Israel & Palestine & The Bible

[JStone]

G-d is the creator and destroyer of nations JStone. That is why G-d knows the end.

I have no fear because I have faith in the end.

You are full of fear imo.

Where in the Hebrew Bible did God make Palestinians a nation? Nowhere

Where in the Christian Bible did God make Palestinians a nation? Nowhere

Where in the Quran did allah make Palestinians a nation? Nowhere

 

[Ropey]

^^ See Above...

Good night.

 

[JStone]

^^ See Above...

Good night.

You lost the debate, as usual, schmeckle. Buh bye

 

[theliq]

Stoney,GOD did NOT write any Bibles,that was MAN(Note NO Women)and often centuries after the event.
I've clearly explained the emergence of the Palestinians as you full well know,in past posts.

The question has no bearing. That's why it's so pitiful JStone. Your questions don't matter at all to the events happening in the present.

You are lost in a fantasy world of protecting something that is non-existent.

Edit:

That was then, this is now. Buy the t-shirt and take a bus home... (imho)

So, allah never made Palestinians a nation in the quran, after all.

Nor, did God make Palestinians a nation in the Hebrew Bible nor Christian Bible.

 

[JStone]

Stoney,GOD did NOT write any Bibles,that was MAN(Note NO Women)and often centuries after the event.

Jews recorded the history of ancient Near East civilizations in the Hebrew Bible. Palestinians did not exist.

Deal with it, freak

 

[theliq]

O Stoney,I really think you need me,Firstly of course there is a Palestinian NATION,I'll explain for you....NATION...by definition "a community of people who share common language,culture,ethnicity,desent and/or history".......most NATIONS do not have physical BORDERS,which is where I think you are getting CONFUSED.

By YOUR analogy for example.....you would deny the existance of the Cherokee Nation of North America,the Kurdish Nation who live within the areas of Iraq,Iran,Syria and Turkey, the Australian Aboriginal Nation,the Fasi who are in Iran,the Myan of Central America,and so on.

You must elucidate properly what you actually mean,Stoney,as you merely create more confusion and inaccurcy...I told you you needed me,so I here to help.

I'm theliq helping Americans understand the NATIONS WORLDWIDE

Hate to say it Stoney but even when you are given facts on this subject by others and myself,you merely close your ears and your brain shuts down,the trouble with you is that you are more Jewish than the Jews themselves apart from those mongrel illegal settlers normally Jewish/Americans or is that American/Jews.

Stoney I know you are addicted to your contraditory sources of information but when more worldly and informative folk explain reality to you,YOU should heed their advice......myopia is a medical condition of which I think you suffer.

I would be interested to know if you are Christian,Jew or closet Muslim because your flawed intensity on this subject is much to be admired on one hand but is delusional on the other.

I have tried to understand you as I have said before but your contineum on this flawed subject makes me worry about your mental state because its so excessive,to the point that you start to be abusive to others.

Best Regards theliq Ever living,ever faithful for the truth,ever sure.If you had even a simple grasp of history and the different peoples in the middle east,past and present you would expand your mind......its not all Jewish,Jewish,Jewish.

Had you not posted that highlighted diatribe, it would have been a pretty valid response from you and I've read you often in the past.

imo. First, you don't know if JStone is Jewish.

He had no answer to my simple question. So I wonder.

Then if you wish to cast aspersions on the settlers then you may wish to search out where the forty or so thousand Shia who are now Palestinians came from and why they maintain such a strict tribe in isolation from their Palestinian brethren.

It's good to get a rounded view for discussion, but you are open to discussion. I'm against what is against discussion. That's more important than thousands of years ago.

Where, again, did allah make Palestinians a nation in the quran?

 

[JStone]

O Stoney,I really think you need me,Firstly of course there is a Palestinian NATION,I'll explain for you....NATION...by definition "a community of people who share common language,culture,ethnicity,desent and/or history".......most NATIONS do not have physical BORDERS,which is where I think you are getting CONFUSED.

The Bible recorded the history of ancient Near East civilizations. Palestinians were non-existent.

