Islam forbids

[Liability]

They're not butt sniffing, they're carpet kissing, as in: Mohammed was a carpet kisser.

Nope. In a room full of people "kissing" carpets, with those many behinds stuck up in the air, the guys in line behind the first carpet kisser are getting a heavy whiff of butt.

What do you expect of a religion premised on the lunatic musing of a rabid bitch like Mohammud the Mutt? Lots of dogs sniff butt.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Mr. Fitnah

The reason no one is responding to your posts.

Is because it is not clear as to what you are saying or what exactly your point is?

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to proves unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent, Thanks for reading my post.

What you are failing to realize is that Muslims believe that anyone who doesn't put his nose in the dirt and his ass in the air 5 times a day is guilty of being an infidel therefore worthy of being killed.

I have proven that to the extent anything can be proven on earth , this thread is a record of that proof.

 

[JoLouis]

Islam isn't even a real religion, it's a collection of pedophiles and other sexual deviants who got together to legalize their perversions.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent

 

[Hister]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent

Like who?

 

[hipeter924]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people", I'm asking for some one to prove unequivocally using Islamic scripture that none muslims are innocent

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-o4l7Mgj5s&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Islam - Mandates Violence Against Unbeliever‬‎[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV4nemgNNK4&feature=related]YouTube - ‪Islam - Mandates Violence Against Unbelievers (part 2)‬‎[/ame]

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

You want me to quote Qur'anic scripture saying that non-Muslims are innocent merely by virtue of their being non-Islamic?

Does that not seem like an illogical thing for the Qur'an to say, Mr. al-Kafir?

One would assume that the Quran and

other Islamic scripture would be the source of Islamic thought.
Since many muslims like to say Islam forbids the killing of innocent people ,
Islam denounces terrorism.com
It is reasonable to try to determine who exactly they are speaking of These innocent people.

Presumably it refers to killing any person who hasn't committed murder or some similarly heinous crime, as mentioned by

Moses (AS) in 18:74. The definition of innocent could be extended further to encompass all people who have not initiated

hostilities. This is based on the message of non-aggression, holding true to pacts, and purely defensive retaliation

described in 2:190, 2:194, 9:1, 9:4, 9:7, 26:227, 42:39, 42:41, and elsewhere. Islam does not permit aggression or the

initiation of hostilities in general.

2:190. And fight in the Way of Allâh[] those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allâh likes not the transgressors. [This Verse is the first one that was revealed in connection with Jihâd, but it was supplemented by another (V.9:36)].

2:191. And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah[] is worse than killing. And fight not with them at Al-Masjid-al-Harâm (the sanctuary at Makkah),[] unless they (first) fight you there. But if they attack you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

2:192. But if they cease, then Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

2:193. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be
no transgression except
no transgression except
no transgression except
against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc

Shirk is worse than Killing

Since Jihad involves killing and shedding the blood of men, Allah indicated that these men are committing disbelief in

Allah, associating with Him (in the worship) and hindering from His path, and this is a much greater evil and more disastrous than killing. Abu Malik commented about what Allah said:


(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) Meaning what you (disbelievers) are committing is much worse than killing.'' Abu

Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Sa`id bin Jubayr, `Ikrimah, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ad-Dahhak and Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that what Allah

said:

(And Al-Fitnah is worse than killing.) "Shirk (polytheism) is worse than killing.''
Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Come on, schmendrick. We know you like him in the same way white folks liked docile, subservient Uncle Tom.

Tell me what is wrong with what Zuhdi said.

He is a perfect example of what America is all about.

Token minorities abandoning their principles so that they can kowtow to the establishment? I don't know if that's what America is all about, but there's been a fair amount of that type of grovelling among American "Muslims" recently.

What's wrong with what he says? I'll have a hard time deciding where to start. There's his support for Israeli aggression, his condemnation of Muslims that fight in defense of their oppressed brothers and sisters, his identification with a long-defunct group of thuggish heretics called the Mu'tazilah, his constant insistence that Muslims should abandon Shari'ah and adopt Western values and systems of government...

Sometimes I wonder why these people bother calling themselves Muslims.

The vast majority of muslims in the world see your ideas as heretical and will bring you to heel when the time comes.

My non-Mu'tazili friends (essentially all of my Muslim friends) don't have a problem with my beliefs. They are capable of disagreeing with me respectfully, as my non-Muslim friends are.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1374719-post416.html

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Now Imam Kalam backs away from there is no such thing as internal abrogation his entire defense of Islam was based on that

Abrogation is not as complicated as you would like to think Ibn Hazm the author of an-Nasikh wal-Mansukh,states that there are 114 verses that speak of tolerance in early Islam, but all were abrogated by one verse, "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them" (Q. 9:5)

Ibn Hazm jurist and theologian.

Addressed by as-Suyuti, who demonstrated that no more than 21 ayat are nasikh and mansukh; and subsequently by Shah Waliullah, who posited that as-Suyuti's 21 could be reduced to 5.

Not all muslims agree with Suyuti.
Nor are they required to.

"5" a number you insisted was "0"

Your used to say that you could not understand how any true muslim could believe in the concept of internal abrogation.

