CDZ Islamification of The West

[saveliberty]

Because I thought it was relevant.

 

[Coyote]

I fear fascism. It's ugly head is in the OP.

Do you fear theocracy?

Not if its Islamic.

The Left's love-in with Islamism is exceptionally disturbing and pretty insane actually....I often wonder how many Leftists have already converted to Islam, they seem to be promoting Islam at the drop of a hat and the others just follow like sheep, even though others who haven't swallowed the Propaganda know that Islam isn't compatible with Western values.

I'll elaborate about this later.

I don't see anyone "promoting" Islam, and I doubt any Leftists would convert - Islam is a very conservative religion overall. What Leftists promote is equality and religious freedom.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

"Islamification" is a bugaboo of weak minds. It's a boogeyman to stoke jingoistic fears.

Why should anyone be upset that 5,000 Muslims had a march in London?

Could it be because their culture beheads women for being raped? Because they throw gay people off tall buildings? Because they see men raping male children as simple "play"? Because they blow themselves and others up on a regular basis? Because women are forced to cover themselves or face being stoned to death??

They have a right to have their culture in THEIR lands. That's between them and their God.

Our lands....and OUR culture...are ours. They aren't interested in assimilation. They want to change OUR culture to THEIR culture.

And THEIR culture is evil, violent and oppressive. Sorry....it just is. Our culture is simply better than theirs.

Who's culture is that?

Do American Muslims call for beheading raped women? Do Canadian Muslims throw gay people off tall buildings? What are you talking about?

Our culture has it's issues with domestic violence, child abuse and molestation, human trafficking. Where our culture is superior is that it's people (Christians, Muslims, Jews, and more) value a system where human rights and freedoms are protected. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran etc has no such protections.

I think he means Islamic culture.

But there isn't a single Islamic culture - it varies according the the parts of the world their followers live in.

The majority of them are Sunni and that's what the majority follow, however Wahhabism is exerting a greater hold across much of the Islamic world, thanks to The House of Saud, now that's the most extreme version of Islam and it's basically what ISIL/ISIS/Daesh adhere to.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

I fear fascism. It's ugly head is in the OP.

Do you fear theocracy?

Not if its Islamic.

The Left's love-in with Islamism is exceptionally disturbing and pretty insane actually....I often wonder how many Leftists have already converted to Islam, they seem to be promoting Islam at the drop of a hat and the others just follow like sheep, even though others who haven't swallowed the Propaganda know that Islam isn't compatible with Western values.

I'll elaborate about this later.

I don't see anyone "promoting" Islam, and I doubt any Leftists would convert - Islam is a very conservative religion overall. What Leftists promote is equality and religious freedom.

"What Leftists promote is equality and religious freedom."

So explain to me then why nearly all the people and groups who are promoting Islam into The West are Leftists.

We know that Islam isn't big on equality and religious freedom.

 

[Coyote]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

Exactly. The OP argument is the same argument use in the anti-gay movementt. LGBT are a threat to the UK and should not be allowed equal rights.

Absolutely ridiculous comparison, it's not the same "argument", sorry what IS that "argument" exactly?

If you want to discuss Islam's views on LGBT we can....am I allowed to post pictures though of gays being thrown off tall buildings and gays being hanged 20 feet in the air from industrial cranes?

Do you think Islam, being so anti-women's rights is going to be all happy clappy with LGBT people? Do you think Islam has one rule for Middle Eastern nations and a nice happy clappy rule for Western nations?

Yes, it appears that they do. Islam, like Christianity - varies in how it's interpreted and practiced around the world. Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism aren't exactly pro-women's rights either nor are they pro-LGBT (look at many African countries). How culture interacts with religion determines a lot about how people feel about these rights vs. "traditional" cultural norms.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why would any Western nation want to allow itself to be subjected to Islamification?

Perhaps at some point that question will be asked to Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of Lahore....sorry, London.

This is to give an illustration what could happen to say any town or city in the United States, think about how scary this would look to a population of any American town, who's family has lived there for generations, with it's heritage and customs....to slowly and then suddenly be subjected to Islamification.

