Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15

[Billo_Really]

They can leave and they do abroad. Gaza has no port, Hamas refused it time and time again.
Better tell me which law obligates any country to give entrance to a subject of an enemy state?

You're a fuckin' liar!

[Israel] "...does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades..."

"Israel’s restrictions on access to and from Gaza go far beyond what is permitted by international humanitarian law and human rights law. Because Israel continues to exercise control over significant aspects of life in Gaza, it continues to have obligations under the law of occupation in the areas in which it continues to exercise control..."​

Israel also shoots unarmed protesters.

Fuckers like you, act as though the Palestinians don't have the right to have rights. Fuckers like you are cowards. You never talk about the evil you bring to the table.

 

[rylah]

They can leave and they do abroad. Gaza has no port, Hamas refused it time and time again.
Better tell me which law obligates any country to give entrance to a subject of an enemy state?

You're a fuckin' liar!

[Israel] "...does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades..."

"Israel’s restrictions on access to and from Gaza go far beyond what is permitted by international humanitarian law and human rights law. Because Israel continues to exercise control over significant aspects of life in Gaza, it continues to have obligations under the law of occupation in the areas in which it continues to exercise control..."​

Israel also shoots unarmed protesters.

Fuckers like you, act as though the Palestinians don't have the right to have rights. Fuckers like you are cowards. You never talk about the evil you bring to the table.

Next time try a real source.

Gazans leaving Gaza
Gazans in Egypt.
Gazans in Berlin

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

 

[dannyboys]

If the Israeli soldiers only killed 16 rioters I strongly urge the Israeli gov. to train the soldiers better in aiming their weapons.

 

[harmonica]

good--keep shooting the violent, murderous terrorists

And what about your violent, murderous terrorists?

which ones would that be??

 

[Billo_Really]

Next time try a real source.

Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals. You don't consider Human Rights Watch a real source? Is it because you don't consider human rights real?

Gazans leaving Gaza

You picked this only because it contained the words "Palestinians leaving Gaza". Talk about a ruse...

Gazans in Egypt.

160 Palestinians out of 2 million? And you're using this to argue Gazans can leave the area as they wish?

From your own source...

"The Gaza Strip - home to some two million Palestinians - does not have an airport and has been under an Israeli land, sea and air blockade for over a decade."​

So your argument is, even though there is an Israeli blockade of Gaza, people can freely come and go as they please?

Gazans in Berlin

As far as the girl in Berlin...

"She hopes that her husband and her parents will soon join her, but so far all of her parents efforts to leave Gaza have failed."
​

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

I don't see a law that allows Israel to make decisions for other country's.

 

[Billo_Really]

which ones would that be??

Right off the top of my head, how 'bout Israeli snipers shooting unarmed Palestinians?

 

[rylah]

Next time try a real source.

Ad hominems are not valid rebuttals. You don't consider Human Rights Watch a real source? Is it because you don't consider human rights real?

Gazans leaving Gaza

You picked this only because it contained the words "Palestinians leaving Gaza". Talk about a ruse...

Gazans in Egypt.

160 Palestinians out of 2 million? And you're using this to argue Gazans can leave the area as they wish?

From your own source...

"The Gaza Strip - home to some two million Palestinians - does not have an airport and has been under an Israeli land, sea and air blockade for over a decade."​

So your argument is, even though there is an Israeli blockade of Gaza, people can freely come and go as they please?

Gazans in Berlin

As far as the girl in Berlin...

"She hopes that her husband and her parents will soon join her, but so far all of her parents efforts to leave Gaza have failed."
​

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

I don't see a law that allows Israel to make decisions for other country's.

All it took me was 1 post and You confirm that You're full of it.

No law no whining. When Hamas stop their stupid wars, Israel and Egypt might be more accommodating - but they owe NOTHING to the Gazans.

BTW Hamas themselves closed the crossings more than once blocking their own people from leaving.

 

[harmonica]

which ones would that be??

Right off the top of my head, how 'bout Israeli snipers shooting unarmed Palestinians?

..in general it is not the policy of Israelis to murder/target innocent civilians
..there will always be mistakes/errors/lone wolves/etc--but it is not Israel's policy to murder/target innocent civilians
it IS the policy of the Pals to murder/directly target innocent civilians

 

[Hollie]

which ones would that be??

Right off the top of my head, how 'bout Israeli snipers shooting unarmed Palestinians?

I think you mean unarmed Arabs-Moslems excepting the Arabs-Moslems armed with Molotov cocktails and explosives.

After all, Hamas is paying the minions for their injuries, so why not take one for the gee-had?

 

[harmonica]

which ones would that be??

Right off the top of my head, how 'bout Israeli snipers shooting unarmed Palestinians?

I've been through this before on other threads and proved it--Israel does not generally/not policy to murder civilians as it is for the Pals

 

[Correll]

They can leave and they do abroad. Gaza has no port, Hamas refused it time and time again.
Better tell me which law obligates any country to give entrance to a subject of an enemy state?

You're a fuckin' liar!