Prominent Arab historians admit Palestinians are a modern invention.

Rashid Khalidi, professor of Middle East history and director of the Center for International Studies at the University of Chicago and advisor to various Arab groups...

There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.

 

[JStone]

O Stoney,I really think you need me,Firstly of course there is a Palestinian NATION,I'll explain for you....NATION...by definition "a community of people who share common language,culture,ethnicity,desent and/or history".......most NATIONS do not have physical BORDERS,which is where I think you are getting CONFUSED.

Palestinians are part of the Arab nation, dummy.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

We, the Palestinian Arab people...

Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity

The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question
Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

 

[theliq]

DUMMY HEY,Well your latest diatribe needs NO answer because you are WRONG AGAIN Stoney,Your comprehension of the written truth is weak to say the least.Bloody hell,still spewing all that 1964 nonsense,come off it,what are YOU one of those Stupid Revisionists or what.

Stoney,I don't like you to persist in you ingnorance...it shows you up.

Theliq,helping the less fortunate to improve,fcuk what a GREAT GUY I AM.

O Stoney,I really think you need me,Firstly of course there is a Palestinian NATION,I'll explain for you....NATION...by definition "a community of people who share common language,culture,ethnicity,desent and/or history".......most NATIONS do not have physical BORDERS,which is where I think you are getting CONFUSED.

Palestinians are part of the Arab nation, dummy.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

We, the Palestinian Arab people...

Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity

The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question
Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

 

[JStone]

DUMMY HEY,Well your latest diatribe needs NO answer because you are WRONG AGAIN Stoney,Your comprehension of the written truth is weak to say the least.Bloody hell,still spewing all that 1964 nonsense,come off it,what are YOU one of those Stupid Revisionists or what.

Stoney,I don't like you to persist in you ingnorance...it shows you up.

Theliq,helping the less fortunate to improve,fcuk what a GREAT GUY I AM.

O Stoney,I really think you need me,Firstly of course there is a Palestinian NATION,I'll explain for you....NATION...by definition "a community of people who share common language,culture,ethnicity,desent and/or history".......most NATIONS do not have physical BORDERS,which is where I think you are getting CONFUSED.

Palestinians are part of the Arab nation, dummy.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

We, the Palestinian Arab people...

Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity

The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question
Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

The Fakestinians explicitly state they are Arabs, dummy. There is no Palestinian nation. Prior to Israeli statehood, Jews were called Palestinians under the British Mandate.

You lost, as usual. Now, walk away.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

We, the Palestinian Arab people...

Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity

The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

 

[theliq]

sorry for you Stoney WITH 5 MINUTES TO PLAY IT'S THELIQ 8v0 STONEY,still next time you have time to improve,but keep pumping>

What a Great Guy I am>>>>>>>>I was born a Winner>>>>>>>You make it so hard for me to Humble,so as always I tell it like it is.THELIQ

DUMMY HEY,Well your latest diatribe needs NO answer because you are WRONG AGAIN Stoney,Your comprehension of the written truth is weak to say the least.Bloody hell,still spewing all that 1964 nonsense,come off it,what are YOU one of those Stupid Revisionists or what.

Stoney,I don't like you to persist in you ingnorance...it shows you up.

Theliq,helping the less fortunate to improve,fcuk what a GREAT GUY I AM.

Palestinians are part of the Arab nation, dummy.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

The Fakestinians explicitly state they are Arabs, dummy. There is no Palestinian nation. Prior to Israeli statehood, Jews were called Palestinians under the British Mandate.

You lost, as usual. Now, walk away.

Palestine National Charter of 1964

We, the Palestinian Arab people...

Bringing up Palestinian youth in an Arab and nationalist manner is a fundamental national duty

The Palestinian people firmly believe in Arab unity

The destiny of the Arab Nation and even the essence of Arab existence are firmly tied to the destiny of the Palestine question

Permanent Observer Mission of Palestine to the United Nations - Palestine National Charter of 1964

 

[JStone]

Jumble up the word "Palestinians" you get three other words:

Satan
Spin
Lie

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ca48ocpFBiE&NR=1]What the Palestinians do not want Jews to know - YouTube[/ame]

 

[theliq]

Well I JUMBLED UP your name AND I KEEP GETTING THE SAME ANSWER..........shit,Shit,SHit,SHIt,SHIT,NEVER CHANGES.

