Islamists and "the right to offend"

[Mac1958]

.

The murderers in France sought to issue "consequences" to those who dared to offend them.

Here's an interesting piece on that: The Blame for the Charlie Hebdo Murders - The New Yorker

From the piece:

The killers are soldiers in a war against freedom of thought and speech, against tolerance, pluralism, and the right to offend—against everything decent in a democratic society.

I wonder if anyone on this side of the Atlantic will take note.

Okay, doubtful, but I wonder.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

 

[zeke]

But what the fuck happened to the "good guys with guns will stop the bad guys with guns"?
One of the first shot was the cop protecting the editor.
Proving once again that the element of surprise is the prime determining factor as to what is going to happen when the shooting starts. And it don't matter how many guns you have if you are the one being "surprised".

That being said, I greatly look forward to the French anti terrorist squad finding these guys and killing them.
I bet they even use the element of surprise when it happens.

 

[martybegan]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

So people should be cowed by whoever decides violence is a response to harmless speech?

Joe the Fascist being Joe the Fascist.

 

[martybegan]

But what the fuck happened to the "good guys with guns will stop the bad guys with guns"?
One of the first shot was the cop protecting the editor.
Proving once again that the element of surprise is the prime determining factor as to what is going to happen when the shooting starts. And it don't matter how many guns you have if you are the one being "surprised".

That being said, I greatly look forward to the French anti terrorist squad finding these guys and killing them.
I bet they even use the element of surprise when it happens.

Stay on topic Zeke, who mentioned guns in this thread?

 

[Old Rocks]

The proper response, worldwide, would be for every newspaper in every democratic country to put on their front page for a week the cartoon that these murderers found so objectionable. Not as an insult to Islam, but as a declaration that free speech will not be infringed on in a just society.

 

[gtopa1]

One of course has the right to free speech but if it offends then the offended have the right to let the perps know that they disapprove. I was at a Protest in Trafalgar Square where offended Moslems demonstrated against images that were published which were offensive. I would also have gone to a Demo against offensive material aimed against Christians. People of faith have the right to let those who offend them know that they don't approve. It's called "freedom of speech".

I also look forward to the French cornering and capturing the two killers now at large over the massacre. May they bring justice upon those killers and their deranged enablers!!

Greg

 

[martybegan]

The proper response, worldwide, would be for every newspaper in every democratic country to put on their front page for a week the cartoon that these murderers found so objectionable. Not as an insult to Islam, but as a declaration that free speech will not be infringed on in a just society.

The fact that you qualify with "not as an insult to Islam" is a sign of weakness. The Charlie Hedbo publishers clearly intended to insult Islam, as they also insulted Christianity and Judaism. The statement should be unequivocal, not couched in a "but we didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings" excuse.

 

[gtopa1]

The proper response, worldwide, would be for every newspaper in every democratic country to put on their front page for a week the cartoon that these murderers found so objectionable. Not as an insult to Islam, but as a declaration that free speech will not be infringed on in a just society.

I don't agree. That would be allying oneself with offensive material. I prefer capturing the murderers and dealing justice upon them.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.

Voltaire

 

[Old Rocks]

That is what they meant, that is not what running the cartoon would mean. The situation has taken a dramatic turn since then. This concerns killing people for their exercise of the freedom of speech. Time to let the people that would do such things know that we will not allow it, and will respond together to drive their asses into the ground.

 

[gtopa1]

The proper response, worldwide, would be for every newspaper in every democratic country to put on their front page for a week the cartoon that these murderers found so objectionable. Not as an insult to Islam, but as a declaration that free speech will not be infringed on in a just society.

The fact that you qualify with "not as an insult to Islam" is a sign of weakness. The Charlie Hedbo publishers clearly intended to insult Islam, as they also insulted Christianity and Judaism. The statement should be unequivocal, not couched in a "but we didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings" excuse.

It is an understandable reaction and suggestion, but I don't agree with the insult that it is a sign of "weakness". Of course Charlie intended to insult and I am no apologist for them. I consider the publication a rag. But to murder the staff?? No: totally rejected and the perpetrators must be brought to justice!!

Greg

 

[JoeB131]

So people should be cowed by whoever decides violence is a response to harmless speech?

Joe the Fascist being Joe the Fascist.

People should show good judgement. It's why you don't walk into a Marine bar and say, "The Marines are a bunch of pussies."

