Israeli-Arab war - tactics, intent and morality

[Hollie]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There is no such thing as a Universal Moral Standard. What is acceptable is determined differently in each area, demographic or another rendering. The official power to make legal decisions and judgments varies among jurisdictions and sovereignties.

Moral Codes generally drive Judgments, but laws must be enforceable. Even in the most radical Islamic Religious enforcement systems, the enforcement of criminal law and moral (religious) law are separated.

Can you morally justify bombing family homes wiping out entire families?

(COMMENT)

In the case of "terrorism" and the countermeasures applied against terrorism are set by defined standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is acceptable within that venue or jurisdiction.

In the case of a State that faces an adversary that has little regard for human life, and deliberately attacking civilians are committing acts of terror. As a general rule, the law of armed conflict prohibits the intentional targeting and attacks on civilians. This would be committing criminal acts intended to provoke fear and terror in the general the civilian population (considered protected) political purposes. This would include such act supporting National Liberation Movements (NLMs). Such acts are unjustifiable. It does not matter whatever what invoked the action.

​

United Nations solemnly reaffirm their unequivocal condemnation of all acts, methods and practices of terrorism, as criminal and unjustifiable, wherever and by whomever committed, including those which jeopardize the friendly relations among States and peoples and threaten the territorial integrity and security of States;​

​

​

SOURCE: A/RES/49/60​

​

There is no equivocation here. If you cross that line, there is no coming back morally under the current climate. The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) cannot claim (with their track record and intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law) that Israel is immoral because they conduct operations against necessary targets that kill civilians incidental to the operation → yet the HoAP have conducted intentional targeting of protected civilians for more than half a century.

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally locate military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally introduce civilians under its control in the vicinity of military objectives.​

The question becomes an issue of equality. Should the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinian population in the same fashion and with the same blatant disregard for human life as they treat Israeli civilians?

The answer (of course) is no! Israel cannot act with the same callous disregard for human life that the HoAP show.


Most Respectfully,
R

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

Actually, you don't appear to have standards.

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There is no such thing as a Universal Moral Standard. What is acceptable is determined differently in each area, demographic or another rendering. The official power to make legal decisions and judgments varies among jurisdictions and sovereignties.

Moral Codes generally drive Judgments, but laws must be enforceable. Even in the most radical Islamic Religious enforcement systems, the enforcement of criminal law and moral (religious) law are separated.

Can you morally justify bombing family homes wiping out entire families?

(COMMENT)

In the case of "terrorism" and the countermeasures applied against terrorism are set by defined standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is acceptable within that venue or jurisdiction.

In the case of a State that faces an adversary that has little regard for human life, and deliberately attacking civilians are committing acts of terror. As a general rule, the law of armed conflict prohibits the intentional targeting and attacks on civilians. This would be committing criminal acts intended to provoke fear and terror in the general the civilian population (considered protected) political purposes. This would include such act supporting National Liberation Movements (NLMs). Such acts are unjustifiable. It does not matter whatever what invoked the action.

​

United Nations solemnly reaffirm their unequivocal condemnation of all acts, methods and practices of terrorism, as criminal and unjustifiable, wherever and by whomever committed, including those which jeopardize the friendly relations among States and peoples and threaten the territorial integrity and security of States;​

​

​

SOURCE: A/RES/49/60​

​

There is no equivocation here. If you cross that line, there is no coming back morally under the current climate. The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) cannot claim (with their track record and intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law) that Israel is immoral because they conduct operations against necessary targets that kill civilians incidental to the operation → yet the HoAP have conducted intentional targeting of protected civilians for more than half a century.

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally locate military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally introduce civilians under its control in the vicinity of military objectives.​

The question becomes an issue of equality. Should the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinian population in the same fashion and with the same blatant disregard for human life as they treat Israeli civilians?

The answer (of course) is no! Israel cannot act with the same callous disregard for human life that the HoAP show.


Most Respectfully,
R

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

Actually, you don't appear to have standards.

You haven't been paying attention.

 

[Hollie]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

 

[Hollie]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There is no such thing as a Universal Moral Standard. What is acceptable is determined differently in each area, demographic or another rendering. The official power to make legal decisions and judgments varies among jurisdictions and sovereignties.

Moral Codes generally drive Judgments, but laws must be enforceable. Even in the most radical Islamic Religious enforcement systems, the enforcement of criminal law and moral (religious) law are separated.

Can you morally justify bombing family homes wiping out entire families?

(COMMENT)

In the case of "terrorism" and the countermeasures applied against terrorism are set by defined standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is acceptable within that venue or jurisdiction.