But the games over for you Stoney,THE FINAL WHISTLE HAS BEEN BLOW.....THELIQ 9v0 STONEY.

I AM A WINNER of courseALWAYS..THELIQ

Jumble up the word "Palestinians" you get three other words:

Satan
Spin
Lie

What the Palestinians do not want Jews to know - YouTube

 

[JStone]

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJjm5K07V0]Who are the Palestinians? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[theliq]

GOD FORBID Stoney,you drive me CRAZY,I can never be too hard on you because of your FAITH...but blind faith STONEY ?????????????BAD,BAD Stoney the

Guy Milliere, Eminent Professor of History and Political Science, Sorbonne, Paris

No one had heard of a Palestinian people before the mid-1960s. They did not exist. Israel under the British Mandate until Israel' s Independence in 1948 was called Palestine. All Jews who were born there until i948 had the word « Palestine » stamped on their passports. The current Palestinians are those Arabs who, for a variety of reasons, decided to leave the land during the 1947 War of Independence, when five countries – Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq – attacked the 600,000 people in the fledgling state of Israel the day after its birth, hoping to kill it in the crib.
The War Against Israel Goes On- by Guy Millière | DRZZ.fr

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJjm5K07V0]Who are the Palestinians? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[alexa]

JStone,

I don't know if you have replied to Ropey - are you a Jew or possibly a Christian Zionist believing the bible is literal and waiting to get your hands on the place yourself?

It is inconsequential to the situation whether there are people called Palestinians in any holy book. There are however people who have descendants going back possibly 4,000 years or more who have through different times been called different people and practised different religions.

Behind the conflict, there is a clash of competing claims to presence in the land by two groups of people. The Jewish claim is largely based on old religious connections and narratives derived from the Hebrew Bible (the Old Testament).The Palestinian claim to the land is based on periods of continuous habitation and contact with the land. It includes the argument that all religious communities coexisted peacefully before the introduction of the counterclaim by a Zionist ideology imported by Europeans. Usually, the Palestinian presence is connected (by most Jews and even by many Palestinians) to the Muslim conquest in the 7th century that brought “Arabs” to Palestine. Disagreement between the two sides about ancient history is a central part of the present conflict and its current images.

Since “Canaan” (in Western usage) represents an idealized construct identical to “promised land,” it is central to the biblical claim of Zionist settlement in Palestine — as it was a justifying strategy in colonizing paradigm used by settlers in places like America and South Africa. European "pilgrims" to North America during the 17th century used the construct "Canaan" in biblical imagery about "chosen people" and "New Israel" to justify their conquest and their eradication of the native population and, later, the enslavement of black people (for a discussion, see Prior).

However, though condemned as idolatrous and pagan, Cana'anite religion has been shown to underlie the origins of monotheism. Forgotten and devalued, the Cana'anite past is still visibly buried in both present Palestinian daily life and customs and the belief system known today as monotheism (Judaism, Christianity, Islam). It is important to bring this latent heritage into surface awareness, to correct perception of past and present, and to complement religious perspectives, to influence positively consciousness and identity construction among Israelis and Palestinians.

Palestine-Israel Journal: <b>The Cana’anite Factor: (Un) Defining Religious Identities in Palestine and Israel</b>

The idea of Nation State and nationalism which you are wanting to see them have a history of however, came from thoughts in Europe in the 18th Century and led to some of the grossest atrocities every committed.

 

[Iridescence]

G-d is the creator of Nations. If a Palestine is created, then it is with the will of G-d. If it isn't then it is not with the will of G-d.

So, let's let the future dictate this one. Not the past....

But, all too often it seems 'we' are 'stuck' within the cycles of revolving doors instead of being wise enough, crafty enough to step through the opening given to go in different directions. It is very much like breaking the patterns of the human psyche.