So this is from January 2015, but they have this Muslim March each year to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad, because they've slowly been able to take gradual control of the below towns.

Here's the news article, 5,000 Muslims.

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

"THOUSANDS of Muslim men marched through the streets of Blackburn and Nelson yesterday, to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet Muhammad.

Prayers, songs and colourful flags were a feature at both events, while women and children handed out cakes to those involved in the processions. Both events picked up more followers as they moved through the streets.

Snip -

Mohammed Sadiq, one of the organisers, said: “It’s a bit like Christians celebrating Christmas, it’s about bringing the community together and hopefully getting young people to engage as well. We had a full programme in the mosque afterwards with international scholars.”

Imam Shahed Tameez said: “We celebrate because, after God, Muhammad is the most important in the Muslim faith. When he came he changed everything through the law of Sharia. He forbade killing and any form of terrorism or oppression, and gave equal rights to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.”

About 5,000 people attended the event in Nelson, which started at the Ghausia Mosque. Several non-Muslims also took part including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson."

Here's the full article:

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

Here's the Cuckservative MP Andrew Stephenson, he's okay with his constituency becoming Islamic it seems:

Andrew Stephenson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why wouldn't he be, they have an Islamic Mayor also, Mayor of Pendle, Councillor Nawaz Ahmed....here they are together, surrounded by....well more Islamic people:

Now here's the video of the January 2015 Muslim March, featuring 5,000 Muslims marching and shouting slogans, whilst vehicles drive through the streets with loud-hailer systems playing Islamic music and people shouting Islamic slogans praising Allah.

I wonder what would have happened if say anyone would have appeared suddenly and CRITICISED the Prophet Muhammad....uh-oh, well, we know the answer to that question don't we?

The duration of the video is 4 minutes and 28 seconds....why would ANY Western nation want THIS?

Would most Americans be happy with these scenes, if so, why?

I URGE you ALL to watch the below video:

I'm directly relating to my OP now.

This is for those who say Muslims integrate in Western nations, that they live on the philosophy of when in Rome, do as the Romans.

First, a side point....in the video I posted:

Where are all the women? There are NO women in that video. Why is that do we wonder, hello Feminists? It's because in Islam women have no value except to do what the men tell them, women are THIRD CLASS citizens, essentially the only reason Islam even tolerates women is for baby-making purposes, as baby machines....if men could have babies with other men, then no doubt Islam would just completely do away with women altogether.

Now for those who say Muslims integrate in Western nations. In that video in the OP, those who actually watched it should have noticed three fundamental things:

I. The green flag of Islam being waved by a multitude of the men.

II. The chanting and shouting to each other was in Urdu.

III. The men are all wearing Islamic dress.

So IF the Muslims integrate, which we know the majority of them don't and have no intention of doing, but if they did integrate, what they should be displaying in that video is.

I. The Union Jack....aren't they supposed to be British now....they're NOT in Pakistan anymore are they?

II. The chanting and shouting to each other should be in English and NOT in Urdu....they're NOT in Pakistan anymore are they?

III. They should be wearing Western clothing and NOT Islamic clothing....they're NOT in Pakistan anymore are they?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

Exactly. The OP argument is the same argument use in the anti-gay movementt. LGBT are a threat to the UK and should not be allowed equal rights.

Absolutely ridiculous comparison, it's not the same "argument", sorry what IS that "argument" exactly?

If you want to discuss Islam's views on LGBT we can....am I allowed to post pictures though of gays being thrown off tall buildings and gays being hanged 20 feet in the air from industrial cranes?

Do you think Islam, being so anti-women's rights is going to be all happy clappy with LGBT people? Do you think Islam has one rule for Middle Eastern nations and a nice happy clappy rule for Western nations?

Yes, it appears that they do. Islam, like Christianity - varies in how it's interpreted and practiced around the world. Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism aren't exactly pro-women's rights either nor are they pro-LGBT (look at many African countries). How culture interacts with religion determines a lot about how people feel about these rights vs. "traditional" cultural norms.