[Israel] "...does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades..."

"Israel’s restrictions on access to and from Gaza go far beyond what is permitted by international humanitarian law and human rights law. Because Israel continues to exercise control over significant aspects of life in Gaza, it continues to have obligations under the law of occupation in the areas in which it continues to exercise control..."​

Israel also shoots unarmed protesters.

Fuckers like you, act as though the Palestinians don't have the right to have rights. Fuckers like you are cowards. You never talk about the evil you bring to the table.

Next time try a real source.

Gazans leaving Gaza
Gazans in Egypt.
Gazans in Berlin

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

I wonder why the Egyptians so tightly control travel into and out of Gaza.


Are they working with the Jews?

 

[Hollie]

Employees at Pallywood Productions Inc., are working overtime

 

[rylah]

They can leave and they do abroad. Gaza has no port, Hamas refused it time and time again.
Better tell me which law obligates any country to give entrance to a subject of an enemy state?

You're a fuckin' liar!

[Israel] "...does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades..."

"Israel’s restrictions on access to and from Gaza go far beyond what is permitted by international humanitarian law and human rights law. Because Israel continues to exercise control over significant aspects of life in Gaza, it continues to have obligations under the law of occupation in the areas in which it continues to exercise control..."​

Israel also shoots unarmed protesters.

Fuckers like you, act as though the Palestinians don't have the right to have rights. Fuckers like you are cowards. You never talk about the evil you bring to the table.

Next time try a real source.

Gazans leaving Gaza
Gazans in Egypt.
Gazans in Berlin

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

I wonder why the Egyptians so tightly control travel into and out of Gaza.


Are they working with the Jews?

Egypt has it's own security interests.
In one word- ARMS TRAFFICKING PREVENTION:



Egypt also fights the Islamic state in Sinai, while their militants infiltrate Gaza.
Just two weeks ago they jammed all their communication to spot the Islamists from Sinai in Gaza.

Not to mention that Egypt doesn't look all to well at Gaza becoming an Iranian proxy.
It's a serious problem in the neighborhood.

 

[Correll]

They can leave and they do abroad. Gaza has no port, Hamas refused it time and time again.
Better tell me which law obligates any country to give entrance to a subject of an enemy state?

You're a fuckin' liar!

[Israel] "...does not permit Palestinian, Israeli and foreign staff of human rights organizations to enter or leave Gaza. Israel controls Gaza’s airspace and territorial waters and has prevented the operation of an airport or seaport for the past two decades..."

"Israel’s restrictions on access to and from Gaza go far beyond what is permitted by international humanitarian law and human rights law. Because Israel continues to exercise control over significant aspects of life in Gaza, it continues to have obligations under the law of occupation in the areas in which it continues to exercise control..."​

Israel also shoots unarmed protesters.

Fuckers like you, act as though the Palestinians don't have the right to have rights. Fuckers like you are cowards. You never talk about the evil you bring to the table.

Next time try a real source.

Gazans leaving Gaza
Gazans in Egypt.
Gazans in Berlin

I still don't see the law that obligates a country to give entrance to subjects of an enemy state.

I wonder why the Egyptians so tightly control travel into and out of Gaza.


Are they working with the Jews?

Egypt has it's own security interests.
In one word- ARMS TRAFFICKING PREVENTION:



Egypt also fights the Islamic state in Sinai, while their militants infiltrate Gaza.
Just two weeks ago they jammed all their communication to spot the Islamists from Sinai in Gaza.

Not to mention that Egypt doesn't look all to well at Gaza becoming an Iranian proxy.
It's a serious problem.

Jeez, Gaza, a hot bed of terrorism? Who would have thunk it?

 

[Coyote]

Here's Murtaja using a drone during the march.

Ok, that clarifies it somewhat, but does not justify his killing. I guess Drones have become a common journalistic tool these days it seems. Killing journalists is a way of intimidating reporting of an event. And has become far to common a tactic to suppress the media in certain parts of the world. This wasn’t a war, this was a demonstration turned violent. A journalist should not have been targeted. His final piece was quite beautifully done, showing a lot of promise now gone.

Palestinian journalist's final footage from Israel-Gaza border released | CBC Radio
'Putting himself at risk'
Murtaja, 30, was the co-founder of Ain, a local TV production company that has done projects, including aerial drone video, for foreign media clients such as the BBC and Al Jazeera English.

He was one of the first to bring a drone camera into Gaza and his images captivated many of its residents who have never seen Gaza from above since it has no airport or skyscrapers.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

What I think "collective punishment " is (like lining people up against the wall and shooting them) and what you think "collective punishment" is, are different things.

I agree nothing can justify terrorism.

But here are two things.

Are you saying collective punishment is justified?

In my view, like terrorism, it is never justified.

The second thing is, why did they vote in Hamas?

(COMMENT)

The First Thing:

✪ I cannot think of a true "collective punishment" that is justified. But I don't confuse a "adverse consequence" on a population for their actions, and a "collective punishment."

