Islamization of Paris

[xotoxi]

xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks. It is illegal in France to pray outside. It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week. It is bullshit. Stop apologizing.

I'm not apologizing.

If it is illegal, why aren't the French police arresting people?

Because they look the other way. I could give you a source that says as much, but it might not fit your "unbiased" standard. I believe it. Police look the other way right here in the U.S. as well.

Okay. That's too bad that they look the other way. They shouldn't do that.

And I don't demand that you provide support...because you always do...and you provide credible sources.

 

[Madeline]

Do you speak French? Because there are perfectly reasonable sources if you do. But it is not an international story.

RetiredGySgt claims this is also happening in Canada. Chanel claims you yourself have seen it in the UK. So? Where are the Telegraph stories about it, CG?

I did not say this exact thing was happening. I said Islam is working to take over in those countries. In Canada they enacted Sharia law, as well as in Great Britain. In Sweden in Stockholm parts of the city are so dangerous non Muslims can not go there and expect to get out alive. The cops don't even go there anymore.

WTF did Canada "enact Sharia law"? BTW, WTF is "Sharia law"?

 

[chanel]

Here's my confusion. Even if we accept that they are peacefully protesting the "lack of mosques" who do they want to build them? The government? In the words of the great Judge Judy "If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true"

Maybe if they all worked during those 2 1/2 hrs a day, they could raise the money themselves. Ya think?

 

[Madeline]

xoxtoxi - It is illegal to block the sidewalks. It is illegal in France to pray outside. It is intimidating to some, and annoying to others to have to cross the street for 2 1/2 hours every week. It is bullshit. Stop apologizing.

I'm not apologizing.

If it is illegal, why aren't the French police arresting people?

Because they look the other way. I could give you a source that says as much, but it might not fit your "unbiased" standard. I believe it. Police look the other way right here in the U.S. as well.

Whoa, miss. What are you claiming here? That there are American neighborhoods the cops are afraid to enter? Or that there are some that are Muslim and that is why the cops are afraid?

I live in Cleveland, chanel. Yes, there are sectors that don't get patrolled well and yes, there are reasonable fears among some cops here. But there is no part of this city "the cops are afraid to enter".

 

[xotoxi]

Here's my confusion. Even if we accept that they are peacefully protesting the "lack of mosques" who do they want to build them? The government? In the words of the great Judge Judy "If it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true"

Maybe if they all worked during those 2 1/2 hrs a day, they could raise the money themselves. Ya think?

I know of this guy in New York that really, really wants to build a muslim community center...

 

[SmarterThanHick]

I don't think recognizing a threat is the same as being scared, unless you feel compelled to cave to that threat. Again, that sounds like something you might like to do.

The "threat"? What threat is that? I look outside my door and I see no threat. Do you? But hey, I'm not just worried about what's in my backyard, let's ask around to see if anyone else in this country sees the threat of prayer in their streets. Anyone else see this threat when they look outside?

Didn't think so.

Peaceful? Forcing non Muslims to stay out of their homes, burning cars, erecting blockades, blocking whole neighborhoods off from the rest of the city? That is your idea of peaceful? Demanding Sharia law that does things like stone adulterers, stone people who have sex outside wedlock? This is YOUR idea of peaceful?

This is not what the article was discussing. Nice misdirection though.

We SHOULD refuse immigration of any more Muslims, PERIOD. We should remove from the list of religions Islam. It advocates murder, it advocates oppression, it advocates taking over the Government.

And you advocate ignorance, racism, and the inability to understand a culture based on a small percentage of fanatics.

You flippant prideful American who has no problem turning his back on the founding principles of this country at the first opportune moment. How pitiful. Meanwhile, we have a rather good justice system that clearly defines legal and illegal actions, and can easily act against criminals regardless of numbers. You don't want the great laws of this nation to apply to everyone equally, you want some special privileges. Until you're willing to make the same changes regarding your religion, you're in no place to point fingers or change laws for other religions, my dear hick.

 

[chanel]

But the question is "With whose money?". Oops - was that Islamophobic?

And Maddie - lucky you. There are many neighborhoods in NJ and surrounding areas that the cops are afraid to go into. And there are simply things they choose to ignore like crack houses and prostitution. Maybe it's money and lack of resources. That could easily be the case in Paris, but I think it's something a little darker. Like this perhaps:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecEeJ3Jke8c&feature=related]YouTube - Europe under fire[/ame]

 

[SmarterThanHick]

It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.