The difference though is, that Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism who aren't exactly pro-women's rights or pro-LGBT rights don't reduce the former to Third Class citizens and don't advocate killing the latter group.

With regard to the African nations, that's a very complex issue on the above issues, especially LGBT, and that might be a whole new thread if we start discussing and elaborating on that topic.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

In Western nations they've set up their own Sharia courts, are you aware of that? They also practice FGM, even though it's illegal in Western nations.

 

[pillars]

"Islamification" is a bugaboo of weak minds. It's a boogeyman to stoke jingoistic fears.

Why should anyone be upset that 5,000 Muslims had a march in London?

Could it be because their culture beheads women for being raped? Because they throw gay people off tall buildings? Because they see men raping male children as simple "play"? Because they blow themselves and others up on a regular basis? Because women are forced to cover themselves or face being stoned to death??

They have a right to have their culture in THEIR lands. That's between them and their God.

Our lands....and OUR culture...are ours. They aren't interested in assimilation. They want to change OUR culture to THEIR culture.

And THEIR culture is evil, violent and oppressive. Sorry....it just is. Our culture is simply better than theirs.

Who's culture is that?

Do American Muslims call for beheading raped women? Do Canadian Muslims throw gay people off tall buildings? What are you talking about?

Our culture has it's issues with domestic violence, child abuse and molestation, human trafficking. Where our culture is superior is that it's people (Christians, Muslims, Jews, and more) value a system where human rights and freedoms are protected. Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran etc has no such protections.

I think he means Islamic culture.

But there isn't a single Islamic culture - it varies according the the parts of the world their followers live in.

Sorry, your nuanced responses don't square well with the black and white dichotomists. There are plenty of moderate and even liberal muslims. They are the majority. They just don't make headlines for beheading people.

The same is true for Christians. The majority of Christians aren't burning down planned parenthoods and shooting abortion doctors, but the ones who do make headlines.

It is a mistake to judge any faith by the isolated extremists.

In the march, there is zero indication that this was anything other than a group of people supporting their own views. That's what happens in pluralistic societies. To read a nefarious purpose into it starts with an individual's existing biases.

 

[pillars]

The difference though is, that Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism who aren't exactly pro-women's rights or pro-LGBT rights don't reduce the former to Third Class citizens and don't advocate killing the latter group.

They absolutely do. Germany is a lot more secular than the U.S., but fundamentalist Christian sects in the U.S. absolutely relegate women to third class citizen status.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Why would any Western nation want to allow itself to be subjected to Islamification?

Perhaps at some point that question will be asked to Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of Lahore....sorry, London.

This is to give an illustration what could happen to say any town or city in the United States, think about how scary this would look to a population of any American town, who's family has lived there for generations, with it's heritage and customs....to slowly and then suddenly be subjected to Islamification.

So this is from January 2015, but they have this Muslim March each year to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad, because they've slowly been able to take gradual control of the below towns.

Here's the news article, 5,000 Muslims.

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

"THOUSANDS of Muslim men marched through the streets of Blackburn and Nelson yesterday, to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet Muhammad.

Prayers, songs and colourful flags were a feature at both events, while women and children handed out cakes to those involved in the processions. Both events picked up more followers as they moved through the streets.

Snip -

Mohammed Sadiq, one of the organisers, said: “It’s a bit like Christians celebrating Christmas, it’s about bringing the community together and hopefully getting young people to engage as well. We had a full programme in the mosque afterwards with international scholars.”

Imam Shahed Tameez said: “We celebrate because, after God, Muhammad is the most important in the Muslim faith. When he came he changed everything through the law of Sharia. He forbade killing and any form of terrorism or oppression, and gave equal rights to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.”

About 5,000 people attended the event in Nelson, which started at the Ghausia Mosque. Several non-Muslims also took part including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson."

