which we recognize amnesty requests because of conditions in those countries. It is ridiculous to simply grant amnesty from anybody from Canada or Mexico who decides to come to the USA instead of requiring them to go through the legal process for legal admission.

And the USA cannot alleviate poverty for the entire world. We can be a shining example of how a country pulls its people out of poverty, but if we take resources from American citizens sufficient to make a difference in even some of the poor areas of the world, we will so weaken ourselves that we will join the world's poor and will be unable to help ourselves or anybody else.

 

[JoeB131]

We are at sufficient risk now of identity theft with the information on our driver's licenses, credit cards etc. without adding a social security number. However, no one who is not a citizen should be able to get a certified Photo ID that, along with proof of current residency, would allow a person to register to vote, could be shown to verify identity when we vote, and I would have no problem with a federal requirement that employers must see that certified photo ID or other proof of citizenship before they hire somebody.

Again, I'm trying to deal with REAL problems, not your imaginary "The darkies are going to vote unless we make it difficult for them!" panics.

The National ID will be separate from the DL/State ID. It will not confer a right to vote (that's still a state prerogative) or be proof of residency. Its ONLY function should be establishing the right to work. The problem people are already stealing SSNs. By the truckload. But because an SSN is only a piece of (cheap) paper, it's easy to fake.

It would be ridiculous to hire enough personnel to process amnesty requests for hundreds of thousands or millions of illegals arriving each and every year. Far better to make it so difficult, unpractical and unpleasant to come here illegally that the CBP, ICE and amnesty courts can easily handle the rest. Requiring people to stay in Mexico or wherever while their amnesty request are processed also pretty much solves the problem.

Stay in Mexico never worked. Mexico realized they were being played for fools and stopped going along with it, and you really can't make them.

Processing a case quickly would be a quick deterrent as the people who have bogus cases will be sent back almost immediately, and it won't even be worth trying. But if they know it's going to be seven years before anyone hears their case, that's enough to time to get married, get other jobs, drop an anchor baby or do any number of things.

And it should be generally understood that we expect those seeking amnesty to seek it in the first country they come to and/or be from a country in which we recognize amnesty requests because of conditions in those countries. It is ridiculous to simply grant amnesty from anybody from Canada or Mexico who decides to come to the USA instead of requiring them to go through the legal process for legal admission.

Awesome. That's not what the law says. The law says they can request Amnesty the minute they set foot. The law says that because in the 1930's, we told a bunch of Jews they had to apply in their home countries, and it didn't work out well for them.

And the USA cannot alleviate poverty for the entire world. We can be a shining example of how a country pulls its people out of poverty, but if we take resources from American citizens sufficient to make a difference in even some of the poor areas of the world, we will so weaken ourselves that we will join the world's poor and will be unable to help ourselves or anybody else.

If we could rebuild Europe with the Marshall Plan, we can rebuild Latin America to make it more liveable.

But again, that would be the humane thing to do, so I don't expect that out of the current right wing in this country.

 

[Foxfyre]

Again, I'm trying to deal with REAL problems, not your imaginary "The darkies are going to vote unless we make it difficult for them!" panics.

The National ID will be separate from the DL/State ID. It will not confer a right to vote (that's still a state prerogative) or be proof of residency. Its ONLY function should be establishing the right to work. The problem people are already stealing SSNs. By the truckload. But because an SSN is only a piece of (cheap) paper, it's easy to fake.





Stay in Mexico never worked. Mexico realized they were being played for fools and stopped going along with it, and you really can't make them.

Processing a case quickly would be a quick deterrent as the people who have bogus cases will be sent back almost immediately, and it won't even be worth trying. But if they know it's going to be seven years before anyone hears their case, that's enough to time to get married, get other jobs, drop an anchor baby or do any number of things.




Awesome. That's not what the law says. The law says they can request Amnesty the minute they set foot. The law says that because in the 1930's, we told a bunch of Jews they had to apply in their home countries, and it didn't work out well for them.



If we could rebuild Europe with the Marshall Plan, we can rebuild Latin America to make it more liveable.

But again, that would be the humane thing to do, so I don't expect that out of the current right wing in this country.

I didn't get any further than you're ugly ad hominem reference. I stand by my previous post. Have a nice night.

 

[JoeB131]

I didn't get any further than you're ugly ad hominem reference. I stand by my previous post. Have a nice night.

I get it. YOu guys want to use voter ID to be the new Literacy Test, don't pretend it's anything other than that.