✪ Remember, the blockade is no more an "illegal collective punishment" than in the imposition of "approved sanctions - imbargoes - or boycotts."​

The Second Thing: The vote is an alternative is between people who wanted change in the hope of progress (not the status quo) → and → people who want to preserve the devil they knew (what peace and security they had), versus the devil they did not know (continuous cycle of violence). ⇒ It is two different views of that particular segment of society.

✪ A generation ago (30 years) ⇒ there were those that thought they saw an opportunity to establish a "Holy Possession" that would afford compelling and charming personality with dynamic traits that would appeal to the young Arab, attract those Arabs with a taste for revenge, and alluring to others that could not resist the compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.

✪ Some, within the Arab Palestinian population, began to see themselves as havingthe embodied qualities of strength, courage and determination. They gradually developed into into a single-minded, action-oriented, Islamic version of the Warrior Spirit, one worthy of fighting the glamourous Jihad.
​

The Arab Palestinian, inter-culturally gradually spawned a group dynamic not so dissimilar from the Western relentless and committed souls that were born out of the desperation of the day → almost a form of spirituality; → joining the fight against the social injustices as they perceived them.

“Victory at all costs,
victory in spite of all terror,
victory however long and hard the road may be;
for without victory, there is no survival.”
..................— Winston Churchill
​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Wait. Hold on here. Isn't calling to rip the hearts out of Jews/Israelis "collective punishment"?

Only if it is taken into action against a people they have the power to punish. Otherwise it is rhetoric, terrorism or murder.

 

[Coyote]

Here's Murtaja using a drone during the march.

And?

I didn't see it flying into Israeli air space, flying over IDF, didn't see any petrol bombs, hand grenades, cruise missiles attached to the drone...

So, thank you for showing that the Israel, once again, has murdered unarmed civilians!

The guy called himself a soldier
He used a drone during violent confrontation initiated by his side
Hamas chief came to his funeral.
His cousin is a proven militant


The Arabs LIED from day one that he didn't use the drone.

Israelis on the other hand openly stated that they were not sure, or find evidence about the drone in response to Lieberman and opened an investigation. One doesn't get more openness and self critique than that in a civilized country.

The Gazans are their worst enemies, since day one of the march they, and their govt did every possible mistake to discredit themselves and give Israel every moral basis to act against their provocations. Even the Arab world sees it.

So much for calling everyone a lier....next time when You don't know for sure try to be less disrespectful and biased. It will make You look relevant, and add weight to Your words.

Of course Hamas would come to his funeral. It is a great propaganda moment.

Hamas is intertwined in the governance of Gaza. It is impossible to find someone who doesn’t have a relative or friend associated with them. Guilt by association.

 

[Coyote]

Isn’t collective punishment in and of itself conducive to the spread of terrorism?

A crowd is throwing Malotov the Cocktails

Isn’t collective punishment in and of itself conducive to the spread of terrorism?

You have an out of control crowd throwing Malatov Cocktails, using Bow and Arriws and other home made devices, setting fires, trying to actually enter Israel, etc. What should Israel have done?

I already asked that in post 823. But when I mentioned collective punishment I wasn’t referring to this demonstration. I understand Israel’s actions.

 

[Coyote]

RE: Israeli forces shoot unarmed protesters from across Gaza security fence, killing at least 15
※→ Coyote, et al,

What I think "collective punishment " is (like lining people up against the wall and shooting them) and what you think "collective punishment" is, are different things.

I agree nothing can justify terrorism.

But here are two things.

Are you saying collective punishment is justified?

In my view, like terrorism, it is never justified.

The second thing is, why did they vote in Hamas?

(COMMENT)

The First Thing:

✪ I cannot think of a true "collective punishment" that is justified. But I don't confuse a "adverse consequence" on a population for their actions, and a "collective punishment."

✪ Remember, the blockade is no more an "illegal collective punishment" than in the imposition of "approved sanctions - imbargoes - or boycotts."​

The Second Thing: The vote is an alternative is between people who wanted change in the hope of progress (not the status quo) → and → people who want to preserve the devil they knew (what peace and security they had), versus the devil they did not know (continuous cycle of violence). ⇒ It is two different views of that particular segment of society.

✪ A generation ago (30 years) ⇒ there were those that thought they saw an opportunity to establish a "Holy Possession" that would afford compelling and charming personality with dynamic traits that would appeal to the young Arab, attract those Arabs with a taste for revenge, and alluring to others that could not resist the compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.

✪ Some, within the Arab Palestinian population, began to see themselves as havingthe embodied qualities of strength, courage and determination. They gradually developed into into a single-minded, action-oriented, Islamic version of the Warrior Spirit, one worthy of fighting the glamourous Jihad.
​

The Arab Palestinian, inter-culturally gradually spawned a group dynamic not so dissimilar from the Western relentless and committed souls that were born out of the desperation of the day → almost a form of spirituality; → joining the fight against the social injustices as they perceived them.

“Victory at all costs,
victory in spite of all terror,
victory however long and hard the road may be;
for without victory, there is no survival.”
..................— Winston Churchill
​

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you