Here's the full article:

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

Here's the Cuckservative MP Andrew Stephenson, he's okay with his constituency becoming Islamic it seems:

Andrew Stephenson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why wouldn't he be, they have an Islamic Mayor also, Mayor of Pendle, Councillor Nawaz Ahmed....here they are together, surrounded by....well more Islamic people:

Now here's the video of the January 2015 Muslim March, featuring 5,000 Muslims marching and shouting slogans, whilst vehicles drive through the streets with loud-hailer systems playing Islamic music and people shouting Islamic slogans praising Allah.

I wonder what would have happened if say anyone would have appeared suddenly and CRITICISED the Prophet Muhammad....uh-oh, well, we know the answer to that question don't we?

The duration of the video is 4 minutes and 28 seconds....why would ANY Western nation want THIS?

Would most Americans be happy with these scenes, if so, why?

I URGE you ALL to watch the below video:

To answer your question "why would any western nation want this". I suspect any nation that adheres to the rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the freedom to peacefully assemble would want this. Any countries come to mind?

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why would any Western nation want to allow itself to be subjected to Islamification?

Perhaps at some point that question will be asked to Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of Lahore....sorry, London.

This is to give an illustration what could happen to say any town or city in the United States, think about how scary this would look to a population of any American town, who's family has lived there for generations, with it's heritage and customs....to slowly and then suddenly be subjected to Islamification.

So this is from January 2015, but they have this Muslim March each year to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad, because they've slowly been able to take gradual control of the below towns.

Here's the news article, 5,000 Muslims.

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

"THOUSANDS of Muslim men marched through the streets of Blackburn and Nelson yesterday, to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet Muhammad.

Prayers, songs and colourful flags were a feature at both events, while women and children handed out cakes to those involved in the processions. Both events picked up more followers as they moved through the streets.

Snip -

Mohammed Sadiq, one of the organisers, said: “It’s a bit like Christians celebrating Christmas, it’s about bringing the community together and hopefully getting young people to engage as well. We had a full programme in the mosque afterwards with international scholars.”

Imam Shahed Tameez said: “We celebrate because, after God, Muhammad is the most important in the Muslim faith. When he came he changed everything through the law of Sharia. He forbade killing and any form of terrorism or oppression, and gave equal rights to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.”

About 5,000 people attended the event in Nelson, which started at the Ghausia Mosque. Several non-Muslims also took part including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson."

Here's the full article:

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

Here's the Cuckservative MP Andrew Stephenson, he's okay with his constituency becoming Islamic it seems:

Andrew Stephenson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why wouldn't he be, they have an Islamic Mayor also, Mayor of Pendle, Councillor Nawaz Ahmed....here they are together, surrounded by....well more Islamic people:

Now here's the video of the January 2015 Muslim March, featuring 5,000 Muslims marching and shouting slogans, whilst vehicles drive through the streets with loud-hailer systems playing Islamic music and people shouting Islamic slogans praising Allah.

I wonder what would have happened if say anyone would have appeared suddenly and CRITICISED the Prophet Muhammad....uh-oh, well, we know the answer to that question don't we?

The duration of the video is 4 minutes and 28 seconds....why would ANY Western nation want THIS?

Would most Americans be happy with these scenes, if so, why?

I URGE you ALL to watch the below video:

To answer your question "why would any western nation want this". I suspect any nation that adheres to the rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the freedom to peacefully assemble would want this. Any countries come to mind?

Well I can tell you some countries that don't come to mind.

Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Pakistan, Iran, Qatar.

 

[BuckToothMoron]

Why would any Western nation want to allow itself to be subjected to Islamification?

Perhaps at some point that question will be asked to Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of Lahore....sorry, London.

This is to give an illustration what could happen to say any town or city in the United States, think about how scary this would look to a population of any American town, who's family has lived there for generations, with it's heritage and customs....to slowly and then suddenly be subjected to Islamification.

So this is from January 2015, but they have this Muslim March each year to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad, because they've slowly been able to take gradual control of the below towns.

Here's the news article, 5,000 Muslims.

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

"THOUSANDS of Muslim men marched through the streets of Blackburn and Nelson yesterday, to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet Muhammad.