In the case of a State that faces an adversary that has little regard for human life, and deliberately attacking civilians are committing acts of terror. As a general rule, the law of armed conflict prohibits the intentional targeting and attacks on civilians. This would be committing criminal acts intended to provoke fear and terror in the general the civilian population (considered protected) political purposes. This would include such act supporting National Liberation Movements (NLMs). Such acts are unjustifiable. It does not matter whatever what invoked the action.

​

United Nations solemnly reaffirm their unequivocal condemnation of all acts, methods and practices of terrorism, as criminal and unjustifiable, wherever and by whomever committed, including those which jeopardize the friendly relations among States and peoples and threaten the territorial integrity and security of States;​

​

​

SOURCE: A/RES/49/60​

​

There is no equivocation here. If you cross that line, there is no coming back morally under the current climate. The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) cannot claim (with their track record and intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law) that Israel is immoral because they conduct operations against necessary targets that kill civilians incidental to the operation → yet the HoAP have conducted intentional targeting of protected civilians for more than half a century.

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally locate military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally introduce civilians under its control in the vicinity of military objectives.​

The question becomes an issue of equality. Should the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinian population in the same fashion and with the same blatant disregard for human life as they treat Israeli civilians?

The answer (of course) is no! Israel cannot act with the same callous disregard for human life that the HoAP show.


Most Respectfully,
R

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

Actually, you don't appear to have standards.

You haven't been paying attention.

You're not understanding.

 

[harmonica]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: There is no such thing as a Universal Moral Standard. What is acceptable is determined differently in each area, demographic or another rendering. The official power to make legal decisions and judgments varies among jurisdictions and sovereignties.

Moral Codes generally drive Judgments, but laws must be enforceable. Even in the most radical Islamic Religious enforcement systems, the enforcement of criminal law and moral (religious) law are separated.

Can you morally justify bombing family homes wiping out entire families?

(COMMENT)

In the case of "terrorism" and the countermeasures applied against terrorism are set by defined standards of behavior or beliefs concerning what is acceptable within that venue or jurisdiction.

In the case of a State that faces an adversary that has little regard for human life, and deliberately attacking civilians are committing acts of terror. As a general rule, the law of armed conflict prohibits the intentional targeting and attacks on civilians. This would be committing criminal acts intended to provoke fear and terror in the general the civilian population (considered protected) political purposes. This would include such act supporting National Liberation Movements (NLMs). Such acts are unjustifiable. It does not matter whatever what invoked the action.

​

United Nations solemnly reaffirm their unequivocal condemnation of all acts, methods and practices of terrorism, as criminal and unjustifiable, wherever and by whomever committed, including those which jeopardize the friendly relations among States and peoples and threaten the territorial integrity and security of States;​

​

​

SOURCE: A/RES/49/60​

​

There is no equivocation here. If you cross that line, there is no coming back morally under the current climate. The Hostile Arab Palestinians (HoAP) cannot claim (with their track record and intentional violations of Customary and International Humanitarian Law) that Israel is immoral because they conduct operations against necessary targets that kill civilians incidental to the operation → yet the HoAP have conducted intentional targeting of protected civilians for more than half a century.

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally locate military objectives within or near densely populated areas.​

​

◈ The HoAP cannot throw a flag on the play and cry foul when they intentionally introduce civilians under its control in the vicinity of military objectives.​

The question becomes an issue of equality. Should the Israelis treat the Arab Palestinian population in the same fashion and with the same blatant disregard for human life as they treat Israeli civilians?

The answer (of course) is no! Israel cannot act with the same callous disregard for human life that the HoAP show.


Most Respectfully,
R

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

...if they are not directly targeted, it's not unlawful---hey--this is real life--not the movies
..what do you not understand about human error?

 

[harmonica]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

....Israel has shown immense restraint in not shoving the Pals into the sea
...even their own kind has problems with them--they assassinate and murder their own kind, not just Israelis

Black September - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rylah]

RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: "The Militants"

Basic moral question -

in case there's a building with militants about whom there's information of readiness to attack your side,and before/after the attack, they put babies at the windows. Who's responsible for their death if they get killed?

(REASON)

Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions prohibits the taking of hostages → and → Customary and International Humanitarian Law Rule 24: Each party to the conflict must, to the extent feasible, remove civilian persons and objects under its control from the vicinity of military objectives.

ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) → and → Customary and International Humanitarian Law Rule 97: Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts.

₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪​

(COMMENT)

Civilian Casualties evaluations are all about the expected military advantage compared to the risk of civilian casualties. This can be an important decision factor on how set the Rules of Engagement (ROE) relative to the risk of civilian deaths → versus → the necessity of reaching the objective.