And that's fine. Are you worried American law enforcement can't deal with basic rights violations so much that we need to attack a religious source? Because I'm rather confidence in our officers, soldiers, and judges.

So arresting 2 thousand Muslims for invading a neighborhood and denying its residents their rights fixes what? How about you admit it is the RELIGION that is the problem.

2000 is 0.0001% of all Muslims, my racist friend. But sure, let's punish the whole classroom, no.... the entire school, because two students threw spitballs.

Perhaps the most interesting and ironic thing about your post, is that you are no better than the <0.0001% of Muslims you hate. You respond to the idea that someone wants other religions eradicated by wanting to eradicate THEIR religion. You are no better than the ones you hate. I wonder if your white robes and pointed hood still fit you after all these years.

 

[Madeline]

But the question is "With whose money?". Oops - was that Islamophobic?

And Maddie - lucky you. There are many neighborhoods in NJ and surrounding areas that the cops are afraid to go into. And there are simply things they choose to ignore like crack houses and prostitution. Maybe it's money and lack of resources. That could easily be the case in Paris, but I think it's something a little darker. Like this perhaps:

YouTube - Europe under fire

I can believe there are NJ crackhouses the cops know about and don't hassle. I have no doubt there are Cleveland ones, too. I don't think they are Muslim operations, or that entire neighborhoods in NJ have been abandoned by the cops.

I dunno why French cops won't arrest loiterers or rioters or WTF it is these people are doing that is illegal there. It isn't a problem I foresee having here.

 

[Skull Pilot]

It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.

And that's fine. Are you worried American law enforcement can't deal with basic rights violations so much that we need to attack a religious source? Because I'm rather confidence in our officers, soldiers, and judges.

I have no faith that our government will protect our rights when Muslims need to be confronted.

 

[chanel]

No - I'm not talking about Muslim drug dealers and whores. I meant that cops look the other way in many ghettos. Ghettos in France seem to be predominantly Muslim.

What is different here in the US is assimilation. In Canada and Europe they push "multi-culturalism" which breeds segregation and distrust. We need to learn from their mistakes, but it seems many here want to repeat them.

 

[California Girl]

Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.

I guess besides never going to work he never watches the news either.

Do you want me to just take your word for it?

If the stories are so plentiful in the news, then it should be painfully easy to back up your statements.

It's not my job to find support for your comments.

Revealed: UK&rsquo;s first official sharia courts -Times Online

From the article: ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network&#8217;s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

 

[Madeline]

Alright, I have read the whole article. The parties have to agree to use a sharia court, and the rulings are enforcable as a form of binding arbitration. So far, no biggie. Any two people in a dispute could agree to almost any adult as an arbitrator and the resulting ruling would be binding in the US (presumably in the UK too).

What knocked me for a loop was the type of cases they are handling. How can any alternative dispute resolution process handle a criminal matter? How can matters of inheritance be decided outside a Probate Court? (In the US, these courts have exclusive jurisdiction in most/all states; the parties could resolve a will contest by agreement, but they could not litigate one elsewhere.)

And divorces? What if there are children? How do UK courts countenance giving up jurisdiction over minors in a divorce?

The article compares these courts to what I assume are Rabbincal Courts. I don't know all that much about Jewish law or what sorts of things they handle. There are Canonical Law courts in the RCC as well, but I have never heard of anyone using them (apart from clergy) for anything other than an annulment...a purely RCC matter anyway.

It's hard to believe no one in the UK will step up and call a halt to this craziness.

 

[hipeter924]

Xotoxi is ACTUALLY claiming that with out a story he does not believe that Canada has authorized Sharia law in some cases as well as England.

I guess besides never going to work he never watches the news either.

Do you want me to just take your word for it?

If the stories are so plentiful in the news, then it should be painfully easy to back up your statements.

It's not my job to find support for your comments.

Revealed: UK&rsquo;s first official sharia courts -Times Online

From the article: ISLAMIC law has been officially adopted in Britain, with sharia courts given powers to rule on Muslim civil cases.

The government has quietly sanctioned the powers for sharia judges to rule on cases ranging from divorce and financial disputes to those involving domestic violence.

Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network&#8217;s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Don't deny the existence of the British Caliphate, we can't have double standards here. We must recognize the British Caliphate immediately, just as we recognized Israel and Kosovo. After Blair the UK aren't reliable allies anymore (they have all their plans out to leave Iraq and Afghanistan), and if anything Labour is filled with Islamic radicals and antisemitic filth like George Galloway, virtually all its EU seats are taken by UK Fascists in the British National Party, and its socialist economy has been failing ever since ww1.