Prayers, songs and colourful flags were a feature at both events, while women and children handed out cakes to those involved in the processions. Both events picked up more followers as they moved through the streets.

Snip -

Mohammed Sadiq, one of the organisers, said: “It’s a bit like Christians celebrating Christmas, it’s about bringing the community together and hopefully getting young people to engage as well. We had a full programme in the mosque afterwards with international scholars.”

Imam Shahed Tameez said: “We celebrate because, after God, Muhammad is the most important in the Muslim faith. When he came he changed everything through the law of Sharia. He forbade killing and any form of terrorism or oppression, and gave equal rights to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.”

About 5,000 people attended the event in Nelson, which started at the Ghausia Mosque. Several non-Muslims also took part including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson."

Here's the full article:

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

Here's the Cuckservative MP Andrew Stephenson, he's okay with his constituency becoming Islamic it seems:

Andrew Stephenson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why wouldn't he be, they have an Islamic Mayor also, Mayor of Pendle, Councillor Nawaz Ahmed....here they are together, surrounded by....well more Islamic people:

Now here's the video of the January 2015 Muslim March, featuring 5,000 Muslims marching and shouting slogans, whilst vehicles drive through the streets with loud-hailer systems playing Islamic music and people shouting Islamic slogans praising Allah.

I wonder what would have happened if say anyone would have appeared suddenly and CRITICISED the Prophet Muhammad....uh-oh, well, we know the answer to that question don't we?

The duration of the video is 4 minutes and 28 seconds....why would ANY Western nation want THIS?

Would most Americans be happy with these scenes, if so, why?

I URGE you ALL to watch the below video:

To answer your question "why would any western nation want this". I suspect any nation that adheres to the rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the freedom to peacefully assemble would want this. Any countries come to mind?

Well I can tell you some countries that don't come to mind.

Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iran, Qatar.

Right, and I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries.

 

[Coyote]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

In Western nations they've set up their own Sharia courts, are you aware of that? They also practice FGM, even though it's illegal in Western nations.

That's another claim that has been proven false: Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones

As is often the case, Emersons and Fox's corrections did not travel as far or fast to those who saw and believed the claims made during the Fox News segment, and his retraction did not address the claims he had made earlier about no-go zones in France. While large populations of Muslim residents inhabit cities and towns affected by the rumor (and may adhere to religious custom in large numbers), no areas of England, France, or the United States currently allow the laws of any religion to override their own laws. Areas designated as ZUS in France are not exempted from policing or French law, and are simply targeted for renewal initiatives. Likewise, residents of Dearborn and Hancock are not exempt from state or local law, regardless of the religion to which they adhere.
​

Those that practice FGM, while not large in numbers, are breaking the law. FGM is a cultural legacy, and you'll find that non-Muslims and Muslims alike practice it in those regions.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Why would any Western nation want to allow itself to be subjected to Islamification?

Perhaps at some point that question will be asked to Sadiq Khan, the new Mayor of Lahore....sorry, London.

This is to give an illustration what could happen to say any town or city in the United States, think about how scary this would look to a population of any American town, who's family has lived there for generations, with it's heritage and customs....to slowly and then suddenly be subjected to Islamification.

So this is from January 2015, but they have this Muslim March each year to celebrate the birthday of the Prophet Muhammad, because they've slowly been able to take gradual control of the below towns.

Here's the news article, 5,000 Muslims.

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

"THOUSANDS of Muslim men marched through the streets of Blackburn and Nelson yesterday, to celebrate the birthday of the holy prophet Muhammad.

Prayers, songs and colourful flags were a feature at both events, while women and children handed out cakes to those involved in the processions. Both events picked up more followers as they moved through the streets.

Snip -

Mohammed Sadiq, one of the organisers, said: “It’s a bit like Christians celebrating Christmas, it’s about bringing the community together and hopefully getting young people to engage as well. We had a full programme in the mosque afterwards with international scholars.”