Most Respectfully,
R

Multiple human rights and other organization have found no evidense that the Palestinians use human shields.

But what do you think about this tactic?
Does it serve escalation or ceasing confrontation?

That is what we need to discuss but we have to put things in context first.

What does context or narrative matter,
if you haven't yet to establish a consistent definition?

Good question. One person carries a bomb into a market, another drops a bomb from an airplane.

Which one is the terrorist?

easy:
...the one who directly targets civilians ..if they do not directly target civilians, then, generally, not terrorism

OK.

Remember These Children 2014 Memorial

..that's nowhere close to credible evidence/link/etc

----here--this one was sabotaging a barrier---and --what's the FULL story?
..this is EXACTLY like the WHITE cop MURDERS stories--they are full of myths
from your link:
Youssef Shawamra, 15, of Deir Al-Asal al Fauqa, near Hebron, shot and killed by IDF soldiers for allegedly sabotaging Israel’s separation barrier. The boy’s family says the child was collecting thistle along the barrier.

.....so, according to his family he wasn't doing anything wrong= right there, that is unsubstantiated
..his family says so!!!

here's another:
Mohammed Jihad Dudeen, 15, of Dura, near Hebron, shot during an Israeli military raid. Israeli troops arrested 25 people throughout the West Bank as they searched for three missing Israeli youths.

so what? civilians die in wars --a lot are not directly targeted....you have to prove he was:
1. innocent
2. directly targeted

Many of those children were killed when Israel bombed their family home.

...you must not know much about wars/military history...
...civilians die in wars---and it's not because of illegal means
...and, I've stated for it to be unlawful, they have to be directly targeted--it is not Israeli policy to directly target innocent civilians--because of the Holocaust----of ALL people, they know how wrong that is

A family home is a civilian structure full of civilians.

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.

Can you morally justify bombing family homes wiping out entire families?

Strange that you ask after justifying suicide bombing.

There're 3 situations I can think of in which 'wiping out entire families' is legitimate and effective:

a. When a family home used as military installation to launch attack
b. When the family hosts a commander who's elimination sabotages enemy's coordination
c. When elimination of the family results in overwhelming the enemy, and cease of confrontation.

For example the Ja'abri tribe once coordinated the elimination of a member of their family,
a Hamas commander in Gaza, it both helped disrupt their chain of command,
and solved a long bloody family dispute.

Since then they're no pawns of any Hamas rivalry,
and the family is having a relatively calm life.

 

[rylah]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

But you don't know that.

I can also ask -

would Arabs need to resort to deceiving with photos from other conflicts,
or stealing pictures of missing and disabled American kids,
if they weren't exaggerating about the situation?

 

[rylah]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

Again, that's just your bias talking,
but you don't know that.

And remind you - the discussion is about the effectiveness of tactics,
so far your reluctance to address that, suggests you know to be unjustifiably low.

 

[rylah]

Only the aggressor can deescalate. Aggression continues with or without defense.

And if the response to aggression is capable to overwhelm the aggressor to cease confrontation, and in the case of suicide bomber, what aggression is being retaliated from the target, to fit your description?

What is the aggression in sitting in a coffee shop?

Whose land does the coffee shop sit on?

Let's say all according to YOUR political narrative,
can you explain how this changes the effectiveness of suicide bombing as a 'self-defense' tactic?

Or maybe the effectiveness of any other Arab tactics.
Explain me, just in your view.

In your view, what would be acceptable self defence methods?

See my opening post.

A tactic capable of overwhelming the adversary
as to cease the confrontation is effective self defense.

A suicide bomber who intentionally targets non-combatants,
by definition cannot be categorized as a 'self-defense' method.

It is neither an effective attack for it only strengthens the moral of the adversary,
nor in any way a self-defense method for it increases the casualties on his/her side.

Suicide bombing in a restaurant is just murder for murder sake,
a targeted assassination otoh, both fits the category of self-defense and highly effective.

 

[rylah]

So P F Tinmore what is you answer to the 'Basic Moral Question' in my opening post?

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[rylah]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.

 

[harmonica]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

....you mean Israel's defense tactics...every country has a right to self defense

 

[rylah]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.

But you didn't differentiate whether anyone in the coffee shop attacked the suicide bomber,
their mere presence was enough a justification for you.

So why do you treat this one differently?

As for your appeal to the 10 Commandments, the irony of which you definitely don't see,
even if we assume your accusations had any basis in reality,
then you must also know that:

- stealing from a thief (Arabs) is exempted from punishment
- one who raises to kill you (Arabs), kill him first
- lying is permissible for peace (Aharon A"H)

As for the aggression - no Israeli ever shot a bullet before the Arab pogroms.