Now you argue against that which you insisted was true.
Centuries of scholarship ?
Perhaps you should have the intellectual honesty to keep your opinion to yourself until you know what it is you are talking about.
Tafsir Ayet of the sword

(and besiege them, and lie in wait for them in each and every ambush), do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam,

M. Khan the translator of Sahih al-Bukhari in his opening remarks makes it clear the 2:256 is abrogated by 9:5.

"Allah revealed in Sura Bara'at (Repentance, IX) the order to discard (all) obligations (covenants, etc), and commanded the Muslims to fight against all the Pagans as well as against the people of the Scriptures (Jews and Christians) if they do not embrace Islam, till they pay the Jizia (a tax levied on the Jews and Christians) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued (as it is revealed in 9:29). So the Muslims were not permitted to abandon "the fighting" against them (Pagans, Jews and Christians) and to reconcile with them and to suspend hostilities against them for an unlimited period while they are strong and have the ability to fight against them. So at first "the fighting" was forbidden, then it was permitted, and after that it was made obligatory."

More conformation 2:256 was abrogated at the time of Mohammads life
Something centuries of scholarship can do nothing about.

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah." Narrated Maimun ibn Siyah that he asked Anas bin Malik, "O Abu Hamza! What makes the life and property of a person sacred?" He replied, "Whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah', faces our Qibla during the prayers, prays like us and eats our slaughtered animal, then he is a Muslim, and has got the same rights and obligations as other Muslims have."

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove none muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

As the world turns

'Umdat as-Salik wa 'Uddat an-Nasik

Of course you'd pull quotes from a book on Shafi'i jurisprudence and act as if all Muslims were bound by them, you dishonest moron.

Ok, I actually read some of Marc's posts for a change. Notice how the Jew ignores his religion's commandment to use the mouth for circumcisions.

The full quote from 'Umdat as-Salik ("Reliance of the Traveler", a legal manual used by the Shafi'i school):

"Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada, signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs)..."​

And he goes on to quote a hadith saying as much.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/2786398-post580.html
http://www.usmessageboard.com/1426494-post37.html

 

[Kalam]

Who said I believe in everything written in RotT? Somebody posted an inaccurate quote and I corrected them. In your dimunitive brain, I'm sure that is considered tantamount to belief in something.

Running out of straws to grasp at?

 

[Hister]

Who said I believe in everything written in RotT? Somebody posted an inaccurate quote and I corrected them. In your dimunitive brain, I'm sure that is considered tantamount to belief in something.

Running out of straws to grasp at?

Islam forbids kalam to say anything intelligent.

 

[Colin]

Who said I believe in everything written in RotT? Somebody posted an inaccurate quote and I corrected them. In your dimunitive brain, I'm sure that is considered tantamount to belief in something.

Running out of straws to grasp at?

Islam forbids kalam to say anything intelligent.

I wonder who forbids Hister to say anything intelligent?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove none muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

 

[logical4u]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove none muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Are you saying the "religion of peace" is being deceptive by telling non-believers they will not kill innocents; while the whole time the muslims are laughing into their sleeves because they believe "non-believers" are sinners (therefore, not innocent)? Surely, the faithful would have courage to speak truthfully and not perpetuate such deception.

 

[Hister]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove none muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Akmed, where does it say that they're guilty?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Many muslims like to say "Islam forbids the killing of innocent people"
Please prove none muslims are innocent according to Islamic scripture.

Are you saying the "religion of peace" is being deceptive by telling non-believers they will not kill innocents; while the whole time the muslims are laughing into their sleeves because they believe "non-believers" are sinners (therefore, not innocent)? Surely, the faithful would have courage to speak truthfully and not perpetuate such deception.

Laughing all day long.
Muslims cant get away with their plans if they dont lie .

If a praiseworthy aim is attainable through both telling the truth and lying, it is unlawful to accomplish through lying because there is no need for it.
“’When it is possible to achieve such an aim by lying but not telling the truth, it is permissible to lie if the goal is permissible, and it is obligatory to lie if the goal is obligatory.
Umdat as-Salik Pg. 745

5:32.For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our messengers came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran - 5 / Shakir

Meaning of Mischief

In his Tafsir, As-Suddi said that Ibn `Abbas and Ibn Mas`ud commented,

[وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ قَالُواْ إِنَّمَا نَحْنُ مُصْلِحُونَ ]

(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.'') "They are the hypocrites. As for,

[لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ]

("Do not make mischief on the earth''), that is disbelief and acts of disobedience.'' Abu Ja`far said that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas said that Abu Al-`Aliyah said that Allah's statement,

[وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ لاَ تُفْسِدُواْ فِى الأَرْضِ]

(And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,''), means, "Do not commit acts of disobedience on the earth. Their mischief is disobeying Allah, because whoever disobeys Allah on the earth, or commands that Allah be disobeyed, he has committed mischief on the earth. Peace on both the earth and in the heavens is ensured (and earned) through obedience (to Allah).'' Ar-Rabi` bin Anas and Qatadah said similarly.

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

And finally
Verily, Allah loves the doers of good.) Therefore, forgive those who err against you. Qatadah said that this Ayah was abrogated with Allah's statement,

[قَـتِلُواْ الَّذِينَ لاَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَلاَ بِالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ]

(Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day).


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=5&tid=13518

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do.

[ 2:193.. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Maybe sunni will take another run at it.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Madeline -

I don't need instructions.
I don't need to talk to an imam or a scholar.
The opinions I post come from imam's and scholars, they are not my opinions.

If you have a "spritual leader" whose opinion on matters of Islam you trust have them come here an make a case that non muslims are innocent.

This is the thread for them to bring their proof if they have it.
http://www.usmessageboard.com/religion-and-ethics/81748-islam-forbids.html