Imam Shahed Tameez said: “We celebrate because, after God, Muhammad is the most important in the Muslim faith. When he came he changed everything through the law of Sharia. He forbade killing and any form of terrorism or oppression, and gave equal rights to Muslims and non-Muslims alike.”

About 5,000 people attended the event in Nelson, which started at the Ghausia Mosque. Several non-Muslims also took part including Pendle MP Andrew Stephenson."

Here's the full article:

Muslim birthday celebrations enjoyed by thousands in Blackburn and Nelson

Here's the Cuckservative MP Andrew Stephenson, he's okay with his constituency becoming Islamic it seems:

Andrew Stephenson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Why wouldn't he be, they have an Islamic Mayor also, Mayor of Pendle, Councillor Nawaz Ahmed....here they are together, surrounded by....well more Islamic people:

Now here's the video of the January 2015 Muslim March, featuring 5,000 Muslims marching and shouting slogans, whilst vehicles drive through the streets with loud-hailer systems playing Islamic music and people shouting Islamic slogans praising Allah.

I wonder what would have happened if say anyone would have appeared suddenly and CRITICISED the Prophet Muhammad....uh-oh, well, we know the answer to that question don't we?

The duration of the video is 4 minutes and 28 seconds....why would ANY Western nation want THIS?

Would most Americans be happy with these scenes, if so, why?

I URGE you ALL to watch the below video:

To answer your question "why would any western nation want this". I suspect any nation that adheres to the rights of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and the freedom to peacefully assemble would want this. Any countries come to mind?

Well I can tell you some countries that don't come to mind.

Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Iran, Qatar.

Right, and I wouldn't want to live in any of those countries.

Neither would I considering I'm a woman.

 

[Lucy Hamilton]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

In Western nations they've set up their own Sharia courts, are you aware of that? They also practice FGM, even though it's illegal in Western nations.

That's another claim that has been proven false: Sharia Law Muslim 'No-Go' Zones

As is often the case, Emersons and Fox's corrections did not travel as far or fast to those who saw and believed the claims made during the Fox News segment, and his retraction did not address the claims he had made earlier about no-go zones in France. While large populations of Muslim residents inhabit cities and towns affected by the rumor (and may adhere to religious custom in large numbers), no areas of England, France, or the United States currently allow the laws of any religion to override their own laws. Areas designated as ZUS in France are not exempted from policing or French law, and are simply targeted for renewal initiatives. Likewise, residents of Dearborn and Hancock are not exempt from state or local law, regardless of the religion to which they adhere.
​

Those that practice FGM, while not large in numbers, are breaking the law. FGM is a cultural legacy, not a religious one.

I can't comment regarding Dearborn and Hancock, I know the former is Michigan, I'm not sure about Hancock what State that's in.

I'll get back to you about this though and mention France, specifically parts of South-West France, I'll do this later, I've not got the time at this particular moment.

 

[Coyote]

I fear fascism. It's ugly head is in the OP.

Do you fear theocracy?

Not if its Islamic.

The Left's love-in with Islamism is exceptionally disturbing and pretty insane actually....I often wonder how many Leftists have already converted to Islam, they seem to be promoting Islam at the drop of a hat and the others just follow like sheep, even though others who haven't swallowed the Propaganda know that Islam isn't compatible with Western values.

I'll elaborate about this later.

I don't see anyone "promoting" Islam, and I doubt any Leftists would convert - Islam is a very conservative religion overall. What Leftists promote is equality and religious freedom.

"What Leftists promote is equality and religious freedom."

So explain to me then why nearly all the people and groups who are promoting Islam into The West are Leftists.

We know that Islam isn't big on equality and religious freedom.

Who on the left is promoting Islam, or in fact any religion?

Supporting religious freedom and rights is not promoting that religion.

 

[saveliberty]

The truth about Sharia courts in the UK

So...you think Muslim courts in England are using English Law?

 

[Coyote]

Islamification means equality goes out the window. Seems like there were gays killed and hung out as reminders of how that would be tolerated by ISIS. If it were simply a matter of celebrating a birth and religion it would be one thing. This comes with a whole set of anti western civilization aspects. Sorry Dhara, you are going to have to choose Islam or LBGT on this one, not both.