All these fit your logic of a justifiable attack.

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?
Is it less or more effective self-defense than suicide bombing?

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.

List of towns and villages depopulated during the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[P F Tinmore]

See 'Basic Moral Question' in the opening post.
RE: The NEWER Official Discussion Thread for the creation of Israel, the UN and the British Mandate
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

One of the Most Celebrated Heroes of the Hostile Arab Palestinian (HoAP) is Dalal al-Maghribi.

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.

Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.

Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.

What attacks?

Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?

You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.

But you didn't differentiate whether anyone in the coffee shop attacked the suicide bomber,
their mere presence was enough a justification for you.

So why do you treat this one differently?

As for your appeal to the 10 Commandments, the irony of which you definitely don't see,
even if we assume your accusations had any basis in reality,
then you must also know that:

- stealing from a thief (Arabs) is exempted from punishment
- one who raises to kill you (Arabs), kill him first
- lying is permissible for peace (Aharon A"H)

As for the aggression - no Israeli ever shot a bullet before the Arab pogroms.

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?
Is it less or more effective self-defense than suicide bombing?

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?

Peaceful, unarmed farmers are your enemy.

Please explain.

 

[P F Tinmore]

So you are fine with blowing up the wife and kids.

I think we have different standards of morality.

(COMMENT)

Yes, our standards of morality are different.
View attachment 381981

Most Respectfully,
R

There are so few attacks by Palestinians that Israel has to pimp them for decades.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, there are extensive lists of attacks by Islamic terrorist Pals.
[/QUOTE]
Piddly compared to Israel's attacks.
[/QUOTE]
What attacks?
[/QUOTE]
Najd (Arabic: نجد‎) was a Palestinian Arab village, located 14 kilometers (8.7 mi) northeast of Gaza City.

Najd was incorporated into the Ottoman Empire in 1517 with the rest of Palestine, and in the 1596 tax registers, the village, called Najd al-Garbi, was located in the nahiya (subdistrict) of Gaza under the liwa' (district) of Gaza. It had a population of 39 Muslim household; an estimated 215 persons.

As the population grew during the Mandate period, the village expanded northwestward. The village population was Muslim, and the children attended school in Simsim, 2 kilometers (1.2 mi) to the northeast. The villagers worked primarily in agriculture and animal husbandry. Fields of grain and fruit trees surrounded Najd on all sides. The fruit trees were concentrated to the north and northeastern sides, where irrigation water was available from wells.[16]

According to Benny Morris, the villagers of Najd were expelled by soldiers from the Negev Brigade on 12–13 May, during the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.[7]

Following the war the area was incorporated into the State of Israel and the city of Sderot was founded in 1951 on village land, a few miles to the south of the village site,[16] while Or HaNer was founded in 1957 also on village land, to the northeast.[16]

Najd, Gaza - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

[/QUOTE]

Do you realize Najd was a colony named after a region in central Arabia?

According to your logic violence against foreigners is justifiable.

So what is the problem with this tactic?
[/QUOTE]
You are a hoot.

You ask about morality. There are three things that I look at in the Ten Commandments: Stealing, Killing, and Lying.

These are the three pillars of Israel's founding and existence.

The Palestinians have been fighting this aggression for over a hundred years. Their methods are determined by their limited resources.

As for Najd, the village predates the Ottoman empire. For how long, I don't think anybody knows. There is no record of them attacking or replacing anyone. Just some peaceful farmers trying to make a living. There is no reason to attack and expel them.

They are now refugees in Gaza shooting rockets into their home town.
[/QUOTE]

But you didn't differentiate whether anyone in the coffee shop attacked the suicide bomber,
their mere presence was enough a justification for you.

So why do you treat this one differently?

As for your appeal to the 10 Commandments, the irony of which you definitely don't see,
even if we assume your accusations had any basis in reality,
then you must also know that:

- stealing from a thief (Arabs) is exempted from punishment
- one who raises to kill you (Arabs), kill him first
- lying is permissible for peace (Aharon A"H)

As for the aggression - no Israeli ever shot a bullet before the Arab pogroms.

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?
Is it less or more effective self-defense than suicide bombing?
[/QUOTE]

So tell me, what is immoral about expelling your enemy?

Peaceful, unarmed farmers are your enemy.

Please explain.
[/QUOTE]

Let's assume they were indeed 'peaceful, unarmed farmers'.

Haven't you already justified killing them with your 'suicide-bomber' logic?
[/QUOTE]
Where do you get this shit?