 

[gtopa1]

That is what they meant, that is not what running the cartoon would mean. The situation has taken a dramatic turn since then. This concerns killing people for their exercise of the freedom of speech. Time to let the people that would do such things know that we will not allow it, and will respond together to drive their asses into the ground.

I would suggest that all who have posted so far are in agreement.

Greg

 

[kaz]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

South Park showed the reality of the religions so perfectly with the Super Friends going after the head of every major religion, and getting threats from only one... They probably made Jesus look the worst being a porn surfer. And there are the most Christians around. Nothing. You keep excusing Muslim extremism as the same. It's not, not remotely.

 

[gtopa1]

So people should be cowed by whoever decides violence is a response to harmless speech?

Joe the Fascist being Joe the Fascist.

People should show good judgement. It's why you don't walk into a Marine bar and say, "The Marines are a bunch of pussies."

If the Marines resorted to violence on the idiot then frankly they would be just as bad as the Charlie killers, and they are not!! The "(s)he had it coming" argument is the resort of the fool!

Greg

 

[Seawytch]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

South Park showed the reality of the religions so perfectly with the Super Friends going after the head of every major religion, and getting threats from only one... They probably made Jesus look the worst being a porn surfer. And there are the most Christians around. Nothing. You keep excusing Muslim extremism as the same. It's not, not remotely.

And the extremism has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with the culture. Stop attacking the religion for the extremism of the culture. Millions of Muslims live all over the world without resorting to extremism and violence. It's the culture.

 

[gtopa1]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

South Park showed the reality of the religions so perfectly with the Super Friends going after the head of every major religion, and getting threats from only one... They probably made Jesus look the worst being a porn surfer. And there are the most Christians around. Nothing. You keep excusing Muslim extremism as the same. It's not, not remotely.

South Park is a spoof. I have always considered it kinda dumb. I would not be using it as a basis for a social conscience.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

South Park showed the reality of the religions so perfectly with the Super Friends going after the head of every major religion, and getting threats from only one... They probably made Jesus look the worst being a porn surfer. And there are the most Christians around. Nothing. You keep excusing Muslim extremism as the same. It's not, not remotely.

And the extremism has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with the culture. Stop attacking the religion for the extremism of the culture. Millions of Muslims live all over the world without resorting to extremism and violence. It's the culture.

Can you expand on that, please. It is of course the micro-culture of the small group of Islamofascists. I gather that it is what you mean.

Greg

 

[kaz]

Hey, Mac, maybe you can walk into a working class bar, and then talk to the biggest, nastiest looking bloke in there and start making comments about his mother's sexual proclivities. When you get the expected results, you can then explain to him about your "right to offend".

Right after you use a dustpan to collect your teeth off the floor.

These murderers should be hunted down, prosecuted and punished.

But people should also show judgment and good taste in what to publish. They certainly shouldn't come whining to me that "Those people I went out of my way to offend came by and did something nasty to me!"

South Park showed the reality of the religions so perfectly with the Super Friends going after the head of every major religion, and getting threats from only one... They probably made Jesus look the worst being a porn surfer. And there are the most Christians around. Nothing. You keep excusing Muslim extremism as the same. It's not, not remotely.

And the extremism has nothing to do with the religion and everything to do with the culture.

Fail. Extreme Muslims from around the world are committing terrorism. Even ones who lived large chunks of their life or were even born in the west.

Stop attacking the religion for the extremism of the culture. Millions of Muslims live all over the world without resorting to extremism and violence. It's the culture.

strawman

 

[zeke]

Stay on topic Zeke, who mentioned guns in this thread?

Well marty, every time there is a mass killing in this country, gun nutters come out of the wood work to claim that IF only there had been a good guy with a gun, the killing would have been stopped. Right? Surely you have read those posts. Maybe (you) even made a couple of them claiming good guys with guns stop bad guys etc.

But these people in France were already EXPECTING violence for what they were publishing. The editor had his own personal body guard. Didn't stop a thing.

So that's the relevance to what I wrote. Gun nutters are full of shit. Surprise in shooting situations means everything. Good guys with guns don't stop surprise attacks. The ones who might have guns get shot first.

But it has been established for quite some time that these asshole Muslims will shoot whoever they can for insulting Mohammed. That is not news.

And the French will catch them and I hope kill them where they find them. Fuck arresting them. Shoot em where they are found.