Islamification - by that definition is not occurring - it's all fear-mongering and xenophobia. You do not have to choose Islam or LBGT, you can chose both as long as they obey the laws of the land, which are based on western values. Christians have to do it, even if they don't like it

Exactly. The OP argument is the same argument use in the anti-gay movementt. LGBT are a threat to the UK and should not be allowed equal rights.

Absolutely ridiculous comparison, it's not the same "argument", sorry what IS that "argument" exactly?

If you want to discuss Islam's views on LGBT we can....am I allowed to post pictures though of gays being thrown off tall buildings and gays being hanged 20 feet in the air from industrial cranes?

Do you think Islam, being so anti-women's rights is going to be all happy clappy with LGBT people? Do you think Islam has one rule for Middle Eastern nations and a nice happy clappy rule for Western nations?

Yes, it appears that they do. Islam, like Christianity - varies in how it's interpreted and practiced around the world. Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism aren't exactly pro-women's rights either nor are they pro-LGBT (look at many African countries). How culture interacts with religion determines a lot about how people feel about these rights vs. "traditional" cultural norms.

The difference though is, that Conservative sects of both Christianity and Judaism who aren't exactly pro-women's rights or pro-LGBT rights don't reduce the former to Third Class citizens and don't advocate killing the latter group.

With regard to the African nations, that's a very complex issue on the above issues, especially LGBT, and that might be a whole new thread if we start discussing and elaborating on that topic.

Yes they do. Women are most certainly third class citizens with fewer rights and gays are despised. Uganda attempted to instil a death penalty but finally made it life in prison when there was such an international uproar it affected their aid. It sucks to be a woman in conservative religious sects.

 

[Yousaidwhat]

Thanks Dale,

My point is this. Since the UK allows Muslims to live in it's borders they ought to be treated the same as any other citizens.

They are already there. What's your solution?

Dhara

Demand they follow the laws of the country NOT islam.

They do follow the law like every other citizen..

The Islamophobes want ALL Muslims out of America. Then they won't be satisfied and it will be the Jews, the Gays, the Buddhists.

Not so true. The islamophobes you refer to are far and few between. The majority do not want all Muslims out of the US, but do expect respect and return that respect in kind. There are concerns of radical teachings and the possibility of attacks from extremists.

The irony here, is they have that and have always had that. The American Muslim community has been no different than any other religious community in that respect.

There is at least 1 mosque under the watchful eye of the authorities.

I am in an area with many Muslims within the community. In close proximity are the Jewish communities as well as the Hispanic community and the Asian community. These communities tend to self segregate.

As long as our Muslim communities understand , as well as the other communities understand that we have a Constitution and laws, that they must adhere to and that their laws and Sharia law is not the dominant law, there have not been, nor will there be complications.

That's the key, as well as the crux of the matter. The "other communities". Most arguments exclude that bit and focus on Islam only. Even in this sentence - it's about "Sharia" (most people who talk about it don't really know what it is) - instead of Biblical Law or Jewish Law - all of which have a role to play in communities who choose to follow their religious principles in certain civil matters. But only Islam is singled out with special legislation to inact "anti-Sharia" laws.

What we do expect is that those coming here are vetted first. Before they hit the shores. Accusations, like racism and islamophobia only complicate the situation. IMHO, that is where the problem starts.

Everyone should be vetted.

There are going to be questions and concerns. To silence those who ask these questions and express these concerns, or to label them as bigots and racists will only complicate the coexistence and further erode any trust and confidence.

To then accuse these same people of not being satisfied and that Jews, or homosexuals or Buddhist
will be next is ludicrous. You have already silenced debate and condemned and criticized those with these valid questions and concerns.

Until the accusations are stopped and subject is discussed, rationally, then you are not going anywhere with this subject.

When you single out one entire religious group for different treatment then those concerns become valid.

Thank you for your input.

Under the circumstances, my replies and views on this subject are carefully crafted, or sanitized.