 

[Madeline]

WTF is a Caliphate?

 

[hipeter924]

WTF is a Caliphate?

Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term caliphate (from the Arabic &#1582;&#1604;&#1575;&#1601;&#1577; or khil&#257;fa) refers to the first system of governance established in Islam. The most common translation for the word which appears in the Quran is vicegerency (or caretaker). It is a constitutional republic, which means that the rulers are bound by a set of laws which they cannot break at a whim, and the people have the right to appoint their leader through their local leaders and should the leaders divert from their obligations as vicegerents, the people have the right to remove them.
It was initially led by Prophet Muhammad's companions as a continuation of the political authority the Prophet established, known in Arabic as Khulufaa'u Rashidin or English 'Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate)'. It represented the political and theological unity of the Muslim Ummah, and was the world's first major welfare state.[1][2] A "caliphate" is also a state which implements such a government.
Sunni Islam dictates that the head of state, the caliph, should be selected by Shura - elected by Muslims or their representatives.[3] Followers of Shia Islam believe the caliph should be an imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt. After the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first dynasty was the Umayyad. This was followed by the Abbasid, the Fatimid, and finally the Ottoman Dynasty.
The caliphate was "the core political concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries."[4]

 

[AllieBaba]

I realize there is a culture clash going on in Europe, CG. But what exactly is it that folks here who are anxious about Muslims should do? Should we alter our immigration law, and stop permitting Muslims to move here? Should we amend the First Amendment, and add "except for Muslims"?

How do we "prevent it from happening here" without doing to ourselves the very thing we fear most -- losing our cultural identity as a free people?

You're ignoring, quite conveniently I might add, that people blocking streets and buildings and hiring private security guards to intimidate people with an absolute right to enter or leave their homes or do business are not merely practicing their religion but in fact are violating the rights of other citizens.

It's not the practice of religion that is the problem, it's the deliberate violation of the rights of others that is the problem.

So why aren't the French cops arresting people, if they are breaking the law?

Because when they fuck with the Muslims, they BURN things.

"Policing: A lot of these "ghetto" suburbs lack security and policing. Gangs, running the suburbs, have slowly pushed out police presence. In Seine-Saint-Denis, security personnel have fallen from 468 in 2000 to 205 now, according to Le Monde."

Paris Riots in Perspective - ABC News

"In escalating unrest, shots were fired at police and firefighters, while gangs besieged a police station, set fire to a car showroom and threw petrol bombs.

At least 15 people were arrested and nine injured across north-east Paris."

"Dalil Boubakeur, the head of the Paris mosque and the president of the French Council for the Muslim Religion, said living conditions for Muslim immigrants in the suburbs were unacceptable.

They "must be given the conditions to live with dignity as human beings", not in "disgraceful squats".

BBC NEWS | Europe | Fresh violence hits Paris suburbs

 

[Madeline]

Surely Europeans have some experience with rioters other than Muslims, Allie. We certainly do here in the US. I don't see police abandoning the duty to enforce the law as a solution.

 

[Mr. H.]

 

[Madeline]

WTF is a Caliphate?

Caliphate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term caliphate (from the Arabic &#1582;&#1604;&#1575;&#1601;&#1577; or khil&#257;fa) refers to the first system of governance established in Islam. The most common translation for the word which appears in the Quran is vicegerency (or caretaker). It is a constitutional republic, which means that the rulers are bound by a set of laws which they cannot break at a whim, and the people have the right to appoint their leader through their local leaders and should the leaders divert from their obligations as vicegerents, the people have the right to remove them.
It was initially led by Prophet Muhammad's companions as a continuation of the political authority the Prophet established, known in Arabic as Khulufaa'u Rashidin or English 'Rashidun Caliphate (Rightly Guided Caliphate)'. It represented the political and theological unity of the Muslim Ummah, and was the world's first major welfare state.[1][2] A "caliphate" is also a state which implements such a government.
Sunni Islam dictates that the head of state, the caliph, should be selected by Shura - elected by Muslims or their representatives.[3] Followers of Shia Islam believe the caliph should be an imam descended in a line from the Ahl al-Bayt. After the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first dynasty was the Umayyad. This was followed by the Abbasid, the Fatimid, and finally the Ottoman Dynasty.
The caliphate was "the core political concept of Sunni Islam, by the consensus of the Muslim majority in the early centuries."[4]

Where are you going with this, hipeter? Are you suggesting that 1.5 Billion Muslims believe they have a duty to overthrow the secular government of any country they reside in and replace it with a theocracy?

I'm having trouble swallowing that.