 

[Iridescence]

Development of Palestinian Nationalism Post-WWI

The economic and demographic impact of World War I was devastating on Palestinians. The political and psychological damage was also severe. The Ottoman Empire collapsed, so everyone previously part of the empire lost Ottomanism as a source of identity. This was replaced by national identities – present before 1914 but strengthened by President Wilson's program for national self-determination (remember the Wilsonian Principle). As we saw, World War I ended with an almost-total political loss for Arabs throughout the region. The promises of the McMahon-Hussein correspondence never materialized; Arab sovereignty was denied.



At the early stages, nationalism for Palestinians meant patriotism for "Greater Syria," an entity created under the British Mandate government that encompassed Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Jordan. While the British viewed Greater Syria as little more than a bureaucratic entity, many Arab residents viewed it as a beacon of Arab independence and unity.
They believed that Greater Syria would one day become an independent Arab nation. Nationalism for Greater Syria overlapped with and reinforced the newly-emerging Arab nationalism.



Faisal bin Al Hussein (son of Sharif Hussein) the newly-elected king of Syria, courted Palestinian support through anti-Zionist resolutions. Palestinians got behind Greater Syria, viewing it as the best option for overcoming Zionism and British rule. However, King Faisal betrayed the Palestinians through agreements with the Zionist leadership, dividing the movement. Then in 1920, the San Remo conference gave France the mandate for Syria. The French invaded, took over Syria, divided it up, exiled Faisal, and ended all aspirations for Greater Syria as an independent Arab nation. Syrian identity quickly faded for Palestinians.



From 1917 to 1920, Palestinians repeatedly confronted fundamental identity questions. The British gave Faisal Iraq, and his brother Abdullah was given the new Transjordan – made up of land previously part of Palestine. These new boundaries drawn around Iraq, Syria, and Transjordan were bad for Palestinian political aspirations. Once-contiguous areas were now divided up – and so was their power. As residents of the other territories started focusing on their own nationalist goals (and stopped voicing a strong opposition of Zionism), Palestinians turned their attention to Palestinian independence. By the 1920s, a uniquely Palestinian nationalism began to emerge.



At the Third Arab Congress in 1920, the Palestinians presented their platform for independence: "Public recognition of Palestine, as it would be constituted by the mandate, as a distinct political entity for the people living there, a total rejection of any political or moral right of the Jews over Palestine, a declaration of unity among the Palestinian Arabs to supersede any other loyalties, such as those to religion, region, and clan, a call to the new administration to halt any transfers of Arab or state lands to Jewish control, the demand to close Palestine to further Jewish immigration, a call to recognize the Arab Executive Committee as the legitimate representative of the population before the British authorities."



By 1921, Palestinian nationalism, separate from Syrian and Arab nationalism, was evident in the press. This Palestinian identity co-existed and sometimes conflicted with identification of clans, religious groups, city and town loyalties, and urban/rural divides. Conflicts arose, and leaders proved unable to move past them or move their populations past them in order to build a powerful or unified national front. But a clear Palestinian nationalism had developed.



Source: Development of Palestinian Nationalism Post-WWI | What Happened Before That? Zionist and Palestinian Nationalist Histories

 

[JStone]

Development of Palestinian Nationalism Post-WWI

The economic and demographic impact of World War I was devastating on Palestinians. The political and psychological damage was also severe. The Ottoman Empire collapsed, so everyone previously part of the empire lost Ottomanism as a source of identity. This was replaced by national identities &#8211; present before 1914 but strengthened by President Wilson's program for national self-determination (remember the Wilsonian Principle). As we saw, World War I ended with an almost-total political loss for Arabs throughout the region. The promises of the McMahon-Hussein correspondence never materialized; Arab sovereignty was denied.



At the early stages, nationalism for Palestinians meant patriotism for "Greater Syria," an entity created under the British Mandate government that encompassed Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Jordan. While the British viewed Greater Syria as little more than a bureaucratic entity, many Arab residents viewed it as a beacon of Arab independence and unity.
They believed that Greater Syria would one day become an independent Arab nation. Nationalism for Greater Syria overlapped with and reinforced the newly-emerging Arab nationalism.



Faisal bin Al Hussein (son of Sharif Hussein) the newly-elected king of Syria, courted Palestinian support through anti-Zionist resolutions. Palestinians got behind Greater Syria, viewing it as the best option for overcoming Zionism and British rule. However, King Faisal betrayed the Palestinians through agreements with the Zionist leadership, dividing the movement. Then in 1920, the San Remo conference gave France the mandate for Syria. The French invaded, took over Syria, divided it up, exiled Faisal, and ended all aspirations for Greater Syria as an independent Arab nation. Syrian identity quickly faded for Palestinians.



From 1917 to 1920, Palestinians repeatedly confronted fundamental identity questions. The British gave Faisal Iraq, and his brother Abdullah was given the new Transjordan &#8211; made up of land previously part of Palestine. These new boundaries drawn around Iraq, Syria, and Transjordan were bad for Palestinian political aspirations. Once-contiguous areas were now divided up &#8211; and so was their power. As residents of the other territories started focusing on their own nationalist goals (and stopped voicing a strong opposition of Zionism), Palestinians turned their attention to Palestinian independence. By the 1920s, a uniquely Palestinian nationalism began to emerge.



At the Third Arab Congress in 1920, the Palestinians presented their platform for independence: "Public recognition of Palestine, as it would be constituted by the mandate, as a distinct political entity for the people living there, a total rejection of any political or moral right of the Jews over Palestine, a declaration of unity among the Palestinian Arabs to supersede any other loyalties, such as those to religion, region, and clan, a call to the new administration to halt any transfers of Arab or state lands to Jewish control, the demand to close Palestine to further Jewish immigration, a call to recognize the Arab Executive Committee as the legitimate representative of the population before the British authorities."



By 1921, Palestinian nationalism, separate from Syrian and Arab nationalism, was evident in the press. This Palestinian identity co-existed and sometimes conflicted with identification of clans, religious groups, city and town loyalties, and urban/rural divides. Conflicts arose, and leaders proved unable to move past them or move their populations past them in order to build a powerful or unified national front. But a clear Palestinian nationalism had developed.



Source: Development of Palestinian Nationalism Post-WWI | What Happened Before That? Zionist and Palestinian Nationalist Histories

BOGUS website, stooge.

Eminent Historian Bernard Lewis...

The adjective Palestinian is comparatively new. This, I need hardly remind you, is a region of ancient civilization and of deep-rooted and often complex identitites. But, Palestine was not one of them. People might identify themselves for various purposes, by religion, by descent, or by allegiance to a particular state or ruler, or, sometimes, locality. But, when they did it locally it was generally either the city and the immediate district or the larger province, so they would have been Jerusalemites or Jaffaites or Syrians, identifying province of Syria

The constitution or the formation of a political entity called Palestine which eventually gave rise to a nationality called Palestinian were lasting innovations of the British Mandate [1948]

American Library Association

For more than four decades, Bernard Lewis has been one of the most respected scholars and prolific writers on the history and politics of the Middle East. In this compilation of more than 50 journal articles and essays, he displays the full range of his eloquence, knowledge, and insight regarding this pivotal and volatile region."
Oxford University Press: Faith and Power: Bernard Lewis

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...

On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."

King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history.

Yale University Press

Sir Martin Gilbert is the author of more than eighty books, including the six-volume authorized biography of Winston Churchill, the twin histories First World War and Second World War, Israel: A History, The Holocaust, A History of the Twentieth Century in three volumes, and nine pioneering historical atlases, including Atlas of Jewish History and Atlas of the Arab-Israeli Conflict. In 1995, he was knighted for services to British history and international relations, and in 2009 he was appointed to the British Government&#8217;s Iraq War Inquiry. He lives in London.

http://yalepress.yale.edu/yupbooks/book.asp?isbn=9780300167153

 

[Iridescence]

Yes... Well, perhaps it is best that you are there and I am here, cause I'd likely whack your bogus ass.